SPCR

I'm preparing to start sale-watching for a build in late April.

Now with revisions! (I wish the forum had strikethrough... Discarded options in grey)

CPU:
i7-2600K / i5-2500K
Motherboard:
ASUS P8P67 Pro / ASUS P8P67 LE / ASUS P8P67 EVO
Video:
ASUS GTX-560 Ti 1GB
PSU:
Seasonic SS-560KM / Seasonic X650 / Seasonic M12II 520W
RAM:
16GB (4 x 4GB) G.SKILL DDR3-1333 CAS 9
Case:
Fractal Design Arc Midi / Fractal Design Define R3 / Corsair 650D / CoolerMaster 690 II Advanced
Case Fans:
Scythe Kama Flow 2 / Scythe Kama Flex PWM / Scythe Slipstream PWM / Akasa Apache PWM
CPU Cooler:
Xigmatek Dark Knight/Gaia / Coolermaster Hyper 212+
OS Drive:
Corsair Force F120 / Vertex 3 / Other (help!)
App Drive:
1TB Caviar Blue EALX / 1TB Caviar Black FAEX / Samsung F4EG / 1.5TB WD Caviar Green (EARS) / Samsung F3
ODD:
ASUS SATA DVD-RW
OS:
Windows 7 Professional OEM

Primary points of concern are:

CPU: I'll be using this for coding/development, some gaming (moderate FPS, RPG, TBS @ 1680x1050), and running some Linux VM instances to do testing. I'll probably see some improvement with the 2600K, but is it really worth $100? Is there any workload except video encoding that sees strong improvement from hyperthreading?

Case: I'm still struggling with this. I have a P182 right now, but it struggles to get fresh air (possibly due to its location). The P183 has been vetoed (not pretty enough). The R3 is an easy choice, but it will probably have the same issues as the P182. The Arc Midi has better airflow, but that's because its got a lot of mesh. Could it be quieted? The 650D looks great, but it would also need attention to reduce noise, and its projected $200 price tag might not be justifiable. I'm leaning toward the Arc Midi right now, but I'm worried about all that mesh.

SSD: I've selected a dozen drives already. All of them are fast. All of them are way better than my WD6400AAKS. And yet, I can't seem to settle on one. The M4/C400 might be about right, but then again, a Sandforce 1200 might be indistinguishable.

PSU: All of the above PSUs seem excellent. Is there a good reason (a $30 reason) to prefer the X Series?

Video: This is an nVidia card using a derivative of the DirectCU cooler that reviewed well here. This card uses two fans instead of one, however, and I'm not sure if that's better or worse.

App Drive: It would be really nice if I could get a drive that would be quiet. However, it's going to act as an application drive for everything that doesn't get put on the SSD, possibly including some games. Would a WD Green be noticeably slower than an F3 or WD Blue/Black? Bulk storage (music, movies, photos) is going to be stored on a network device, so the 1.5TB size is excessive, yet the prices for 500GB-1.5TB drives are so close that I might as well go for the 1.5TB, right?

You have pretty much stated item for item what I'm toying with upgrading to!

I am very happy with my C300 / 2x500GB WD green drive setup (although I have a variety of RAID 0 and RAID 1 volumes across the two HDDs). If IO is a big deal, I just throw that application on the SSD. It's hard to rack up 100GB of games (you are currently playing)

I just built a new rig for coding, see my other thread for my build.

CPU: its not worth the money IMO, for coding my #1 goal is high GHZ, and 2500k is supposed to be a lot easier to overclock than the 2600k, so I went with it. visual studio doesn't compile using threads unless you are compiling multiple projects at the same time (which I never do) so having a 20 core cpu is worthless.

SSD: get the fastest you can afford, downgrade memory if needed.

I did extensive benchmarking between my old desktop, a i740qm notebook, my 2500k at stock, and my 2500k at 5ghz for visual studio, let me know if you want the results.

