$1000 [Computer]

thedon · Post by **thedon** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:38 am

Well my computer, hopefully close to its finished product, currently looks like this,

CPU: Intel Dual Core E5200 $106 (UMART)
MOB: Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3L $177 (MSY)
GPU: Asus EAH4870 HTDI 512M $339 (MSY) or Sapphire HD4870 512M $333 (UMART)
HDD: WD 500GB $92 (UMART)
RAM: 2 x 2GB DDR2 800 Generic $66
Case: Thermaltake V9 Mid Tower with Window $112 (UMART)
PSU: Antec 500W $69 (UMART)
DRIVE: Pioneer $29 (UMART)

Just not sure about the difference between the Asus and Sapphire GPUs, and which one to pick ?

Is the case and PSU good quality ? And will this CPU be fine or should invest in something a little bit more expensive ?

Can't go really more then i am at the moment, $1000 is where i want to be around.

Thanks for any imput

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:09 am

Greetings & welcome to SPCR!

I have a couple of brief comments: will you be using the stock CPU heatsink & fan?

I would not use a Thermaltake case, period. They almost always put all their effort into making it look a certain way, and very little/no effort to making it work for a quiet machine.

Which model Antec PSU are you considering?

Are you going to be using a 64bit OS, so you can use all of the 4GB of RAM?

blackworx · Post by **blackworx** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:41 am

Hi thedon and welcome!

Doubt the case will be up to much. Thermaltake don't have a particularly good rep round here and the stock fans are guaranteed to be fighter jets. If you're aiming for silence then I'd recommend a slightly cheaper case and some good fans.

I'd also make budget for a good CPU cooler as the stock one doesn't really cut it. Perhaps knock a little off your mobo budget for that? Can't comment on the mobo itself as I don't know anything about it, but I'm guessing you could get equally good performance from a cheaper board (maybe non-P45) and I'm assuming your CPU and GPU choices are pretty much fixed.

Which Antec PSU are you looking at?

EDIT: Oops! I was doing other things - took me so long to post that Neil got there first. So yeah, basically - what he said

thedon · Post by **thedon** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:50 am

Yes i will be using the 64BIT OS.

Was considering the Antec 500W Basiq but heard not the greatest so i am thinking of changing it too
Power Supply CoolerMaster 550W Extreme (ATX) $85

For cases i have previously been looking at the Antec 300, CoolerMaster RC690. Although CoolerMaster sort of pushes the budget.

and Yes was just going to use stock heat sink and fan, as not playing too overclock or anything

JamieG · Post by **JamieG** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:55 am

Looking at Umart's prices, I'm guessing you mean the Antec Basiq 500W PSU. This probably isn't going to be all that quiet.

Consider the Antec 300 case at approximately the same price from UMart. I'd suggest the Xigmatek 1283 CPU cooler from UMart as well. This will help with overclocking your CPU, which you might want to do to keep up with the 4870.

You might want to replace the case fans in the Antec 300 as well with something a bit quieter. www.pccasegear.com.au is a pretty good source for some good fans - see the Recommended list on the main site, but basically Scythe make some really good fans. Yate Loon fans are also available from this site at reasonable prices, just make sure you undervolt them.

You might have to add a bit to your budget to make your build quiet though. Plus, I'm not sure how quiet the 4870 will be.

thedon · Post by **thedon** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:00 am

just saw this case and power supply,

Antec Sonata III MiniTower Case - Piano BlackW/500W PSU

What is the quility of this case and power supply ?
Would this wook for my system ?

blackworx · Post by **blackworx** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:18 am

The case is very good and the bundled supply will be adequate at the very least. Antec tend to bundle decent supplies with their cases. It'll almost certainly be as good as the CoolerMaster you were considering.

Re: the stock cooler - even if you're not overclocking I'd get rid of it, purely from the noise perspective.

EDIT: You might want to check the case for clearance for your 4870 though, bearing in mind any room for the PCI power connectors too.

Ch0z3n · Post by **Ch0z3n** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:05 am

I had an old (read: longer) 9800GTX+ in a Sonata III with only about a cm or 2 to spare. The only reason it fit was because EVGA put the power connectors on the side instead of the back. Hopefully that will give you an idea for clearance.

The Sonata III is a good case but no where near as quiet as like a P182, It doesn't have the padded side panels so you will benefit some from mass-loading. So long as the parts going into it are reasonably quiet and you don't hard mount the hard drives it should be sufficient.

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:59 pm

a 4870 with 1 gig is faster than 512.

i wouldnt bother with a 512 at this point for future proofing with the price difference so small.

I also would not bother with anything besides a e8400

its not a lot higher in price but for gaming its really the thing you want. I would up it if you are spending that much.

sadly, your comput in the USA is like 600 dollars from the ground up.

I would also overclock and slightly overvolt 800 ram to 1066. kinda works better for gaming at higher speeds.

