Help with new 920 system that needs to be silent!

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BlueSwan
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Re: Help with new 920 system that needs to be silent!

Post by BlueSwan » Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:30 pm

xan_user wrote:pro7 vs ultimate7= bitlocker encryption and support for 35 languages.
Thanks. I guess the Pro version will do then.

bonestonne
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Post by bonestonne » Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:34 pm

i've been shopping around for a good and slim (the way my computer is put together sort of blocks the PCI-e x1 slots) FW800 card, the best one I can find is $60USD with the TI chipset.

I've found FW interfaces for everything to be extremely picky, even for video devices.

I've been looking around for good FW chipsets, and somehow just had the luck with pulling them from dumpsters, but it leaves stuff to be wanted with FW800.

Lucky to run RME though, I've got an M-Audio FW Solo, along with a couple of Delta cards...very tempermental cards, could have a problem one minute, restart and never see it again, or you could have no problems for 5 minutes, and then have tons of problems for the next 40.
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BlueSwan
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Post by BlueSwan » Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:06 pm

My RME is only Firewire 400 though. I've found a cheap PCI card called the Lacie Firewire 400 PCI that should have a TI chipset. I don't know if it's crap though, since its very cheap. It's around $30 in Denmark (and stuff is usually much more expensive in Denmark than in the US). It's only PCI and not PCIe - don't know if it makes a difference with firewire?

But yeah, the RME FF800 is very good. Highly recommended!

BlueSwan
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Post by BlueSwan » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:06 am

bonestonne wrote:Scythe 800RPM slip stream fans for rear exhaust, top exhaust, CPU
one 500RPM slip stream in bottom chamber between hard drives and PSU

you could get away with just 3/4 500RPM slip streams, I would say you could block off the top exhaust and just use the rear exhaust. I don't think 1200RPM slipstreams are needed, but 800 should be plenty. maybe a PWM slipstream for the CPU?
OK, I've started looking more into the whole fan issue and I must admit to being a bit lost.

1) I've seen pictures like this: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article916-page3.html (fifth picture) where the fan is attached to the heatsink with some sort of metal grip. Are those grips ones you buy seperately or are they included when you buy a fan?

2) I've seen some rubberframes for fans, which supposedly dampens vibrations from fans: http://www.dustinhome.dk/pd_5010112315.aspx? - is this pointless or a must-have?

3) Scythe apparently has some new 140mm fans on the market. Would that be better than 120mm fans? http://www.dustinhome.dk/pd_5010380215.aspx?

...and I haven't even begun trying to figure out the whole under-voltage stuff yet. :shock:

It would be great if someone would make a suggestion to exactly which fans I should/could buy for my system. I don't mind buying a couple of fans too many though, as I could use them for my wife's computer, which is also fairly noisy.

BlueSwan
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Post by BlueSwan » Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:40 am

OK. Reading a lot of threads. Thinking about getting a Scythe Kaze Master to control the speed of 4 fans. Sounds like a good idea?

PlanetOfTheApes
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Post by PlanetOfTheApes » Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:31 am

I had a CP-850 in my system and it was rubbish noise wise. The fan was noisy at idle due to a ticking sound, I could also hear intermittent coil whine at night. So I replaced it with a Silverstone ST45NF which has been dead silent for me.

I'm using a Gigabyte EX58 mobo in my current system and don't hear any coil whine (see my signature).

A gaming card will make building a silent system more challenging.

Hard drive(s) should be the primary noise source, so I'd definitely go for single green (5400) 1TB desktop drive if you can.

One cpu fan + one case exhaust fan is all I use to cool my system. I run all my fans at a constant 600 rpm, as non-constant noise sources such as temp controlled fans tend to be more noticeable. Undervolting your cpu will drop load temps dramatically. Chipset and Memory may also be undervolted.

