P182 i7 system

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kermith
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P182 i7 system

Post by kermith » Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:18 am

I'm planning on building a system in a p182 (or 183 if it manages to actually appear in stores) and people here seem to have the most experience with them so I was hoping you could give it a look.

I know it won't be silent but I'm trying to get it as quiet as possible without losing (to much) performance.
I won't actually be building it myself. I'll just order everything from the same store and have it build there so no hardware modifications probably (unless it's really minor/easy)

the list:

Mobo: Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 (no real reason other then seeing it in a guide somewhere)
CPU: Intel Core i7 920
Cpu cooler: Noctua NH-U12P SE1366
Memory: Corsair Dominator TR3X6G1600C8D
Gfx: GigaByte GTX285 (biggest weakpoint noise wise, but from what I've read it seemed like the best trade off noise vs. performance for me. I just noticed a deal for a 280 for €100 less so might pick that up instead if they still have it by then afraid it will be even louder though)
Sound: onboard (unless someone can convince me i do need a soundcard)
HD1: WD Velociraptor WD1500HLFS 150GB (+ NoVibes 2,5" probably)
HD2: Samsung Spinpoint F1 HD103UJ 1TB
Dvd: Pioneer DVR216DBK (should be quiet from what I've read somewhere)
Case: Antec Performance One P182
PSU: Enermax MODU82+ 625
Speakers: Logitech G51 (bit ugly, but cant seem to find any real contenders)
Keyboard: Microsoft Sidewinder X6 (mainly because i can take the numpad off and safe some space, although I'm second guessing this after measuring it and finding out it only is about 3 or 4 cm less wide then my current keyboard. logitech illuminated looks nice or maybe g15v2)
OS: Vista 64

I'm thinking about swapping the casefans after reading another 182 post here. Probably with the Scythe Slip Stream SY1225SL12L or M.
I'm not sure how to determine what I need though. How many fans would I need for my specs and how much air flow would they need to deliver?
Would I need a fan controller or just swap the fans and that's it?
(Never messed with fans before so any info is welcome)

So what do you think?

kermith
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Post by kermith » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:47 pm

I know people like silence here, but common not one comment?

latest update: After reading an article at anandtech i'm thinking about dropping the raptor and getting a ssd when win7 gets released / prices drop a little bit more (60gb ocz vertex is around same price as 150 vraptor, I'm hoping 120gb will be affordable by then) .
As for gfx: The 280 was gone in no time so 285 it is.

Still no clue about casefans so unless I get some advice here I'm going to have to hope the guys at the shop know enough not to put 3000 fans in there just to be sure i have enough cooling.

shleepy
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Post by shleepy » Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:01 pm

Looks like you have a pretty good system planned.

As far as fans go: You should probably have one Scythe (or Nexus) as an intake and one in the back for an exhaust; you should be fine without the top fan, and you can cover that hole to better control the airflow. That's in addition to the fans on the heatsink, video card, and PSU. Definitely take out the 120mm fan at the very bottom of the case.

You can try undervolting the fans using something basic like THIS, if you're uncomfortable doing mods. In any case, the fans won't be too loud, especially if you're not aiming for absolute silence.

For the video card, you can look into some aftermarket cooler options. I don't know if you would be OK with replacing it yourself, or if you can look into someone doing it for you, though... I'm not sure, but a Thermalright HR-03 GT might just fit on there. Strap a 120mm fan on it, and it could be a good solution. But someone correct me if I'm wrong.

You can look into using one of the better SSD's on the market as a boot drive for maximum performance / silence as far as storage goes. Intel X25 is still the king, and you might be able to get the 80Gb X25-M for around $350 USD. For a little less, you can also pick up a 120Gb OCZ Vertex. Just make sure to not go with a very cheap SSD with the standard JMicron controller.

LM741C
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Post by LM741C » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:12 pm

I have no experience with the graphics card but your combo looks good. The only other thing I would consider is to replace the two case fans, the one on top and the one on the back with something else.
You can control the CPU analog fan using the bios, just be sure to select "analog" instead of "auto" which doesn't appear to work reliably.

