Building an OSX compatible workstation

[deffie]

Hi all,
i'm going to build a new home workstation for audio recording, video editing and general usage; it is going to run OSX86 too (http://www.osx86project.org), so i'm a bit limited on the motherboard.

Some applications it will run: Photoshop CS3, Final cut pro, Garageband, Logic pro, Autocad, Inventor, Vero Visi, Archicad, Adobe Premiere, Counter Strike Source, Call of Duty 2.

I still dont have an idea on the CPU, as you can see by some components i'm looking for a silent PC..and here comes the TDP:

Q6600 105W
E8400 65W
Q9300 95W
Q9450 95W

I know that the Q6600 is from the old generation, that i will get better performance with non-smp capable applications with higher clock (like most games, but i do not plan to go over CSS or COD2), i dont really know the difference in terms of cooling between 65W and 95W, i wonder if it is possible to work _without_ a fan on the CPU (only the 120 ultra ex and the p182 airflow), or how much frequently a cpu fan will power on with 65W or 95W.

I know that quad cores will help me in renderings; i dont exactly know how much Q9450 differs from Q9300 in terms of performance.

I'm missing a good power supply; please consider the P182 design.

This is the the shopping cart:

Hardware:
Geforce 8600 Fanless http://www.xfxforce.com/web/product/lis ... Id=1743443
Mobo GA-P35-DS3P http://tw.giga-byte.com/Products/Mother ... uctID=2533

Chassis and accessories:
Antec P182 http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=81820
Thermalright 120 Ultra http://www.thermalright.com/new_a_page/ ... VzaWFzdA==
Fans Scythe S-FLEX 1200 or 1600 rpm http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/acc/0 ... etail.html
Scythe Kaze Master rheobus http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/acc/0 ... etail.html


Any hint is appreciated

There is another insane idea: seen this silentpcreview DIY http://www.silentpcreview.com/article114-page1.html i'm thinking to do a similar thing with the system just listed before, in the P182 the path from the cpu and the top of the case is open and short, one can remove the fan chamber and install a bounce of Heatpipes going from the top of the CPU to the top of the case, where they will go into a _huge_ copper cooler big as the case top, wondering if it will be able to be fanless and decent. I have access to CNCs and many other machining tools; just tell me how weird it sounds

Thank you all, keep up the good work,

Giacomo.

[LBadvance]

I'm pretty sure running macosx on non-mac hardware is illegal.

[dougz]

I'm pretty sure running macosx on non-mac hardware is illegal.

Yes, it violates the Apple EULA, but the legal implications are untested --

There are no court rulings that have occurred in the United States that have established precedent on the legality of restricting software to only specific hardware. It is possible that clauses of the EULA are not binding on legally purchased software in private use, or are against anti-competition or monopoly laws. A similar situation is illustrated by the iPhone's restriction to AT&T's network and the legally permitted endeavors of hackers to modify the handsets for use on other networks, and to distribute or sell their software tools for doing so without fear of prosecution. Other countries may have different laws or precedents. The legal argument harks back to Compaq's reverse engineering of the IBM XT BIOS to be able to run MS DOS, which opened up the IBM x86 platform to 3rd party hardware manufacturers to make "IBM compatible" machines. The legality & commercialization of IBM clones was largely driven by Microsoft's option to 3rd party software licensing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSx86

More --

Is this site illegal under the DMCA?

According to Wikipedia, "The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) is a controversial United States copyright law. The act criminalizes production and dissemination of technology that can circumvent measures taken to protect copyright, not merely infringement of copyright itself, and heightens the penalties for copyright infringement on the Internet."

Our site is fully compliant with the DMCA. This site intends only to provide a forum for those interested in running OS X on Intel hardware. Anyone engaged in an active DMCA violation will be banned. For more information, review our Disclaimer here.

If you are either a lawyer or an Apple representative and have any concerns, feel free to contact us regarding any changes you feel necessary.

But aren't you trying to "circumvent measures taken to protect copyright?"

Absolutely not. This site simply hosts information about the TPM. We do not sanction the use of this information for anything other than educational purposes. Our intent is to learn more about the TPM - not "crack" it.

http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index ... he_DMCA.3F

Apple makes some very nice hardware, but if you don't want an all-in-one (iMac), laptop or Mac Mini you better be very, very rich. Mac Pros are not affordable ($US2799++) for many/most home users.

I'd be more sympathetic with Apple's EULA if they offered a wider variety of hardware. They don't, so people (even Mac owners) build DIY hackintoshes. http://wildwobby.com/hardware/build-a-mac-for-350/

[deffie]

Sorry for taking in account OSX, it is intended for testing purposes only, as you can see most of the software is not for OSX, i'm a mac owner from many years and i'm writing from a Macbook, there are CAD/CAM applications which need more power than my Macbook and they do not run on OSX; thats why i'm building this PC.

We are here talking of energy saving, cooling and silencing; my post contains many questions in this sense, i've been wrong making a post which doesnt clear that the questions are about energy saving, cooling and silencing.

Thank you,
Giacomo.

