Fan Control on Sandy Bridge/Fractal R3 system

[evoeater]

Hello,

I have been a long time reader and really apprecaited all of the great advice on this site. I have tried to search for as much info as I can about this topic, but still need some advice about fan control. This build will be used for DAW, CAD, and some occasional gaming in the future (no video card to start). I live in LA and my computer room can be as high as 80-95F when I am using it in the summer. I only record occasionally, so I will cool the room down durring those times to 60-70f. I am mechinaccly adept, but need advice on how to best to control the CPU and Exhaust fan.

Here are the components I am looking at. Does anyone have any suggestions for better components? Would like to focus on cost savings or better for DAW use. The Processor and ram were purchased, but can be returned.

i7-2600K - (purchased $280 from Frys, so I went for it instead of the non-"k")

GA-Z68-UD3H-B3 (I like having descrete graphics, but don't know what I need to look for on PWM. Using a PCI interface for Daw. Like the z68 for flexibilty in overclocking and possible SSD SRT in the future.)

Fractal Design Define R3 (more cooling than 183 for hot days. Will cut out the rear fan shroud)

X650 Gold (picked from SPCR reviews)

4gb x2 Corsair XMS3 1600MHZ (Cheap and seemed ok. Purchased$40 after rebate. Should I set this to 1.5V and 1600MHZ in bios?)

Thermalright Ultra eXtreme 120 (Does the 1366 set work on 1155 too? Megahelems is another option )

Hitatchi Deskstar 7200RPM 1.5 TB (Looked good from some reviews, but would like comments)http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as ... 6822145520

I really need help in figuring out what fans to use and how to control them. From my research it looks like the following options exist. I am not sure yet which applies to the CPU verus the exhast fan. Also fan recommendations help. From reading the latest review, I would think I would want to lean toward a Noctua NF-S12-1200 for the higher CFM per dB but I am not sure.

• 1. Manual
  • a. Use the R3 fan controler
  • • i. Cheap and variable, but can’t dial down to 5V, so total quiet is limited.
  • b. Wire in a toggle switch to switch between 12V and 5V
  • • i. Easy but no middle range adustability
  2. Automatic
  • a. Use PWM header on MB to control fan
  • • i. How much can the Gigabyte board adjust this? Is there a seperate header for the CPU fan and Exhaust fan?

Thanks for your help. I will be buying everything in the next 2 weeks.

[Dr. Jim Pomatter]

This build will be used for DAW, CAD, and some occasional gaming in the future (no video card to start). I live in LA and my computer room can be as high as 80-95F when I am using it in the summer. I only record occasionally, so I will cool the room down durring those times to 60-70f. I am mechinaccly adept, but need advice on how to best to control the CPU and Exhaust fan.

Here are the components I am looking at. Does anyone have any suggestions for better components? Would like to focus on cost savings or better for DAW use. The Processor and ram were purchased, but can be returned.

i7-2600K - (purchased $280 from Frys, so I went for it instead of the non-"k")

The 2600K is the right choice if you are not going to have a graphics card and you are not worried about the total cost of your computer. The "K" versions have twice the number of graphics cores compared to the non-K (12 cores, rather then 6 cores).

You should find out if anyone is using the CAD software that you use with the Intel HD 3000 or Intel HD 2000 graphics.

If you want to save money, you could get a Pentium G840 for LGA 1155 for around $85. It is only a dual-core CPU and it will not overclock. It is still much faster then most of the computers that people are buying today.

If you pair the Pentium G840 with a AMD/ATI HD 5570 or 6570 or 6670 for another $65-90, you might get a better CAD and will get a better gaming experience. All of these cards can be found in passive versions (cooling without a on-card fan).

GA-Z68-UD3H-B3 (I like having descrete graphics, but don't know what I need to look for on PWM. Using a PCI interface for Daw. Like the z68 for flexibilty in overclocking and possible SSD SRT in the future.)

If you look at page 56 of the manual for the GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 you will see that it can only control one PWM fan. Your case fan can not use control, in fact the manual does not say anything about controlling a case fan. For my personal system, I'm waiting for the Ivy Bridge Gigabyte boards that (I hope) can control a couple of PWM case fans.

Intel's SSD SRT is not the best for someone who is recording. SRT will not let the magnetic disk shut down while letting you record to the SSD.

Fractal Design Define R3 (more cooling than 183 for hot days. Will cut out the rear fan shroud)

People around the forum have not been happy with the included fans on the R3. The 120 mm low-speed sleeve-bearing Nexus fans can be bought for $9-12 each. At a full 12 volts they only turn at 800-1000 rpm, but they do not move much air. In the SPCR reviews they are the reference fans.

Option 4: Get a cheaper case, one that can hold 2-4 reference Nexus 120mm fans to run at 12 volts, and use the Gigabyte PWM controls on the CPU cooling fan.

X650 Gold (picked from SPCR reviews)

Good choice for silence, as it will not run its fans unless you need them. The down side is that it will not help keep your case cool, and it may be hard to plan your inside-the-case airflow with a intermittent and high-powered PSU fan.

