Small Office Computers: What case? What heatsink?

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samdrong
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Small Office Computers: What case? What heatsink?

Post by samdrong » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:13 am

I’m putting together a few office computers and I could use some help. The machines will be sitting on desks so I want to ensure they are as silent as possible. My two main questions are:

1) What “office appropriateâ€

ces
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Post by ces » Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:38 pm

How about using the APEX MI-008 Black Steel Mini-ITX Tower Computer Case

See:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article905-page1.html

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ImageGall ... r%20Supply

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811154091


Use the Zotac 1156 ITX board. Use the Pico-psu. Use the Scythe Big Shuriken. Replace the Big Shuriken 12mm thick PWM fan with a 500 rpm Scythe Slipstream. The savings from the Clarkdale 1156 setup may even pay for the computers over a period of a few years.

Now here is the inconvenient part. Cut a hole in the hole in the top of the case over the Big Shuriken and fill it with a nice black Filterright filter. It will look like it came from the factory that way.

It will be a nice pretty little package. The users will feel like they're being coddled like a CEO. The CFO will like it too.

If you need a bunch of them, and don't want to bother with the modification, I can do it for you, and even fabricate a plate to fill the hole left by removal of the PSU.

b_rubenstein
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Post by b_rubenstein » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:50 am

Office computers tend to have a long life span and are often left running 24/7. I would never...ever...use a case that used anything other than a standard ATX form factor power supply. Nor would I use any uncommon form factor components: no ITX MBs.

Unless there are some people doing some sort of special technical/artwork tasks, there is no need for anything other than integrated graphics. Typical office use is email, Word, Excel maybe a little PP and web browsing. A bottom end i3 processor in a M-ATX MB with 2 gig of RAM is all the users will ever need.

ilovejedd
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Post by ilovejedd » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:44 am

b_rubenstein wrote:Office computers tend to have a long life span and are often left running 24/7. I would never...ever...use a case that used anything other than a standard ATX form factor power supply. Nor would I use any uncommon form factor components: no ITX MBs.

Unless there are some people doing some sort of special technical/artwork tasks, there is no need for anything other than integrated graphics. Typical office use is email, Word, Excel maybe a little PP and web browsing. A bottom end i3 processor in a M-ATX MB with 2 gig of RAM is all the users will ever need.
I agree.

@samdrong
You currently don't have a GPU in your set-up. For Westmere, the actual GPU is on the CPU package and that i5-750 doesn't have it. Replace the i5-750 with a Clarkdale. The i3 530 should do nicely.

ces
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Post by ces » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:57 am

b_rubenstein wrote:I would never...ever...use a case that used anything other than a standard ATX form factor power supply. Nor would I use any uncommon form factor components: no ITX MBs.
I think the real issue there is cost. A 775 board micro-ATX can be gotten for about $100 less than a mini-ITX. Though I am not certain what the cheapest H55 1156 socket board costs. (I just checked newegg Gigabyte starts at $90 and Intel board start at $100).

At some point and always on Clarkdale, powered by a high efficiency Pico-PSU, pays for itself in electrical savings.

There is something to be said for a small footprint ITX computer. I believe the 775 and 1156 ITX boards are made tougher with better components (and have shorter warranties) because they often are run in hot cases.

If you give them a cool well ventilated case I would expect them to do better than a normal board. The ITX setup I proposed is about as cool and as well ventilated as you can get. You have a fan almost as big as the board downdrafting fresh cool air onto the entire board. That's motherboard heaven,

But the Intel mini-ITX Clarkdale board is $25 more than the Intel Micro-ATX Clarkdale board.

psyopper
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Post by psyopper » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:09 am

I would tend to agree with a more traditional approach with mATX, a standard ATX (or mATX) power supply from a known manufacturer, and Clarkdale i3-530 on an H55 board (Gigabyte UD2 comes to mind as solid and low price).

Use the stock cooler from Intel - it's quieter at idle than my 6400AAKS and the fan on my Seasonic S12-II 380.