BlueSwan wrote: 1) I've seen pictures like this: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article916-page3.html (fifth picture) where the fan is attached to the heatsink with some sort of metal grip. Are those grips ones you buy seperately or are they included when you buy a fan?
Fan clip(s) are included with the CPU coolers you mentioned.
BlueSwan wrote: 2) I've seen some rubberframes for fans, which supposedly dampens vibrations from fans: http://www.dustinhome.dk/pd_5010112315.aspx? - is this pointless or a must-have?
Pointless, most quality fans already come with vibration dampeners
BlueSwan wrote: 3) Scythe apparently has some new 140mm fans on the market. Would that be better than 120mm fans? http://www.dustinhome.dk/pd_5010380215.aspx?
Don't know, I'd just stick to a SPCR recommended fan
BlueSwan wrote: It would be great if someone would make a suggestion to exactly which fans I should/could buy for my system.
Again, why not choose an SPCR recommended fan
BlueSwan wrote: OK. Reading a lot of threads. Thinking about getting a Scythe Kaze Master to control the speed of 4 fans. Sounds like a good idea?
Maybe, but you won't need them with Noctua S12B ULN fans, they run at low speed (500 & 700) and come with a speed adapter(=500 aprx).
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BlueSwan
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Post by BlueSwan » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:51 pm

PlanetOfTheApes wrote:I had a CP-850 in my system and it was rubbish noise wise. The fan was noisy at idle due to a ticking sound, I could also hear intermittent coil whine at night. So I replaced it with a Silverstone ST45NF which has been dead silent for me.
WOW! I do not like hearing that. That fanless Silverstone ST45NF unfortunately isn't available in Denmark. There's a fanless 300w supply but that would probably be cutting it a bit short!
I'm using a Gigabyte EX58 mobo in my current system and don't hear any coil whine (see my signature).
Great.
A gaming card will make building a silent system more challenging.
Really? I figured that as long as it was fanless, that it wouldn't be a problem unless it was stressed. Are you saying that "normal" nongaming use on a powerful GPU will require more cooling that the same activity on a budget fanless GPU?
One cpu fan + one case exhaust fan is all I use to cool my system. I run all my fans at a constant 600 rpm, as non-constant noise sources such as temp controlled fans tend to be more noticeable. Undervolting your cpu will drop load temps dramatically. Chipset and Memory may also be undervolted.
BlueSwan wrote: 1) I've seen pictures like this: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article916-page3.html (fifth picture) where the fan is attached to the heatsink with some sort of metal grip. Are those grips ones you buy seperately or are they included when you buy a fan?
Fan clip(s) are included with the CPU coolers you mentioned.
BlueSwan wrote: 2) I've seen some rubberframes for fans, which supposedly dampens vibrations from fans: http://www.dustinhome.dk/pd_5010112315.aspx? - is this pointless or a must-have?
Pointless, most quality fans already come with vibration dampeners
BlueSwan wrote: 3) Scythe apparently has some new 140mm fans on the market. Would that be better than 120mm fans? http://www.dustinhome.dk/pd_5010380215.aspx?
Don't know, I'd just stick to a SPCR recommended fan
BlueSwan wrote: It would be great if someone would make a suggestion to exactly which fans I should/could buy for my system.
Again, why not choose an SPCR recommended fan
BlueSwan wrote: OK. Reading a lot of threads. Thinking about getting a Scythe Kaze Master to control the speed of 4 fans. Sounds like a good idea?
Maybe, but you won't need them with Noctua S12B ULN fans, they run at low speed (500 & 700) and come with a speed adapter(=500 aprx).
Thank you for that info.

PlanetOfTheApes
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Post by PlanetOfTheApes » Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:11 am

BlueSwan wrote: WOW! I do not like hearing that. That fanless Silverstone ST45NF unfortunately isn't available in Denmark. There's a fanless 300w supply but that would probably be cutting it a bit short!
I'm not recommending any PSU, too many unknowns due to sample variance. I'm only commenting about my personal experience.

