Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

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ziphnor
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by ziphnor » Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:31 am

Mrc112 wrote:1. for the youtube clip (currently at work, without sound, so don't shoot me if I'm mistaken, I'll doublecheck this evening at home & update my post if I was mistaken)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzKOZR9ED1E
Thanks.
Either way: both cards seem to be quiet out of the box, especially considering these are high-end gaming cards.
Good to know, ill probably just grab whichever one is cheapest when i order then.
4. Regarding the FT02:
Just checked the price on this, it is *very* expensive. The cheapest i see is 200€ compared to 85€ for the Fractal Define R4. I dont think i want to pay that much for a case (especially when i prefer the Fractal R4/R2 design). The FT05 might be a different story, but its not available in EU yet it seems.
Ow yeah: I forgot: C'mon Mike, review that Cryorig !!! :lol:
+1 :)

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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by MikeC » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:50 am

Mrc112 wrote:Ow yeah: I forgot: C'mon Mike, review that Cryorig !!! :lol:
They just contacted me w/ an apology that the samples won't be shipped till next month due to production being unable to keep up with high demand. So I would estimate close to Nov's end before we can get reviews posted.

lodestar
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by lodestar » Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:48 am

ziphnor wrote:...The FT05 might be a different story, but its not available in EU yet it seems.
The Fortress FT05 is in stock at Scan in the UK. Prices in GBP are 138 for the SST-FT05B Black and 140 for the SST-FT05S Silver. Silverstone FT02 prices as a comparison are 168 for the black version and 170 for the silver.

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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by sjoukew » Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:05 pm

ziphnor wrote:
sjoukew wrote:I would stay away from the Samsung 840 EVO. It has a serious read-spead bug on older data, see anandtech.
There is an fix out which works for Windows systems, but I am wondering if it is just a firmware glitch or that they are hiding something more. There are several competitors out there which more or less similar price/performance figures.
I have an 840 EVO at work, and i just applied that fix a few days ago. It is certainly something of a strange problem, but i dont have any reason not to trust that it is fixed now. Any particular alternatives you had in mind?
Samsung 840 pro which has proven itself or the new 850 series. The crucial's seems to be strong in price/performance also.

Off topic: I have an 840 evo as Linux boot drive, still waiting for a fix for that. The windows fix-tool from Samsung seems to be able to fix the problem, I hope the Linux version will be as good. I Still have faith.

Mrc112
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by Mrc112 » Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:53 pm

MikeC wrote:
Mrc112 wrote:Ow yeah: I forgot: C'mon Mike, review that Cryorig !!! :lol:
They just contacted me w/ an apology that the samples won't be shipped till next month due to production being unable to keep up with high demand. So I would estimate close to Nov's end before we can get reviews posted.
Too bad :(
In the meantime, I ordered one (for the TS: I found mine at alternate belgium. Caseking.de doesn't seem to have Cryorig products).
It was in stock, so I should have it this week. Will try to connect it to either my motherboard or to my scythe kaze server fan controller to see how low in RPM they will go and how they sound.

Of course, I don't have any equipment to measure the sound levels, but I can compare them to a few other good silent fans (have the prolimatech Genesis in my case), so at least it will give you an impression. I'll leave the professional testing to Mike :wink:

I won't be able to test it performance-wise though. I'm not going to de- & reinstall the genesis. But general consensus is that it is a very good performer so I'm not expecting any problems there :)

quest_for_silence
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by quest_for_silence » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:27 am

lodestar wrote:The issue here is the behaviour of the factory overclocked GTX 980s under maximum stress
Just FYI: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS ... OC/23.html - 172W under gaming, 199W under Furmark.

ziphnor
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by ziphnor » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:44 am

Checked with Cryorig support today regarding blocking the first PCI-E slot:
cryorig wrote: Sorry to tell you this but the R1 Ultimate will block the first PCI-E slot on the Asus X99-A.
That probably means that i wont be going with the Cryorig, but the Noctua instead (which we have screenshots on the X99 Deluxe board), or perhaps the Thermalright if i can get similar confirmation.

ziphnor
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by ziphnor » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:43 am

quest_for_silence wrote:
lodestar wrote:The issue here is the behaviour of the factory overclocked GTX 980s under maximum stress
Just FYI: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS ... OC/23.html - 172W under gaming, 199W under Furmark.
Thanks for that link. so calculating for ~200W for each GTX 980 seems quite reasonable actually (as far as i can tell those numbers are for the card only)?