CPU: Everything I've seen shows synthetic benchmarks and video encoding benefiting from hyperthreading. I don't think it will make a difference for you. Save the $100 for something else (your case maybe?)

CASE: You might be surprised, but the P183 grew on me over time. And it's very quiet. =D

PSU: The gold rating on the X-series makes it very tempting for me. Plus the fact that the fan stays off until it reaches ~50% load if I remember correctly. Be on the lookout for sales. I've seen the X650 as low as $95, and the X750 is on sale at Newegg right now ($130).

SSD: If you're building a machine for work, I would think that reliability would be your no.1 concern. You might want to consider going with an established SSD instead of one of the newest ones on the market. OCZ Vertex2 and Intel G2 both would be on my list. Both are very fast, and cheap enough to not preclude an upgrade in a year or two.

App Drive: If you don't need the storage, I'd recommend a 1 or 2 platter 7200rpm drive over a larger green drive. The performance difference will be noticeable for games. My favorite for a long time has been the WD Black 640GB drive (I have 3 in different computers). May have been superseded by a 2 platter 1TB drive in recent times.

When the time comes, please post your experiences. I am interested in building a similar computer for a friend.

Best,
--Jonathan

Rasterman wrote:CPU: its not worth the money IMO, for coding my #1 goal is high GHZ, and 2500k is supposed to be a lot easier to overclock than the 2600k, so I went with it. visual studio doesn't compile using threads unless you are compiling multiple projects at the same time (which I never do) so having a 20 core cpu is worthless.

The bulk of my coding is done in Eclipse, which does use multiple threads for compilation, even if its not doing parallel compilation. And while I am writing multi-threaded code, its not really intense work, such as encoding/decoding, compression, or encryption, just multi-threaded I/O.

Rasterman wrote:SSD: get the fastest you can afford, downgrade memory if needed.

That's good advice... if only everyone agreed on what that was.

dragonfire wrote:CPU: Everything I've seen shows synthetic benchmarks and video encoding benefiting from hyperthreading. I don't think it will make a difference for you. Save the $100 for something else (your case maybe?)

This seems to be the consensus... and yet the 2600K is still popular. Such is the world.

dragonfire wrote:CASE: You might be surprised, but the P183 grew on me over time. And it's very quiet. =D

Oh, I'm well aware. I have a P182 right now. However, the build needs to sit in my living room and so aesthetics play a (strong) part. While the P182 was acceptable with its flat-front panel, the vents on the P183 make it questionable. After presenting the option to all relevant parties, the P183 was vetoed as... not fitting in.

dragonfire wrote:PSU: The gold rating on the X-series makes it very tempting for me. Plus the fact that the fan stays off until it reaches ~50% load if I remember correctly. Be on the lookout for sales. I've seen the X650 as low as $95, and the X750 is on sale at Newegg right now ($130).

I'm a fan of the X650 and the SS-560KM is from the same line (so I'm told). It's just a question of whether its worth the $30 over the M12II.

dragonfire wrote:SSD: If you're building a machine for work, I would think that reliability would be your no.1 concern.

While I use the box for development, its not "work". I do open source coding in my spare time. A hobby, I guess. I still like reliability, but its not needed to pay the rent. Even then, I haven't been able to come to any strong conclusion on which SSD to buy.

dragonfire wrote:App Drive: If you don't need the storage, I'd recommend a 1 or 2 platter 7200rpm drive over a larger green drive.

I had been considering the WD 640GB Blue, or 640GB Black, but then I realized that all the drives were piling up at that price point and that I could double the space and get a quieter drive. I've heard people talk about drive performance while gaming, but I don't know how much it really matters. Is a drop from 110GB/s to 90GB/s really going to make a difference for gaming? Is the seek time so much lower on the Green drives that it matters?

dragonfire wrote:When the time comes, please post your experiences. I am interested in building a similar computer for a friend.

