Final proposal for budget quietness (revised)

[LodeHacker]

First and foremost, I'm sorry for bad management of posts here; please don't hate me for it! Now on to the actual subject; I present to you the final proposal for budget quietness:

Motherboard - AsRock G41M-LE - ~55e -> ASUS P5Q-E - ~130e
PSU - Nexus VALUE 430 - ~65e
CPU - Intel Pentium Dual-Core E5200 - ~60e
Graphics card - NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS - ~30e
HDD - Western Digital WD5000BEVT - ~85e -> Samsung 500GB EcoGreen F2 (HD502HI) - ~50e
CD/DVD - Samsung SH-S223Q - ~25e
Case - Antec Mini P180 - ~110e -> Antec SOLO - ~85e
RAM - Have lots of unused DDR2 modules...
----------
Total ~445e + shipping ~20e = ~465e (a bit above my budget, but I can handle it)

Any parts where I could improve? Thanks!

[thejamppa]

P180 mini is nearly as big as is regular ATX case or Solo, has big top fan that cannot be silenced when your system comes very quiet unless removing it.

I personally say think bit the P180 mini. Solo might be better alternative while being FULL ATX its still nearly same size than P180 mini, truely a quiet case and has pure lines and IMHO can hold looking very well its own

Antec Mini P180:
• 17.1"(H) x 8.3"(W) x 17.2"(D)
• 43.5cm(H) x 21.2cm(W) x 43.6cm(D)

Solo:
- 17" (H) x 8.1" (W) x 18.5" (D)
- 43.18cm (H) x 20.57cm (W) x 47cm (D)

[loimlo]

Using a quiet 3.5' 5400RPM HDD like WD Green, Samsung F2 EcoGreen, or Hitachi P7K500 wouldn't be louder than sticking with a quiet 5400RPM 2.5' HDD like WD Scorpio Blue. Besides, 3.5' HDD tends to outperform 2.5' counterpart and cost a lot less compared to 2.5' equivalent. I highly suggest 5400RPM 3.5' HDD for you.

[LodeHacker]

I personally say think bit the P180 mini.

Trust me, it was really hard to find a good case for this project. Even the Mini P180 was chosen as a compromise. I do have an option similar to the Antec SOLO though, namely to go for the Sonata Designer 500. Bundled with a EarthWatts 500W it will be much cheaper than the Mini P180 + VALUE 430. Essentially the Designer is a white SOLO, making it a great choice as a PC case, but I'm not that sure about the EarthWatts PSU. Is it quiet enough? If you look closely enough, I chose a passively cooled graphics card and a 5400RPM 2.5" HDD (will be suspended). For the CPU cooler I have planned any heat sink with that I can use my fan of choice. Putting it all together this build could be inaudible, but going for the Sonata Designer means to go for the EarthWatts PSU. What do you think? Thanks!

Using a quiet 3.5' 5400RPM HDD like WD Green, Samsung F2 EcoGreen, or Hitachi P7K500 wouldn't be louder than sticking with a quiet 5400RPM 2.5' HDD like WD Scorpio Blue. Besides, 3.5' HDD tends to outperform 2.5' counterpart and cost a lot less compared to 2.5' equivalent. I highly suggest 5400RPM 3.5' HDD for you.

I'll need to reconsider this as at the moment the idea was to suspend the 2.5" HDD in a 3.5" bay. I also prefer not to mod the case to allow for different options for HDD suspension.

[60beetle60]

Using a quiet 3.5' 5400RPM HDD like WD Green, Samsung F2 EcoGreen, or Hitachi P7K500 wouldn't be louder than sticking with a quiet 5400RPM 2.5' HDD like WD Scorpio Blue. Besides, 3.5' HDD tends to outperform 2.5' counterpart and cost a lot less compared to 2.5' equivalent. I highly suggest 5400RPM 3.5' HDD for you.

I'll need to reconsider this as at the moment the idea was to suspend the 2.5" HDD in a 3.5" bay. I also prefer not to mod the case to allow for different options for HDD suspension.