[bonestonne]

I'm not representing anyone, and I'm definitely seconding the post about it not being legal, and because of that, i'd suggest you read this thread on another forum.

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php? ... ntry546486

please don't take that out of context, as it has everything to do with this. As you can see, for the price he had payed for an OS X compatible computer (legitimately) he could have bought a Mac Pro.

[dougz]

I'm not representing anyone, and I'm definitely seconding the post about it not being legal, and because of that, i'd suggest you read this thread on another forum.

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php? ... ntry546486

please don't take that out of context, as it has everything to do with this. As you can see, for the price he had payed for an OS X compatible computer (legitimately) he could have bought a Mac Pro.

I didn't see anything in the article about legalities, but didn't read all 18 pages. Please cite specific sources. (Again, building a hackintosh certainly violates EULA, but legality is not a settled issue.)

If someone wants a Mac Pro. they should buy a Mac Pro. That a person did a stupic DIY hackintosh Mac Pro does not invalidate the whole concept. Check out the article cited in my previous post ($US 350 hackintosh) or price out the hardware on the various OSX86 compatibility lists.

You can certainly beat Apple prices, if you want. But that's not the real reason to build a hackintosh, IMO. Apple designs are great, but they only address a small subset of the hardware configurations that are available in the PC world (Windows/Linux). Apple's stance is like Henry Ford's "any color, as long as its black." Hence, hackintoshes.

If Apple offered more hardware choices, far fewer hackintoshes would be built. Too much work for too little return.

[bonestonne]

i posted that article because that person built a Mac Pro, not a Hackintosh.

all prices are listed for it, and exactly how it was done. if you read carefully.

thats why i said don't take it out of context. using Development hardware, he was able to make it all happen.

[plympton]

.. and I use it very often. It is finally stable, but the road getting there was long and hard. Be prepared for what you are about to embark on - as another poster said, Apple makes hardware for a sub-segment of the market, and my needs weren't addressed by them.

iMac's are too limited: I need a PCI slot (Slide Scanner in XP), a good display (the 20" iMac's displays are aweful), and the iMac's graphcs cards are woefully underpowered (2600 *PRO*?).

Mac Pro's are too over the top (I had a Dual G5 tower), too expensive, and most importantly, too power consumptive (200-400 watts at idle for some models!). Amazingly (or not), the Mac Pro's graphics card choices are rather thin, too, especially if you want low-power.

So, I built my own, runs Leopard 10.5.2, uses a Radeon 3850, sleeps fine, and idles at about 100 watts. And that's running at 2.9 GHz.

The best advice (after saying "don't do it - it was way too much work for what it was"), get the Kalyway distro, use the Netkas.org update method, and choose your motherboard & graphics card wisely. nVidia is more supported, but the 3870 is well supported, too, now. Also, to avoid boot problems, use 1 HD for Mac, and 1 HD for PC, and use the BIOS to switch which one to boot from.

Don't do it unless you REALLY want a new hobby (and not a new machine to actually do work on), or the Mac part is just for curiousity. Also, use the InsanelyMac forums (not these) and you should get a sympathetic ear.

-Dan

[bonestonne]

i don't want to act like i'm in any position of power, but it is in my personal opinion that this thread should be locked because i can see it becoming an EULA argument, and it is not legal regardless of how you put it.

running OS X on non-apple hardware is a breach of the Apple EULA, plain and simple.

i hope you can all understand that much of it.

[dougz]

i don't want to act like i'm in any position of power, but it is in my personal opinion that this thread should be locked because i can see it becoming an EULA argument, and it is not legal regardless of how you put it.

running OS X on non-apple hardware is a breach of the Apple EULA, plain and simple.<snip>

We agree that it violates the EULA, as I've said in two previous posts. I'd welcome some evidence that it is illegal, as I've never seen any.

As to locking this forum, what's the point? The building of hackintoshes is public knowledge in many Internet forums.

.. and I use it very often. It is finally stable, but the road getting there was long and hard. Be prepared for what you are about to embark on - as another poster said, Apple makes hardware for a sub-segment of the market, and my needs weren't addressed by them.

iMac's are too limited: I need a PCI slot (Slide Scanner in XP), a good display (the 20" iMac's displays are aweful), and the iMac's graphcs cards are woefully underpowered (2600 *PRO*?).

Mac Pro's are too over the top (I had a Dual G5 tower), too expensive, and most importantly, too power consumptive (200-400 watts at idle for some models!). Amazingly (or not), the Mac Pro's graphics card choices are rather thin, too, especially if you want low-power.

So, I built my own, runs Leopard 10.5.2, uses a Radeon 3850, sleeps fine, and idles at about 100 watts. And that's running at 2.9 GHz.

The best advice (after saying "don't do it - it was way too much work for what it was"), get the Kalyway distro, use the Netkas.org update method, and choose your motherboard & graphics card wisely. nVidia is more supported, but the 3870 is well supported, too, now. Also, to avoid boot problems, use 1 HD for Mac, and 1 HD for PC, and use the BIOS to switch which one to boot from.

