GA-MA78GM-S2H 4850e HD problems

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natty
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Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:36 am
Location: Hove, Sussex, UK

GA-MA78GM-S2H 4850e HD problems

Post by natty » Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:14 am

hi there

i put together a system not long ago as follows

Corsair 4GB Kit (2x2GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 XMS2 Memory Non-ECC Unbuffered CL5 Lifetime Warranty
Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H 780G
2 x Western Digital 750GB Hard Drive SATAII 7200rpm 16MB Cache - OEM Green Power
Seasonic S12 II 380W PSU - 12cm Fan 80Plus Efficiency
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4850e 2.5GHz Socket AM2 Energy Efficient 1MB L2
Scythe Mini Ninja Socket 478/775/754/939/940/AM2 Heatpipe Cooler
Antec Fusion Remote Veris Black MATX Media Center Case
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate
LG Electronics Blu-Ray & HD-DVD-Rom Combo 16x DVDRW Black SATA


but i am having some problems
1. HD content being quiet jerky when doing things like fast pans(actually seems to do it all the time, maybe just notice it more in that sort of situation), with a sort of heartbeat type rythm. this is always mkv type stuff as own no blue ray discs, but have checked on other peoples systems with same files and no jerkiness for them
2. the sound dissapearing when using HDMI input to the telly if i change to TV then back to the PC
3. the fonts in vista are pretty nasty - whether or not i do clear type - altho playing movies and things are fine. have to do major stuff in the CCC to get it readable
4. cool n quiet doesnt work - ie vista wont boot with it turned on in the bios

i have also tried XP pro x64 with the same sort of problems (in fact had more with getting the Catalyst Conrol Center to work)

i have this all plugged in via HDMI to my samsun LE32A559P4F full hd telly

am wondering if i have a dud board or something...? surely this setup should deal with HD movies without even breaking a sweat. as it should do this mostly with hardware right?
i have had the task manager open to reveal that the CPU never tops 15% whilst all this is going on... curiouser and curiouser

any thoughts or help appreciated

thanks

nat
Last edited by natty on Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

bonestonne
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Post by bonestonne » Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:37 am

in regards to AMD Cool n Quiet, that's a BIOS setting. By default I don't think it's enabled, you'll have to hop around the BIOS of your motherboard and make sure it's enabled. If it is enabled, and it isn't working, then it's because something is causing the CPU to stay under just enough load that it wont cool down.

i think the jerkiness of your playback might be from your drives. the GP series drives from WD don't operate at 7200RPM, they actually spin at 5400RPM. There's no way around that.

are the fonts bad on the TV or an LCD? if it's bad on the TV, then that's about right, i've never had a TV display a computer cleanly in any way...no matter what because it upscales the signal so much.

i'd say before anything else, try updating the BIOS. if the same problems exist, look into an RMA. 15% utilization sounds about right, but the audio issue isn't really a small one.

natty
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Location: Hove, Sussex, UK

Post by natty » Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:45 am

hi bonestone

thanks for the reply

i figured with all the ram and it being 64 bit, it would read ahead lots thus negating the disks somewhat...but i guess vlc is only 32 bit so no luck, maybe i should try media centre, media player whatever it is now...
do you think that a faster drive would make the difference? would that mean then that if i played it froma bluray disc, i would have no worries? or this would at least if successful point a big finger at the HDDs

the tv looks fine, although on older TV progs there is some ghosting, most of the TV i watch - using the freeview tuner in the TV itself looks just fine
its when i am usign the PC over the HDMI that i cant make out the fonts very well at all, I had upped the DPI alot in Vista which helped a bit, but they were sort of painful to read.
tried the same in XP but it doesnt do large fonts very well at all

i wil give updating the bios a go, havent actualled looked at what version it is, but i think the latest is V5, ill take a look

thanks again for your thoughts and time

nat

Nick Geraedts
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Post by Nick Geraedts » Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:27 am

Make sure you've updated the BIOS to the latest revision (I believe it's version F5 now). Are you running the latest Catalyst drivers? I've been able to play HD material with no problem (same board, 5200+). What media player are you using?

I've had the same audio problem with HDMI on the board. I've found that by switching back to the TV and then back to the system (after about 20 seconds) usually aleviates the problem. One more warning... if you're using HDMI make sure you set your power settings to never allow the system to make the "monitor" go to sleep. There was a bug in ATI's drivers that would try to alter the power state of your HDMI device and then cause a bugcheck (i.e. bluescreen).

I don't have CnQ enabled on my system, but I'm also running everything passively with just the two side case fans (800RPM Slipstreams).

Not sure about the fonts problem...

nutball
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Post by nutball » Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:34 pm

Regarding the crappy looking fonts, the Samsung LExxAyy series seem to apply sharpening to HDMI signals, including your desktop. If you go into the TV setup menu and turn the sharpening down to zero it might look better (worked for me at least!). Also make sure you've set the TV up to "just scan" and tweaked the settings in the CCC so there's zero overscan/underscan.