Definitely. There will probably be some more odd stuff happening with it, and I'd like to post photos of the build stages. Just for fun, I guess.

For the case, you may consider the Cooler Master CM 690 II advanced. the front is meshed all right, but you can just put the intake fans in the bottom and then cover the front mesh.
It should have plenty of airflow

figment wrote:CPU:
i7-2600K / i5-2500K

As you already note you should choose the i7 ONLY if your apps/ide/compilers may exploit the extra threads (otherwise, spare happily and go for the i5): you have to do some homework about your current apps feature/needs, I guess.
At anyway, I don't think that choosing the one or the the other it will make definitely any regrettable difference.

figment wrote:Video:
ASUS GTX-560 Ti 1GB

Don't bank on that's really quiet, as its cooler should be rather agressive (59°C after 24hrs of FurMark, someone said on NewEgg): OTOH I don't think there will be anything really quieter at that performance level (moreover the Direct CU-II with the similar 6950 it has proven to be good at gaming loads, about same level that at idle).

figment wrote:PSU:
Seasonic SS-560KM / Seasonic X650 / Seasonic M12II 520W

The X-560 (aka SS-560KM) should be the best among them.
The M12II is moderately noisy by nowadays standards.

figment wrote:Case:
Fractal Design Arc Midi / Fractal Design Define R3 / Corsair 650D / ???

I guess that with an high performance card the R3 should be preferred.
I have the 600T which is basically the 650D with a different suit: till now, after some tweaks, it's still louder than my previous P182 (mostly due to stock 200mm fans).
With a proper damping it would be done, but the 650D already costs (here in Italy) twice an R2.

figment wrote:Case Fans:
Scythe S-Flex and Slipstream PWM / Akasa Apache PWM

For the PWM, I would rather even the Kama Flex PWM over the Akasa. An outsider could be the Enermax Cluster.
About the 3-pins fans, the newer Kama Flow 2 may be preferred over the venerable S-Flex.

figment wrote:CPU Cooler:
Xigmatek Dark Knight/Gaia / Coolermaster Hyper 212+

I don't know whether or not the Gaia is improved over the original Dark Knight: if not, the CM should be preferable.

figment wrote:OS Drive:
Unknown 128GB SSD (help!)

Either an OCZ Vertex 3 (Sandforce 2500, not still on shelves, AFAIK), a Corsair Performance 3 (Marvell C400/9174), or an Intel SSD 510 (Marvell C400/9174) should be the current top performers.
The Corsair should be actually on sale and also be the cheaper.
Other (older) SSDs should be preferred only for great deals (any proven SandForce 1200), or for reliability worries (Intel X-25M).
On April maybe Intel would sell the X-25M heir, the SSD 320 (Intel G2.5/G3?), and it definitely may worth a look.

figment wrote:App Drive:
1.5TB WD Caviar Green (EARS) / Samsung F3

I would go for a WD, but at anyway take note that either an F2 or an F4 should be better than the F3.
Talking about 5400rpm 3,5" drives, with an USB3 connection I would consider even an external Seagate Freeagent GoFlex Pro (as a data drive), but it would be also far more expensive.
A 7200rpm IMVHO doesn't worth: at anyway an elastic suspension will help a lot quietening it.

quest_for_silence wrote:Don't bank on [the ASUS GTX 560 Ti being] really quiet, as its cooler should be rather agressive (59°C after 24hrs of FurMark, someone said on NewEgg): OTOH I don't think there will be anything really quieter at that performance level (moreover the Direct CU-II with the similar 6950 it has proven to be good at gaming loads, about same level that at idle).

The card I linked to is actually using a cooler as the 6850 reviewed here, just with a different contact plate and an extra fan. Sure, its two fans, but two quiet fans are better than one noisy fan. One of the reasons why this card appears to cool so well is that it exhausts into the case, rather than out a back vent. If you're testing it outside of a case or in a really well ventilated case, it's going to do really well. If you use it in an enclosed case, its going to stay quiet, but raise the interior temperature level.

quest_for_silence wrote:The X-560 (aka SS-560KM) should be the best among them.
The M12II is moderately noisy by nowadays standards.