The 3480 is too large for a corporate desktop (placed on the desktop) machine. If you want to look budget conscious go with the Minuet - it's very corporate desktop Dell/HP/Gateway looking. If you want the users to think you're cool and giving them something really nice, go with the NSK 1380 for $10 more - it's a chic, modern clean looking cube.

You'll be lucky with the i3-530 if they draw over 100 watts total peak at the wall and more than about 60 watts sustained (watching a DVD).

I would choose the Caviar Green 500GB hdd for lower spindle speeds and lower overall noise signature. Assuming you can get them for less than the blue's.

samdrong
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Post by samdrong » Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:16 am

Thanks for the advice. I tend to to agree with staying away from the mini-itx boards in the office (at home as an HTPC is a different matter).

b_rubenstein, if I do not use a form factor power supply what case would you suggest I use?

psyopper, are you certain that the Intel stock cooler will fit in a Minuet?

psyopper
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Post by psyopper » Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:53 am

samdrong wrote: psyopper, are you certain that the Intel stock cooler will fit in a Minuet?
No. Nor am I certian that I recommend the Intel HSF either. The noise I thought was my AAKS was actually the Intel fan...

b_rubenstein
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Post by b_rubenstein » Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:07 am

samdrong wrote:
b_rubenstein, if I do not use a form factor power supply what case would you suggest I use?
What you do want to use is a standard ATX power supply. Aside from some very small cases (mITX), you can find just about any type[/form factor] case.

dhanson865
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Post by dhanson865 » Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:45 am

If you aren't going to buy add in video cards I'd strongly suggest you get a motherboard based on the 785G chipset.

That would suggest either a Phenom II X4 945 3.0GHz AM3 95W or if you really want to keep the cost down the AMD Phenom II X3 720 2.8GHz AM3 95W

Take the money you save on the MB/CPU and put it on getting either a Low power Samsung HD or a mid grade SSD.

If you do go the Intel route you should budget for grabbing some fanless ATI 4350 cards $20 to $40 each and Intel SSDs 40GB/80GB for about $100 or 80GB/160GB for about $200 sometime down the road.

SSD prices won't change much between now and fall but when they do it'll be a big drop. The question is why give Western Digital your money now unless you don't think you can get your business done on a 80GB SSD?

Anyway that's my rambling for the morning.

b_rubenstein
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Post by b_rubenstein » Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:10 am

I read some of these posts and wonder if any of these people have ever been in an office aside from a Take your kid to work day

SSD's? Add in video cards? Right...

ces
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Post by ces » Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:11 am

samdrong wrote: if I do not use a form factor power supply what case would you suggest I use?
There aren't that many good business like matx cases in my opinion. Here is a list of matx cases that have caught my eye. I think only the Sugo and Antecs are suitable for your purposes:

LIAN LI V351 W 10.98; H 10.31; D 14.69; (ITX? & MATX)
BGEARS BG01206 W 11.20; H 9.00; D 14.70; (ONLY MATX)
APEVIA X-QPACK II W 11.25; H 9.00; D 14.50; (3 WINDOWS) (ONLY MATX)
APEVIA X-QPACK W 11.2; H 9.00; D 13.80; (3 WINDOWS) (ONLY MATX)
SUGO SG02F W 10.6; H 8.30; D 15.50; (ONLY MATX)
SUGO SG03B-F W 7.87; H 14.17; D 12.28; (ONLY MATX)
ANTEC NSK1380 W 10.60; H 7.90; D 13.20; (ONLY MATX)
ANTEC NSK 3480 W 7.87; H 13.78; D 13.98; (ONLY MATX)
ANTEC NSK 3300 W 7.80; H 13.80; D 13.80; (ONLY MATX)
ANTEC NSK 4400 W 7.80; H 16.50; D 16.60; (ATX & MATX)
ANTEC NSK 4480 W 7.80; H 16.50; D 16.60; (MATX & ATX)
LIAN LI PC A03 W 7.40; H 14.49; D 17.60; (ITX & MATX)
LIAN LI A05 W 8.27; H 15.00; D 19.29; (MATX & ATX)
LIAN LI PC-A06F W 7.36; H 14.76; D 19.29; (MATX & ATX)
ANTEC SOLO W 8.10; H 17.00; D 18.50; (ITX, MATX & ATX)
CENTURION 590 W 8.27; H 17.32; D 20.08; (MATX & ATX)
ANTEC ELITE 341 W 7.28; H 14.37; D 15.75; (ONLY MATX)
SHUTTLE SG41J1 W 8.46; H 7.48; D 12.79;

swivelguy2
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Post by swivelguy2 » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:27 am

b_rubenstein wrote:I read some of these posts and wonder if any of these people have ever been in an office aside from a Take your kid to work day

