Silencing a midrange P182 gaming rig

wal9000 · Post by **wal9000** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:08 pm

Getting annoyed with the noise my computer makes, so I'm looking into how to quiet it down a bit. Could use some suggestions from the folks around here with more experience in this than I have. I kind of went "ZOMG FANS!" when I put it together, and went a bit overboard on cooling. Now I'm wondering how to best tone it down.

Current specs:

E2180 overclocked to 2.53, Geminii w/ 2x Yate Loon D12SM-12
XFX 8600GT, Accelero S1 rev 2
2x 500 GB hard drives
Apevia power supply, got it cheap from a friend and don't know exactly what model
5 case fans (2x upper hard drive cage, top, rear, lower chamber), all medium speed Yate Loons
MFC1 Plus fan controller, controls all fans but the lower chamber

And here's a bunch of questions:

The Geminii, being a massive heatsink, is basically right up against the rear fan, so there's an intake blowing directly onto the side of it. Is turbulence from this sort of thing a significant factor in fan noise?
In addition to disrupting airflow, having a heatsink that covers up the RAM slots and a large portion of the motherboard gets annoying to work around. I've heard good things about Zalman's heatsinks, would replacing it with a CNPS9500 or CNPS9700 help quiet the computer down enough to justify replacing a heatsink that works just fine? Is the 110mm fan version worth the extra $10 over the 92mm?
The medium speed Yates make a good bit of noise when turned down the whole way. Would I still get adequate cooling if I dropped down to the D12SL-12? I've read that the Nexus fans are basically the same thing, is there enough of a difference to justify the cost?
7 fans is a lot. If I replace the Geminii it'd be down to 6 (or I could just pull one of the Geminii fans off and keep the sink), but I think I could cut out a couple more. Right now the the main chamber has two fans on the front (at the front and back of the empty upper HD cage) pointed at the graphics card, an intake on the rear pointed at the Geminii, and an exhaust on the top. I figure I can get rid of one of the two fans on the front intake, but is the back intake necessary too?

I think that's all for now, if I can get it quiet enough to hear much drive noise over the fans I'll be looking into suspending those, but the air is my main concern at the moment. I basically just need an idea of how much of my cooling is necessary for a machine of these specs, and how to get it with the least sound. Thanks!

danimal · Post by **danimal** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:22 pm

i have what i think is a zalman 9500, and it doesn't begin to compare to my scythe mugen 2... the zalman made a *lot* more noise, and the cooling wasn't nearly as good... i don't know about your gemini, but big is pretty much always better when it comes to air cooling.

i have been experimenting with positive case pressure on my p180b, i have all 5 fans blowing air in, and exhausting it out around the video card... the top and back fans that blow directly on the cpu cooler still show some airflow suction from the outside of their respective grills, so it's working to some extent, even with the turbulence.

i would suggest testing your fan noise by turning off the computer completely, and running the fan by itself... isolate the noise, see if it's significant... i used one of those external ide/sata power adapters to power the fan.

i just had to put in a new motherboard, and i'm currently running at what appears to be a stable 3.656ghz on my q9400... i think that the most important thing you can do is use the best video/cpu cooler setup you can, it works a lot better than trying to make up for a marginal cooler that needs massive airflow inside the case.

wal9000 · Post by **wal9000** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:32 pm

Already did that with the video cooler. The accelero is a two slot passive cooler with 4 heat pipes and some enormous fins. The thing dropped my 8600's load temps from around 90 to 62, even with the case fans the whole way down. With the front intake fans maxed it drops to 53. But 62 seems pretty safe as a load temp with the fans at minimum, and I'd much rather have it quiet all the time, with something in the 60s as my gaming temperature and fans cranked up. Hence my wondering how much cooling power I stand to lose by switching the Yate Loons from the medium speeds (1650 RPM) to lows (1350 RPM).

Also, I've noticed that the rear fan develops much more of a whine when turned up than the other fans, suggesting that having it blowing right up against the Geminii is a factor in my noise.

danimal · Post by **danimal** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:19 pm

i had one of the tri-cools get noisy on me, but i couldn't really tell which fan it was until i ran it by itself.

that gemini must be really close to the fan... i have that situation with the fan on the top of the case, it's way too close to the mugen 2, but it wasn't making all that much noise.

i want to get one of those good video coolers!

wal9000 · Post by **wal9000** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:25 pm

I highly recommend the accelero, it's the best $30 I've spent on this computer. Drastic change is partly attributable to it being awesome, and partly the XFX stock being a noisy piece of shit the ran 100% no matter what and didn't actually cool anything...

I think I'm going to start disconnecting fans tomorrow and see what sort of temperature increases it causes. I'm not convinced all of these are doing much.

I'm also thinking the power supply might provide enough airflow in the lower chamber to keep the hard drives cool without a 120mm down there, but I'm not sure I want to risk it. Can anyone confirm/deny that?

