Best mobo for low power consumption / HTPC build

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ferretmania
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Best mobo for low power consumption / HTPC build

Post by ferretmania » Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:13 pm

Gracias for reading my post!!!

Thanks to the Intel SB chipset fiasco, I like many others am sitting on parts deciding whether to build now and RMA later in April or send in the whole shebang to newegg for a refund and then wait for the new/improved mobos.

Primary uses for new build:
1) MS Office
2) light Photoshop
3) light audio and video file editing
4) burning cds and dvds for large archiving project

On hand:
Asus P8p67 Pro mobo + Core i2400s (the "green" cpu), Antec P150 case, Corsair 520W PSU (3 years old), XFX Radeon 4770 (dual head 2 x dvi)

I bought this combination with a goal of doing a quiet, relatively low power consumption build.

After making the purchase, I did more research and learned that the H67 boards -- even when running with a discrete graphics card -- consume less energy than the P67 boards (which, I now know, have all kinds of cool features that I will never use).

Now that I have the opportunity to immediately RMA both mobo and CPU (thanks to newegg) and given thatoverclocking and crossfire/sli aren't important, I'm wondering about switching to an H67 board when they are re-released in April.

Specifically, I'm looking at these full size atx boards: Intel DH67CL mobo, AUSUS P8H67 and Gigabyte GA-H67A-UD3H.

I would appreciate your comments on the wisdom of switching from P67 to H67 mobo to save power. Also which board is the best in terms of price/performance.

Finally, with the uses I listed above, is there any reason to swap the "green" iCore 2400s for a
straight 2500 (no oc) cpu?


The best info on power consumption that I could find after much research is shown in the charts below taken from (where else) silentpcreview. Sorry for all the charts. But in posing this question in other forums, I noticed a lack of data-based analysis. Because I'm particularly interested in understanding the potential energy savings of H67 vs P67 mobos over the expected 3-4 life of the new build (when there's a lot of sytem-on idle time), I thought some actual test data would be useful for those who take the time to post.

Your thoughts and advice are most appreciated!

_____________________________________________________________________________
POWER CONSUMPTION

The Intel DP67BG and Gigabyte GA-P67A-UD4 were pitted against each other with a Core i5-2500K processor at stock settings, with Gigabyte's DES energy saving feature enabled, and overclocked. As P67 requires a discrete graphics card, we used an AMD Radeon HD 5450, which has a fairly low power draw.

We normally do not include power consumption figures for boards when they are turned off or in S3 sleep as these figures are usually not worth mentioning (typically 1W and 2W respectively measured from the wall). However, both boards were unusual power hungry in this regard. Our P67A-UD4 test system pulled 3W AC when off and 3~4W when asleep. The DP67BG used only 1W when off but 4W during sleep.W AC when off and 3~4W when asleep. The DP67BG used only 1W when off but 4W during sleep.

Like many other Intel boards, the DP67BG has excellent energy efficiency, using about 4W less on average compared to the P67A-UD4. Gigabyte's DES feature made a minor adjustment to CPU voltage resulting in very little difference.

The P67 chipset seems to use more power than H67 as well. Compared to the DH67BL, the DP67BG used approximately 5W more when idle and playing video, though the tables turned on load with the P67 board posting a 3W advantage.
Image
Core i5-2500K Test Results

The tests were repeated with a Core i5-2500K, to see how the boards handle a more powerful processor. Often energy efficiency varies between boards depending on how high a load is pressed upon them.
Image

This last chart is from the P67 motherboard roundup at tomshardware.
Image

ces
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Re: Best mobo for low power consumption / HTPC build

Post by ces » Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:27 pm

S3 sleep has never worked reliably for me. I just keep my computer on 24/7. If that is what you do, the Intel boards will usually give you the lowest wattage utilization. But for some reason they don't use the best capacitors and those are the parts that often wear out first on in a motherboard.

If you are using S3, looks like Intel isn't the low wattage solution.

As for CPU chips, just go for the 2400. It is cheap. All of the Sandybridges automatically downclock and downvolt to under 4 watts at idle and to maybe 10 watts for active use like you describe. It makes little sense to pay extra for the slower s version when under most circumstances they will burn the same wattage.