The Corsair TX750 V2 is not going to be as quiet, but it does run the fan all of the time. This means it is easy to plan your airflow.

4gb x2 Corsair XMS3 1600MHZ (Cheap and seemed ok. Purchased$40 after rebate. Should I set this to 1.5V and 1600MHZ in bios?)

Use an in-Windows utility to see what speed it is running at before you change anything. If it appears to be running slower then 1600 you should set it in the BIOS.

Web surfing, DAW, and gaming will fit inside 4GB of RAM. CAD programs can use huge amounts of memory if you have large and high-detail projects. You should try to find out how much memory your CAD program will use during your normal work. You may want to buy 8GB of RAM.

Thermalright Ultra eXtreme 120 (Does the 1366 set work on 1155 too? Megahelems is another option )

Nice cooler. You could save yourself a lot of money by using the Xigmatek Gaia SD1283. It is a good cooler, and it costs $15 less while including a high-quality PWM fan and vibration-isolating mounting hardware.

The 1366 mounts are wider then the 1155 mounts. The 1155 mounts are wider then the 775 mounts. (The 1156 mounts ARE the same as the 1155 mounts.)

Hitatchi Deskstar 7200RPM 1.5 TB (Looked good from some reviews, but would like comments)http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as ... 6822145520

The Hitatchi Deskstar 7200RPM 1.5 TB is a fine drive for most people, but not for you. The seek noise of the hard drive is a ping'ing sound that can show up on your recordings. The 7200 rpm drive will cause vibrations that might be noticeable.

The SAMSUNG Spinpoint F4EG HD155UI 1.5TB 5400 RPM might be a better choice. It is a 5400 rpm drive, and it will use slower seek speeds.

You might want to consider an SSD, as they are silent. I would suggest that you save money on other parts of the computer, so that you can afford a 160GB or a 300GB Intel 320 SSD. Adding another $300-550 to your computer bill might not be something you are comfortable with.

I really need help in figuring out what fans to use and how to control them. From my research it looks like the following options exist. I am not sure yet which applies to the CPU verus the exhast fan. Also fan recommendations help. From reading the latest review, I would think I would want to lean toward a Noctua NF-S12-1200 for the higher CFM per dB but I am not sure.

I have the NF-S12-1200 and it is quiet when you use the Ultra-Low-Noise adapter. With this adapter, it does not move much air.

People have been saying that newer ASUS boards have 3 levels for the PWM case & CPU fans. You can set Min and Max speeds at temperatures. You can also define the slope of the temperature vs fan speed curve for the middle.

Most current Gigabyte boards only let you define a slope of the PWM value to temperature. You can not define a Min and Max. They also only control a CPU fan, not a case fan.

Option 3: You can buy an after-market fan controller.

• 1. Manual
  • a. Use the R3 fan controler
  • • i. Cheap and variable, but can’t dial down to 5V, so total quiet is limited.
  • b. Wire in a toggle switch to switch between 12V and 5V
  • • i. Easy but no middle range adustability
  2. Automatic
  • a. Use PWM header on MB to control fan
  • • i. How much can the Gigabyte board adjust this? Is there a seperate header for the CPU fan and Exhaust fan?

Thanks for your help. I will be buying everything in the next 2 weeks.

I would choose option #4 above. Use case fans that are quiet at 12 volts. Then be sure that you are using a PWM fan on the CPU, and set up the motherboard's CPU fan control system.

I think I'm in the same boat that you are, unable to get everything I want and feel I need in one board.

I want to get ASUS's fan control, but ASUS uses cheap on-board sound chips that only get 88-92 decibels of signal-to-noise. Only Gigabyte uses 103+ decibel signal-to-noise chips for their on-board sound, but they do not control the fan noise as effectively as ASUS.

[Abula]

I want to get ASUS's fan control, but ASUS uses cheap on-board sound chips that only get 88-92 decibels of signal-to-noise. Only Gigabyte uses 103+ decibel signal-to-noise chips for their on-board sound, but they do not control the fan noise as effectively as ASUS.

What about the ASUS Maximus IV Gene-Z LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard that comes with Audio Chipset: SupremeFX X-Fi 2.

Audio
SupremeFX X-Fi 2 built-in 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC
- Supports : Jack-detection, Multi-streaming, Front Panel Jack-retasking
Audio Feature :
- X-Fi® Xtreme Fidelity™
- EAX® Advanced™ HD 5.0
- THX® TruStudio PRO™
- Creative ALchemy
- Blu-ray audio layer Content Protection
- Optical S/PDIF out port(s) at back panel

Btw good detailed helpful post you did.

@OP, check the fan control on Asus boards, i know this is not the same as i posted above, but will give you an idea on how Asus is designing their bios/uefi, and the fan control ASUS Sabertooth 990FX Motherboard Overview (AMD Bulldozer) | JJ's Corner. For sure in my case im going with Asus in my next build. Also if you want, check my post in component choice, a lot applies or could be useful here.