Still would like to know how a D12SL-12 at 12 V compares to a D12SM-12 at 5 V if anyone's owned both models before. I never really need to run these at higher than 5, so if I can get that much cooling off of the lower speed ones at max then I'll probably switch them out.

JamieG · Post by **JamieG** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:11 am

Wow, that amount of fans seems like overkill!

You should be going for traditional front to rear airflow and therefore be able to get rid of some of those fans.

I would go for the following reasonably cheap changes:

- buy a Xigmatek S1283 and bolt through kit to replace the Geminii
- remove all of your existing fans
- buy 3 of whatever of the following fans suits your budget: Scythe Slipstream 800rpm / Nexus 1000rpm / Low speed Yate Loon
- install the Xigmatek heatsink with bolt through kit
- put the 3 fans you bought at the following locations - rear exhaust fan / front middle intake fan / Xigmatek heatsink blowing towards rear exhaust and wire all three to your fan controller.
- cover the top exhaust area with some cardboard or similar.
- tape up the exhaust holes around your PSU so that the only exhaust from the lower chamber is through your PSU (I assume both your HDDs are in the lower chamber)
- boot your PC and turn down the fans using your fan controller to a comfortable level
- check to see if your PSU fan is now making the most noise, or your HDDs or your new cases fans.
- If the PSU fan is the noisiest, either buy a new PSU from the Recommended PSU list in the main section of this site, or if you are comfortable, do a fan swap on your existing Apevia PSU. (For an 80mm pull through design, I'd recommend a Noctua 80mm fan, and for a 120mm design, I'd suggest a Scythe S-Flex E 1600rpm) and either wire these fans to your PSU fan header or to your fan controller (if you have spare space).
- Next, run a full CPU and GPU stress test - Prime95 + Furmark at the same time is what I use, and monitor your CPU and GPU temps with something like RivaTuner / SpeedFan / RealTemp etc.
- Run this for a while to see if your system is stable and that you're comfortable with the temperatures. If not, turn up your fans and/or add a fan to the Accelero - ghetto mod it with zip ties or something like that. use one of your existing Yate Loons just to see if this works, even if it is a bit loud.

With 2 x HDDs in the lower hard drive cage, the PSU fan only should be enough to cool them.

Hopefully this helps a bit. You really shouldn't need any more than 3-4 fans in this case for your configuration.

wal9000 · Post by **wal9000** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:39 am

Any reason to use the 800 RPM slipstream instead of 1200? Fan roundup 5 says they both drop under 18 dBa at 5V, and it's got better airflow at their ambient noise level.

I'm thinking for the sake of money I'll leave the Geminii alone and just run it with a single fan. Maybe not ideal, but heatsinks are a bit pricy for me to replace it unnecessarily. Centering the fan over the CPU will open up some space on the left for airflow anyway.

PSU is an 80mm pull through, and it's slightly audible at the lowest setting even with the current fan setup. I think it's because the tone is whinier than the 120s. A fan replacement for that shouldn't give me too much trouble.

K.Murx · Post by **K.Murx** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:59 am

wal9000 wrote:Any reason to use the 800 RPM slipstream instead of 1200? Fan roundup 5 says they both drop under 18 dBa at 5V, and it's got better airflow at their ambient noise level.

None that I know of - I would have recommended the 1200s, too. More headroom when needed is always nice - and as you have a fan controller, you can turn them down to (near) silence.

For the fan setup, I concur with JamieG, except that I keep a (very low speed) fan in the lower chamber, it does not really influence acoustics and does improve HDD temps a bit.

The weakest/noisiest part after that is probably the PSU, if you can not afford a new one, a fan swap is your best bet.
But be careful when you open your PSU - make sure every capacitor is depleted, do not touch any circuitry, and only work with one hand where possible.
Still, for various reasons, the PSU might not work correctly after a fan swap, so remember that you run a risk there - if you can not risk to lose your PSU, do not touch it.

wal9000 · Post by **wal9000** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:50 am

I can afford to if I need one, but I'd much prefer to not have to. We'll see how loud it is once I deal with the other fans.

Agreed on the lower chamber fan, if it keeps my hard drives alive longer it's worth a couple of bucks. The 800 RPM should be fine there.

JamieG · Post by **JamieG** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:31 pm

K.Murx wrote:
wal9000 wrote:Any reason to use the 800 RPM slipstream instead of 1200? Fan roundup 5 says they both drop under 18 dBa at 5V, and it's got better airflow at their ambient noise level.
None that I know of - I would have recommended the 1200s, too. More headroom when needed is always nice - and as you have a fan controller, you can turn them down to (near) silence.

For the fan setup, I concur with JamieG, except that I keep a (very low speed) fan in the lower chamber, it does not really influence acoustics and does improve HDD temps a bit.

There isn't too much difference between the 800rpm and 1200rpm versions of the Slipstream when undervolted to appropriate levels as per the SPCR reviews. If you want the headroom, the 1200rpm does provide you that option.

Subjectively, after using both versions, you can turn the 800rpm version down to the point that it is a little quieter than the 1200rpm version.

