Building Quite LOW Power NAS ( advice wanted )

[dgccr]

Hello All,

Great forum I just joined today but have been reading all the FAQ's, Reviews etc..

Lots of questions answered from reading and searching alone..

But a few questions I still have.

Im building a NAS that I hope to be pretty quite, powerfull and efficient.

Parts List

4 Hard Drives - Western Digital BLACK WD5001AALS or Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS ( both 32mb cache )

This Samsung Spinpoint seems to be a favorite here but feel the 16MB cache may not be in my best interest since this is for a NAS
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822152052

Processor - Intel Celeron 430 Conroe-L 1.8GHz 512KB L2 Cache LGA 775 35W Should be more than enough for a NAS and low power 35watts
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819116039

Can anyone recommend a decent quite low profile fan for this processor im assuming the low voltage should help.

Does anyone know about this guy ? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 20Shuriken

And last question is, My case only has 1 - 120MM fan spot which is on the side. Is that enough being I have no video card and a lower watt processor?

The fans I have been looking at are :

Scythe S-FLEX SFF21D - 33.5 CFM - 8.7 dBA - 800RPM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835185004

Scythe S-FLEX SFF21E - 49.0 CFM - 20.1dBA - 1200RPM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835185005

Not sure if either of those are sufficient enough or not. Any recommendation would be greatly appreciated.

So the CPU will have a cooler, The case will have a 120MM fan and my PSU has a fan.

PSU - SeaSonic SS-350ES 350W ( 80PLus Cert )
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817151038

These are the last few parts im not sure on for building a reliable quite and sufficiently cooled NAS which will be running BSD FREENAS.
Thanks in advance guys,

Daryl G

[jessekopelman]

4 Hard Drives - Western Digital BLACK WD5001AALS or Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS ( both 32mb cache )

This Samsung Spinpoint seems to be a favorite here but feel the 16MB cache may not be in my best interest since this is for a NAS
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822152052

Most NAS applications do not need especially fast hard drives. Having more cache is only useful if you are dealing with a lots of small transactions (eg writing lots of very small files). Seagate HDD are generally the noisiest you can get. I think your best bet are either the Western Digital GP or the Samsung Ecogreen. These are the quietest, most power efficient, 3.5" drives you can buy. Unless you are doing something unusual, these drives are plenty fast for NAS.

Also, why 4X medium capacity drives? Using fewer higher capacity drives will use less power, produce less heat in your case, make less noise, and possibly even cost less money.

[QuietOC]

Processor - Intel Celeron 430 Conroe-L 1.8GHz 512KB L2 Cache LGA 775 35W Should be more than enough for a NAS and low power 35watts

There are no low power desktop chipsets/motherboards for LGA 775. My 1.6GHz Sempron LE-1250 + 740G motherboard is ~20W full load. This is on a board with limited undervolting. My 45nm E5200 + G31 motherboard idles >40W.

The Conroe also seems to really fall flat in performance with such reduced L2 cache. You'll want at least get a Pentium Dual Core for decent performance.

[dgccr]

4 Hard Drives - Western Digital BLACK WD5001AALS or Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS ( both 32mb cache )

This Samsung Spinpoint seems to be a favorite here but feel the 16MB cache may not be in my best interest since this is for a NAS
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822152052

Most NAS applications do not need especially fast hard drives. Having more cache is only useful if you are dealing with a lots of small transactions (eg writing lots of very small files). Seagate HDD are generally the noisiest you can get. I think your best bet are either the Western Digital GP or the Samsung Ecogreen. These are the quietest, most power efficient, 3.5" drives you can buy. Unless you are doing something unusual, these drives are plenty fast for NAS.

Also, why 4X medium capacity drives? Using fewer higher capacity drives will use less power, produce less heat in your case, make less noise, and possibly even cost less money.

Hello Jesse,

Thanks for the reply, I will look into the Samsung & Western Digital drives, Any idea how the WD Black drives work?

The 4x drives would be -

2 - RAID 1 ( storage )
1 - used for RSYNC Backups of the Raid 1
1 - OSX Time Machine Backups over the lan. ( I may do RSYNCS right from the machines not sure yet and alleviate this drive )

So it maybe 3 drives in total.

As for the NAS its just for my house, Will be storing Pics / Music / Vids / Docs & Will stream to my X360 + any other machine in the house that needs access to files.

So im not doing anyting too crazy.