SSD's? Add in video cards? Right...
QFT. Along the same lines, I can't see an office computer buy splurging for $100 cases either. Maybe take a look at some of the InWin Micro ATX cases. They're very compact and fall in the $40-$60 range with no-name PSUs included (flex-ATX or SFX form factor, so there are reputable replacements available).

ilovejedd
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Post by ilovejedd » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:35 am

swivelguy2 wrote:
b_rubenstein wrote:I read some of these posts and wonder if any of these people have ever been in an office aside from a Take your kid to work day

SSD's? Add in video cards? Right...
QFT. Along the same lines, I can't see an office computer buy splurging for $100 cases either. Maybe take a look at some of the InWin Micro ATX cases. They're very compact and fall in the $40-$60 range with no-name PSUs included (flex-ATX or SFX form factor, so there are reputable replacements available).
Granted but you're usually working off per unit cost and not looking at the price of individual parts. So long as the total is within the specified budget, $100 for case+decent quality psu would be acceptable, particularly when that means less down time due to poor quality PSU. Albeit, $100 for the case alone is excessive.

I wouldn't put an SSD inside a regular office desktop just yet. For the CEO sure, but the office drone? Nah. Aside from specific work (e.g. image/video editing, AutoCAD, etc), there's really no need to use add-in video cards, either, when onboard video works just as well.

By the way, our office actually has a lot of proprietary form factor desktops. Then again, they're Dell Optiplexes with service contracts.

dhanson865
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Post by dhanson865 » Tue Mar 30, 2010 1:45 pm

b_rubenstein wrote:I read some of these posts and wonder if any of these people have ever been in an office aside from a Take your kid to work day

SSD's? Add in video cards? Right...
viewtopic.php?p=505079&highlight=#505079

You might think it odd but at my company the average PC has 2 monitors and the integrated video on your average Dell will only drive 1. Maybe if you buy the right consumer grade motherboard you can do 2 monitors on integrated graphics but I can say with certainty that 8x% of the PCs in my business can't do 2 from the integrated. I'll be testing the newest batch with the 780G and 785G chipsets to see if they can. They have one HDMI and one VGA. Of course none of my monitors have HDMI inputs so if it is going to work it'll have to be by way of a cable/adapter. I ordered a <$5 cable off of monoprice but as of yet I haven't gotten a chance to test it.

It's not unheard of around here for a PC to have more than one video card. No gaming, no video editing, nothing but paper pushing, excel, web apps but someone figured out that a worker could process more work with 2 screens than they could constantly alt tabbing or minimize/maximizing.

So here I am at work with the duty to make sure every PC in the building can handle 2 flat screen monitors and sometimes in the process a machine ends up being able to handle 3 or 4 just as a side effect of trying to get the best display quality on 2.

Next you'll tell me that flat screen monitors are excessive. Like they don't allow you to cram more workers in the same space given the extra 15" of depth you can cut off of a ~20" monitor.

At this point I'm still buying hard drives. Honestly I can get two 500GB drives for the price of a 40GB intel SSD but I expect some time this year I'll stop buying new hard drives.

When that happens, I'll be buying SSDs for the newer PCs and taking the faster hard drives out of new PCs and handing them down to older PCs that have slower hard drives.

I've seen some companies already make the switch. I know they are ahead of the curve but if you aren't thinking about it you have your head too far down in the trench to see whats coming.

I'm surprised that you considered building your own as cheaper than buying prebuilt but I can see the upside in having control of the total build process.

BlackWhizz
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Post by BlackWhizz » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:39 am

What are these office PC's used for?

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