System dead? Your opinion please!

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Trav1s
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Location: CR, IA

System dead? Your opinion please!

Post by Trav1s » Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:34 am

I built a Shuttle KPC K45 last fall for my office at the church and it has been fine until I decided to swap the a430 1.8 Celeron for an new one... e5200. The machine worked great when I shut it down but will not restart.

I have taken the following steps to try to isolate the problems...

1. Disconnected the HD
2. Removed memory
3. Put the Celeron 430 back in.
4. Reset bios
5. Removed bios battery and reinstalled it
6. Tried PCI video card on DVI and VGA output

All of these yielded the same result: The power comes on, HD and fans spin up as expected but the display will not come on (both onboard and additional video card)

Thanks in advance for your help!
Travis

stromgald
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Post by stromgald » Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:37 am

You've done most of what you can I think. A couple pieces of advice:

Keep the system minimalist until you get a POST screen. This means, no HDDs connected, only one stick of RAM, no PCI/AGP/PCIe cards installed. Run just off the on-board video.

Reset the BIOS. Try booting up.

Next, the only thing you can do is swap out parts. Try different RAM sticks if you have compatible RAM. Try the different processors (make sure they're installed correctly!). Get a PSU from a working computer and hook it up.


The only reasons I can think of for this kind of failure is a bad CPU (incorrect installation or failed part), really bad RAM that the system doesn't recognize or shorts out, bad PSU, and bad motherboard. You can't fix or replace the motherboard (I think) so that's a worse case scenario, and its hard to diagnose, so you just have to eliminate the other possibilities (CPU, RAM, PSU).

I had a similar issue before with a full-tower desktop/server system. It turned out that the Enermax PSU wasn't delivering stable power.

Trav1s
Posts: 259
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Location: CR, IA

Post by Trav1s » Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:59 am

Thanks and I have removed things more since the post. Still the same thing which points me back to the board. Via google I found similar issues with these barebones.

I think I am going to cut my loss and build a mATX system to replace it.

Any other suggestions would be valued.

Travis

Riffer
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Location: Toronto, Canada

Post by Riffer » Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:42 pm

Board is dead. RMA if still under warranty (and you want to use another one of these boards).

that Linux guy
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Location: In the server room, playing Trackmania

Post by that Linux guy » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:10 pm

Wait, what kind of mouse do you have? :lol:

It doesn't sound like a PSU issue. If it were, you'd either smell something very funky and/or, it most likely won't even turn on. Do what Strom mentioned, and if it's still giving you issues, start swapping parts.

DanceMan
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Post by DanceMan » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:10 pm

In my experience bad boards and bad cpus will boot (start the psu, fans run, but no display) but will not shut down from the power on button and have to be stopped by the switch on the psu.
I've read that when trying to guess whether it's the cpu or motherboard, look at the leds on the keyboard. If they flash once during the boot, the board is probably okay.
I test new or used boards and cpus by booting with the minimum parts connected: board loose on a nonconductive surface (folded newspaper) with cpu, hsf, ram, video card (if no onboard) and monitor, and a keyboard (PS/2 if possible). To start you can use a switch on the pins or a momentary touch with a jumper. Be careful of shorting on other pins if you resort to starting with a screwdriver or other metal object.
It saves time if a new board has problems, and a dead board will be removed before tossing anyway. And if a screw has rolled under the board or there's a misplaced standoff, booting loose will negate those problems.

Since parts can easily be jostled while changing the cpu and hsf, you have removed and reinserted the ram and any cards and power connectors, of course.

that Linux guy
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Location: In the server room, playing Trackmania

Post by that Linux guy » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:33 pm

Trav, I think I figured out your problem. The Intel 945 series chipsets aren't compatible with 45nm chips.

Image

Trav1s
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Location: CR, IA

Post by Trav1s » Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:09 pm

But... but...but...