Denmark
http://www.silverstonetek.com/wbuy/wbuy ... denm&area=

I think I found one online retailer that sells ST45NF:
http://www.shopitonline.dk/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:2379254
BlueSwan wrote:
A gaming card will make building a silent system more challenging.
Really? I figured that as long as it was fanless, that it wouldn't be a problem unless it was stressed. Are you saying that "normal" nongaming use on a powerful GPU will require more cooling that the same activity on a budget fanless GPU?
Have a look at the 2D (non-gaming) power consumption of various graphic cards 2D power consumption

Stock fanless heatsinks are usually underdone. An aftermarket cooler such as an Accelero S1 with undervolted 120mm fans placed close to or mounted on the heatsink may be required to get the best noise/temp result. And/or an increase in case fan speed may be needed to keep temps down.

More challenging in the context of an ultra quiet build. I'm just saying why complicate things if you don't really want a gaming card. A low power card (say 5450) will have little/no impact on the system's temps/noise and the stock fanless heatsink will probably be adequate.
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bluflake
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Post by bluflake » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:56 am

Hi BlueSwan!

I'm a musician and I've been planning a new DAW for some time and happened to read your thread - my planned setup is really similar to yours. :)

Case: Antec P183
PSU: Antec CP-850
Motherboard: Asus P6X58D Premium
CPU: Intel Core i7 930
Memory: Corsair XMS3 6144MB DDR3 PC3-10666 1333MHz
(9-9-9-24) (3x2048MB) (TR3X6G1333C9)
Graphics: Gigabyte GeForce 9800GT Silent 1GB (PCIe x16)
HD: 2 x Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB
DVDR: Sony Optiarc Intern SATA DVD±RW 24x AD-7240S - Svart
OS: Windows 7 Ultimate (x64)

Some of my thoughts compared to your list:

- SSD HD: I'm skipping one this time around. I'll wait till they get cheaper.
- Nvidia grphics: I'm a casual gamer and I picked Nvidia since I like their drivers. I know ATI gives you slightly more bang for the buck.
- I'm planning to do any CPU cooler & fan optimizations after my build is done, but I'm very interested in good options.

As a side note, I also have to renew my soundcard so I'm going for the PCIe card RME HDSPe AIO. I've read so many good things about RME in the past so I'm counting it's worth the money even though I don't need all the features.

I'll be placing orders for my stuff now but I'll follow this thread closely. :)

Best regards from Sweden!

BlueSwan
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Post by BlueSwan » Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:50 am

PlanetOfTheApes wrote:I think I found one online retailer that sells ST45NF:
http://www.shopitonline.dk/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:2379254
Wow, well done. You're better at surfing danish web sites than I am! :D
Have a look at the 2D (non-gaming) power consumption of various graphic cards 2D power consumption
Nice! You're fast becoming my favourite user here! :D
Stock fanless heatsinks are usually underdone. An aftermarket cooler such as an Accelero S1 with undervolted 120mm fans placed close to or mounted on the heatsink may be required to get the best noise/temp result. And/or an increase in case fan speed may be needed to keep temps down.

More challenging in the context of an ultra quiet build. I'm just saying why complicate things if you don't really want a gaming card. A low power card (say 5450) will have little/no impact on the system's temps/noise and the stock fanless heatsink will probably be adequate.
Yeah, I think I'm getting a budget card.

BlueSwan
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Post by BlueSwan » Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:54 am

bluflake wrote:Hi BlueSwan!

I'm a musician and I've been planning a new DAW for some time and happened to read your thread - my planned setup is really similar to yours. :)

Case: Antec P183
PSU: Antec CP-850
Motherboard: Asus P6X58D Premium
CPU: Intel Core i7 930
Memory: Corsair XMS3 6144MB DDR3 PC3-10666 1333MHz
(9-9-9-24) (3x2048MB) (TR3X6G1333C9)
Graphics: Gigabyte GeForce 9800GT Silent 1GB (PCIe x16)
HD: 2 x Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB
DVDR: Sony Optiarc Intern SATA DVD±RW 24x AD-7240S - Svart
OS: Windows 7 Ultimate (x64)
Yeah, that is damn near identical!