That's sort of how I was leaning. The M12II is cheaper, but I like the sound profile on the X-Series better.

quest_for_silence wrote:I guess that with an high performance card the R3 should be preferred.
I have the 600T which is basically the 650D with a different suit: till now, after some tweaks, it's still louder than my previous P182 (mostly due to stock 200mm fans).
With a proper damping it would be done, but the 650D already costs (here in Italy) twice an R2.

Yes, the prices seem to be: Arc Midi: $130, Define R3: $110, Corsair 650D: $200. The Arc is actually the best case for cooling, I expect. The Define would be the best for noise. The 650D would be the best for cable management and a balance of noise and cooling.

quest_for_silence wrote:For the PWM, I would rather even the Kama Flex PWM over the Akasa. An outsider could be the Enermax Cluster.

I actually have a cluster fan now (got it for free) and haven't had any problems with it. No bearing noise, obviously. I forgot that it was a PWM fan.

quest_for_silence wrote:About the 3-pins fans, the newer Kama Flow 2 may be preferred over the venerable S-Flex.

Very well. Clearly I need to re-evaluate my fan options. I'll have to try to conquer that once I figure out which case I'm getting.

quest_for_silence wrote:I don't know whether or not the Gaia is improved over the original Dark Knight: if not, the CM should be preferable.

The Gaia is based on the same HDT-S1283 design that Dark Knight came from, but with slightly cut down fins and the ability to set up push-pull. Of course, the Hyper 212+ is based on the same thing, and a little cheaper. It's just a question of fan, I guess. Or maybe not, as I'd probably get better performance by replacing it.

quest_for_silence wrote:I would go for a WD, but at anyway take note that either an F2 or an F4 should be better than the F3.

I'm re-examining the HD situation now and trying to come up with some Blue/Black drives to get comments on.

quest_for_silence wrote:Talking about 5400rpm 3,5" drives, with an USB3 connection I would consider even an external Seagate Freeagent GoFlex Pro (as a data drive), but it would be also far more expensive.
A 7200rpm IMVHO doesn't worth: at anyway an elastic suspension will help a lot quietening it.

I don't know that I'm comfortable with active apps running from a USB3 drive. If I was willing to take a speed hit, I'd just run from my network storage.

I've updated the original post:

• The 2500K is now my primary choice for CPU. I don't know what it would take for me to choose the 2600K, but its very unlikely.
• I've changed the preferences on the App Drive to put Caviar Blue/Black drives and the Samsung Spinpoint F4EG as the preferred choices. The F4EG looks like it would be quieter, but I can't find any benchmarks of it against Caviar Blues & Blacks.
• I've listed some possible choices for SSDs. It seems that the Sandforce drives might be the way to go. Perhaps I should add the older Intel drives as well.
• I've added the CM 690 II Advanced as a possible case. I still don't know how well the Arc Midi or 690 would do with noise, though. Anyone have experience with quieting the 690? I'd think the Arc Midi would be similar.
• I've changed the preferred fans to Scythe Kama Flows and Kama Flexes. I'll be using PWMs where possible for fan control. I haven't done in-depth research to figure out how many and what types of fans the ASUS boards can control.

figment wrote:I've changed the preferred fans to Scythe Kama Flows and Kama Flexes.

What is the difference?

figment wrote:Perhaps I should add the older Intel drives as well.

Those are looking very interesting to me. They are reliable... more so than others. They are more than fast enough. Maybe even the prices will come down.

ces wrote:

figment wrote:I've changed the preferred fans to Scythe Kama Flows and Kama Flexes.

What is the difference?

I had been considering Scythe S-Flexes for 3 pin fans and Slipstream PWMs or Akasa Apache's as PWM fans.