[honeymonster]

My recent experience with socket 1155 Gigabyte motherboards is they suffer from electric squeal! And this becomes the most noticeable noise in the entire system (fans and hard-drives low frequency rumbles/wooshes are comfortable to listen to in comparison)

It's not scientific as I have only used 1 of each (2 different gigabytes) on socket 1155, but MSI and ASUS have been silent, squeal wise...

[Abula]

Just adding a video of the mobo,

Official ASUS Maximus IV Gene-Z Motherboard Unboxing - Episode 16

Man i wasnt suppose to upgrade, you guys making me

Edit: Upon on looking at the video, although its only 480p, it seems all 5 mobo fan connectors are 4pin, im guessing all are PWM (most mobos only come with 2x 4pin PWM and 3x 3pin). What im not sure is if the mobo can control all 5, but seems so.

[CA_Steve]

Might check and see if your DAW and CAD apps utilize 4 cores...if so, I would not get a 2 core G840.

[spaciousmind]

I don't know if this is helpful as my parts are slightly different, but I just got a new build (in the p183) with the sandybridge i5 2500k chip on a gigabyte H67MA-USB3-B3 motherboard, I installed a cheap rheosmart 3 channel fan controller to control the two case fans (slipstream 1200RPM) with manual control which keeps them down to about 450RPM, and they are pretty much silent at that speed as far as I can tell (or the other noises just make them not noticable to my ear).

the motherboard comes with one cpu and one system fan header. . .. at the moment ive got one of the case fans feeding back into the system fan just so I can read the RPMs (as its being controlled by the rheosmart)
the stock intel cpu fan now is the loudest thing in my case, I managed to get it down to 1000rpm using gigabytes easytune 6 utility, but thats as low as it will go.
I don't know if this applies to aftermarket coolers and what options there are for controlling them, but I really need to replace that loud intel fan!

As for the CAD software im pretty sure all of that stuff should have full multithreading capabilities by now, so it would definately pay to go with a quad core (check your softwares documentation)..... I plan on doing a bit of 3dstudio max on this system, hopefully I can get away with it on here (I have no video card). I can try it out and let you know how it performs on my system if you want to be sure.

[ame]

As for the CAD software im pretty sure all of that stuff should have full multithreading capabilities by now, so it would definately pay to go with a quad core (check your softwares documentation)..... I plan on doing a bit of 3dstudio max on this system, hopefully I can get away with it on here (I have no video card). I can try it out and let you know how it performs on my system if you want to be sure.

If you plan to do any type of CAD or 3DS Max on your system a dedicated video card is gonna give you a VERY noticeable boost to your workflow. I'd go for a Quadro 600 or higher if you can afford it. Some cheaper Geforce card may do the trick too.

Thermalright Ultra eXtreme 120 (Does the 1366 set work on 1155 too? Megahelems is another option )

AFAIK the 1366 and 1155 are different in mounts and backplates.

As far as signal to noise and overall quality of the sound card goes it is strongly recommended do get a dedicated Audio Interface (fancy word for a semi-pro -> pro sound card). Don't pay extra for a pricey mobo just for the integrated sound card. It is consumer grade and designed for users to enjoy music and games, not for audio work.

All DAWs are well threaded so i7 is the way to go.

[evoeater]

Thank you all for the great help. I have been researching around and made some changes on my build.

I like the Asus Maximum IV, but it does not have a PCI slot. Also, since I have a PCI sound card, the signal to noise ratio will not affect me. I have found out that a lot of OEM DAW builder are using the Asus P8Z68 v or v-Pro as for audio work it is one of most stable z68 boards out there. Also, it has (2) 4 wire fan connectors (one Chassis, one CPU) so I can use it to dial down the two fans. This will let me have lower noise in cooler temps, but still the capacity to increase flow when needed. I know this is not the typical "Quiet" build methodology, but I think it will work best for my situation.

In the CAD environment, you all were correct. I need a dedicated graphics card to really run them properly. I think at this time, I will just build it with out one, and add it later to save some initial cost.

Which brings me to my last question about hard drives. DR Jim brought up a great point about how the HD sound will be the most noticeable above the even fan sound and could show up on recordings.

SSD (90~128GB) frequently used programs: Win 7, DAW (Reaper, Reason), Small sample libraries, Photoshop
HDD (1.5 TB) occasionally used: Pictures and Music (200GB), OFFICE 2010, media programs (iTunes, Picasa), Games, CAD (Solidworks)

I know that a 5400RPM drive would be best for the HDD noise, but would it have a significant negative impact on pulled data into SSD loaded programs? (E.g. photos into Photoshop).

Also, would a 7200RPM drive be silent when I am only using the SSD(recording) or will vibration still be an issue?

I had considered SSD an expensive luxury, but now I am trying to see how I can fit one in.

Thanks again for all your help.

[cmh]

For a mobo, what about the Intel DZ68DB? Three four-pin PWM fan headers (CPU plus front and rear chassis fans), three PCI slots, and $40 less than the basic Asus Z68? Just an idea...

