Best way to run old 32-bit WinXP apps in Win7 Pro 64-bit?

Scott J · Post by **Scott J** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:46 pm

I recently finished my first PC build, and I've never messed around inside the case, so hitting the power button and actually having the machine flicker to life was sort of a '2001: A Space Odyssey' monkey-throwing-bones-in-the-air moment, with Also Sprach Zarathustra playing in the background...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vahx4rAd0N0&NR=1

I wanted to use a few of my old programs, so I bought Win7 Pro (64-bit) because thought I needed it for "XP Mode" to run any programs that would not run in Win7. The first program I'm really missing is:

Micrografx Windows Draw 6.0 'Print Studio Premier Edition'
http://designer-info.com/Writing/microg ... draw_6.htm
I would really like to be able to use this program, but Win7 won't even let me install it.

The other program I could REALLY use is JASC Paint Shop Pro 4.3 (or something like that). I know it's old, but I'm used to it and it works for my purposes. I'm sure even JASC Paint Shop 5 would be fine, since that was the last "upgrade" before the software was bought by another company and wholesale changes began (or so I've read).

I realize there are lots of newer and better programs, but I've tried a couple already (GIMP and Picasa 3), and "intuitive" they are not, at least not for me. Trying to accomplish even the most simple of things, like cropping a picture or resizing a picture so I can upload it onto a Forum, is an exercise in frustration. I'm not a graphics artist, and I don't need a program with a quadrillion functions, I just need to be able to do a few things and do them well. JASC Paint Shop Pro is very simple, and does exactly what I need. When I need more, I can use Photoshop Elements if I have to, but JASC Paint Shop has been my go-to photo editor for quick/simple jobs since 2004.

I was about to figure out how to install "XP Mode", when I thought I better check with somebody here first. Is XP Mode the best or only option?

I just read about "compatibility mode" which seems to be something different than "XP Mode". Since Win7 won't let me install Micrografx Windows Draw 6.0 from the CD, could I copy the entire contents of my Micrografx Windows Draw 6.0 (or JASC Paint Shop Pro) into a folder on my hard drive, and install it from there using "compatibility mode", or do I need to do the virtual OS route via XP Mode?

Thanks very much for any help or advice,

Scott

psiu · Post by **psiu** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:00 am

I *think* that if it will let you install in compatibility mode, you should be able to do so from the cd. Try opening the CD and right clicking on the setup, at the very least give it a "run as administrator" try. But it probably wouldn't tale too long to copy the CD either.

When you say it won't even let you install it, does it tell you won't work, but give you an option to go forward? You can always try going forward and seeing what happens?

Otherwise XP mode might be the way to go.

As an aside, I installed Simtower for Windows, v1.0 and vintage 1994, and it installed fine in Win7, with no tricks needed

Apparently Maxis must have followed all the rules and Microsoft didn't change any either!

PaulShapiro · Post by **PaulShapiro** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:16 am

Under 64-bit Win 7, most 32-bit applications will run fine. But if the app has a 16-bit installer, which was true for many older apps, that installer cannot run in x64. Win XP mode would then be your only option, or getting a newer application.

PaleMelanesian · Post by **PaleMelanesian** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:47 am

I'm in that boat with my new machine here at work. Some of the development tools we use won't run (yet) on Win7-64. XP Mode is the way we handle those.

Also note you can use other virtual machine systems besides Microsoft's. VMWare is one I've seen discussed.

Scott J · Post by **Scott J** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:22 pm

PaulShapiro wrote:Under 64-bit Win 7, most 32-bit applications will run fine. But if the app has a 16-bit installer, which was true for many older apps, that installer cannot run in x64. Win XP mode would then be your only option, or getting a newer application.

Hi Paul, I'm not sure, but I think this is a 16-bit application. I tried checking via Google search, and there is lots of information on this program (Windows Draw 6.0), but I couldn't find anything definitive about being 16-bit, other than saying it was compatible with 16-bit SVGA, and I don't know if that's the same thing as being a 16-bit installer.