Looking at http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2014/0 ... 0k-revie/8 they report (measured at the wall socket) load for an OC'ed (4.3Ghz) 5820k as 339W.

So it does seem unreasonable that 2x980 + 5820k all OC'ed could exceed 700W? I realize that its hard to max both GPU and CPU at the same time, but with some of the stuff i am planning on with OpenCL i might do just that :) In that light i dont think 860W seems that excessive, if it has to be able to deliver 700+ W at very stable voltages. I guess i could use a ~750W PSU instead, but i doubt there is a huge difference there in fan profiles? stepping up to ~850W?

ziphnor
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by ziphnor » Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:05 pm

Abula wrote:you can see my build on my signtature where i use R4 + SS860XP2, you can check the NF-A14 PWM on the bottom, you can judge if you think a 180mm PSU like the HX850i will fit, my guess is no
I checked Fractals homepage, they list a max size of 170mm if the bottom fan is to be used.

What about the Corsair AX860i btw? Its more expensive than the HX, but as far as i could tell from googling, its 160mm, and its still slightly cheaper than the Seasonic 860W. As far as i can tell it has really good reviews.

ziphnor
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by ziphnor » Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:10 pm

Regarding the FT05 case discussed earlier, it seems that neither the IB-E or the Noctua would fit, as it has a height CPU limit of 162mm?

quest_for_silence
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by quest_for_silence » Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:33 pm

ziphnor wrote:(as far as i can tell those numbers are for the card only)?

Yes, those figures are for cards only.

ziphnor wrote:Looking at http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2014/0 ... 0k-revie/8 they report (measured at the wall socket) load for an OC'ed (4.3Ghz) 5820k as 339W.

They didn't stated the voltages (or I didn't find them), and with Haswell-E it's about all a matter of vcore/vring: at about 1.25 to past, the power consumption may skyrocket, depending of the specific chip. Not to mention they used Prime95 smallFFT, which loads the CPU to levels that real programs are unable to do.

ziphnor wrote:So it does seem unreasonable that 2x980 + 5820k all OC'ed could exceed 700W? I realize that its hard to max both GPU and CPU at the same time, but with some of the stuff i am planning on with OpenCL i might do just that :)

Well, no: as real CPU loads are less power hungry than Prime/Linkpack, so OpenCL applications are less demanding than FurMark, but it mostly depends of your goal in overclocking, and how good your chip will be.

If we take a look at the 5930K, a TechPowerUp! review shows a mere 166W for the CPU/motherboard combo, overclocked at 4.5GHz with 1.264V vcore and loaded with Prime.

Up to a 4GHz OC-level for CPU, my guess is that you won't pass 500-550W DC with a SLI pair, even with that successful OpenCL stuff you're thinking at, and with a good chip as the one used in the TechPowerUp! review, probably you will be able to crank-up the CPU clock up to 4.3/4.5GHz whithin the same power envelope.

ziphnor wrote:What about the Corsair AX860i btw? Its more expensive than the HX, but as far as i could tell from googling, its 160mm, and its still slightly cheaper than the Seasonic 860W. As far as i can tell it has really good reviews.

It's a very well unit built by Flextronics, which is expectedly less quiet than the newer HXi.
Probably it doesn't worth the price difference over that HXi, but it's a very good PSU among its high-end siblings: this is my opinion.