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Post by JamieG » Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:21 pm

With a Core i7 system, you might need the top exhaust fan. Nexus and Scythe Slipstream fans don't do so well when mounted horizontally, so I would recommend a Scythe S-flex for a top exhaust. A Nexus and Scythe Slipstream will work fine for the rear exhaust.

You could also go with a Scythe Kama Bay in 3 x Optical bays below the DVD writer. (You could remove the fan and just use it as an intake slot if it is too loud.) If you go with this option, you might be able to avoid adding a top exhaust fan and be able to block that area off instead.

Otherwise, definitely go with a middle-mounted intake fan by Scythe or Nexus and put your hard drives in the lower area with the PSU. Take out the bottom PSU area 120mm fan and tape up the exhaust areas around the PSU. This way the PSU fan will be enough to cool the 2 hard drives in the bottom HDD cage.

From memory, the Noctua 1366 version comes with two fans but it probably isn't necessary to have both mounted. If you wanted to be save a little money, you could re-use one of these fans as an intake or exhaust fan but they are not as effective or as quiet as Nexus and Scythe Slipstream fans.
My PCs:
Main PC (E5200, G31, Lian Li Q07) | Gaming PC (E6850, X38, 5870 Vapor-X, P182) | HTPC (4850e, 780G, 3450, NSK2480B)

InfyMcGirk
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Post by InfyMcGirk » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:09 am

That spec list looks almost exactly what I'm planning, except for the graphics card (I'm thinking 4850 passive perhaps with a low rpm fan strapped to it) and storage (probably an external raid box for me - for performance at the expense of some noise).

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Post by Thoughtsone » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:27 am

Looks pretty good performance wise, especially if you plan on going with SSD. Good luck, let us know how it goes!

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Post by NeilBlanchard » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:34 am

Hi,

You don't need the 625watt PSU -- the new Nexus 430 would be plenty powerful, and quieter.

Why are you choosing the Noctua HSF? There are several others that would probably work better and be quieter.

Be sure to take the aluminum "cooler" thingie off of the Velociraptor. I'd guess that using two 800RPM Slipstreams on the exhausts would be enough air flow. Add a third one as an intake if you need a bit more...
Sincerely, Neil
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kermith
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Post by kermith » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:24 pm

Ok so to be clear: take out the bottom fan, replace 800rpm slipstream at the back, 800rpm s-flex on top (because slipstream doesn't do horizontal well) and/or 800rpm slipstream intake at the front.

Some questions next:
I take it that removing the bottom fan won't work for all psu's, would the Enermax MODU82+ generate enough airflow? (the shop I'll be buying from doesn't appear to sell nexus)

I'll try finding some better pictures of the case tomorrow but it seems like the intake is situated in front of the top hd cage? If that's right it would probably be best to remove that cage and use a slipstream there to get some air to the gfx-card (and due to airflow to the cpu as well?).
Kama Bay would be for the optical bays above that and so would only be useful for the cpu cooler I imagine and therefor not be the best option.
Am I right in thinking this? (no experience here so just going by what info I have)

I chose the Noctua a while back, I think because of some roundup test of i7 hsf's where it came out on top. Can't seem to remember where I read it though... Just googling for Noctua NH-U12P got me a different test on anandtech but it seems to do alright there too.
What would you recommend over the Noctua?

As for the PSU, as I mentioned earlier, I can't get the Nexus. However my original plan had a lower watt version of the modu82+ and people told me it wouldn't be enough for my system... I also seem to remember there being an advantage to having a higher watt psu even if you don't need it all? (ill try to find a source for that tomorrow)

Thanks for all the input!

kermith
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Post by kermith » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:26 pm


shleepy
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Post by shleepy » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:45 pm

MODO82+ does fine without the extra airflow of the bottom-cage fan. I have that exact setup. If you want, feel free to drop it down to the 525W model, or probably even the 425W one. I think that video card of yours will be a big power hog, but you might be fine.

I believe that I had to take out the top HDD cage to (comfortably) fit in my HD4870X2 and an intake fan.

KAMA bay will only fit on the top part, near the optical drives, so that's mostly for CPU cooling, as you mentioned.