If you leave your computer on 24/7, the most important number is the idle wattage.

ferretmania
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Re: Best mobo for low power consumption / HTPC build

Post by ferretmania » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:17 am

CES:

Thanks for the response and for teaching me about S3 sleep. Although I've been running XP Pro for the past 3 years, I haven't run across this term before.

Please clarify something for me. Am I correct in interpreting your response as saying "go with the h67" board because your computer -- if you tend to leave it engaged 24/7 -- will use less power with the H67 than P67 board?

One thing I'm confused about is this -- Is the difference in wattage consumption between the H67 and P67 boards significant when examined over a 3-4 year time horizon? In the US, electricity rates are absurdly cheap, so we're blessed with being able to overclock ourselves to death and never having to worry about the cost in electricity bills. Obviously, this can't last forever.

But I really am curious to know the truth about power consumption and efficiency. Call it ethical computing, but I think the question of power consumption really does matter.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Best mobo for low power consumption / HTPC build

Post by quest_for_silence » Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:20 am

ferretmania wrote:Specifically, I'm looking at these full size atx boards: Intel DH67CL mobo, AUSUS P8H67 and Gigabyte GA-H67A-UD3H.

You might consider also the cheaper ASrock H67M-GE/HT for some interesting features (as the ability to run K processors with HD3000 graphics), which is aimed towards the HTPC market.
About the above mentioned boards, I'd choose that ASUS one throughout my life.
ferretmania wrote:I would appreciate your comments on the wisdom of switching from P67 to H67 mobo to save power. Also which board is the best in terms of price/performance.

Apart Intel's boards, as pointed out by SPCR, an H67 should consume less than an handful of watts under a relevant P67 power draw WHEN used with a discrete graphics.

Due to the H67 24fps issue (see Anandtech and Missing Remote), and the low overall performance of Intel IGP, I think it isn't so easy to foretell a meaningful price/performance ratio.

Maybe, due to your highlighted jobs (currently Photoshop isn't GPU-intensive but more CPU-bound), the Intel IGP would be fairly adequate, and as pointed out by another dutch SPCR forumer you should save up to about 35 euros/year (but for a 24hrs/7days use!) on your electricity bill with reference to an HD 5450 discrete graphics: now I can't recall how much your 4770 consumes, but I think it should do way more than a more efficient 5450. You have to do some math about.
ferretmania wrote:Finally, with the uses I listed above, is there any reason to swap the "green" iCore 2400s for a
straight 2500 (no oc) cpu?

The 2400S has a 10-15W advantage ONLY on CPU stress load, while being at least 20-25% less powerful than a regular 2500.
On idle, sleep, HTPC use, Office, burning CDs, you shouldn't save almost anything: IMHO it's a sufficient reason to switch over.

I think that some interesting efficiency data you might also find out at TechReport, Lost Circuits, Anandtech and Xbit Labs (currently the only one who's tested the 2400S, AFAIK).

ame
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Re: Best mobo for low power consumption / HTPC build

Post by ame » Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:16 am

I agree with the other posts, 2400S will not be more power efficient at idle thean a non S part. It seems all SNB parts idle at similar if not identical power consumption.

If your goal is a pure power efficient build (no intense gaming), I'd say swap it all and go with Intel DH67BL and 2500K combo and use the integrated 3000 GPU. Its perfectly capable of handling all your tasks. Its only in 3D games that the 4770 will pull ahead, but it will draw much more power at both idle and load.

BTW I also like the Asus P8H67 M EVO. It has some nice touches.

Edit: By nice toughes I mean FW port, extra SATA prot, and a second PCIex8 slot. As well as some heatspreading on the VRM area.

ferretmania
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Re: Best mobo for low power consumption / HTPC build

Post by ferretmania » Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:03 pm

ame, quest_for_silence, and ces:

Thanks so much for your incredibly helpful, specific, and expert advice! After my past experiences posting similar questions on gaming forums, it's really refreshing to be amongst people who take seriously the idea of minimizing power consumption. In the not too distant future, we here in the US are going to wake up and discover that our sources of cheap energy have disappeared forever!