[dgccr]

Processor - Intel Celeron 430 Conroe-L 1.8GHz 512KB L2 Cache LGA 775 35W Should be more than enough for a NAS and low power 35watts

There are no low power desktop chipsets/motherboards for LGA 775. My 1.6GHz Sempron LE-1250 + 740G motherboard is ~20W full load. This is on a board with limited undervolting. My 45nm E5200 + G31 motherboard idles >40W.

The Conroe also seems to really fall flat in performance with such reduced L2 cache. You'll want at least get a Pentium Dual Core for decent performance.

Hello,

This is the first i am hearing of this as on the FREENAS forums alot have built fast servers from PII and PIII machines and said this would be a recommended chip ( plenty fast / low wattage / low heat ) unless I am wrong which I maybe but they run NAS servers from much less in the processor dept.

Will those fans I have listed be sufficent enough I dont see too much heat being generated.

Again thanks guys!!!

Daryl

[QuietOC]

unless I am wrong which I maybe but they run NAS servers from much less in the processor dept.

The Celeron 430 would certainly be fast enough. It is just not efficient or powerful. You stated:

Im building a NAS that I hope to be pretty quite[sic], powerfull and efficient.

Not with the Celeron 430.

[dgccr]

unless I am wrong which I maybe but they run NAS servers from much less in the processor dept.

The Celeron 430 would certainly be fast enough. It is just not power efficient or powerful. You stated:

Im building a NAS that I hope to be pretty quite, powerfull and efficient.

Not with the Celeron 430.

I see maybe im totally missing what you are saying and I am in no way doubting you.

But I thought at 35watts it was pretty efficient ( or a good power sipper ) I could of been wording that wrong. Ive heard its basically a single core ( core2duo ) chip.

For a gaming or vista rig I would never even think of using that chip. I only purchased it due to low voltage / low heat and being more than fast enough to handle what FREENAS will need.

I dont think FREENAS needs that much processor at all wouldn't my bottleneck be somewhere else in the build?

If not what other processor would work good?

Do you guys know if my fan situation will be sufficient?

I really do appreciate the assistance. the only heat generated would be from the drives / low voltage cpu / PSU

Im trying to build a fast and quite NAS and stay reasonable priced ( $500 Plus or Minus $50 )

Daryl

[QuietOC]

But I thought at 35watts it was pretty efficient being its basically a single core ( core2duo ) chip and has been overclocked to 3ghz with ease.

First, TDP numbers are often meaningless. The 45nm dual core E5200 and E7200 consume less than 20W at full load even though they are 65W TDP. The Celeron 430 might be closer to its rated TDP, and I am sure it can be cooled quietly, but it is likely one of the slowest and least power efficient chips currently available. Combine that with one of Intel's high power chipsets on an inefficient motherboard and the whole thing is going to be very power inefficient.

If you want low power Intel: a 4W TDP Atom 230 is not much slower than the Celeron 430. There is also the Celeron 220 which is a 15W TDP chip. Both are available soldered on cheap motherboards. Both are stuck with high power, low performance chipsets.

[dgccr]

But I thought at 35watts it was pretty efficient being its basically a single core ( core2duo ) chip and has been overclocked to 3ghz with ease.

First, TDP numbers are often meaningless. The 45nm dual core E5200 and E7200 consume less than 20W at full load even though they are 65W TDP. The Celeron 430 might be closer to its rated TDP, and I am sure it can be cooled quietly, but it is likely one of the slowest and least power efficient chips currently available. Combine that with one of Intel's high power chipsets on an inefficient motherboard and the whole thing is going to be very power inefficient.

If you want low power Intel: a 4W TDP Atom 220 is not much slower than the Celeron 430. The Atom is still stuck with high power Intel chipsets, however.

Gotcha, Sorry was editing my post as you replied. Efficient maybe shouldnt be the word I was using. I am just trying to stick with lower wattage parts so I have less heat and require less of the PSU.

Can you recommend a good 120MM case fan ( i only have room for one and its a side mount which I know is not preferred )

As well as a good CPU fan that is not to tall as space is limited "height"

I just know the fans can be major contributer to noise. So I am trying to iron out my fan and Hard drive preference.. I believe the Seasonic PSU's are pretty good in the noise dept.

Again im not aiming for an Extreme silent machine just trying to keep the noise to a minimum as this will be running 24/7 along with my other PC's so the less noise the better

[QuietOC]

Can you recommend a good 120MM case fan ( i only have room for one and its a side mount which I know is not preferred )

I like my Global Win NCBs. The Yate Loon low speed sleeve bearing fan is the typical SPCR budget recommendation.