If you're after hdd suspension the Solo/Sonata had a suspension system built in that fits 3x3.5" drives. Prices for a Solo are generally pretty similar to that of the mini p180 so they're a good alternative

[danimal]

so now you want to overclock?? you just told us in the other thread that "I don't want/need more CPU power, so won't gain anything from overclocking."

i got the sonata designer 500 for $75, in a frys.com blowout, and the included power supply is not impressive at all... if you shine a flashlight into the unit, you can see a giant gap between the top of the heat sinks and the top of the cage, it's as if antec took one of their 120mm fan designs and put a smaller cheaper fan in it... there is no plastic shielding on the case, where the bundled wiring comes out, it's just a bare rolled metal edge against wire... so consequently the plastic covering on the wires is totally dented and thin where it's been rubbing against that case edge during shipping.

the solo case is very thick and heavy-duty, with mass-loaded material on the side panel, but like most solos, the airflow is crippled because of the small fans in front, and the tiny vents on the side... the p18x cases have longer vents on one side, a much better case design, and the door opens up for easy filter cleaning.

the solo designer 500 looks to be an xlnt case for low-noise computing, but it's not the best choice for serious computing that requires airflow to keep multiple components cool... get a better case if you want to overclock.

[mark19891989]

I would like to recommend this case: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/134831

i use it in my desktop, it has 3 3.5" bays (listing says 2, but there is another 1 under the cd bay.

the psu that comes with it is pretty noisy, so you wont want that.

it look nice, and has a pretty small foot print.

[LodeHacker]

so now you want to overclock?? you just told us in the other thread that "I don't want/need more CPU power, so won't gain anything from overclocking."

No, this is a different build ;P I only said the CPU is said to be the overclocking king and if that doesn't tell how good value it is then I don't know what is a good value CPU Hmmm your points make my shy away from all Antec, should I just redo the proposed microATX for a Mini-ITX?

I would like to recommend this case: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/134831

This will be a home PC, I don't want to scare away any family members! Not to be mean, but in other words that's one ugly case! On the other hand I like white PC cases, so that makes us two crazy

[mark19891989]

so now you want to overclock?? you just told us in the other thread that "I don't want/need more CPU power, so won't gain anything from overclocking."

No, this is a different build ;P I only said the CPU is said to be the overclocking king and if that doesn't tell how good value it is then I don't know what is a good value CPU Hmmm your points make my shy away from all Antec, should I just redo the proposed microATX for a Mini-ITX?

I would like to recommend this case: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/134831

This will be a home PC, I don't want to scare away any family members! Not to be mean, but in other words that's one ugly case! On the other hand I like white PC cases, so that makes us two crazy

lol, the pics dont do that case justic. cases are a very personal thing, i dont like white cases my self, usualy go for back.

[LodeHacker]

Well if the picture doesn't do the case justice then the name doesn't either: "Shiny Piano Black/Red Super Slim Micro ATX Mini Tower Case".

[hybrid2d4x4]

Using a quiet 3.5' 5400RPM HDD like WD Green, Samsung F2 EcoGreen, or Hitachi P7K500 wouldn't be louder than sticking with a quiet 5400RPM 2.5' HDD like WD Scorpio Blue. Besides, 3.5' HDD tends to outperform 2.5' counterpart and cost a lot less compared to 2.5' equivalent. I highly suggest 5400RPM 3.5' HDD for you.

I'll need to reconsider this as at the moment the idea was to suspend the 2.5" HDD in a 3.5" bay. I also prefer not to mod the case to allow for different options for HDD suspension.

I second the 3.5" HDD idea- just suspend it in a 5.25" bay! Or remove the 3.5" cage(s) and suspend it below the 5.25" cage.