On the jerky playback that sounds like it might be a discrepancy between the vertical refresh rate and the frame rate of the movie (eg. 24fps movie played on a 60Hz mode). You should be able to check the frame rate of the movie, and with some messing about in CCC get access to the 24Hz screen modes.

Alternatively it could be that the player you're using isn't exploiting the hardware acceleration (pretty easy to tell, just check the CPU usage). Try using MPC-HC if you're not already.

natty
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Location: Hove, Sussex, UK

Post by natty » Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:52 am

hi all

thanks for the replys

nutball: so actually set up the CCC to set the monitor up at 24 hz rather than 60?
i have been using VLC - as i do and have done for everything for a long time, as it negates the neccesity to install any codecs at all, although i had not heard of mpc-hc which i have just downloaded, ill give it a go and let you know how it turned out. i had also made vista use the 64 bit MCE in an attempt to use the 64 bitness of it all, but cant get any of the sodding codecs to work with that at all, followed some online tips saying install hali mediasplitter and ffdshow - no luck with MCE anyhow
im certainly not sure that its the HDD's, the HDD light on the front panel doesnt seem to be accessign the drive allt he time, even with a 10gb 1080p mkv file... but i did actually d/l the manual for the telly, which mentioned that i should be using the HDMI #2 input rather than the #1 i had been using.
although all this seems to have done, was to make the screen blue to start with,and doesnt seem to have had any other affect at all. - the blueness dissepeared i think after the CCC was installed - but was only noticable pre windows..
i also updated the firmware on the TV, as when reading through the pdf manual, it appears that i dont have all the same options in the menus at all, primarily the positioning type ones... but again unfortunately they didnt suddenly appear, so havent been able to find the just scan option at all :(
as for it not using the hardware, 15% CPU would hint that it was?

nick: have updated the bios to f5, and also as mentioned above the TV firmware. i installed the CCC drivers from the disc that came with the mobo, havent updated them as yet. when they were installed however, the picture did underscan, and i had to go into CCC and change the settings in there to get it to fill the screen (from nutballs points, it seems that i should be doing that on the TV instead tho)

still slightly stumed but will try MPC HC and see how i get on

as always many thanks for your help and time

cheers

nat

nutball
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Post by nutball » Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:03 pm

natty wrote:nutball: so actually set up the CCC to set the monitor up at 24 hz rather than 60?
If you go into CCC -> DTV(HDMI 1) -> HDTV Support you'll see that you can add modes such as 1080p24. You may have to put CCC into advanced mode to do this, if you haven't already.

I have my desktop set to 60Hz, but using MPC-HC I get the option to change mode when switching to full-screen, and that option includes 1920x1080p24. So for me this is a good setup, I get 60Hz for normal desktop use and 24Hz when I need it playing fullscreen movies.
i had also made vista use the 64 bit MCE in an attempt to use the 64 bitness of it all, but cant get any of the sodding codecs to work with that at all, followed some online tips saying install hali mediasplitter and ffdshow - no luck with MCE anyhow
I've not really had much luck with VMCE, though it doesn't even pretend to deliver half of what I want so its not a long-term option anyway. Only today I've been trying to get ffdshow to work with Vista64 and it doesn't even show up. I think it probably doesn't work. Not that it would help because it doesn't use the hardware acceleration anyway for anything.

MPC-HC does for most of the movies I have, though not all.
im certainly not sure that its the HDD's, the HDD light on the front panel doesnt seem to be accessign the drive allt he time, even with a 10gb 1080p mkv file...
I've played HD content from 5400rpm drives and from shares across gigabit ethernet. Rarely if ever have I concluded that the performance of either of those was causing the problem.
but i did actually d/l the manual for the telly, which mentioned that i should be using the HDMI #2 input rather than the #1 i had been using.
My manual says the same, but I ignored it. I'm using HDMI1. I think the point of that statement in the manual is presuming you're driving through a DVI output, using a device which is presuming that it's going to be talking to a normal DVI PC monitor. I think it's Samsung playing it safe. The 780G should be putting out precisely what an HDTV is expecting over HDMI, ie. the HDTV is talking to a device which is presuming it's talking to an HDTV over HDMI, not a PC monitor over DVI, if that makes sense?! Especially when doing 1920x1080p24 which ain't a traditional "PC desktop" resolution :)
i also updated the firmware on the TV, as when reading through the pdf manual, it appears that i dont have all the same options in the menus at all, primarily the positioning type ones... but again unfortunately they didnt suddenly appear, so havent been able to find the just scan option at all :(
Did you switch to using HDMI2? I think there was a reason I decided to use HDMI1, eg. that some important options aren't available on HDMI2 (sorry, I can't recall in detail!). Like I said I've gone against the advice in the manual.