Don't do it unless you REALLY want a new hobby (and not a new machine to actually do work on), or the Mac part is just for curiousity. Also, use the InsanelyMac forums (not these) and you should get a sympathetic ear.

-Dan

Very well said, both as to the holes in the Apple Macintosh market model and the downsides to building a hackintosh. It really is a shame that Apple doesn't try to grow their market share by introducing products that meet more people's needs. For all his brilliance, Jobs has some real blind spots.

I'd buy a Mac mini/mid tower with modest exapnadability and desktop (not notebook) components, were one offered. I don't expect one to be sold. Doesn't fit their design concepts; too plebian. If the iMac won't do you, Mac fanboy, pony up for the Mac Pro. Right...

The existence of the hackintosh user community, given how painful it is to build a hackintosh, is a testament to unfulfilled mrket demands. Fascinating to see Apple leave all that money "on the table."

[bonestonne]

However installing OS X on a non-Mac could also require other transgressions of actual laws like the DMCA, which could be a criminal offense as opposed to a civil one like breach of contract.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA

Due to consultation with the EFF, we believe it prudent to remove any threads and/or posts that pertain to the downloading of leaked versions of Leopard.

As you all know, we don't support the sharing of copyrighted materials - we simply open this forum for you to talk about the things you like. When those things interfere with Apple's intellectual property, however, we have to act.

What does this mean? Well, it means that for the time being, everyone is free to discuss what they want about Leopard. Due to the recent court rulings regarding ThinkSecret et al, we believe that Apple will allow discussion of upcoming features by those not bound by a non-disclosure agreement.

The bottomline is this: we want to keep this forum a friendly and free place for you to discuss the things that matter to you the most. In order for us to do this, we have to take the common sense measures to protect you and ourselves.

Thanks for your understanding in this matter.

If you'd like to dispute ThinkSecret or the DMCA go to court.

its simply not for here.

[Blue_Sky]

The DCMA? deffie's location says "Siena, Tuscany, Italy". I'm pretty sure that isn't inside the US.
What is and isn't legal varies so much country to country that, even if it seems to be contrary to the EULA, you are going to have to have an Italian lawyer go over the Italian version of said EULA.

The fact that there have so far been no cases regarding this issue, looks like an issue of shaky legality to me (... I'm not a lawyer, though I do enjoy researching interesting law questions like this). If anyone in the States figured that it may not hold up there, things are much less likely to hold up in the EU.

No one blinks an eye when someone builds a torrent box around here, so why are we up in arms now?

deffie, I'm sorry your question turned out this way. You may want to pose a similar question on another site. Anandtech might be able to help you.
I also suggest that you wait a bit and ask the question again, minus any controversial bits. There are lots of people that are willing to help you out - I just think that more arguing is going to occur if I answer your questions now.

[lm]

bonestonne

Why do you care so much?

I don't have anything to do with Macs or OS X, I just read the thread, but it makes me wonder what made you so upset about it.

Besides, if something MIGHT be illegal in the USA, it does not mean that it is illegal outside USA.

[Yorixz]

It's a shame to see your neatly written topic turned into nothing here, so I figured I could just login and post again after a long time of inactivity here .

I think that you could consider picking the Q9-series if you don't mind spending the 40 euro extra (at least that's the price difference here...) as the Penryn series are often showing better performance than the Conroe ones at the same frequencies.
If you're still willing to spend the extra money on your CPU the Q9450 is a really great candidate given it's 2*6MB cache which should surely give a performance gain, which could be worth the investment if you're either impatient or busy (Sadly I haven't found any good performance comparison so far on the web so I can't back this with facts)

The P182 is definitely a good choice indeed, I'm the somewhat proud owner of it's younger brother the P180, which has some flaws, but those've been mostly resolved in the new version. I'm using a Seasonic S12-430 with it myself, it's a tight fit, but most computer stores also have extender cables available for your 4-pin 12V connector and the 24-pin connector, which would help fit in every PSU.
As I'm not entirely up to date anymore with the SPCR reviews anymore I'm not sure if the S12-series are still one of the best options available as there are various new series available, but I'm still more than happy with mine. And in case you're wondering, I suppose a 430W model would suit your PC good as well, considering the midrange videocard.

On the subject of your videocard, I'd consider looking around a bit further to see if there are other brands offering passive 8600-series cards as well as the XFX Fatality product line tends to have higher prices and only a tiny bit of extra performance over their competitors.

And the final subject of my long post; your CPU cooling. I'm not exactly sure how good 'passive' cooling with a Thermalright 120 would work as that one is rather flat, while the fans of the P182 seem to take more advantage of tower coolers as they easily suck air through. You state that you've got various tools available though, so if you'd be able to mod the cooler, or if you'd perhaps build an airduct from the back vent to your CPU cooler, forcing it to suck air through your cooler first, you'd be 'near passive' I guess.

Hopefully I've helped you some, if you managed to read it all, that is

[deffie]

The baby has born:

http://www.deffie.it/deffie.it/Hackintosh.html

Thank you for your help !

Cya