According to Shuttle... the e5200 does work and I have read of others using them in the little cube.


http://global.shuttle.com/support_list03.jsp?PI=1068

that Linux guy
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Post by that Linux guy » Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:46 pm

Trav1s wrote:But... but...but...

According to Shuttle... the e5200 does work and I have read of others using them in the little cube.


http://global.shuttle.com/support_list03.jsp?PI=1068
I couldn't find any specific info on the 945GC, but after a couple google searches, I came across the list I posted. I'm not saying it won't work, stop trying.

That's weird how Intel and Shuttle say two different things... sort of.

I'd give shuttle a call.

Trav1s
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Location: CR, IA

Post by Trav1s » Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:53 pm

I do plan on calling them either tomorrow or Monday. I think the board is toast...

mackworth
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Location: US

Post by mackworth » Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:19 pm

Do you have the latest bios? Is it possible a new bios is needed to support that CPU?

"Remarks:K45 BOM 15 or later could support CPU E5200. MotherBoard's PCB version:FM10 V1.X
Remarks:: MotherBoard's PCB version:FM10 V1.X
Remarks::This model doesn't have PCI-e and AGP interface MotherBoard's PCB version:FM10 V1.X
Remarks:: "

Trav1s
Posts: 259
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Location: CR, IA

Post by Trav1s » Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:22 pm

Could be the older bios but I bought this machine in October and the other one (Hackintosh) in November.

But even going back to the 430 celeron it does not post. :?

Arvo
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Post by Arvo » Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:49 am

* I know that this sounds silly, but have you tried another monitor?
* Does your motherboard have speaker connected? If yes, does it emit any beeps while booting?
* You said HDD spins up. Does it start seeking (like while normal startup)?
* I hope I did understand correctly - yuo have tried booting up without any RAM on borad. If not, then try - I've cured one motherbord this way.
* Have you tried another PSU?

stromgald
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Post by stromgald » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:10 am

Arvo wrote:* Have you tried another PSU?
Yeah. I've fixed one computer that wouldn't post because of this. It might seem like a PSU failure wouldn't allow the fans or hard disk to spin up, but if the voltages/signals to the CPU are off, this will happen. I had only tried swapping the PSU as a last ditch effort (because I couldn't think of how a PSU failure would stop the mobo and not the HDD and fans) and it worked.

Trav1s
Posts: 259
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Location: CR, IA

Post by Trav1s » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:25 am

Thanks for the next round of suggestions. I will give those a try tomorrow. :wink:

Trav1s
Posts: 259
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2008 12:33 pm
Location: CR, IA

Post by Trav1s » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:01 am

Ok... here are all the steps I have taken to isolate the problem.

1. Makes no sound during power on. The K45 does NOT have an external speaker and the external speakers produce sound.

2. I have powered up the machine with processor(old and new)/memory, with processor/no memory, with memory only. Still the same behavior... No video display.

3. I have tried two different monitors with various combos mentioned above.

4. Swapped power supplies without success

5. HD spins up but does not seek like it did before.

6. Reset bios by jumpers and also tired removing the battery.

Not sure on the bios, can't get the machine up to check version.

I will give them a call and see what I need to do to get a replacement board as it is covered by a 1 yr warranty.

Other than this, I have been quite happy with these little boxes. The other k45 (using right now) is a sweet little hackintosh :wink:

Plekto
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Post by Plekto » Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:40 pm

No sound, solid green light, no video....

90% likely it's a fried CPU. If it was a known good CPU before, then the swap blew up something on the MB.

Trav1s
Posts: 259
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2008 12:33 pm
Location: CR, IA

Post by Trav1s » Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:55 pm

The machine worked fine before a swap to the NEW e5200 and would not power up. Swapped back the 430 celery and same thing. I will call Shuttle tomorrow... I forgot to do it today.

Riffer
Posts: 517
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Location: Toronto, Canada

Post by Riffer » Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:19 pm

Check for bent pins in the socket.

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