Mrc112
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by Mrc112 » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:22 pm

ziphnor wrote:Checked with Cryorig support today regarding blocking the first PCI-E slot:
cryorig wrote: Sorry to tell you this but the R1 Ultimate will block the first PCI-E slot on the Asus X99-A.
That probably means that i wont be going with the Cryorig, but the Noctua instead (which we have screenshots on the X99 Deluxe board), or perhaps the Thermalright if i can get similar confirmation.
Why not use the 2nd slot on the mobo ? It will also be 16x, so the performance would be the same as in the 1st slot
Are you planning on going SLI with the gtx980 ? If so, which resolution will you be gaming on ?

ziphnor
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by ziphnor » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:24 pm

quest_for_silence wrote:[
They didn't stated the voltages (or I didn't find them), and with Haswell-E it's about all a matter of vcore/vring: at about 1.25 to past, the power consumption may skyrocket, depending of the specific chip. Not to mention they used Prime95 smallFFT, which loads the CPU to levels that real programs are unable to do.
Even at stock, they are reporting 216W though?
ziphnor wrote: Well, no: as real CPU loads are less power hungry than Prime/Linkpack, so OpenCL applications are less demanding than FurMark, but it mostly depends of your goal in overclocking, and how good your chip will be.
I think you will find that this depends on what the OpenCL application is doing, if i re-implement the same computation that FurMark is doing in OpenCL, i would expect the same GPU load :) The algorithms i usually work with, while not as aggressive as Prime95 or similar, do put quite a heavy load on the CPU.

In general i dont want to have any set of applications that i can run that could theoretically overload the PSU. It has to be able to cope with the maximum stress possible, even though its unlikely to occur.
It's a very well unit built by Flextronics, which is expectedly less quiet than the newer HXi.
Probably it doesn't worth the price difference over that HXi, but it's a very good PSU among its high-end siblings: this is my opinion.
Didn´t realize that it was older, but it appears you are correct regarding noise compared to the HXi. The HXi models shown as topping at 20db, while the AX models is shown as going to ~25db (and only being passive up to 20% load). However i noticed something else that is interesting. When comparing the HXi 750 vs 850 Corsair indicate that the first one is passive up to 300W while the latter is passive up to 350W, additionally the 850 doesnt ramp up the fan again until 550W, while the 750 does so at ~450W. So for this particular PSU, the bigger models really are more silent (assuming their specs are reliable).

Perhaps i should just give up on the R4 and get the R2 XL+Corsair HX850i and let the money saved from skipping the Seasonic pay for the larger case.

ziphnor
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by ziphnor » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:30 pm

Mrc112 wrote: Why not use the 2nd slot on the mobo ? It will also be 16x, so the performance would be the same as in the 1st slot
Are you planning on going SLI with the gtx980 ? If so, which resolution will you be gaming on ?
If you check my posts above you will see that there are various limitations on the the other PCIx slots (shared bandwith etc). For the Asus X99-A the recommended setup for SLI is first and third slot.

My interest is VR gaming with the Oculus Rift DK2 (and CV1 later) as well as playing with parallel algorithm/CUDA/OpenCL etc. I am not planning SLI initially, but when the gtx 980 prices drop and if VR SLI has been shown to work, i might get another one. The CV1 is likely to run at 2560x1600, needing dual viewport rendering and stable 90fps (the dk2 needs 75fps).

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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by Mrc112 » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:23 am

In that case (if you're hoping/aiming for 16x/16X) I'm afraid I might have some bad news for you.
According to anandtech, the i5820k does not support 40 lanes, only 28 lanes, meaning that in SLI, you will always go 16X/8X, no matter which slots you use. That means that gamins-wise, your gain will be rather minimal. I don't know the impact on Cuda and the likes.
However: better to know now than to find it out in X months... Might be a better option to sell the gtx980 (once it becomes too weak for your needs) and buy a new high-end card rather than going SLI ?