As for heatsinks, look into a couple of the Thermalright ones. There's at least one (I think a special version of the Ultra 120 Extreme) that comes with an LGA1366 bolt-thru kit. The best low airflow heatsink is the HR-01 Plus. Methinks that the LGA1366 kit will work for it, too. The kit will cost your around $10.

LM741C
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Post by LM741C » Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:27 pm

NeilBlanchard wrote:You don't need the 625watt PSU -- the new Nexus 430 would be plenty powerful, and quieter.
shleepy wrote:MODO82+ does fine without the extra airflow of the bottom-cage fan. I have that exact setup. If you want, feel free to drop it down to the 525W model, or probably even the 425W one. I think that video card of yours will be a big power hog, but you might be fine.
An i7-920 with the GTX 260 running prime95 and furmark simultaneously will pull 410-430W from the wall. An eighty percent efficiency PSU will translate to approximately 350W drawn from the PSU. Granted, the example is contrived and real world usage will rarely stress the system that much but I would go for at least the 525W just to get additional headroom compared to the 75W the 425W psu would give me.

kermith
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Post by kermith » Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:55 pm

I haven't had time to do much more research today but i did notice that nvidia's official psu requirement for the 285 is 550W http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_ge ... 85_us.html
That doesn't say much unless you know what the rest of their test system is though...
Interesting to see that the stated max gpu temp is the same as the 260 and max power only 1 watt more (and yet they recommend a psu with 50W less for the 260?)

Oh and a colleague mentioned that the (long) gfx card would pretty much block the airflow from the intake fan to the cpu so I should also add the kama bay. Any thoughts on that?

Riffer
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Post by Riffer » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:17 pm

I'm using a Thermalright HR-01 Plus with a 120mmx20mm Yate Loon on my 920 with good result. You need to order the Thermaltake 1366 bolt through kit though. Check clearance as well.

I also went with a XFX 4830 videocard which has a fan. There is a thread somewhere where some guy is having trouble cooling his 4830 passively, so I am pretty happy with my decision. It is the first card I have had which I have kept the fan; even though it isn't dead silent.

edit - I also have the same memory and DVD you are planning, and they are both good.

One thing to watch with the Gigabyte boards is that the top 1 or 2 PCI Express slots are basically useless due to the northbridge heatsink. I needed at least two PCI Express slots, so I ended up with the ECS board.

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Post by FartingBob » Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:24 am

What size monitor will you be using? If you are using that big GPU for gaming i would recomend you get a sound card rather than depend on onboard sound. It'll just make the whole experience as good as possible, and an ok sound card wont add much cost compared with the other componants.
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Post by shleepy » Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:05 pm

FartingBob wrote:What size monitor will you be using? If you are using that big GPU for gaming i would recomend you get a sound card rather than depend on onboard sound. It'll just make the whole experience as good as possible, and an ok sound card wont add much cost compared with the other componants.
Boo! External DAC's FTW!

By the way, I want to take back my statement that the video card might be a big power hog... I read some reviews, and it seems to be somewhere between a GTX260 and GTX280 for power consumption. That's not too bad. It's also at a pretty decent price point. But like others have mentioned, if you don't have a high res monitor and/or don't plan on playing very demanding games, you can downgrade it to something else. A GTX260, perhaps, or an HD4850.

As for Scythe Kama Bay - sure, go ahead. It's probably true that you won't get a lot of airflow from the middle intake fan to go to the heatsink.

kermith
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Post by kermith » Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:33 am

Just noticed that the Noctua NH-U12P was actually reviewed here as well: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article850-page6.html
The Noctua NH-U12P is possibly the best heatsink we've tested thus far, rivaling the Thermalright HR-01 Plus for the CPU cooling crown.
The SE1366 version has 2 fans though and the reviewer thought nexus or scythe fans would be better so I wonder how this version would score. Also do 2 fans mean they can be set to a lower rpm? Is that preferable to just 1 fan but at higher rpm? How hard would it be to replace them with slipstreams?
Any reason to pick a Thermalright HR-01 Plus over the Noctua?

I think I'll go for the 625W anyway. Since I don't believe there is a downside besides the extra cost (right?), I'd rather be sure and leave some headroom for future upgrades.