[kuzzia]

If you use an ASUS mo-bo, you'll most likely be able to use the AI Suite. Though it has some flaws, it can control the PWM fan on the CPU heatsink very well. Fans can be controlled down to 10%! Also, you can customize your own fan speed/temperature curve. My stock Scythe Mugen 2 fan runs at 10% (200-300 rpm) until approx. 65 C. After that, the fan starts to run faster. With Folding@Home in the background, my CPU fan runs very well-behaved at around the forementioned 200-300 rpm at about 45-50 C. Perhaps you should consider the Scythe Mugen 2, when you would not need to consider which fan to run with the CPU heatsink.

Not having a SSD for a system of your budget would be quite wasteful. I say go for the SSD to complement the rest of your system despite your specific needs.

My personal recommendations aside, what else do you need advice on, besides the harddisk issue?

[Abula]

I know that a 5400RPM drive would be best for the HDD noise, but would it have a significant negative impact on pulled data into SSD loaded programs? (E.g. photos into Photoshop).

Also, would a 7200RPM drive be silent when I am only using the SSD(recording) or will vibration still be an issue?

I had considered SSD an expensive luxury, but now I am trying to see how I can fit one in.

I think an SSD is a really nice upgrade, if you can fit it inside your budget. With Sandy Bridge, i would probably go with Crucial C4,
Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) $116
Crucial M4 CT128M4SSD2 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) $220

There are ways to save a lot of space, with ssds bieng so fast on booting, you can disable hibernation, this will give you 2-4gb back. In most cases system restore is recommended to be turn of to avoid uneeded writing and wearing of the drive, this will drop you 6-8gb, there are other tweaks you can do, but this are two biggest that will return a lot of space. In my case, with windows 7 sp1 + Office 2010 + Starcraft 2 + other random apps and docs i use im at 30GB, i could easily live with 64gb (60gb real) ssd, but went with 120gb for future games

For storage, i would go laptop 2.5 Hitachi 5k500b or 3.5 Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EARS 1TB

[evoeater]

For a mobo, what about the Intel DZ68DB? Three four-pin PWM fan headers (CPU plus front and rear chassis fans), three PCI slots, and $40 less than the basic Asus Z68? Just an idea...

@cmh, I like the Asus fan control, two PCI-e, and overclocking stability, but the main reason I like the z68 is that it has been well tested in DAW applications. The board is very low noise and can be dialed down to very low DPC latency. Since there are not a lot of info on other boards, I am leaning to what is working for others.

Thanks for the tip though, as I was not aware of that board and looks perfect for another build for my brother.

If you use an ASUS mo-bo, you'll most likely be able to use the AI Suite. Though it has some flaws, it can control the PWM fan on the CPU heatsink very well. Fans can be controlled down to 10%! Also, you can customize your own fan speed/temperature curve. My stock Scythe Mugen 2 fan runs at 10% (200-300 rpm) until approx. 65 C. After that, the fan starts to run faster. With Folding@Home in the background, my CPU fan runs very well-behaved at around the forementioned 200-300 rpm at about 45-50 C. Perhaps you should consider the Scythe Mugen 2, when you would not need to consider which fan to run with the CPU heatsink.

Not having a SSD for a system of your budget would be quite wasteful. I say go for the SSD to complement the rest of your system despite your specific needs. My personal recommendations aside, what else do you need advice on, besides the harddisk issue?

Glad to finally hear from someone with experience with the Asus bios. Are their any issues with running fans down that low? I don't know if the PWM has a better startup/control then undervoltage. Also which fans are you running?

I think an SSD is a really nice upgrade, if you can fit it inside your budget. With Sandy Bridge, i would probably go with Crucial C4,
Crucial M4 CT064M4SSD2 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) $116
Crucial M4 CT128M4SSD2 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) $220

There are ways to save a lot of space, with ssds bieng so fast on booting, you can disable hibernation, this will give you 2-4gb back. In most cases system restore is recommended to be turn of to avoid uneeded writing and wearing of the drive, this will drop you 6-8gb, there are other tweaks you can do, but this are two biggest that will return a lot of space. In my case, with windows 7 sp1 + Office 2010 + Starcraft 2 + other random apps and docs i use im at 30GB, i could easily live with 64gb (60gb real) ssd, but went with 120gb for future games

For storage, i would go laptop 2.5 Hitachi 5k500b or 3.5 Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EARS 1TB

Thanks Abula. For programs that will use the data from the HDD (Photoshop) is it worthwile to still put the program on the SDD or is the program performance limited by the HDD speed? I know it will be quieter but I have a hard time useing a 5400rpm "Green" drive to feed data to a fast SSD. Are my concerns unfounded?

You guys are awesome!

[Abula]

Thanks Abula. For programs that will use the data from the HDD (Photoshop) is it worthwile to still put the program on the SDD or is the program performance limited by the HDD speed? I know it will be quieter but I have a hard time useing a 5400rpm "Green" drive to feed data to a fast SSD. Are my concerns unfounded?