Post by **CA_Steve** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:32 pm

My standard response is: If you tell us what types of applications you wish to run, we can make better suggestions on the hardware selected.

Otherwise, we're just guessing.

thedon · Post by **thedon** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:45 pm

Well hahaha, if makes eaiser then your own computer line up suggestions would be awesome.
As i am sure you have figured i only need a tower. I have a 24" Dell monitor, and Z-2300 Logitech speakers.

Want computer for gaming, although not hard out, prefer HDTV compatiblility. I am after a computer that will last a few years. I know this is next to impossible with technology, so thats why would like computer that can provide upgrades too.

As i know with Windows 7 soon to be released and so too DirectX 11.

My budget i guess can budge, $1000 - 1250 would be best(maybe more, haha). that is in AUS. and yes i know that exchange rate sucks we did catch up to you guys but back to shit now

thedon · Post by **thedon** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:22 pm

Case: Antec Mini P180
PSU: Power Supply CoolerMaster 550W
MOB: Gigabyte GA-EP45T-UD3LR P45+ICH10 FSB1600 DDR3 SATA2 GbN RAID
CPU: Intel ATX E8400 CORE 2 DUO /3.0GHz/6MB/1333FSB/LGA775
GPU: Sapphire HD4870 512M
RAM: GSkill 4G(2x2G) DDR3 1333 PC10666
DRIVE: Pioneer DVR-216BK 20x Dual Black
HDD: WD 500G

Are all these compatible ? Do i need a better quility or more Watt PSU ?

Thanks for all feedback

Post by **CA_Steve** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:41 pm

Your system power needs are similar to mine....you might get up to 225W while gaming. I don't have any info on the CoolerMaster PSU to say whether it's a good or bad choice. 500W-ish is a good spot to be if you never want the PSU fan to ramp up to audible (assuming a decent PSU to start with).

e8400 is the sweet spot for reasonably priced performance gaming. Most games use 2 cores. Many games tend to run faster with higher CPU clock rates...all depends on the games you play. When DirectX 11 comes out end of 2009, more games will start development with >2 cores in mind as it will be easier to work with...but that means quad core won't be in demand until end 2010 or so...and probably not in big use until 2011.

Note that it has 9x bus/core ratio. So, for stock 3GHz, memory is only running at 667MHz for 1:1 ratio. For 3.6GHz OC, memory is still only 800MHz....which leads to:

Why not get the EP45-UD3P instead? Stick with some tight timing DDR2 and save money on both mobo and memory.

24" Dell is 1920x1200? HD4870 is a good choice for gaming. I leave it to others to point you to a quiet version. For some games, the 1GB memory version can increase your minimum fps by 20% and ave fps by 10-15%. Does it fit in the Mini P180?

HDD - go for the WD640AAKS instead. A few more bucks, but faster and a tad quieter.

ACook · Post by **ACook** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:37 am

You're willing to spend $300+ on a gfx-card that by default isn't future proof.

Don't skimp on the psu, get one of the recommended list - perhaps the Corsair HX520 for a nice modular one, or any of the sub-600W models there.

The PSU will last you twice as long as that gfx-card

I agree with the poster above, unless you're really planning on SLI/Crossfire, and all signs point to that being a more and more silly moneywasting affair, go for the P or R versions of that board, which is indeed a very nice stable design made for some easy overclocking. coupled with the 8400 you'll be getting much more performance for your $

QuietOC · Post by **QuietOC** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:49 am

thedon wrote:Case: Antec Mini P180
PSU: Power Supply CoolerMaster 550W
MOB: Gigabyte GA-EP45T-UD3LR P45+ICH10 FSB1600 DDR3 SATA2 GbN RAID
CPU: Intel ATX E8400 CORE 2 DUO /3.0GHz/6MB/1333FSB/LGA775
GPU: Sapphire HD4870 512M
RAM: GSkill 4G(2x2G) DDR3 1333 PC10666
DRIVE: Pioneer DVR-216BK 20x Dual Black
HDD: WD 500G

Are all these compatible ? Do i need a better quility or more Watt PSU ?

No, this is a rather low wattage system (other than the HD 4870.) It would be fine with a 250W PS. I have a crappy Cooler Master PS, and I wouldn't recommend them as a brand, but it would probably work fine.

CA_Steve wrote:500W-ish is a good spot to be if you never want the PSU fan to ramp up to audible (assuming a decent PSU to start with).

Bad advice. I keep seeing this myth repeated. Wattage rating has nothing to do with PS fan controllers. My cheap 300W In Wins ramp slower than my 430W Cooler Master. The PS fan has to cool the waste heat of the PS, which has to do with efficiency and load--not maximum load rating. Don't expect a crappy 550W PS to be any better than a crappy 250W PS as noise--if anything the higher wattage model will be worse.

The motherboard is probably okay, but doesn't really offer anything over what much cheaper motherboards can provide. Doesn't the Mini P180 only accept micro ATX motherboards?