I'm using a 24" monitor and yeah I plan on gaming on it as well.
It's been my experience that (creative) soundcards seem to produce the most trouble (errors etc) due to bad drivers and/or bad support from games. I've often had to disable hardware sound to fix issues so this time I was thinking if onboard sound can produce 5.1 why bother with another soundcard. Also there seem to be some issues with vista handling sound in a different way then previous windows versions.
To be fair I have had no experience using onboard sound so I don't know if there are any disadvantages associated with that.
I'm open to the idea of buying a soundcard but I need some good reasons before I do.

So I'm now at 1 middle intake fan, 1 kama bay intake and 1 exhaust at the back.
Wasn't there some rule about not having more intake fans then exhausts? Although I guess the gfxcard counts as an exhaust as well...

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Post by shleepy » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:05 am

For the KAMA bay, you should probably use it without a fan. Thus, it's not an "intake" as much as it just allows for more airflow (and has a dust filter) to be sucked through the heatsink fan.

The reason for the HR-01 possibly being a better heatsink for a really, really quiet PC is that it works a little bit better in low airflow conditions. If you look on the second-to-last page of the review, you can see that the HR-01 actually performs a little bit better in all conditions other than fan @ 12V. It's not a huge difference, of course, but just worth noting. As for using a fan on it, the ideal thing would be to take off the 2 standard fans and replace them with undervolted Nexus or Scythe ones.

No, there's no real disadvantage of the 625W PSU. If the price difference isn't big, then it's OK to go with it.

For sound cards, there are 2 main advantages over onboard sound:
1) Lower CPU load. This potentially means higher frame rates for games.
2) Potentially higher sound quality and less "noise" / interference from components. For this, however, some (albeit more expensive) external solutions are better. But you mention that you'll be using 5.1, and most good external DACs are stereo only.

IMO, it's not too important nowadays to have a separate sound card. Try out the onboard sound, and if you're unhappy, get a discrete PCI/PCIe or external one.

kermith
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Post by kermith » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:52 am

Hmm just noticed the store only sells the ultra-120 not the hr-01, so noctua it is I guess.

How hard would it be to replace the fans with scythes (same 800 rpm slipstreams as the casefans or different ones?)afterwards, when everything is already installed? I might just try it with the standard noctua fans to see if it bothers me since it seems a waste to just toss out 2 fans without trying them :)

So Kama without fan + Noctua NH-U12P SE1366 + 800rpm slipstream would keep an i7 cool enough?

I thought lower cpu load hardly makes a difference anymore with current cpu's?
Would you notice the increase in soundquality with the Logitech G51? (not exactly the most pro audio setup)

Good point, it's not exactly hard to add a soundcard later.

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Post by Modo » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:32 pm

I don't think you need an intake fan for this setup, unless you plan to put the hard disks in the upper chamber for some reason. The graphics card has its own airflow-forcing mechanism, and the two top fans will take care of the CPU, so there's no benefit, just more noise.
kermith wrote: I might just try it with the standard noctua fans to see if it bothers me since it seems a waste to just toss out 2 fans without trying them :)
You mean Tri-Cool, right? ;) And yes, that is a good idea, especially with the unknown noise levels of the graphics card.
kermith wrote: I thought lower cpu load hardly makes a difference anymore with current cpu's?
Would you notice the increase in soundquality with the Logitech G51? (not exactly the most pro audio setup)
The added sound quality is usually noticeable even with relatively low-level speakers, and is definately noticeable with most headphones. CPU offloading won't be noticeable, not with that CPU.
NeilBlanchard wrote: You don't need the 625watt PSU -- the new Nexus 430 would be plenty powerful, and quieter.
Assuming a 430W PSU will actually pull that system at full load, it will be close to maxed out, so the fan will be pretty much at full speed. Yes, that's a pretty quiet fan, but is it quiet enough to beat a lower speed fan from a quality 625W PSU? I'm not so sure.
Can you keep it down? I'm having trouble hearing the artillery.

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Post by penguinbelly » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:30 pm

I'd be somewhat uncomfortable with a 430W PSU with that setup..