Turning up the voltage, the 1200rpm version gets too noisy for my taste at much more than 5V while the 800rpm version continues to be quiet enough for me at greater voltages and is inaudible to me at 5V at >20cm away.

I literally cannot tell if my main PC (SSD and HR-01+ w/ Slipstream 800rpm at 5V) is on when sitting at my desk, about 0.8m from my PC.

In your situation, maybe the 1200rpm Slipstream for your heatsink and 800rpm versions elsewhere could be a good combination. However, I'm not sure of the static pressure of the Slipstream fans, so a Nexus 1000rpm fan could be a better choice for your heatsink perhaps, particularly if you are overclocking.

If you did want to continue with the lower chamber fan for the sake of your HDD temps as suggested above, a 800rpm Slipstream hard-wired to 5V is unlikely to add any extra noise to your system.

I still think the heatsink replacement is the best thing that you could do for your system - that Xigmatek is usually pretty cheap.

wal9000 · Post by **wal9000** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:58 pm

I use this computer primarily for gaming, CAD, and rendering (Photography, mail, web browsing, etc happen on my MacBook Pro), so having some level of cooling is important. Unreal Tournament 3 is probably the most strenuous activity it gets, which is where the Accelero comparison temperatures I posted earlier came from.

As it turns out, I'm actually using high speed Yate Loons right now... not sure why I was thinking they were the mediums. So I'm a bit concerned that dropping down to a couple 800 RPMs wouldn't give me enough airflow. Given that I'm current using 2200 RPM fans (d'oh) instead of the 1650s that I thought they were, I'm even questioning that the Slipstream 1200 will be sufficient to keep things cool under load. What do you guys think?

danimal · Post by **danimal** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:16 pm

2200 rpm fans, no wonder it's loud.

i see your point about internal case temps in the traditional push-pull configuration, when the heat off of the video card isn't vented out the back, it gets pulled up across all of the internal components, on it's way out of the top vents.

wal9000 · Post by **wal9000** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:33 pm

Well, I don't actually run them at 2200 RPM unless I'm gaming with headphones on or leaving a render running while I'm not there. So it's not that loud. But even with the fans down it gets a pretty good woosh going. Didn't use to bother me since it wasn't on except when I was gaming or running AutoCAD/Revit/Blender. I've been using it more frequently now, so the noise has become more bothersome.

It doesn't have any whines, grinds, ticks, or anything. It's just that I feel like I'm sitting next to a small jet engine. Though I admit the 182 does an good job keeping it muffled, I've heard computers much louder than mine is with the fans down.

Regarding the upper compartment intake, does putting two fans in (front and back of the drive cage) actually increase airflow, or just give higher pressure? I need to make sure that some air goes through the GPU and out the PCI vents instead of all getting blown out the rear exhaust.

K.Murx · Post by **K.Murx** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:47 pm

Could you post your current temperatures?

Anyway, you have a 65W DualCore, and a 30W graphics card. I am running a 95W Ph II and a 60W graphics card with three SlipStream1200s and the graphic card's stock fan with the fans usually at 800 RPM unless it's 35C Room temperature again - so your system should be more than fine.
Just take everything out except three fans, turn them as low as possible and watch your temperatures.
The only part that could be of concern is the graphics card, but if it gets too hot just strap the intake fan on the Accelero.

P.S.: I do not want to imagine how your system before you replaced the "noisy" graphics card fan...

P.P.S: Fans in series only increase pressure, not airflow.

wal9000 · Post by **wal9000** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:59 pm

K.Murx, here are current system temps. Running Prime95 and ATITool 3d view. Temperatures as reported by Speedfan, which I haven't calibrated. Hopefully they're close.

Fans low: CPU at 41C and cores at 44/46. GPU hovering around 64.
Fans high: CPU 40C, cores at 42/44. GPU at 56C.

At idle with the fans down CPU is steady at 24/24/28, and GPU runs at 47.

The fact that CPU is practically ambient at idle and fan speed makes such a small difference under load suggests to me that the cooling is entirely overkill, which I'd pretty much assumed before. I've had it stable over 3 GHz, but ended up turning it down because I figured it was pointless.

K.Murx · Post by **K.Murx** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:14 am

Your cooling is not overkill, it is mutually assured destruction.
You have about 15-20C headroom. So just get rid of those fans.

wal9000 · Post by **wal9000** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:23 pm

Once upon a time I'd planned on upgrading it, then I realized it was a waste of money for a computer I don't use a whole lot. I'll probably overhaul it to i7 or whatever comes next in a year or two. If I switch out to 1200 RPM slipstreams will they have any trouble on newer hardware, or is it close enough to the same thermal output?

K.Murx · Post by **K.Murx** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:25 pm

There are some reports that a i7 can not be cooled by a 1100 RPM Nexus fan.
However I am not entirely convinced that there are no other factors at play that configuration.

Anyway, in a year or two there might be more energy efficient quad cores. Even if not, the Slipstrams should be fine for case airflow, and you would only have to replace the fan on the CPU heatsink.