Hi folks
I've been lurking and looking for a while and decided it's time to take the plunge. My workhorse PC is long overdue replacement and since I suffer from tinnitus - I think the replacement should be as quiet as possible.
Apart from general office/browsing work - it should handle 3D CAD with occasional renders - (OpenGL/Direct3D support). XP preferred. 2 screens.
Current kit list:
Case: Antec Solo
PSU: Seasonic 330W
Cooler: Ninja Mini
Disk: Samsung or WD 300 to 500G
MLB: Asus or Gigabyte
RAM: 2 or 4Gb 800 DDR2 Crucial/Corsair/ Others?
DVD: reuse LITE-ON
It's been a while since I built a PC and the choice is overwhelming - so please can you advise on a suitable MLB/CPU/GPU combinations?
Many thanks
C.T.
Occasional CAD - MLB/CPU/GPU advice
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
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Captain Tuba
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:12 pm
- Location: UK
The Ninja Mini is a good choice - however with a larger case you can fit a larger heatsink with a larger fan on the CPU. With a larger fan you can run it at lower speeds which means a quieter computing experience.
I do think I recall seeing someone with a Solo using a full sized Ninja... Couldn't find it but this shot leads me to believe that a large low speed HS should fit just fine:
viewtopic.php?t=47404
It's an Antec Sonata which is the same case as the Solo using a Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme.
To be clear ont he video, you are "rendering" and not actually playing games correct? The best rendering graphics are the Nvidia Quadro series cards. These are based on the same chipsets and pcb's as the Nvidia GeFroce cards so fitting a quieter aftermarket cooler should not be too difficult - the main difference is how the chipsets are programmed. That being said I have no practical experience with rendering platforms or the Quadro chips so take what I say with a grain of salt.
I do think I recall seeing someone with a Solo using a full sized Ninja... Couldn't find it but this shot leads me to believe that a large low speed HS should fit just fine:
viewtopic.php?t=47404
It's an Antec Sonata which is the same case as the Solo using a Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme.
To be clear ont he video, you are "rendering" and not actually playing games correct? The best rendering graphics are the Nvidia Quadro series cards. These are based on the same chipsets and pcb's as the Nvidia GeFroce cards so fitting a quieter aftermarket cooler should not be too difficult - the main difference is how the chipsets are programmed. That being said I have no practical experience with rendering platforms or the Quadro chips so take what I say with a grain of salt.
Quadro and Fire GL are mostly based on their mainstream counterparts, the main difference being the drivers. They can make a big difference in open gl applications but they come at a premium. Sometimes it`s possible to run the proffesional drivers by flashing the bios but I don`t know to which extent it`s feasable today.
Which programs will you be running? Will you be working on complex models? Many CAD programs run fine on mainstream cards.
Which programs will you be running? Will you be working on complex models? Many CAD programs run fine on mainstream cards.
I'm basing this on light use of some AutoCAD software.
If you're not going to be doing 3D renderings much, don't worry about video card power. For the wireframe views, anything will do fine. If you will be doing real renderings a decent bit, well, look into the Quadros and such, and especially see if there are any current gaming cards that can be made into Quadro cards via software (like what is included with Rivatuner). Sadly, I can't point you to exactly how much worse a gaming card will be when it comes down to it.
When making your choice, consider cooling. There are several silent video cards on the market with good gaming performance. If your CAD performance suffers, but they do the job, is that worth it? If you can get 1/3 the performance of the real card card, but no fans and silent toroids, wouldn't that be worth it?
Not an easy choice. I'd suggest asking at Guru3D about it, as they will have pretty knowledgeable folks, and less knowledgeable folks that could at least help lead you in the right direction. You may find that the gaming cards are within 10-20%, in which case it becomes a no-brainer: get a silent gamer card, or mod a non-silent one, and save yourself some money.
Now, then...
Get 4GB if RAM for a 32-bit system. End if story.
8GB for a 64-bit (maxing out common mobos, and probably offering more than you'll need).