The WD 500GB seems like a poor choice. Step up to a WD6400AAKS.

The E8400 is good, but if you plan to overclock it won't be a whole lot faster than the E5200. The E5200 can be difficult to overclock though. The E7x00 series are a nice compromise.

There's no real advantage to DDR3 over DDR2. Get whichever is cheapest. Core 2 Duos can't even use DDR2 800 effectively due to the slow FSB. Major FSB overclocking is needed to make any use of any faster memory.

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:12 am

1066-1200mhz speed ram has a noticable difference in gaming and he's gaming.

also, the extra cache of the e8xxx chips are used in gaming as well.

with i7 and then slightly slower i5 comming out, you cant give sub optimal advice to a gamer buying today. e8000 series overclocks with minimal effort and no voltage increase.

QuietOC · Post by **QuietOC** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:02 am

~El~Jefe~ wrote:1066-1200mhz speed ram has a noticable difference in gaming and he's gaming.

No. Core 2 Duo FSB bandwidth << bandwidth dual channel DDR2 800. The only thing you can do is reduce latencies and you can do that with slower memory too.

Increasing L2 cache size has diminishing benefits, and most games are hardly ever CPU limited with any Core 2 Duo anyway. Yes, the 6MB Wolfdale is slightly better than 3MB is slightly better than 2MB--and I don't recommend the older 1MB/512kB Conroes (although my 3.2GHz E2140 was plenty fast.)

Post by **CA_Steve** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:09 pm

QuietOC wrote:
CA_Steve wrote:500W-ish is a good spot to be if you never want the PSU fan to ramp up to audible (assuming a decent PSU to start with).
Bad advice. I keep seeing this myth repeated. Wattage rating has nothing to do with PS fan controllers. My cheap 300W In Wins ramp slower than my 430W Cooler Master. The PS fan has to cool the waste heat of the PS, which has to do with efficiency and load--not maximum load rating. Don't expect a crappy 550W PS to be any better than a crappy 250W PS as noise--if anything the higher wattage model will be worse.

Heh. I guess my frame of mind is that thedon will aim for an 80+ PSU. Otherwise, why ask us and not the dudes over at behemoth_psus_help_warm_the_planet.com? Given that baseline, the waste heat and power from a 500W PSU running 80% efficiency at 225W load vs a 300W PSU running 80% efficient at 225W load is the same. 80% is 80%...

So,
- if the price difference is small, why get a PSU that may be running close to it's rated load? Why not get something with a little more headroom. My PSUs tend to be used/reused for many years as I upgrade the other components.
- Granted, every PSU model's fan controller has it's own algorithm for how/when it ramps up..and even then, you have to look at the SPL rating for your particular power range. But, take a look at the highly rated 80+ PSUs reviewed here and how their SPL varies with % load. The 50% guideline is still a good starting point.

QuietOC · Post by **QuietOC** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:34 pm

CA_Steve wrote:Heh. I guess my frame of mind is that thedon will aim for an 80+ PSU. Otherwise, why ask us and not the dudes over at behemoth_psus_help_warm_the_planet.com? Given that baseline, the waste heat and power from a 500W PSU running 80% efficiency at 225W load vs a 300W PSU running 80% efficient at 225W load is the same. 80% is 80%...

So,
- if the price difference is small, why get a PSU that may be running close to it's rated load?

PS efficiency at system idle is more important than full system load (which is hardly ever needed). Low Wattage PSes tend to have higher efficiency at low loads.

The 80+ thing is rather arbitrary and not very significant. It makes no sense when 79% efficient 300W PS is $20 and the 80+ >500W one is $100. Especially when several components in the system with the more expensive supply use more energy then they need to (*cough* Intel P45 chipset.)

So, you want to save energy? the power supply is the least important:

1) low wattage CPU + video card (The HD 4870???)
2) low wattage drives (no internal opticals, etc.)
3) motherboard with low wattage chipset, fewer phase VRM, less frills

Post by **CA_Steve** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:12 pm

this is heading off track. Let's agree to disagee and let the guy get back to his build.

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:33 am

QuietOC wrote:
~El~Jefe~ wrote:1066-1200mhz speed ram has a noticable difference in gaming and he's gaming.
No. Core 2 Duo FSB bandwidth << bandwidth dual channel DDR2 800. The only thing you can do is reduce latencies and you can do that with slower memory too.

Increasing L2 cache size has diminishing benefits, and most games are hardly ever CPU limited with any Core 2 Duo anyway. Yes, the 6MB Wolfdale is slightly better than 3MB is slightly better than 2MB--and I don't recommend the older 1MB/512kB Conroes (although my 3.2GHz E2140 was plenty fast.)

every increment in mhz on the ram is effective. If you get an e8400 though. My board has auto settings to utilize the speed increase.

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$1000 [Computer]

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