Based your guidance, I elected to RMA both the Asus P67 pro mobo and the Core i2400s cpu. In April, or whenever the re-issued Sandybridge mobos start hitting the online vendors, I plan on ordering a plain vanilla i2500K and an H67 motherboard...probably the ASUS.

Gamers seem to hate the Intel boards with an almost rabid vengeance, often citing poor build quality. You gentlemen, however, seem to hold Intel boards (or at least the "67" series) in higher regard. So I'm not sure which way to go on the mobo.

Asus's UEFI gui for the system bios, a feature that is probably far more useful to overclocking gamers, does seem to offer some added value from what I've read. In the past I've found myself inside the bios often enough to think the UEFI gui might pay off.

But I'm still open-minded re: the Intel mobo and would benefit from any further experience you gents might have had with Intel mobos.

Again, many thanks to all of you for taking time to write such thorough and helpful responses!

Best wishes!

ces
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Re: Best mobo for low power consumption / HTPC build

Post by ces » Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:56 pm

ferretmania wrote:Please clarify something for me. Am I correct in interpreting your response as saying "go with the h67" board because your computer -- if you tend to leave it engaged 24/7 -- will use less power with the H67 than P67 board?
1. The intel board uses less electricity than Asus if you run it 24/7 - But more if you run them both on sleep most of the time, then Asus uses less electricity.

2. H67 uses the onboard video of the Sandy Bridge. P67 requires a video card. The onboard video will always use less electricity than a video card.
ferretmania wrote:One thing I'm confused about is this -- Is the difference in wattage consumption between the H67 and P67 boards significant when examined over a 3-4 year time horizon? In the US, electricity rates are absurdly cheap, so we're blessed with being able to overclock ourselves to death and never having to worry about the cost in electricity bills. Obviously, this can't last forever.
Basically, every watt you have on 24/7 for a year will cost you $1.00 over that year in most of the USA. In Alaska it is closer to $1.50 and in Hawaii it is closer to $2.00. Now that doesn't include any air conditioning costs. Run the computer in the summer, not only do you have to pay for the electricity to run the computer, but you have to pay for the electricity to remove from your home the extra heat it generates. I would take a wild guess and guess that would be an extra dollar prorated over the summer months (there are others here who would know what that would be better than I do).

If you are one of these people who generate your own electricity that is whole different set of economics. We have some of those people on this board. They tend to be exceedingly knowledgeable about reducing computer electrical use. One of them is Electrodaucus and the other is I think Mountainman or a similar name.
Last edited by ces on Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

ces
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Re: Best mobo for low power consumption / HTPC build

Post by ces » Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:59 pm

ferretmania wrote:I plan on ordering a plain vanilla i2500K and an H67 motherboard...probably the ASUS.
Your choice makes sense to me.

I don't think anyone likes Intel boards. They use cheaper capacitors and aren't good for overclocking or underclocking. But I think everyone respects them for low energy utilization. If that is what you are after it is pretty hard to beat them.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Best mobo for low power consumption / HTPC build

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:37 am

ferretmania wrote:I plan on ordering a plain vanilla i2500K and an H67 motherboard...probably the ASUS.[/b]

Unless you have different information, personally I would go for a plain vanilla i5 2500 (not the 2500K), over or even a regular i5 2400 (if the price difference should be noticeable) over that 2400S. Use the 2500K just in case (as for the ASrock H67M-GE/HT) the manufacturer itself tells officially you that their H67 board may exploit the K-series processors (if you should have doubts about that, ask directly to the manufacturer and (r)etailer Tech Support services before purchasing).

ame
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Re: Best mobo for low power consumption / HTPC build

Post by ame » Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:42 am

The reason for recomending K is the better GPU. The price diff is minor

Id stick to your plan and go with 2500k and Asus H67 evo

quest_for_silence
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Re: Best mobo for low power consumption / HTPC build

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:12 am

ame wrote:The reason for recomending K is the better GPU.