Basically, you want all the RAM you can get. CPU power is nice, but RAM is a short-term bottleneck that can be hard to keep up with (that is, you may do something, and it will eat up everything and you'll start paging...and then it will get done and you'll be back to having a gig or more free).
RAM choice: Get any old DDR2-800 4GB kits, running 5-5-5-15 at 1.8V or lower on any of the stats, stock, with lots of good ratings at Newegg.
Board choice: IMO, Gigabyte (any P35 DS3). Gigabyte and Abit still seem to just have quality boards, that nowadays fit silent user needs, overclocker needs, and reliable workstation user needs. With Intel finally getting a chipset out on time, without many bugs to work around, we've gotten several excellent boards to choose from, and a chipset that has good, balanced features, and is rock solid.
If you're not going to be doing 3D renderings much, don't worry about video card power. For the wireframe views, anything will do fine. If you will be doing real renderings a decent bit, well, look into the Quadros and such, and especially see if there are any current gaming cards that can be made into Quadro cards via software (like what is included with Rivatuner). Sadly, I can't point you to exactly how much worse a gaming card will be when it comes down to it.
When making your choice, consider cooling. There are several silent video cards on the market with good gaming performance. If your CAD performance suffers, but they do the job, is that worth it? If you can get 1/3 the performance of the real card card, but no fans and silent toroids, wouldn't that be worth it?
Not an easy choice. I'd suggest asking at Guru3D about it, as they will have pretty knowledgeable folks, and less knowledgeable folks that could at least help lead you in the right direction. You may find that the gaming cards are within 10-20%, in which case it becomes a no-brainer: get a silent gamer card, or mod a non-silent one, and save yourself some money.
Now, then...
Get 4GB if RAM for a 32-bit system. End if story.
8GB for a 64-bit (maxing out common mobos, and probably offering more than you'll need).
Basically, you want all the RAM you can get. CPU power is nice, but RAM is a short-term bottleneck that can be hard to keep up with (that is, you may do something, and it will eat up everything and you'll start paging...and then it will get done and you'll be back to having a gig or more free).
RAM choice: Get any old DDR2-800 4GB kits, running 5-5-5-15 at 1.8V or lower on any of the stats, stock, with lots of good ratings at Newegg.
Board choice: IMO, Gigabyte (any P35 DS3). Gigabyte and Abit still seem to just have quality boards, that nowadays fit silent user needs, overclocker needs, and reliable workstation user needs. With Intel finally getting a chipset out on time, without many bugs to work around, we've gotten several excellent boards to choose from, and a chipset that has good, balanced features, and is rock solid.
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Captain Tuba
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:12 pm
- Location: UK
Sketchup for preparation/visualisation - the AutoCad for final prep of drawings.Which programs will you be running?
3D houses complete with interiors.Will you be working on complex models?
My current system struggles when manipulating complex images.
I want to animate fly-thrus and work on some rendered stills.
Yes - rendering 3D CAD images (not games). If you like architecture have at look at http://www.pushpullbar.com/you are "rendering" and not actually playing games correct?
I'll take a look - thanksI'd suggest asking at Guru3D
I was heading in this direction - but not come to a conclusion yet... get a silent gamer card
with a larger case you can fit a larger heatsink with a larger fan on the CPU ....
I read on the forum that the mini ninja has wider spaced fins and could be use with the case fan. I'd like to keep the case size compact. When I've got this project complete - I'd like to do another that's smaller and lower watts.
Do I need a fan speed controller?
Thanks for the advice
Cheers
C.T.
Re: Occasional CAD - MLB/CPU/GPU advice
I would revisit the OS preference.Captain Tuba wrote: XP preferred.
1) Unless you are using xp 64 bit, you are limited to 2-3GB of memory per application and the 3GB switch in xp isn't the most reliable thing.
2) Assuming you use AutoCAD http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/it ... d=10361428 . This can potentially mean getting away with a strong consumer grade directX card (a few hundred vs. thousand dollars). I am not sure how this affects xp, but it sounds like direct10 support would be optimal.