This is very specific to each, i dont work with photoshop or know how much dependable from your data will be. HDDs lack in many aspects to ssds, to me the biggest are lactency and access time, both ssds are miles a head, transfer rates are 2x to 5x more than mechanicals. Now 5400rpm drives have very bad access time, but still have very good transfer rates in some cases very similar to 7200rpm drives, so this makes them not ideal for loading programs or OS, but still nice to handle data, like movies, pictures, etc. Now i dont work with photoshop to know the difference of ssd + 5400/7200 rpm drive, but personally for the price i would give a try to the 5400rpm, i just cant stand loud hdds, if you feel its not adecaute you can always just upgrade to 7200rpm drive and use the 5400rpm drive for external storage/backup.

If you still want to go with 7200rpm drive, check SPCR recommended list. I still have 1 7200rpm drive running, a Samsung HD502HJ, not silent , but not that noisy, its a 1 platter 500gb drive, so in case you go with 7200rpm try to go with one with the least platters. As an alternative, there is also 7200rpm laptop drives, the fastest on this category is the Western Digital WD Scorpio Black 750 GB SATA 3 GB/s 7200 RPM 16 MB Cache Internal Bulk/OEM 2.5-Inch Mobile Hard Drive, never tried it personally, but might be worth checking.

Remember there are alternatives like suspending the drives or dumping them on boxes to silence the drives even more.

[kuzzia]

Glad to finally hear from someone with experience with the Asus bios. Are their any issues with running fans down that low? I don't know if the PWM has a better startup/control then undervoltage. Also which fans are you running?

No issues at all. I'm surprised that a fan spinning at such a low speed can have such a great impact on thermals compared to fanless cooling. There's no problem with starting voltage at all because the ASUS mo-bo runs the fan at 100 % for a few seconds during boot-up. Sort of a kick-starter.
Do you mean my entire system or just the CPU heat-sink? The answer to the latter is the excellent stock fan.

[Dr. Jim Pomatter]

Thank you all for the great help.

You are welcome. Pay us back by helping other people in any way you can.

[ASUS] has (2) 4 wire fan connectors (one Chassis, one CPU) so I can use it to dial down the two fans. This will let me have lower noise in cooler temps, but still the capacity to increase flow when needed. I know this is not the typical "Quiet" build methodology, but I think it will work best for my situation.

Asus has the best fan control. As you are not using the better integrated sound of the Gigabyte, then Asus is the best choice. You can get a PWM splitter, so that you can have 2 PWM fans on each header (only one fan reports RPM).

In the CAD environment, you all were correct. I need a dedicated graphics card to really run them properly. I think at this time, I will just build it with out one, and add it later to save some initial cost.

A fine idea, if you don't need to use the CAD software for a while.

Which brings me to my last question about hard drives. DR Jim brought up a great point about how the HD sound will be the most noticeable above the even fan sound and could show up on recordings.

A cheap friend of mine does professional voice over work (books on tape) with a LOUD computer. He works at night and puts the computer in the closet. The cords run under the door, and he covers the closet door with a quilt. He can usually record for a couple of hours before the closet air gets too hot. He watches the heat of the PC with Speedfan.

SSD (90~128GB) frequently used programs: Win 7, DAW (Reaper, Reason), Small sample libraries, Photoshop
HDD (1.5 TB) occasionally used: Pictures and Music (200GB), OFFICE 2010, media programs (iTunes, Picasa), Games, CAD (Solidworks)

I don't know how much space your Soildworks install will take, but the default install is 5GB. A almost-full install of Office 2007 is just 3GB. Some sources are saying that Office 2010 is smaller, due to it pulling data from the web as needed (so install is often under 1GB). Perhaps these two apps should be moved onto the SSD.

See below on SSD size...

I know that a 5400RPM drive would be best for the HDD noise, but would it have a significant negative impact on pulled data into SSD loaded programs? (E.g. photos into Photoshop).

The 5400 RPM drives are noticeably slower then 7200 RPM drives. I would never use a 7200 RPM drive, due to noise. I have given away all my 7200 RPM drives -- as the performance is not worth the noise and heat.

Also, would a 7200RPM drive be silent when I am only using the SSD(recording) or will vibration still be an issue?

You should make a "Windows Power Plan" for recording that spins the 7200RPM down after a short period (say 2 min). You could also limit CPU speed in that power profile, but I doubt that you will need to limit CPU speed to reduce HSF noise.

I had considered SSD an expensive luxury, but now I am trying to see how I can fit one in.

I think that you should not "fit one in", as that will lead to getting a small SSD. I have had a 64GB SSD and it was a huge PITA, I had to move data off it every few days. The 128GB drive was better, but would still fill up regularly.

I would suggest a 256 GB (or larger) drive. I would not want to use a smaller drive then 160 GB, no matter how tight your budget. If you can't "fit" $350-$550 in your budget, then I would start with the 5400 RPM drive.

NOTE: If the spinning drive does not come online fast enough, programs will re-default to your "C:" drive and you will fill a small SSD before you notice the change.