I just tried running setup.exe from the CD again, to see again what the specific error/warning message was, and this is the error: "The version of this file is not compatible with the version of Windows you're running. Check your computer's system information to see whether you need an x86 (32-bit) or x64 (64-bit) version of the program, and then contact the software publisher."

Hang on, I just tried to install by running "Autorun" for a specific application on the CD, and it brought up the following error message box: "The program of feature \??\D:\setup.exe cannot start or run due to incompatibility with 64-bit versions of Windows. Please contact the software vendor to ask if a 64-bit Windows compatible version is available."

So I guess that answers that... sounds like "WinXP Mode" on Win7 is my only option. That's fine, and I'm glad the option is available, I just don't know anything about it yet, so it's another research project...

Scott J · Post by **Scott J** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:19 pm

psiu wrote:I *think* that if it will let you install in compatibility mode, you should be able to do so from the cd. Try opening the CD and right clicking on the setup, at the very least give it a "run as administrator" try. But it probably wouldn't tale too long to copy the CD either.

When you say it won't even let you install it, does it tell you won't work, but give you an option to go forward? You can always try going forward and seeing what happens?

Otherwise XP mode might be the way to go.

As an aside, I installed Simtower for Windows, v1.0 and vintage 1994, and it installed fine in Win7, with no tricks needed Apparently Maxis must have followed all the rules and Microsoft didn't change any either!

Well, for one (good) thing, I learned a little about "Compatibility Mode" today (I'm just learning Win7). I right-clicked on Setup and tried to run it as an Administrator, then Win7 tried to resolve the compatibility issue, and even let me check off a box saying that the program had previously run on WinXP SP3, so it tried to organize itself to match, but it wouldn't allow me to "Run" the program (nothing happened when I hit the button), I could only hit the "Next" button or Cancel. If I hit "Next", it gave me another incompatibility error, which must be related to the 16-bit nature of the installer.

PaleMelanesian wrote:I'm in that boat with my new machine here at work. Some of the development tools we use won't run (yet) on Win7-64. XP Mode is the way we handle those.

Also note you can use other virtual machine systems besides Microsoft's. VMWare is one I've seen discussed.

It sounds like XP Mode is probably the best route for someone with a fairly low level of technical/computer sophistication (me). I have found several articles about "WinXP Mode", I just haven't had time to educate myself about it yet. It appears to be a two-step process.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/01 ... de_review/
"Windows XP Mode is an add-on for Windows 7 Professional and higher that comes in two parts, each of which has its own setup. The first is Windows Virtual PC, a new version of Microsoft's free desktop virtualization platform, and the second is Virtual Windows XP itself, which is a virtual hard drive pre-loaded and licensed with Windows XP Service Pack 3.

Windows XP Mode requires hardware virtualization support from your CPU, either AMD Virtualization (AMD-V) or Intel Virtualization Technology (Intel-VT). Two snags: first, most PCs which support this have it disabled by default, and second, there are plenty of boxes out there that do not support it at all, including those based on current Intel Celeron, Pentium, and some Core 2 Duo CPUs."

My CPU is an i7-920 and when I ran the hardware detection utility, it said the Intel VT was disabled, so I'll need to get into the BIOS to adjust that. I remember reading that running what amounts to a second OS in "XP Mode" from an SSD drive (my main or "C" drive is an Intel X25-M) may not be a good idea, so I'm wondering if I can install the "WinXP Mode" on one of my "regular" hard disks? I have a new 1TB Samsung F3 that I'm using for data, old files, back-ups, etc., and I have a new 250GB Seagate that I haven't used for anything yet.

Would it be possible (or is it even a good idea) to partition the 250GB HDD into 50GB and 200GB partitions, and load the WinXP Mode and the two or three old WinXP applications I'll be using it for on the smaller (50GB) partition?

PaleMelanesian · Post by **PaleMelanesian** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:32 pm

In Virtual PC's settings, you can specify where the virtual disk file is located. That sounds like you can do exactly what you're talking about. You can create multiple virtual disks and mount them in XP mode, as well.