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Post by garazh » Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:10 pm

hi guys,

i'm a pretty newbie here, so i'm not sure, if it's good to create a new topic, when there's a similar one.

i'm going to assembly my first hand made system (i used to buy dells). it's supposed to look like:

P182
Corsair 650W
GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD4P
i7 920 (or 930, when it's available)
OCZ Platinum 6GB (3 x 2GB) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
3 x SAMSUNG Spinpoint F1 1TB
SAMSUNG 22X DVD Burner SATA
ZALMAN CNPS9900LED 120mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler

i've bought already P182 and PSU Corsair (and installed it), and thinking about the rest. i see, that you guys down here are concerned so much about fans. case fans, CPU fans, GPU fans, chipset fans. i can understand that.

however, what's wrong with the p182 own fans? and why is noctua better than zalman? (i've been always thinking, that zalman made the best fans in the world..)

thanks a lot.

ps. perhaps, i could use ASUS P6T Deluxe V2 LGA 1366 Intel X58 instead of gigabyte.
pps. i don't care about a video card. i got xfx geforce 7600GS fanless, and i'm totally satisfied. for now (later it could be replaced by something more powerful - this is because i've bought a 650W PSU).
ppps. i'm gonna install vista/w7 64bit. the main use is an audio production. not gonna play games.

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Post by NeilBlanchard » Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:45 pm

Hi,

Depending on the rest of the system (the CPU heatsink fan and the video fan in particular), the stock Antec fans on low may be fine for you. Or, they may be too loud, in which case you should peruse the recommended fan articles, and compare the recordings of the various fans.

I think that Noctua has fallen out of favor of many folks, because they are not as quiet (the originals in some back pressure situations, and the newer ones much of the time). Zalman has never made/sold a quiet fan, AFAIK.

Scythe (Slipstream & S-Flex), Nexus, and few others are among the quietest fans.

The P182 has more fans (or places to put fans) than many systems need. And it is a complex case to use, especially for a first time builder. You can often run with just the PSU fan in the lower chamber, and just the rear exhaust in the upper. Sometimes, blocking the upper fan grill helps, as does removing the front filters.
Sincerely, Neil
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Post by garazh » Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:33 am

thanks, neil!

i see i need to dig a lot of info. first, i'm gonna check nexus (there's no any on newegg :( ) and scythe.

kermith
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Post by kermith » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:14 am

http://www.hardocp.com/news.html?news=M ... FzdCwsLDE=
does that mean we'll be able to buy it soon? thought it had been announced a couple of times already.

kermith
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Post by kermith » Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:12 am

I've been wondering: with the improved air intake of the p183 would i still need the kama bay?

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Post by Riffer » Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:35 am

Just an interesting point that I wasn't aware of when I purchased my 920 and DDR-1600 is that you have to overclock the CPU to get the memory working at 1333. By default, the memory works at 1066 for the 920. It was an easy overclock to do, but, if you do not want to deal with overclocking, you can save some money by buying cheaper RAM. I haven't tried it yet, but to achieve 1600 with a 920 would be extremely difficult at the standard 20x multiplier, so make sure you get a retail 920 for the unlocked multiplier so you can try 19 or 18x.

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Post by InfyMcGirk » Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:12 pm

Good tip, thanks. There's a nice guide on overclocking a 920 done by Gigabyte. It plugs their top model mobo, of course, but looks to me like the technique would be similar with any other i7/X58 board:

http://images.tweaktown.com/imagebank/C ... _(ENG).pdf

kermith
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Post by kermith » Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:33 am

Riffer: I just read this http://www.maximumpc.com/article/featur ... y_reported and from what I can tell anything besides the engineering/preview samples are unlocked so with anything you can buy now, you can just set it to 1600 in the bios. Am I missing something?

Riffer
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Post by Riffer » Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:58 am

kermith wrote:Riffer: I just read this http://www.maximumpc.com/article/featur ... y_reported and from what I can tell anything besides the engineering/preview samples are unlocked so with anything you can buy now, you can just set it to 1600 in the bios. Am I missing something?
I understand the OEM chips are still locked. Can anyone confirm?

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