NOTE: If your SSD is close to full, your write amplification will increase and the drive will slow down and wear itself out quickly.

[cmh]

@cmh, I like the Asus fan control, two PCI-e, and overclocking stability, but the main reason I like the z68 is that it has been well tested in DAW applications. The board is very low noise and can be dialed down to very low DPC latency. Since there are not a lot of info on other boards, I am leaning to what is working for others.

Makes sense, no worries. I mentioned it because I just spent the last week spec'ing a quiet i5-2500K system after a six-year break since my last build, and had been assuming I'd use the Asus, but then read some reviews on the Intel and couldn't figure out why I needed to spend more money.

[evoeater]

Thank you everyone for your help. I was able to get some extra money together and decided to use it on an SSD and associated drive. I looked around at the file sizes of my current programs and I think I could use a 60GB, but decided on the 128gb based of Dr. Jim's recommendation of size quickly increasing. Since I will not be adding a lot of programs onto this drive, I feel comfortable with 128 GB. I chose the M4 that Abula pointed out, as I think it is a good bang for buck. Also, I changed my case to the P183....long story, but I think it will fit my needs better.

That leaves me around $100 for a storage drive. I have been reading as much as I can on the topic, but would like you all to double check my logic.

1. Since I will be actively using the files on the storage drive, "Green" drives seem to not recommended from Lightroom/photoshop. Pulling music up for iTunes is not an issue, but it looks like photo manipulation.

2. I could place the pictures on the SSD, modify them, and then place them back on a green drive, but I guess the silence isn't worth the hassle to me.

3. Per Dr. Jim recommendation, i can turn off the HDD when recording, in order to be a quiet as possible.

4. I have no preference for HDD brand. My WD and Seagate 250GB drives are still running strong after SEVEN years, so I am not used to drive failures.

5. I think it will be the loudest part of my system, but I am ok with that, so I think that sound quality is will be more important to me then actual volume. I am considering the WD Blue 1tb, turning on AAM, and soft mounting it in the bottom.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I haves looked into laptop drives as well, but the energy saving head parking feature turned me away from them. On further consideration, I think I only need 500-750 gb on the 7200rpm drive and could get a 1.5tb "green" for storage of old projects once I fill it up.


I am wondering if there is anything I am missing, and if you have a better "mid speed" hdd recomendation. Also if there is something I should do about the 4K sectors of the drive?(other then running WD align before partions?)

Thanks again for all of your help! Once I get the storage drive figured out, I can pull the trigger to build this weekend!

[ces]

That leaves me around $100 for a storage drive.

I use a 1t Black WD drive. The first partition is 100gb and the second 900gb. I have all my frequently used data files in the first partition, which is inherently faster than the second partition. It is pretty fast.

The SSD is best for loading software. Traditional disk just don't handle that well as it often requires lots of small reads all over the place.

Most data reads involve single contiguous files. Traditional hard drives are pretty good at this. The 1t Black WD drive is fast to begin with. The first partition is in effect a short stroked 100gb drive.

It works good for me.

[evoeater]

Hi Ces,

That is good to know about the partioning. I will have to research that, as it seems like the first 50-100 would be a great photoshop scrach disk, vs the constant writing on the SSD.

From what I read the Caviar Black just seems too loud. I am basing this on the most recent SPCR hard drive list.http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1181-page6.html.

The WD blue and the Hitatchi look like the quietest 7200rpm drives, as I am looking at a compromise between noise and performance. I think it will be easier to hide the blue's tones vs the Hitatchi's "scratchy" characteristic. Also, it looks like Hitatchi might get purchased, so warranty could be an issue.

The Spinpoint F3 is sometimes recommended, as it is in the range of the WD black with no SPCR reviews and a history of "whining" during idle. I don't feel like taking a chance on it.

[Dr. Jim Pomatter]

Since I will not be adding a lot of programs onto this drive, I feel comfortable with 128 GB. I chose the M4 that Abula pointed out, as I think it is a good bang for buck. Also, I changed my case to the P183....long story, but I think it will fit my needs better.

I'm glad that you decided on the 128GB drive. It just feels like a waste to buy a 30-64GB drive and wear it out with write amplification and pain yourself with the management of data.

While I have never had a SSD go bad on me, I would still recommend you back the drive up on a regular basis. I use Clonezilla with an external USB drive. You will want to have a backup solution, or be ready to cry after you lose everything.

That leaves me around $100 for a storage drive. I have been reading as much as I can on the topic, but would like you all to double check my logic.

1. Since I will be actively using the files on the storage drive, "Green" drives seem to not recommended from Lightroom/photoshop. Pulling music up for iTunes is not an issue, but it looks like photo manipulation.

$100 is plenty of money for a spinning disk. Most 2TB "Green" disks are under $100 these days.

I believe that a high-density "Green" drive may give you better performance then a lower-density "Blue" drive. I don't have time to find a perfect comparison, but look at Western Digital Caviar Green 3TB vs Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB.

The 4 mb random speed is about 10% faster on the higher-density Green drive. The 4k random speed is about 10% slower. Power usage on the green drive is about 1/2, but that difference is only 5 watts.