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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:30 am

ziphnor wrote:Even at stock, they are reporting 216W though?

I can't really help: set aside it's the entire system power draw at the wall (so the actual DC draw is a bit lower), the power measurements depends of the specific setup. Just for example, Guru3D reported 185W at the wall, loading with Prime95 their test system with a 5820K at stock.

ziphnor wrote:I think you will find that this depends on what the OpenCL application is doing, if i re-implement the same computation that FurMark is doing in OpenCL, i would expect the same GPU load :)

Indeed: but GPU loads isn't the issue here. As said in my previous post, it mainly depends of the overclocking and voltage figures, synthetic benchmarks like Prime or FurMark may worsen the things, but nonetheless it's almost all a matter of voltages.

ziphnor wrote:In general i dont want to have any set of applications that i can run that could theoretically overload the PSU. It has to be able to cope with the maximum stress possible, even though its unlikely to occur.

Whether you want to stick with original proposition of "not excessive voltage", there are virtually no chance you can reach the 700W DC mark, and IMO not even the 600W one: but whether you will put (to say) 1.4V on the CPU, the actual power draw will likely double, so YMMV.

ziphnor wrote:When comparing the HXi 750 vs 850 Corsair indicate that the first one is passive up to 300W while the latter is passive up to 350W, additionally the 850 doesnt ramp up the fan again until 550W, while the 750 does so at ~450W. So for this particular PSU, the bigger models really are more silent (assuming their specs are reliable).

As said to lodestar, there are general rules and there are exceptions, and both have to be taken with a grain of salt.
In particular, when you're dealing with a single card setup with an expected power draw nearby 300W, talking about an 850W unit instead of a 400-500W one is very often more counterproductive (money, noise, and efficiency wise), than when comparing a 850W and a 750W units for an around 500-550W expected power consumption.

Back to your thought, I haven't seen any serious comparison of both the HX750i and HX850i, so I can't do any educated guess: at first glance I think it's not unreasonable to trust what Corsair stated.
I can only say what I already said some days ago: that at 750W/850W those HXi have a sound pressure level advantage over the Seasonic Platinum, due to the more conservative Seasonic approach, cooling wise.

Even better, given the high idle power draw of an oc'ed X99/SLI setup, you can even go further, and look to the HX1000i, as it stays fanless at least up to 400W, and fan ramps up over 700W DC, or look to the AX1500i, which can stays fanless at least up to 600W DC and fan ramps up over 1200W DC.

It all depends of your goals (as well as in overclocking): in a not-rotated SLI setup at least one card will be noticeably heated, and anyway 350W of graphics cannot run under load at a relatively quiet level, so why bother of 50W, 100W or 300W more of fanless range for just the PSU, particularly when you will have to shell out money for their silence? It's up to your call. With reference to money, maybe a worthwhile alternative might be the already quoted eVGA SuperNOVA G2 750W: although the fan kicks in at an higher speed than the Corsair HXi, it has a comfortable fanless range, performance are top notch, build quality is as high as the Seasonic Platinum and the relevant price is substantially lower (not to mention it sports a 10-years warranty).

ziphnor wrote:Perhaps i should just give up on the R4 and get the R2 XL+Corsair HX850i and let the money saved from skipping the Seasonic pay for the larger case.
I'm not a fan of insulated enclosures for multi-GPU setups, but surely the Define XL might be a better option than the Define R4 (as well as the Fractal Design Arc XL).

ziphnor wrote:I am not planning SLI initially, but when the gtx 980 prices drop and if VR SLI has been shown to work, i might get another one.