[q]it should handle 3D CAD with occasional renders - (OpenGL/Direct3D support). [/q]
I haven't updated my copy of CAD in years, but rendering (I use "render" strictly for rendering the final static picture, not the loose definition that might include "render to screen") used to be a pure CPU task. The graphics card comes in when you are running the application and "previewing" your final output. I would very strongly recommend getting a quad core with 8gigs of ram. Else, rendering a picture with complex ligiht sources and ray tracing could be a nightmare.
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NeilBlanchard
- Moderator
- Posts: 7681
- Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 7:11 pm
- Location: Maynard, MA, Eaarth
- Contact:
Hello,
Last time I heard, AutoCAD doesn't run in Vista. I don't think that 2-3GB of system RAM is any limitation for this machine. Depending on the size of the SketchUp models, this will be the most stressful on the computer -- the video card(s) specifically. "Swinging" a 20MB SU model really taxes my two 256MB 7600GS, even in SLi mode. I have 2GB of RAM -- remember that Vista requires much more RAM than does XP.
I use DataCAD every day (which does run in Vista, btw), and even with multiple files that use multiple XRef's, it has never slowed noticeably.
I love multiple monitors, especially for CAD work -- I have two at work, and three here at home (where I do work part of the time). Dual DVI outputs are a must have. (At home, I have four DVI outputs!)
Last time I heard, AutoCAD doesn't run in Vista. I don't think that 2-3GB of system RAM is any limitation for this machine. Depending on the size of the SketchUp models, this will be the most stressful on the computer -- the video card(s) specifically. "Swinging" a 20MB SU model really taxes my two 256MB 7600GS, even in SLi mode. I have 2GB of RAM -- remember that Vista requires much more RAM than does XP.
I use DataCAD every day (which does run in Vista, btw), and even with multiple files that use multiple XRef's, it has never slowed noticeably.
I love multiple monitors, especially for CAD work -- I have two at work, and three here at home (where I do work part of the time). Dual DVI outputs are a must have. (At home, I have four DVI outputs!)
Just want to put down a disclaimer that I just read about AutoCAD's vista support and DirectX optimization. I am thinking of upgrading to vista 64bit for the same reason, but haven't done so yet.
I am not sure how AutoCAD runs in Vista. That whitepaper says it does and I am pointing to that because the same document claims the newest version of AutoCAD has good Direct3D support under vista. That is important because this would allow the end-user to have a great experience with a consumer card such as the geforce series you mentioned. This would save the cost of swing a card from the quadro or firegl line-up. There are some good threads around Direct3d vs. OpenGL for CAD on various forums
Assuming the new AutoCAD supports Direct3D well . a card such as 8800gt would be fine.
When I mentioned RAM and CPU, I menat for rendering static pictures, not where you "swing" sketchup models. The work I used to do required leaving the computer on overnight to render images. If you are only rendering simple
I am not sure how AutoCAD runs in Vista. That whitepaper says it does and I am pointing to that because the same document claims the newest version of AutoCAD has good Direct3D support under vista. That is important because this would allow the end-user to have a great experience with a consumer card such as the geforce series you mentioned. This would save the cost of swing a card from the quadro or firegl line-up. There are some good threads around Direct3d vs. OpenGL for CAD on various forums
I think this is exactly to my point of how older versions of CAD are optmized for OpenGL and not for Direct3D. I also want to point out that 1) 7600GS is a very underpowered card (not to be confused with the 7600gt). 2) SLI is meant for gaming and does not provide driver support to help AutoCADl.NeilBlanchard wrote:Hello,
"Swinging" a 20MB SU model really taxes my two 256MB 7600GS, even in SLi mode. I have 2GB of RAM -- remember that Vista requires much more RAM than does XP.
Assuming the new AutoCAD supports Direct3D well . a card such as 8800gt would be fine.
When I mentioned RAM and CPU, I menat for rendering static pictures, not where you "swing" sketchup models. The work I used to do required leaving the computer on overnight to render images. If you are only rendering simple