2. I could place the pictures on the SSD, modify them, and then place them back on a green drive, but I guess the silence isn't worth the hassle to me.

Data management is a pain. You don't want to have to move files around, as that is just two more steps to get each job done. I expect that your spinning drive will be plenty fast for photo work, as it will not have to for fill all the random requests that are being serviced by the SSD.

Most of the requests to the spinning disk will be large. I expect that the 4mb random results will be the most useful in showing how the drives will perform for you.

3. Per Dr. Jim recommendation, i can turn off the HDD when recording, in order to be a quiet as possible.

As I said above, I would create a "Recording" power profile. In this profile I would turn off drives after 2 min. In that profile, I would also turn down the processor to something like 60%, but only if the CPU fan is running too fast and making noise in your recordings.

4. I have no preference for HDD brand. My WD and Seagate 250GB drives are still running strong after SEVEN years, so I am not used to drive failures.

I like Western Digital and Samsung. I got two drives from Seagate that had bad firmware. Seagate drives also sounds louder to my ears.

If you are lucky, and you don't move your computer, some drives will last a long time. Don't push your luck, backup your computer.

5. I think it will be the loudest part of my system, but I am ok with that, so I think that sound quality is will be more important to me then actual volume. I am considering the WD Blue 1tb, turning on AAM, and soft mounting it in the bottom.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I haves looked into laptop drives as well, but the energy saving head parking feature turned me away from them. On further consideration, I think I only need 500-750 gb on the 7200rpm drive and could get a 1.5tb "green" for storage of old projects once I fill it up.

I am wondering if there is anything I am missing, and if you have a better "mid speed" hdd recomendation. Also if there is something I should do about the 4K sectors of the drive?(other then running WD align before partions?)

Thanks again for all of your help! Once I get the storage drive figured out, I can pull the trigger to build this weekend!

Laptop drives are slow and they can still be loud. I don't get why people buy them around here. One of the benefits of a desktop is a full-sized hard drive.

I would get a Eco 2TB Samsung F4. I just think it is the best choice for sound and compatibility. It is faster then the WD Black for sequential 4mb read/write. It is just a bit slower then the WD Green for 4k read/write. It goes on sale for $75 with free S/H from newegg every month or two, the normal price of $80 is not too high.

Always look for quantitative data to make your decisions on. I don't have any more time for this today, but I bet you can find a review of the 1tb blue that you are considering.

[evoeater]

Most of the requests to the spinning disk will be large. I expect that the 4mb random results will be the most useful in showing how the drives will perform for you.

Wow, this really opened up my eyes. I have been reading these tests, but was thinking "Large" files as Gb's and "Small" in Mb. 4MB is around the size of a raw image or even a small recorded project(and sound files). The advantages of a faster drive only help on those smaller files. I read up on this drive a lot, and agree that it would fit my needs well (just need to update the firmware on it)

While I have never had a SSD go bad on me, I would still recommend you back the drive up on a regular basis. I use Clonezilla with an external USB drive. You will want to have a backup solution, or be ready to cry after you lose everything.

Would it be possible to use Clonezilla to place the image on the Samsung? That way I have it backed up. I have an external (and dual drives) where are my media is backed up. I will probably just get another F4EG and put it in an enclosure once I surpass my current 500GB external.

I found this great article on setting up an SSD for optimal performance, but would like any recommended articles on hdd set up if you have them. Looks like the new advanced formatting is covered by Windows 7 for install and storage drives, but I am still researching how to best utilize partitioning for my give programs.

Right now I am thinking this breakdown will give more than enough room for growth. Am I overdoing the partitions?

130GB for SSD clone
400GB for Music and movies
100GB for Photoshop scratch disk
200GB for Solidworks/CAD
400GB for Recording projects
and the leftover ~500gb for photos and lightroom catalog

Thanks again for your help. I think I have finally decided.....

FINAL parts list
P183 v3 - Just need to cover the top fan port somehow.
CP-850 - (For those wondering: Yes, the fan never turns off, but it will pull enough air to cool the hard drives VERY quietly)
True 120 or Megahelems
3x SY1225SL12LM-P (PWM fan for CPU/Exhaust/mid mounted intake)
2xSilicon Fan mounts
Akasa PWM Splitter for the intake and exhaust
Crucial M4 128GB
P8Z68-V (using onboard video)
i7-2600K
Corsair M3 8GB ram
AND FINALLY
Samsung F4EG 2tb.

[Abula]

Just a warning, not to be alarmed, but a friend has a Asus P8P67-M Pro, and says that for the case fans plugs, he can only lower it till 40%, so assuming the Slipstreams are 1300rpm 100%, 40% would be around 500rpm, this is not the same mobo, but might be similar to yours, at that speeds should be very quiet, but so you know that you probably wont be able to lower it more than 40%.