As well as a good CPU fan that is not to tall as space is limited "height"

The Shruken should be a decent heatsink. Intel might have a really poor cooler included with the Celeron, but you could try it.

So I am trying to iron out my fan and Hard drive preference.. I believe the Seasonic PSU's are pretty good in the noise dept.

WD GP harddrives (WD6400AACS being the best.)
I have cheap In Win IP-P300AJ2s with the 120mm fans swapped for Global Win NCBs. Someone else can recommend something more expensive that is quiet stock. A PicoPSU with a 12V brick is probably the most efficient option.

[dgccr]

Would either of these case fans be sufficient?

Scythe S-FLEX SFF21D - 33.5 CFM - 8.7 dBA - 800RPM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835185004

Scythe S-FLEX SFF21E - 49.0 CFM - 20.1dBA - 1200RPM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835185005

[QuietOC]

Would either of these case fans be sufficient?

Scythe S-FLEX SFF21D - 33.5 CFM - 8.7 dBA - 800RPM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835185004

Scythe S-FLEX SFF21E - 49.0 CFM - 20.1dBA - 1200RPM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835185005

I have the faster "F" version and don't like it. The "D" is plenty fast.

The Global Win NCBs or Yate Loons are a lot cheaper, but those and the "E" S-Flex you will want to run at ~800rpm anyway.

[dgccr]

Would either of these case fans be sufficient?

Scythe S-FLEX SFF21D - 33.5 CFM - 8.7 dBA - 800RPM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835185004

Scythe S-FLEX SFF21E - 49.0 CFM - 20.1dBA - 1200RPM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835185005

I have the faster "F" version and don't like it. The "D" is plenty fast.

The Global Win NCBs or Yate Loons are a lot cheaper, but those and the "E" S-Flex you will want to run at ~800rpm anyway.

OK cool so either this guy

Scythe S-FLEX SFF21D - 33.5 CFM - 8.7 dBA - 800RPM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835185004

Or one of your two recomendations. Now being they state 800RPM is that what they will run at just plugged right in or will i need a fan controller to achieve that RPM?

Thanks!!!!

[QuietOC]

Now being they state 800RPM is that what they will run at just plugged right in or will i need a fan controller to achieve that RPM?

Approximately 800rpm at 12V. SPCR reviewed these a while back.

[dgccr]

Now being they state 800RPM is that what they will run at just plugged right in or will i need a fan controller to achieve that RPM?

Approximately 800rpm at 12V. SPCR reviewed these a while back.

Thats where I got the idea!!!

Thanks for the Drive recommendation, I was looking for the 500GB Black ones but the 640s will work.

Do you know if the blacks are less efficient / alot noiser?

640 is looking nice though and priced right!

[QuietOC]

Do you know if the blacks are less efficient / alot noiser?

640 is looking nice though and priced right!

I just got a Blue WD6400AAKS for $70 myself.

The 640GB Blue and Black are some of the fastest drives currently (though 500GB/platter drives are coming soon.) The AACS/Green Power is lower power and lower noise but slower. There is also the small/fast Velociraptors. All are good quiet choices.

Tomshardware Performance/Watt
WD10EADS = bigger version of WD6400AACS
WD1001FALS = bigger version of WD6400AALS





The 2-platter 640GB drives should actually place higher on these charts than the 3-platter 1TB drives (lower power/similar performance).

[jessekopelman]

Do you know if the blacks are less efficient / alot noiser?

In WD parlance, Black is high performance, Blue is mainstream, and Green is power efficient. For your application, you don't need high performance, so no need for Black. Since you do care about power efficiency, that would point to Green. You may also want to see if the Samsung Ecogreen (aka F2) is available to you. Some say these are even better than Western Digital GP.

[QuietOC]

TechReport's power measurements



Of course 2.5" notebook drives are much lower power.

My new WD3200BEKT looks pretty decent in performance/Watt. Too bad it is pretty slow and only 320GB.

[dgccr]

TechReport's power measurements



Of course 2.5" notebook drives are much lower power.

My new WD3200BEKT looks pretty decent in performance/Watt. Too bad it is pretty slow and only 320GB.

I see, I do want fast access though as this is a NAS it will be streaming data, backing up data etc from my machines on the network.

[jessekopelman]

I see, I do want fast access though as this is a NAS it will be streaming data, backing up data etc from my machines on the network.