[LodeHacker]

I revised the list basing on suggestions made here. First and foremost I ditched the WD5000BEVT for the single platter Samsung. As this is a 3.5" HDD and I wanted to suspend it, I made the decision to go for the Antec SOLO, so I can use the integrated HDD suspension system. Finally, the Antec SOLO is a full ATX case, so I did not want to limit myself to Micro-ATX and chose an expensive motherboard from ASUS. It adds in a lot of improvements over the AsRock, but the EPU engine is most interesting. If you evaluate my choices you'll see I favor "green" products, so I am hoping to ditch off a few watts with the EPU engine.

Any ideas on how to improve this or is there something I should know? Any suggestions are welcome!

[DanceMan]

Another vote confirming your 3.5" hdd choice. You can still suspend it. It doesn't have to be horizontal. You can hang it vertically, enabling a placement in the 3.5" drive space in the bottom front.

[LodeHacker]

Another vote confirming your 3.5" hdd choice. You can still suspend it. It doesn't have to be horizontal. You can hang it vertically, enabling a placement in the 3.5" drive space in the bottom front.

Any ideas on how to improve the build or experience with the ASUS motherboard? Thanks for the help so far!

[Shamgar]

LodeHacker, I have an AMD system in a Solo that I am considering converting to an Intel system. (I won't explain why here.) It will be for all around use except for gaming (since I don't). So I am interested in how you go with your system proposal .

I already have Case, PSU, HDD, RAM, DVD-R, case fans. I would need a new Intel chipset MB, Intel CPU and a PCI-e graphics card.

Regarding ASUS motherboard, I have not had much experience with ASUS over the years. Only one nForce1 board that died after a few months. ASUS in the past has been reputably more reliable and stable, but things have shifted in the last 2-3 years and Gigabyte is making better quality and value boards than ASUS now IMO. This is just from what I read and speculate, not on hands on experience, so make of it what you will.

I am considering a Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R/P board. This would be a big jump for me seeing as I have always used fairly budget boards.

The Intel E5200 is excellent value at the moment. But it doesn't have virtualisation technology. The E6300 does. Stepping up to E8000 series will give you VT and bigger L2 cache, but that might be too much for your proposed requirements. I am in a similar situation: would like the power and features of an E8400 when I need it but don't necessarily do most of the time. Like the value of E5200 but don't want to be stuck with a stripped down CPU.

I am also deciding between Nvidia GF8400 GS and ATI Radeon HD4350-4670. I personally prefer ATI as that is what I've mostly used. Nvidia's image quality in the old days was much poorer than ATI but that was long ago. Anyone have any data on 8400GS vs HD4350 power draw?

The Samsung F2 HD502HI is an excellent choice which I am also considering. No problem suspending it in the Solo or mounting it on the trays if you plan on moving your computer around.

[Cistron]

If you evaluate my choices you'll see I favor "green" products

Then you should ditch the discrete graphics card and revert to an IGP solution. Are you actually going to use all the slots of the mATX board?

[LodeHacker]

IGP? Look, I'm green to some point, but I will not limit myself to IGP. The NVIDIA was chosen for a reason; it's the cheapest card with VDPAU support on Linux.

Shamgar, you say Gigabyte makes good quality boards? They are plain ugly O_O

[hybrid2d4x4]

"but I will not limit myself to IGP"?

FYI:

GeForce 8400 GS
# Cores 16
Core Clock (MHz) 450
Shader Clock (MHz) 900
Memory Clock (MHz) 400
Memory Amount 256MB
Memory Interface 64-bit
Memory Bandwidth (GB/sec) 6.4
Texture Fill Rate (billion/sec) 3.6


Geforce 9400 \\ 9300 (IGPs)
Graphics Cores 16 \\ 16
Core/Shader Clocks 580/1400 MHz \\ 450/1200 MHz
Texture Fill Rate 3.6 Billion/second \\ 3.6 Billion/second
RAMDACs 400 MHz 400 MHz
Mem Interface (in dual channel mode) 128bit

Long story short:
These IGPs are based off of the same core as the 8400gs, but are built at a better mfg process (65nm vs 80 for the GS). The 9300 is slightly faster due to it's shader clock and the 9400 makes the gap bigger. They have the same support in Linux afaik. The boards cost is more than your initial mobo choice, but similar to your P5Q. Asus makes a nice GF9300 board since you don't like the Gigabytes, and is fully featured minus firewire.