[Dr. Jim Pomatter]

I read up on this drive a lot, and agree that it would fit my needs well (just need to update the firmware on it)

I would not want to risk updating the firmware on a hard drive unless the manufacture said that I should. Most non-motherboard parts do not have any way to recover for a incorrect or incomplete firmware flash. This means that you could turn your parts into not-working junk when you attempt to flash the firmware.

I would weigh the risks against the benefits.

Would it be possible to use Clonezilla to place the image on the Samsung? That way I have it backed up. I have an external (and dual drives) where are my media is backed up. I will probably just get another F4EG and put it in an enclosure once I surpass my current 500GB external.

That should work. You should be able to back up the SSD to the spinning disk. You can then back up the in-computer spinning disk to an external disk connected over USB. Always keep your first backup of the computer, as it will be the "cleanest" state.

Right now I am thinking this breakdown will give more than enough room for growth. Am I overdoing the partitions?

130GB for SSD clone
400GB for Music and movies
100GB for Photoshop scratch disk
200GB for Solidworks/CAD
400GB for Recording projects
and the leftover ~500gb for photos and lightroom catalog

Most Microsoft Windows users do not partition their drives into small parts. They usually make a single partition that every program shares. This is the most flexible way to use the space.

Does Photoshop or Solidworks benefit from having a swap partition? (I know that they would benefit from a separate physical disk, but a separate partition on the same disk is not going to help peek performance. AFAIR)

I would leave the disk as one NTFS partition. Microsoft and Linux read NTFS, it is also possible to buy NTFS plugins for Mac users. NTFS is currently the most compatible file system.

I found this great article on setting up an SSD for optimal performance, but would like any recommended articles on hdd set up if you have them. Looks like the new advanced formatting is covered by Windows 7 for install and storage drives, but I am still researching how to best utilize partitioning for my give programs.

I would not do most of that. You must be sure that defragmentation is off. You should also turn off indexing on the SSD. If you don't want to use the hibernation feature, then you would benefit from removing the hibernation file so you can use the GB for other files.

FINAL parts list
P183 v3 - Just need to cover the top fan port somehow.

If the hole is for a 120 mm fan, you can use a 120mm Fan Mount Cover (Black). Puget Systems also makes 140 mm and 200 mm fan mount covers. I wish that Puget would include a pre-cut piece of self-adhesive dampening foam.

Note: The Puget Systems Parts Store often has parts in stock that are sold out, or not sold elsewhere. They have had top-selling SSDs and top-selling CPUs while the main web stores were sold out for weeks.

CP-850 - (For those wondering: Yes, the fan never turns off, but it will pull enough air to cool the hard drives VERY quietly)

The CP-850 is $115! You are really sparing no expense in getting the best computer. It will be impressive.

It costs nothing to try integrated graphics for a few months. No new video card chips are going to hit the market in the near future. I worry that the integrated graphics will disappoint you, but the solution to that disappointment is a discrete video card.

[evoeater]

With a $25 rebate, the CP-850 is down to $90, and I think it is worth that. Also, Newegg is really close to me so I can will call rather than ship, which saves some time.

Edit: Had a different Mobo idea, but it does not have video out

[CA_Steve]

100GB for a Photoshop scratch disk seems an order of magnitude or higher than you need. Do you really have projects that large? As an alternative to using the SSD for a scratch disk, just allocate your unused RAM for it within Photoshop. Here's where you get the benefit of having 8GB or more RAM for this app.

[CA_Steve]

FYI, Newegg has the Crucial M4 128GB on sale for $215 via newsletter code.

[evoeater]

FYI, Newegg has the Crucial M4 128GB on sale for $215 via newsletter code.

THANKS! I just ordered today and you saved me $15 bucks! When I get all the parts, I will be sure to post up my build and let you know how it goes.

[evoeater]

Just wanted to give you all an update.

Got the computer set up with the SSD and I am AMAZED by the speed. I honestly didn't know an SSD would be this fast. I feel like my mouse is slowing me down With the stock fans, it is much quieter then my previous system, but I have high hopes for the PWM slipstreams that will be here this weekend. Now, I just need to patch out the to fan hole in the case. I saw the Puget blank, but it is like $16 bucks with shipping. I am going to try to cut some sheet metal and might use a cheap fan mount as a gasket.

Going to set up and format the F4EG right now. Will post some pics up once I get the new fans set up.

[Abula]

Got the computer set up with the SSD and I am AMAZED by the speed. I honestly didn't know an SSD would be this fast. I feel like my mouse is slowing me down With the stock fans, it is much quieter then my previous system, but I have high hopes for the PWM slipstreams that will be here this weekend. Now, I just need to patch out the to fan hole in the case. I saw the Puget blank, but it is like $16 bucks with shipping. I am going to try to cut some sheet metal and might use a cheap fan mount as a gasket.

For me it was very dramatic difference, specially since the first ssd i had was placed on a laptop that was using a 5400rpm drive, it made my laptop a pleasure to work with, no longer i miss my desktop that much (still some), but to from that day i will never build a pc, for my personal use, without an ssd.

Pls be sure to post how it goes with the slipstreams pwm, and how the bios worked for lowering them.