Advice for HTPC on a budget... been away from PC building

[alexb]

I got a relatively old quiet system now:

AMD Barton 2500+ OCed to 3200+ with Thermalright SLK800 all copper, Panaflo fans, Lian li case, seasonic 250watts PSU, WD 500GB, Radeon 9700

I would like to upgrade to new line of dual/quad CPUs, change from tower desktop to HTPC case, make it quiet enough for bedroom, and have enough GPU for decent gamin (not top of the line)...

CPU:
What BUDGET CPU is best bang for the buck? I wanna keep the CPU below $120ish, so thinking of either AMD X3, or Intel E7200, or should I look elswhere? Also, what HTPC friendly heatsinks?

Case:
If I wanna have separate video card, can I actually use mini-ATX? If not, what's the slimmest ATX HTPC case?

mobo:
As stated above, prefer to keep it mATX, but if not possible, what's best BUDGET mobo for each Intel or AMD I stated? Also, is there a mobo with integrated GPU that performs decent?

Video card:
If no decent integrated mobo GPU exists, What's a good basic, quiet card these days that can handle the latest games with decent performance (not highest)?

Part re-use:
I've been away from modding for quite some time, after I built this one a few years back, have just been following things sporadically. So, apart from my HDD, what other parts can I re-use?
DDR? PSU (is 250W enuf)? fans (is Panaflo still the best)?

Blu-ray:
Is it worth it? or shall I just get a PS3?

I apologize in advance if I am asking noob questions, but as I said I've been away for a while and just tried to catchup by going through some Toms articles.

Thanks guys

[L2GX]

If you want to game a igp is almost out of the question, but so is a low-budget cpu, unfortunately. Anandtech is probably going to publish cpu tests this week, they already published a review of the best motherboards, including budget ones.

To be honest pc games are not designed to be played from a couch, bluetooth keyboard or no. Would you consider buying a seperate gaming machine at a later date? I know my SO doesn't allow me much gaming time on my pc since we hooked it up to the projector! Also, if you focus on a clean HTPC your options will improve aall round.

I think you're spoilt for choice when it comes to cases, unfortunately if you get even a medium GPU odds are it will be a long card witha problematic fit.
Research reviews on the cases you like and compare the mobo and gpu layout they use to the one you are considering. If you go for a clean HTPC a mobo with a good chipset will make a GPU redudant, and your choices easier.
Antec seems to have the cheapest HTPC cases, if you go for a 'hifi' look.

250Watt psu will not be enough for a modern mobo, cpu and gpu. With integrated graphics you might just pull it off, depending on the number of hard drives. Almost all mobos still come with ide connectors, but to be honest the low cost of hard drives makes it pointless not to upgrade.

Blu Ray is worth it as a PS3 costs a lot more than adding a drive to a pc. The connectivity of a PS3 and therefore it's value as a media pc is very limited. Don't expect Sony to improve this, neither.
However make sure your mobo chipset supports blu-ray!

[angelkiller]

Hello.

For a CPU, I recommend the E5200. It is cheap, runs very cool, and overclocks very well. For the graphics card, I recommend ATI's 4670. It has an extremely high price to performance ratio. The card also has enough power to decode HD movies, so it can to Blu-Ray 1080p no problem. If you decide to use the 4670, the motherboard doesn't matter much. This Gigabyte G43 board seems decent enough.

What case do you currently have? It is possible to have a separate graphics card in a mATX case. From your current setup, you can reuse you PSU, HDD and possibly your case.

Blu-Ray? It depends. If are looking for the simplest and easiest way to watch Blu-Ray, a standalone player or PS3 would probably be the best option. However, if you don't mind putting some time into this, a computer can do much more than the PS3. I don't recommend getting a PS3 and a HTPC. Blu-Ray drives for computers can be had for ~$100 (US).

250Watt psu will not be enough for a modern mobo, cpu and gpu. With integrated graphics you might just pull it off, depending on the number of hard drives.

Actually 250W is plenty of power for nearly all reasonable builds. Look at this thread. The user is running a E4500 and 3870 on a 200W Dell power brick.

Hopefully that was helpful.

[alexb]

Thank you both for your help!

I did some more research... saw that low power thread on TomsHardware with G31 and E7200.

So, kind of think E7200 would be a good choice. AMD line is quite busy... basically not sure if an AMD at the same speed of E7200, would be hotter or cooler?!?!

For video card, I am liking Radoen 4830, how's that different than 4670? Looks like 4830 has decent 3D power, not too expensive and runs not too hot (although not 100% sure on that point).

For mobo, I am leaning towards IGPs, either the Gforce 9300/9400 range, or the ones with HD 3300 IGP. I have no idea if any of those IGPs would run decent games ok or not, I haven't got into any latest games at the moment, Half Life 2 is probably the most advanced I got right not (old school!).

My case is a nice Lian-li aluminium case. but I wanna change to the ones that go into my Sterro rack... so I gotto change my case, any recommendations? I need something slick looking with IR remote capability.

Thanks

[QuietOC]

AMD Barton 2500+ OCed to 3200+ with Thermalright SLK800 all copper, Panaflo fans, Lian li case, seasonic 250watts PSU, WD 500GB, Radeon 9700

I had an OCed Barton mobile at one point. If I remember correctly, it could run at 2.8GHz at very high power consumption. There hasn't been a huge difference in performance since then other than much lower power (and the infrequent usefulness of multiple cores.)