Plus, if you go the ATX+discrete card route, you'll have to turn in your "green" badge

[LodeHacker]

It's not about the performance or VDPAU support in the end. It's about the connections. Something you are overlooking is that a discrete card has TV out. Very few motherboards today have TV out, no matter what IGP is used, because most go for HDMI. I don't have an HDMI capable TV, but use TV out on most PCs here to stream video directly to our home theatre A/V receiver. Also, most motherboards I've configured did not allow me to run the IGP in tandem with a discrete graphics card, so there's no possibility of chaining an IGP with a discrete card to obtain multiple outputs (think multi display setup). Given these facts I'm not willing to invest in a board with an IGP. By choosing to do so many other choices open up, because should I want to go for an IGP, VDPAU support comes in. Just like you said, GeForce 9300/9400 have VDPAU support, but there are actually very few motherboards that have one of the two. I don't really care whether the 9300/9400 is better than the 8400GS, because I am not seeking gaming performance. Desktop use and video processing is all I'm going to do with the GeForce.


Also, I hate Gigabyte because their motherboards are UGLY. Not only do most of their motherboards have a bad board layout (in my opinion at least) but they use the UGLIEST colors for anything possible! I need to vomit just by looking at the SATA ports or the RAM slots in this motherboard: http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/FileList/Ima ... 3r_big.jpg

EDIT: Also, you are VERY uninformed. The G98 core based 8400GS (which I am getting) is based on a 65nm fabrication process as well.

[Shamgar]

LodeHacker, I said Gigabyte is making better quality and better value boards than ASUS at this time. Quality of components, choice of chipsets, better efficiency, more features, cheaper... I never mentioned anything about colours or board layout. You could easily say the reverse re: ASUS. What's with ASUS placing the ATX power connector right in the middle (worst position) on so many of their boards? Some designer playing a cruel joke? Personally, I don't mind the Gigabyte colours and I think their layout is fine in most respects. ASUS' brown and black isn't exactly pretty. But that's up to personal preference I suppose.

C'mon, once you get everything installed, how often do you really need to look at the motherboard and say, "Man, I wish those SATA ports were blue/red/other colour instead of yellow-orange."

Anyway, I agree with you on not wanting to be "limited" to an IGP. But a good, budget, low power discrete card can be hard to find.

[LodeHacker]

LodeHacker, I said Gigabyte is making better quality and better value boards than ASUS at this time. Quality of components, choice of chipsets, better efficiency, more features, cheaper... I never mentioned anything about colours or board layout.

I apologize for sounding a bit too attacking. I tend to link quality with style as in higher quality equals more beautiful design. I love black especially, which was one reason to go for ASUS. I do agree some of their boards suck by having very odd placement for some connectors like the 24-pin power connector. That said though Gigabyte has beautiful layouts as well, but I really hate the colors used in their motherboards.

C'mon, once you get everything installed, how often do you really need to look at the motherboard and say, "Man, I wish those SATA ports were blue/red/other colour instead of yellow-orange."

More often than you think. I tend to fiddle around with my PC twice a month or so. Trying out new fans, trying more cable management, occasionally upgrade a component or two, etcetera. I do it a lot and the PC is basically my hobby after music. I care about style a lot as well. I follow casual fashion, wear quality clothes and put high value on personal health. A PC is not only a PC to me. The colors are not to my liking, Gigabyte automatically on my blacklist.

Anyway, I agree with you on not wanting to be "limited" to an IGP. But a good, budget, low power discrete card can be hard to find.

The NVIDIA 8400GS is at the moment the best candidate being very cheap and capable of bringing HD video acceleration to my Linux desktop. It also has TV output, which is becoming an essential point for this build. A little bit more power wouldn't hurt, but as it stands now it is on par with a GeForce 6600, which should be sufficient for any, but the most demanding games.