Those aren't really high performance tasks, by modern standards. Pretty much any drive is going to be fast enough for you.

[QuietOC]

Anandtech pretty much makes the same recommendations (well, they don't mention using a 2.5" drive on a desktop.)

[FuturePastNow]

It's too bad there aren't any Atom boards (that I know of) with four SATA ports. One of those and four GP drives would make a decent low-power NAS.

[MikeC]

It's too bad there aren't any Atom boards (that I know of) with four SATA ports. One of those and four GP drives would make a decent low-power NAS.

PCI adapters for SATA connections are cheap and probably take very little power.

[dgccr]

Heres the deal I am looking for low power since it usually generates less heat which is less fans and less noise.

But not to the point where I will loose performance, First and foremost I want this NAS to be fast as it will be streaming hd media to my xbox 360 + other machines on the network.

Atom would be nice, But cost per performance the 1.8 Conroe Celeron is hard to beat.

This site has definitly opened me up to new ideas for silencing stuff I never knew about!!!

-Daryl

[loimlo]

Why bother a Seasonic 350W? I am sure it's a quiet 80mm fan cooled PSU, but you can get a quieter 120mm fan cooled here http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817151035

Otherwise, I'd get a Seasonic 300W to save money here, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817151059 , as a NAS never requires so much power. In fact, I've used a Seasonic SS-200SFD, which was a 200W rated PSU, for a 3 HDDs NAS.

[dgccr]

Cool,

I will look into that 300W model as well.

Does anyone know of a more efficient motherboard then my choice :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813186110

My only requirement is LGA775 MATX as I already have my chip
( Celeron CONROE-L 430 35w 1.8GHZ )

-daryl

[jessekopelman]

But not to the point where I will loose performance, First and foremost I want this NAS to be fast as it will be streaming hd media to my xbox 360 + other machines on the network.

But that's not really a high performance task. Really high quality HD video is still only about 20Mbps. Even a mediocre 3.5" HDD has no trouble maintaining 40MBps -- that's 320Mbps, or 16 simultaneous HD streams. Yes, CPU will start to come into play if you are really doing a lot of simultaneous streams, but for 1 or 2, even single core Atom will be fine. That said, Celeron + cheap motherboard is still the better value than Atom + SATA PCI card. Anyway, the point is that your CPU choice is fine, but you are worried about performance that you don't require.

[dgccr]

But not to the point where I will loose performance, First and foremost I want this NAS to be fast as it will be streaming hd media to my xbox 360 + other machines on the network.

But that's not really a high performance task. Really high quality HD video is still only about 20Mbps. Even a mediocre 3.5" HDD has no trouble maintaining 40MBps -- that's 320Mbps, or 16 simultaneous HD streams. Yes, CPU will start to come into play if you are really doing a lot of simultaneous streams, but for 1 or 2, even single core Atom will be fine. That said, Celeron + cheap motherboard is still the better value than Atom + SATA PCI card. Anyway, the point is that your CPU choice is fine, but you are worried about performance that you don't require.

Thanks Jesse!

So it looks like I will be going with the WD Greens then 640GB i wasnt sure if having the 32mb cache would improve the streaming but if not, No reason not to go for the Green drives!

I read something about the Green drives and Linux having issues constantly spinning down and up and wearing out fast but I think that has been fixed.

Cool I cant wait to start this build, Now that I am armed with alot more knowledge in power consumption and noise, Ill post my rig once complete.

Is there any programs out there that can give you an idea how much power your rig is pulling?

Id like to see how I make out with my new NAS as well as see how my old Pentium 4 3.4 does with power consumption!

Thanks Again,
-Daryl

[FuturePastNow]

It's too bad there aren't any Atom boards (that I know of) with four SATA ports. One of those and four GP drives would make a decent low-power NAS.

PCI adapters for SATA connections are cheap and probably take very little power.

True. I was worried about the performance cost of running a couple of SATA drives over PCI, but now that I think the bus bandwidth vs. the real-world speed only two drives, I doubt it would be a problem. As long as the board's gigabit isn't trying to run on the same bus...

[jessekopelman]

Is there any programs out there that can give you an idea how much power your rig is pulling?

It's too hard to estimate low power PC draw, because at under 100W things like PSU efficiency and motherboard power regulation start to play a major role. A power meter is not a bad investment in terms of entertainment value -- it will last a long time and every time you get/build a new toy you can whip it out.