Except I see that you're not having the firewire quabbles that I do.
Some of my thoughts compared to your list:

- SSD HD: I'm skipping one this time around. I'll wait till they get cheaper.
- Nvidia grphics: I'm a casual gamer and I picked Nvidia since I like their drivers. I know ATI gives you slightly more bang for the buck.
- I'm planning to do any CPU cooler & fan optimizations after my build is done, but I'm very interested in good options.

As a side note, I also have to renew my soundcard so I'm going for the PCIe card RME HDSPe AIO. I've read so many good things about RME in the past so I'm counting it's worth the money even though I don't need all the features.

I'll be placing orders for my stuff now but I'll follow this thread closely. :)

Best regards from Sweden!
Yeah, my thing is that I have to buy everything at once for tax purposes. Otherwise I would just have bought the fundamentals already and added on as I went along.

Do get RME. RME is very good. And I think you're wise picking the PCIe instead of going firewire. My main problem with getting a new system is pretty much getting the firewire to work. I need a 64 bit Win7 compatible firewire PCI or PCIe (preferably PCIe for longevity) with a TI chipset, since my RME Fireface 800 might not run on the VIA chipset on the Asus board (although that remains to actually be seen).

bluflake
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Post by bluflake » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:29 pm

BlueSwan wrote:Do get RME. RME is very good. And I think you're wise picking the PCIe instead of going firewire. My main problem with getting a new system is pretty much getting the firewire to work. I need a 64 bit Win7 compatible firewire PCI or PCIe (preferably PCIe for longevity) with a TI chipset, since my RME Fireface 800 might not run on the VIA chipset on the Asus board (although that remains to actually be seen).
Yes, I've been avoding external soundcards for that reason. I don't want to have the DAW + Firewire headache. :)

Now I got thinking about that passive PSU, the Silverstone Nightjar ST45NF.

1. Would a passive PSU like that require any special airflow considerations when used in an Antec P183 case? Would the "default" airflow be sufficient?

2. The 300 watt version is a lot easier to find where I am - would that be enough for the kind of setup this thread is about?

Grateful for any replies! (I hope I'm not hi-jacking your thread, BlueSwan! I think we're interested in similar things. :) )

PlanetOfTheApes
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Post by PlanetOfTheApes » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:01 pm

bluflake wrote: 1. Would a passive PSU like that require any special airflow considerations when used in an Antec P183 case?
Depends on the amount power being drawn from the PSU. You can mount a very quiet undervolted fan in the lower chamber.
bluflake wrote: Would the "default" airflow be sufficient?
I'd say yes with my components. My lower chamber is fanless and houses a single green hard drive. I stress tested my system for about an hour with prime95 and didn't notice any PSU overheating problems.
bluflake wrote: 2. The 300 watt version is a lot easier to find where I am - would that be enough for the kind of setup this thread is about?
I wouldn't hesitate using a ST30NF in my system.

Comments/tips:

Firstly, as I previously stated, I'm not recommending any PSU. The amount of electrical noise a PSU emits varies between samples. If you want/need a dead silent PSU, be aware that luck plays a role. I suggest investigating what your return/refund options are before buying.

Secondly, its efficiency isn't top notch by today's standards.

Thirdly, given that the proposed system has at a least one harddrive, I'm not sure how much system noise benefit can be gleaned by using a fanless vs a very quiet fan based PSU (if you can find one).
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bluflake
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Re: Help with new 920 system that needs to be silent!

Post by bluflake » Thu May 13, 2010 12:49 pm

BlueSwan wrote:CPU heatsink: Scythe Mugen 2
Read a lot on this topic and is still undecided. I’m also currently considering the Noctua NH-D14 and the Prolimatech Meganahalems. [I've gone off the Scythe a bit. Stuck between the Prolimatech and the Noctua at the moment]
How did it go with your system? I'm considering the Scythe Mugen 2 to replace the stock HS & fan. Which one did you get?

Take care!

sjoukew
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Post by sjoukew » Fri May 14, 2010 11:53 am

Scythe mugen 2 is a very good heat-sink.
Because you are going to use this pc professionally, I wouldn't make switches for silent / none silent operation. The only thing you want is a silent pc no matter what you are doing. And when you take a big cpu-cooler like the scythe mugen 2, cpu-cooling isn't that diffecult and undervolting would't make that much difference I think.