[Shamgar]

LodeHacker, apologies accepted . I completely understand your position on aesthetics. Believe me, I am a VERY pedantic and obsessive person when it comes to these things also. But I have tried to control this characteristic because it causes me too much heartache and wasted time and money.

I also think Gigabyte should ditch the toystore looks. Keep their overall character, but change the design a little. It hasn't changed for... since they started.

Another thing I dislike is how both Gigabyte and ASUS don't include all the cables, brackets and accessories in the box. I have a budget EPOX nForce2 board that included Everything except for S/PDIF out bracket which I didn't need anyway.

I was once into making tracks and simple DAW stuff, and I looked for ASUS boards since they were the reliable standard. I always dreamt of building and owning my own DAW and home music studio. But that is now a passing dream and not that important to me anymore. Nowadays, I just focus on my writing vocation/profession and everyday PC tasks.

I fiddle around with my PCs a lot too. I consider it a "necessary hobby". So much that it annoys my family members. But after a while, I stop caring about the colours and how nice the anodised heatsinks look while the light strikes it at the right angle. Maybe I am just getting old(er).

I'll have a look at the GeForce 8400GS. It's a clearance card where I live so if I want it I need to be quick. It's either this or the Radeon HD4350. I haven't used Nvidia GPU since the nForce1 and GF MX days so I don't know how it is compared to ATI now. Catalyst can be a pain to get working and the software can be annoying but simple enough, but I usually disable all graphics card services on startup except for the driver.

[LodeHacker]

Finally someone agrees with me regarding Gigabyte's "toystore" look (that sums it up to the point ). I have started this "hobby" since 3-years, aesthetics still top priority. Too bad that almost exclusively "budget" equals missing cables/brackets, as if motherboard manufacturers would save money with it; we are talking about sub $5 stuff... go figure

I feel sorry for you that you couldn't make your dream reality. Should you ever get the passion for a personal DAW again, let me know! I'm sorry, but I must brag about my current setup: "asus wokstation mothaboord with kubasee!!!1!11! tru h4x!!!" (don't hate me for this )

Regarding ATi Catalyst, I read it is possible to just install the driver without Catalyst. Have you tried doing that? Essentially every OEM PC I've seen with a Radeon has only the driver installed, no Catalyst. About the NVIDIA, I've been loyal to NVIDIA since I bought my first PC with a GeForce 7600GT. It all started from there, love at first sight I guess

[Shamgar]

I started computing "hobby" in the early 1990s, got interested in DAW in late 1990s, and finally into silencing in 2003. In that time, I have always owned budget computers. Never have I owned a computer that I was really proud of or did exactly what I wanted to achieve. But as a saying goes, there is always another opportunity down the road.

My dream was to own two dedicated PCs: an everyday computer for my writing and creativity work; another one as a home DAW. Things were very expensive in those days, and I never really had the income; so I improvised and used budget and throwaway parts.

Computer components as well as audio gear is ridiculously affordable for the home user these days, so the dream is very much possible. With a good audio interface and software, it is possible now to do things that would have cost tens of thousands a decade ago. But Life, as well as my music tastes have changed a lot over the years, so this "dream" is not as necessary as it used to be. However, the thought is provoking .

I install Catalyst primarily to turn the gamma level down. It is way too high on default. As I have optical problems, I need to tune my display settings finely, and even then it's still problematic. I install Catalyst also because I think I have to. It doesn't seem right without it... somehow.

I am also somewhat a supporter of ATI and AMD, since they have served me well for many years, albeit with many heartaches. Think of it as a relationship you really have to fight for and work at, as opposed to a smooth sailing one which brings no battles.