CPU:
What BUDGET CPU is best bang for the buck? I wanna keep the CPU below $120ish, so thinking of either AMD X3, or Intel E7200, or should I look elswhere? Also, what HTPC friendly heatsinks?

$20 Sempron LE-1250
$40 Athlon X2 4850e
$66 Athlon X2 5400+ Black Edition
$76 Intel Pentium Dual Core E5200
$120 Intel Core 2 Duo E7200
$190 Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200

The E7200 is very easy to overclock to 3.8GHz even on a lowly G31 motherboard. I haven't gotten my E5200 past 3.3GHz yet (I need to do the BSEL mod to it, or get a better motherboard.) The "G2" stepping K8s are all capable of 3.2GHz or so and can also run ~1.5GHz at 0.800V. The Black Edition lets you choose any multiplier.

mobo:
As stated above, prefer to keep it mATX, but if not possible, what's best BUDGET mobo for each Intel or AMD I stated? Also, is there a mobo with integrated GPU that performs decent?

AMD chipsets
$40 AMD 740G
$70 AMD 780G/Geforce 8200

Intel chipsets
$40 Intel G31/P31
$70 Intel G33/P35
$100 Geforce 9300

780G and Geforce 9300 are pretty equal in 3D performance. The Geforce 8200 is slightly slower. 740G is half the speed, but still faster than anything by Intel (G45/G35/G33). The Geforce chipsets have upperhand with HD video audio playback. Even the faster 790GX/Geforce 9400 are too slow for a few games. A $30 video card can be twice as fast. The $50 video card listed below is 10x faster.

Video card:
If no decent integrated mobo GPU exists, What's a good basic, quiet card these days that can handle the latest games with decent performance (not highest)?

$50 Geforce 9600 GSO
$70 Radeon HD 4670
$80 Geforce 9600 GT
$100 Radeon HD 4830
$180 Radeon HD 4870

[angelkiller]

So, kind of think E7200 would be a good choice. AMD line is quite busy... basically not sure if an AMD at the same speed of E7200, would be hotter or cooler?!?!

For video card, I am liking Radoen 4830, how's that different than 4670? Looks like 4830 has decent 3D power, not too expensive and runs not too hot (although not 100% sure on that point).

Ok, it seems like you want a build that is one step above budget. The E7200 is a noticible upgrade to the E5200 and the 4830 also brings a healthy boost compared to the 4670. Two solid choices.

For mobo, I am leaning towards IGPs, either the Gforce 9300/9400 range, or the ones with HD 3300 IGP. I have no idea if any of those IGPs would run decent games ok or not, I haven't got into any latest games at the moment, Half Life 2 is probably the most advanced I got right not (old school!).

Here's where I get confused. Why does the performance of the IGP matter if you are getting a 4830? The 4830 will handle all of you video tasks and the IGP will be diabled. That's why earlier I said that the motherboard doesn't matter much.

[QuietOC]

I have no idea if any of those IGPs would run decent games ok or not, I haven't got into any latest games at the moment, Half Life 2 is probably the most advanced I got right not (old school!).

My 780G could run HL2 (Source) based games okay at up to 1024x768. It was a little too slow for Team Fortress 2 on a 1366x768 HDTV, but it pretty much matched the performance of a DDR2 equipped, passive Geforce 7300GT. The 780G is limited by the lack of bandwidth through the K8 CPU to the memory. The Geforce 9300/9400 don't have that problem.

[alexb]

So, kind of think E7200 would be a good choice. AMD line is quite busy... basically not sure if an AMD at the same speed of E7200, would be hotter or cooler?!?!

For video card, I am liking Radoen 4830, how's that different than 4670? Looks like 4830 has decent 3D power, not too expensive and runs not too hot (although not 100% sure on that point).

Ok, it seems like you want a build that is one step above budget. The E7200 is a noticible upgrade to the E5200 and the 4830 also brings a healthy boost compared to the 4670. Two solid choices.

For mobo, I am leaning towards IGPs, either the Gforce 9300/9400 range, or the ones with HD 3300 IGP. I have no idea if any of those IGPs would run decent games ok or not, I haven't got into any latest games at the moment, Half Life 2 is probably the most advanced I got right not (old school!).

Here's where I get confused. Why does the performance of the IGP matter if you are getting a 4830? The 4830 will handle all of you video tasks and the IGP will be diabled. That's why earlier I said that the motherboard doesn't matter much.

Well, I am not sure how much upgrade E5200 would be over my Barton 2500+ running at 3200+... I've been away from PCs for a while, so not sure how much things have advanced, apart from dual core, as the CPU speeds have remained the same pretty much.

I agree, my vidoe card options are a bit confusing... basically, IF, I can get away with IGPs for decent gaming, then I would go that route, no video card, and build on mATX in a smaller, ligher case and save a bunch of money.

If not, then I guess I have no choice but to go with ATX HTPC case, separate video card.

PS. Would 4670 be faster than my OLD Radeon 9700pro?

[QuietOC]

PS. Would 4670 be faster than my OLD Radeon 9700pro?

The 780G integrated video is faster than a Radeon 9700 Pro!

Radeon HD 4670 is a good 4x to 8x faster (more so on newer games w/ higher anti-aliasing).

Micro ATX is fine with video cards. You can even run dual video cards in Micro ATX (but not recommended.)