Scott J · Post by **Scott J** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:51 pm

PaleMelanesian wrote:In Virtual PC's settings, you can specify where the virtual disk file is located. That sounds like you can do exactly what you're talking about. You can create multiple virtual disks and mount them in XP mode, as well.

Hi PM, I'll give it a try then. I really only need WinXP Mode for two programs that I can think of at the moment, Windows Draw 6.0 and JASC Paint Shop Pro. Of the two, I could (and will, eventually) learn one of the newer photo programs, but I haven't read about anything out today that matches the seemingly unique capabilities of Windows Draw 6.0, which is probably why it has such a loyal following even many years after it was discontinued (I think the version I have was released in 1999). It ran great on my WinXP SP3 machine. I've been using Windows Draw 6.0 for all these years and it still does nearly everything I need it to do.

It almost seems silly to load a virtual OS just to run one or two programs occasionally, but I also have hundreds of files (designs, newsletters, all kinds of stuff) saved in the Windows Draw 6.0 file format (.drw), and I can't access any of those files now, unless I boot up my old PC.

Thanks very much for the quick reply,

Scott

PaleMelanesian · Post by **PaleMelanesian** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:59 pm

One more gotcha:
Under xp mode, your files will be located on a sort of "network share" drive, that links to the host machine's C drive, not on the XP virtual C: drive. You'll probably want to make some shortcuts, or map a network drive, for quicker access.

Scott J · Post by **Scott J** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:30 pm

PaleMelanesian wrote:One more gotcha:
Under xp mode, your files will be located on a sort of "network share" drive, that links to the host machine's C drive, not on the XP virtual C: drive. You'll probably want to make some shortcuts, or map a network drive, for quicker access.

Do you mean ALL of my PC files will be located on a "network share" drive, or JUST the WinXP programs and their associated files?

By making "shortcuts", do you mean right-clicking on a file or program and selecting "create shortcut", or are you using the term "shortcut" in a generic sense?

Right-clicking on a file or app to create a shortcut is fine if that's what you're referring to, but I've never "mapped" a "network drive" before, I'm not even sure what "mapping" a drive means without Googling it and reading about the subject.

PaleMelanesian · Post by **PaleMelanesian** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:08 am

sorry - i have a tendency to use too few words to explain myself.

In XP mode, you're basically running another computer inside a window. That computer has its own set of drives. When you're there, opening up the C drive to look at files will only open the XP mode C drive. All your files (Except for XP itself and the handful of program files you install there) will be on the C drive of the host machine - outside of XP and on Win7.

When you open My Computer in XP mode, you'll see the Win7 drives listed at the bottom as network shared drives. If your computer is named ScottJ, then you'll see "C on ScottJ" and "D on ScottJ" as network drives. That's where your files will be.

Don't worry about mapping a network drive. You can just right-click and make a shortcut to these drives if you want. Maybe in My Documents if that's where the programs default to looking for files.

Mauersegler · Post by **Mauersegler** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:30 am

I've used VMware, but recently switched to Sun's VirtualBox (mainly because it's free). It's really not complicated and the majority of the features are well documented. Using VirtualBox you can also easily transfer the virtual OS to another host OS. I think you should look into it, before you settle for one solution.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:36 am

VMWare Player is also free.

http://www.vmware.com/products/player/

Scott J · Post by **Scott J** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:03 am

PaleMelanesian wrote:sorry - i have a tendency to use too few words to explain myself.

In XP mode, you're basically running another computer inside a window. That computer has its own set of drives. When you're there, opening up the C drive to look at files will only open the XP mode C drive. All your files (Except for XP itself and the handful of program files you install there) will be on the C drive of the host machine - outside of XP and on Win7.

When you open My Computer in XP mode, you'll see the Win7 drives listed at the bottom as network shared drives. If your computer is named ScottJ, then you'll see "C on ScottJ" and "D on ScottJ" as network drives. That's where your files will be.