Geforce MX used to kill my eyes with blurry text and inferior image quality. When I installed an ATI Radeon 9200 5 years ago, text was amazingly sharp and black on my CRT and photos looked much better. Since I spend most of my time in 2D and write lots of text, this is important to me. I just remember that experience, so I favour ATI. Especially now that I own an IPS panel monitor, this feature is a high priority. I don't care so much about gaming or video performance. But supposed favouritism and loyalties can change if the hardware meets my personal requirements.

[LodeHacker]

But as a saying goes, there is always another opportunity down the road.

There is, but I don't want to wait for the time to come. My way of achieving things is to assume "now" is the time.

Things were very expensive in those days, and I never really had the income; so I improvised and used budget and throwaway parts.

Same here, actually. Only key components like the motherboard I want to invest in, but would love to adopt throwaway parts. You don't believe how many Sound Blaster Live! sound cards I have rescued

But Life, as well as my music tastes have changed a lot over the years, so this "dream" is not as necessary as it used to be.

A past friend of mine used to tell me that if I have a dream I should always try to make it real and if I changed my mind later I would deeply regret it; it's in my blood. Rest in peace, good friend.

As I have optical problems, I need to tune my display settings finely, and even then it's still problematic.

I have a similar situation and I am sure we are not the only ones needing to fine tune picture output properties. I can wholeheartedly recommend NVIDIA products; starting from the GeForce 8 series picture output is of higher quality, which could make a noticeable difference with a relatively new LCD.

I am also somewhat a supporter of ATI and AMD, since they have served me well for many years, albeit with many heartaches. Think of it as a relationship you really have to fight for and work at, as opposed to a smooth sailing one which brings no battles.

I never have had such experience with my PC, and it literally shocks me to hear this. Why hurt yourself with intention?

I don't care so much about gaming

Amen.

[Shamgar]

There is, but I don't want to wait for the time to come. My way of achieving things is to assume "now" is the time.

I personally tend not to jump straight into things. I miss many opportunities this way, but time is still on my side, and I know my goals are still possible. To use a football analogy, a lot of goals are scored in time added on these days, so being patient, waiting for the opening and never giving up till the final whistle. I might not be at the centre of everything, but working hard in defence and down the bylines until I can cut in and attack.

I never have had such experience with my PC, and it literally shocks me to hear this. Why hurt yourself with intention?

Mainly out of necessity. Perhaps due to some strange satisfaction of supporting the underdog.

Re: your motherboard choice, I had a look at the ASUS P5Q-E and it looks very good. Competes with Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P -- give or take a few differences. What is your opinion on the Firewire chips. I always heard that the Texas Instruments (used by GB) controller was better than the LSI/Agere (used by ASUS). I may never need to use the Firewire interface, but it's good to know in case I do.

[LodeHacker]

Slightly off topic, but it's good to know that your are in the front line again Shamgar, keep kicking

It's basically a myth that Texas Instruments produces better FireWire chips. Better as in quality, compatibility, functionality, etcetera. A lot has changed and to be fair to other chip makers I must say that Texas Instruments' chip is not something special (anymore). I use FireWire audio devices so I should know the best if there is added latency due to the FireWire controller or audible errors in an audio stream. I've used lots of different FireWire controllers including Texas Instruments and have yet to see any differ in functionality, I think it's safe to buy from other chip makers.

I am thinking to drop the P5Q-E though, just so I can save slightly bit more cash for RAM. It turned out most RAM modules I have are not even 667Mhz and none of them exceed 1GB in size. Time to buy new RAM and DDR3 doesn't look too expensive, opening up more choices for the motherboard. Any recommendations?

[Shamgar]

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. So I needn't be worried about the brand of chip for Firewire.

Besides ASUS and Gigabyte, I can give you no solid recommendations at the present time. I am still in a researching phase myself.

If in future I need advice regarding audio, I will pick your brain for information. Until then, I will definitely keep kicking .

[thejamppa]

Good luck with your build. Remember to post pics after wards into general gallery ^^

[LodeHacker]

Good luck with your build. Remember to post pics after wards into general gallery ^^

Actually let me post pictures of my current build so you get an idea of how crazy I am Stay tuned...