I have to go Menu -> Picture (top icon on left of menu) -> Picture Options (scroll down past Detailed Settings) -> Size -> Just Scan.
as for it not using the hardware, 15% CPU would hint that it was?
Yes, that sounds about right.

Did the sharpening thing help with the crummy fonts by the way?

JoeWPgh
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Post by JoeWPgh » Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:37 pm

I would comb through what you have running at start up. I doubt it's your drives, CPU or GPU. I run a nearly identical setup without your issues.
From what you describe, it seems like you have something running in background that's hogging resources.

I don't know what you have installed on your machine, but things like 'quick launchers' (Adobe, MS Office) don't do a whole heck of a lot to launch things quickly, but they do burn resources. Some software adds features that are nothing but redundant. How many back-up monitors or pop-up blockers do you really need running at once?
My advice is to go through what you have running and disable everything you don't need for the machine's purpose.

natty
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Post by natty » Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:40 pm

hi nutball, thanks again for another expansive reply

i have had a bit of a fiddle, and have sorted afew bits - setting just scan and turning off any scaling in CCC did a great deal to the readability of the fonts, and turning down the sharpness also helped alot, thanks for those pointers

i downloaded mpc hc 64 (and bunged it in program files the non x86 one)

i found the setting to set it to 24hz 1920x1080 in mpc but not in CCC
on the HDTV suuport option in advanced CCC i get a load of options but none of them are 24hz, get some 25hz but they are interlaced formats...!?!?

i think maybe that joeWpgh has the answer, i am going to try to turn everything off that doesnt need to be running, maybe indexign service or something, as i am still getting the jittering.... i call it that but it really is more of a every second or so, it sticks on a frame, notice it mostly on ...w ell i have star wars episode 3 and when there are the shots of the big city with the little cruizery cars flying by in their various levels, they stop briefly every second or so, most annoying


however, as this is a bit of a vanilla vista install, it must be something i have not added to what is running, there is nothing in the startup folder in start bar, and not alot of stuff in sys tray at all
grrrr
maybe its a service of some sort?

thanks again for your help
nat

nutball
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Post by nutball » Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:18 pm

natty wrote:i downloaded mpc hc 64 (and bunged it in program files the non x86 one)

i found the setting to set it to 24hz 1920x1080 in mpc but not in CCC
on the HDTV suuport option in advanced CCC i get a load of options but none of them are 24hz, get some 25hz but they are interlaced formats...!?!?
Hmmm. Well I'm running out of ideas.

In MPC-HC when you play a movie (in non-full-screen mode) you should be able to Show Info... or similar (might be File... Properties) which will tell you the frame rate you're after.

It's worth trying different options between OVR, WMR7 and WMR9 too.
i think maybe that joeWpgh has the answer, i am going to try to turn everything off that doesnt need to be running, maybe indexign service or something, as i am still getting the jittering.... i call it that but it really is more of a every second or so, it sticks on a frame, notice it mostly on ...w ell i have star wars episode 3 and when there are the shots of the big city with the little cruizery cars flying by in their various levels, they stop briefly every second or so, most annoying
Well if it's a service it's likely hard-drive related and you'd see a flash of the relevant LED. Worth having a look of course, and disabling indexing and also maybe system restore.

But what you're describing sounds similar to what I see if I get the wrong mode settings when I play a movie.

JoeWPgh
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Post by JoeWPgh » Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:30 pm

In Vista, right click 'computer', select properties. In that window, select 'performance' (though while you're there, take a look at your indexing options). 'Manage Start up Programs' will be at the top of the list. You'll be surprised how much garbage loads itself unseen in the tray.

natty
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Post by natty » Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:42 pm

well certainly hdd led on the front of my machine - not usually visible - does seem to flick every second, pretty reliably.
looking at task manager doesnt seem to show what this might be though, as most of the time the cpu happily sits at 0,1,2% whilst nothing else is going on
again nothign seemingly untoward running ... stupid thing something clearly appears to be accessing the drive... although i run the movies from the 2nd drive, so i can see why it might be doing somethign to the first... and appear to have the same problem on both drives...

have gone into manage startup is that like the old msconfig in xp?
nothing seemingly out of place there at all, just the windows defender type things and realtek audio stuff

where do the indexing settings live?
cant see them there

jhhoffma
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Post by jhhoffma » Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:30 am

I have the same CPU/Mobo with 2GB RAM on my HTPC and it will play anything I through at it. You need to make sure you've got the right configuration in you're codec and filters. If you are playing .mkv's, you have two options: CoreAVC or MPC-HC. The second is free, but harder to get working, as it's DXVA. There are ways to hack VMC to use the MPC-HC DXVA filters, but I haven't been all that successful with it. I use CoreAVC on my HTPC and it works flawlessly with 1080p material. I'm sending a 720p signal to my RPTV which is 1080i native. I do get a little shuddering in slow pans up/down or left/right, but it's a limitation of the display not the HTPC.

I think nutball is right, it's just a matter of finding the right options in software.

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