Don't worry about mapping a network drive. You can just right-click and make a shortcut to these drives if you want. Maybe in My Documents if that's where the programs default to looking for files.

Thank you for explaining, I appreciate it. This is all new to me, but I'm eager to learn. I will try to take some time this weekend to get this up and running.

Thanks again,
Scott

Scott J · Post by **Scott J** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:07 am

Mauersegler wrote:I've used VMware, but recently switched to Sun's VirtualBox (mainly because it's free). It's really not complicated and the majority of the features are well documented. Using VirtualBox you can also easily transfer the virtual OS to another host OS. I think you should look into it, before you settle for one solution.

Mats wrote:VMWare Player is also free.

http://www.vmware.com/products/player/

Thanks very much to both of you for the information and the link, I'll read up on these things and try to figure out what would work best for my usage.

psiu · Post by **psiu** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:48 pm

One thing XP Mode is supposed to let you do is integrate apps very nicely into Win7--you can get the programs on the Start Menu, open them, and it will open a window running the application, not even bothering with the virtual desktop. Just another window on your screen.

I do believe Virtualbox has something similar as well. Though the benefit of the XP Mode is it's a functioning install of XP Pro right out of the box (security updates needed as well

).

PaleMelanesian · Post by **PaleMelanesian** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:56 pm

That's correct. You have to open XP Mode in a window, add the item to its start menu. Then close the XP window. There's a sub-menu in Win7 that includes the XP start menu items. (most but not all of them, and I'm having trouble understanding the criteria)

PaleMelanesian · Post by **PaleMelanesian** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:59 pm

Oh, one more thing, since you're wanting to do graphics stuff in XP Mode - it defaults to 16-bit color (ugly). The following worked for me. In xp mode, start->run->type "regedit". Then find the location below in the tree and add the items.

or, put all the lines below into a .reg file and double-click it to add the items. (all in XP mode)

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows NT\Terminal Services]
"fDenyTSConnections"=dword:00000000
"UserAuthentication"=dword:00000000
"ColorDepth"=dword:00000004

Scott J · Post by **Scott J** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:05 pm

psiu wrote:One thing XP Mode is supposed to let you do is integrate apps very nicely into Win7--you can get the programs on the Start Menu, open them, and it will open a window running the application, not even bothering with the virtual desktop. Just another window on your screen.

I do believe Virtualbox has something similar as well. Though the benefit of the XP Mode is it's a functioning install of XP Pro right out of the box (security updates needed as well ).

That is good to know, I'll learn more about all of this when I get a chance to read the online articles I've found and bookmarked, and then hopefully I'll have enough knowledge to have a semi-intelligent conversation (but I'll probably learn just about enough to be dangerous...

Thank you,
Scott

Scott J · Post by **Scott J** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:08 pm

PaleMelanesian wrote:Oh, one more thing, since you're wanting to do graphics stuff in XP Mode - it defaults to 16-bit color (ugly). The following worked for me. In xp mode, start->run->type "regedit". Then find the location below in the tree and add the items.

or, put all the lines below into a .reg file and double-click it to add the items. (all in XP mode)

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows NT\Terminal Services]
"fDenyTSConnections"=dword:00000000
"UserAuthentication"=dword:00000000
"ColorDepth"=dword:00000004

I'm getting more comfortable working on components inside the PC box, but I have never played around in the Registry before...

Lots to read and learn, hopefully this weekend. Thanks again for your help,

Scott

Scott J · Post by **Scott J** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:27 pm

PaleMelanesian · Post by **PaleMelanesian** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:02 pm

Scott J wrote: I'm GUESSING that I need to do three separate "New" entries, i.e.,

3. New -> DWORD Value -> "ColorDepth"=dword:00000004 (pasted in for the value)

That's very close. You're right, dword is the type, so it's like this:

New -> DWORD Value. Name it "ColorDepth". Right-click and choose "Modify". Enter the value "4". It will fill in the 0x0000 for you.

Repeat for the other two.

(it might call the type "reg_dword". That's fine as well.)