Unless he plans 3D-gaming with that IGP (well, I don't know any game which plays decently with something like a HD5450, but that doesn't matter), the GPU Intel HD3000 (K-series) isn't any better than a regular HD2000 one, AFAIK.

ces
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Re: Best mobo for low power consumption / HTPC build

Post by ces » Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:34 am

quest_for_silence wrote:Unless he plans 3D-gaming with that IGP (well, I don't know any game which plays decently with something like a HD5450, but that doesn't matter), the GPU Intel HD3000 (K-series) isn't any better than a regular HD2000 one, AFAIK.
There are any performance attributes that people measure when they review video cards.

Do you know which attributes are associated with which elements of user interface performance?

Do you know which are specifically related to 2 dimensional performance such as the rapid and crisp display of a browser window or a MS word window. Or how about the handling of the "Aero" elements of a display? Or the display of a photoshop window?

If you don't, does anyone else know?

quest_for_silence
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Re: Best mobo for low power consumption / HTPC build

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:02 am

ces wrote:There are any performance attributes that people measure when they review video cards.

Do you know which attributes are associated with which elements of user interface performance?

Do you know which are specifically related to 2 dimensional performance such as the rapid and crisp display of a browser window or a MS word window. Or how about the handling of the "Aero" elements of a display? Or the display of a photoshop window?

If you don't, does anyone else know?

I haven't understood your questions, ces.

ces
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Re: Best mobo for low power consumption / HTPC build

Post by ces » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:56 am

quest_for_silence wrote:
ces wrote:There are any performance attributes that people measure when they review video cards.

Do you know which attributes are associated with which elements of user interface performance?

Do you know which are specifically related to 2 dimensional performance such as the rapid and crisp display of a browser window or a MS word window. Or how about the handling of the "Aero" elements of a display? Or the display of a photoshop window?

If you don't, does anyone else know?

I haven't understood your questions, ces.
There are different things that a video graphics system will do well or poorly. Here is an example of Anand picking them apart on a smart phone:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4144/lg-o ... artphone/8

It might be that a video card that is best of class at one thing, trails at another. And I doubt that it is just games vs. all else. I am certain that there are more differences in performance to discern... and that might impact a person's decision making. Does anyone know what they are.

The world is not as simple as it is made out to be by marketers pitching high horsepower automobile engines and high horsepower video cards to adolescents. What are the subtleties in video performance that are being glossed over? They have to exist. For example despite all the hoopla around the latest $400 video card, there are workstation cards, that probably don't play games that well, that cost $2,000. They must be doing something better.

Are there perhaps some elements of performance that the Sandy Bridge integrated graphics does even better than a $300 gaming card? If there was, how would I know?
Last edited by ces on Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Best mobo for low power consumption / HTPC build

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:48 am

Apart of Sandy Bridge, broadly speaking I've no answer. I'm not sure even if your questions are well put.

IIRC there is a short articles series on Tom's Hardware on modern card 2D-acceleration, but IMVHO their alleged 2D-benchmark is somehow questionable (and their so-called tests IMVHO not definitely meaningful at all).

ces
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Re: Best mobo for low power consumption / HTPC build

Post by ces » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:51 am

quest_for_silence wrote:I'm not sure even if your questions are well put.
That may be. I am just doing the best I can in an area that I don't quite understand. Maybe someone else can better frame the question. Maybe someone would be kind enough to try to do so.

NTNgod
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Re: Best mobo for low power consumption / HTPC build

Post by NTNgod » Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:30 pm

quest_for_silence wrote:Unless he plans 3D-gaming with that IGP (well, I don't know any game which plays decently with something like a HD5450, but that doesn't matter), the GPU Intel HD3000 (K-series) isn't any better than a regular HD2000 one, AFAIK.
If you're planning on using QuickSync, the extra EUs on the 3000 provide a bit more speed.

Also, while the price differences may vary elsewhere, in the US, it's quite doable to get a 2500K for only a couple bucks more - or even cheaper - than a 2400 (for instance, if you live near a MicroCenter or buy online from someone who bought a few of the MicroCenter deals). I paid about $200 US total for my 2500K. The cheapest I could find the 2400 for was $190 (NewEgg was charging $195).

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