And i built an pc for my dad recently, with a samsung spinpoint f3 t1b.
It is a really Horrible drive :evil: . It is vibrating badly, far more than an antec sonata can handle silently, and the seeks, they are just LOUD, clearly audible through the entire room. I do really think that whatever you pick is better than this if you want it silent.

bluflake
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Post by bluflake » Tue May 18, 2010 7:22 am

sjoukew wrote:Scythe mugen 2 is a very good heat-sink.
Because you are going to use this pc professionally, I wouldn't make switches for silent / none silent operation. The only thing you want is a silent pc no matter what you are doing. And when you take a big cpu-cooler like the scythe mugen 2, cpu-cooling isn't that diffecult and undervolting would't make that much difference I think.
Interesting. The fan on the Mugen 2 is PWM controlled though, so it will ramp up when stressed. But even at the maximum speed it's only at 24 dB (silentpcreview.com), compared to 46 dB (almost the double!) for the stock cooler at maximum! (According to tomshardware.com).
sjoukew wrote:And i built an pc for my dad recently, with a samsung spinpoint f3 t1b.
It is a really Horrible drive :evil: . It is vibrating badly, far more than an antec sonata can handle silently, and the seeks, they are just LOUD, clearly audible through the entire room. I do really think that whatever you pick is better than this if you want it silent.
Oh, that's weird! I have 2 Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB drives mounted in my Antec P183 below my desk, and I can't hear the drives at all. The case absorbs some sound and they're mounted in the lower cage with the built-in dampening screws.

Deucal
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Post by Deucal » Sat May 22, 2010 2:16 pm

If you really want the Seasonic X-650 you can buy it from overclockers.co.uk they ship to Denmark.

joetekubi
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similar system, advice

Post by joetekubi » Mon May 24, 2010 11:53 am

BlueSwan wrote:OK. Reading a lot of threads. Thinking about getting a Scythe Kaze Master to control the speed of 4 fans. Sounds like a good idea?
Apologies for jumping into this discussion a bit late.
I recently did an upgrade, case mod to the system in my sig.
Very low noise was a top driver for me. Tired of "jet plane" systems.

You should pick your components for low noise operation (no surprise there!), but be flexible.
For instance, I paid top dollar ($20 USD) for 2 Scythe S-Flex 120MM case fans. I think I got the 9 dBA version. They are really silent, so much that I wish I'd gotten the higher CFM version (12 dBA) and then I could have played with resistors and cut the RPM a bit....

I got a Silverstone 500W PS, and it is darn near noiseless.

In fact, the loudest noise in my system is the WD EARS green drives seeking at 22dBA. I don't really mind it, but if I was planning on silent, I'd look at Raid 1, 10, or 5 using 2.5" laptop drives.

Another aspect is dust control. It doesn't take much dust on a fan to cause higher noise. I built a positive pressure system, and it seems to be working great so far (no dust inside).

HTH,
-joe
"What's your identity?"

Cibo Matto "Know your chicken"

Intel i7 930, MSI X58 PRO-E mb, Zalman CNPS 10x Quiet, 2x WD EARS 1.5 TB (raid 1 of course), 12GB tri-channel Patriot ram, Sparkle NVidia 9500GT fanless, Silverstone ST50F-ES 500W, Xubuntu Lucid 10.4

BlackWhizz
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Post by BlackWhizz » Mon May 24, 2010 12:28 pm

The only thing i can think about is your gpu (im not a audio producer). Why choose for a 4350 if you can get a 5xxx card. That card has DX11 and more and a cheap one is definately enough for you.
My quiet P180 Mini PC
Q6600 Xigmatek HDT-S1283 + TR Bolt Thru | MSI R5770 (soon a)Arctic Accelero S1 rev 2 | 4Gb ram | Asus P5Q-VM | 2.6TB storage | OCZ ModXStream Pro 500w

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