IMVHO there are too much "if", and too much "conditional tense": I already gave you this advice, but as "repetita iuvant", I will repeat once more.
Whether I were you, I wouldn't bother about SLI, powerful PSUs and big enclosures, and I will shave off some substantial money (maybe for any future rebuild, or any more amusing task).

ziphnor
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by ziphnor » Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:31 am

Mrc112 wrote:In that case (if you're hoping/aiming for 16x/16X) I'm afraid I might have some bad news for you.
According to anandtech, the i5820k does not support 40 lanes, only 28 lanes, meaning that in SLI, you will always go 16X/8X, no matter which slots you use. That means that gamins-wise, your gain will be rather minimal. I don't know the impact on Cuda and the likes.
However: better to know now than to find it out in X months... Might be a better option to sell the gtx980 (once it becomes too weak for your needs) and buy a new high-end card rather than going SLI ?
Thanks, but i am aware that it only supports 28 lanes, however, all benchmarks i have seen has described the performance difference from 16x/8x to 16x/16x as pretty minimal (1fps perhaps). If they manage to get VR SLI working (rendering one eye on each GPU), then the speed-up will still be significant. Whether i get another gtx 980 or a newer card will depend on the success of VR SLI and the time the Oculus Rift CV1 is released.

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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by Abula » Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:46 am

ziphnor wrote:Regarding the FT05 case discussed earlier, it seems that neither the IB-E or the Noctua would fit, as it has a height CPU limit of 162mm?
I have my doubts and it might not fit, but there is a post on OCN where naesmac fits a DarkPro (he says its 163mm) and another from Ziltoid , from thermalright specs the IBE is 163mm, so it should fit, depending if all manufacturers measure the same way... but my guess is it does fit.

ziphnor
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by ziphnor » Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:48 am

quest_for_silence wrote:
ziphnor wrote:Even at stock, they are reporting 216W though?

I can't really help: set aside it's the entire system power draw at the wall (so the actual DC draw is a bit lower), the power measurements depends of the specific setup. Just for example, Guru3D reported 185W at the wall, loading with Prime95 their test system with a 5820K at stock.
Hmm, weird. I looked at the bittech article in a bit more detail and they provide the following info:"

"The Core i7-5820K, though, would only go as far as 4.3GHz, where we only needed a vcore of 1.25V using a bus speed of 123MHz and multiplier of x35. 4.4GHz just wasn't an option, with the CPU voltage and thermals being the limiting factors."

So the 339W at wall they are reporting is with only 1.25V. Looking at the test system, they are using a Corsair AX860i PSU so they shouldnt be wasting power on a bad PSU.

It pretty weird that they can get so different numbers, if you compare the idle to load delta, for bittech reports ~100W while Guru3d reports ~120W.
quest_for_silence wrote:
ziphnor wrote:In general i dont want to have any set of applications that i can run that could theoretically overload the PSU. It has to be able to cope with the maximum stress possible, even though its unlikely to occur.

Whether you want to stick with original proposition of "not excessive voltage", there are virtually no chance you can reach the 700W DC mark, and IMO not even the 600W one: but whether you will put (to say) 1.4V on the CPU, the actual power draw will likely double, so YMMV.
Now i am getting a little bit confused, the 200W per GPU we discussed was based on the Strix at stock OC, right? So for Strix 980 SLI we should set aside ~400W even before we increase the voltage or frequencies further. For the rest of the system it shouldnt be too hard to push above +200W, should it? Assuming the bittech numbers are too high, if stock can give 185W at the wall, then upping the voltage to 1.25 and increasing the clock to say 4.3Ghz, should probably push it above 200W, right? I agree that this probably wont occur in practice, but it would still make me buy a PSU in the 650-750W range.
It all depends of your goals (as well as in overclocking): in a not-rotated SLI setup at least one card will be noticeably heated, and anyway 350W of graphics cannot run under load at a relatively quiet level, so why bother of 50W, 100W or 300W more of fanless range for just the PSU, particularly when you will have to shell out money for their silence? It's up to your call.
If i can get a passive system in idle/low load (browsing, writing code), then that is definitely worth something for me. I guess you are right in that as the system comes under load the CPU and/or GPU fan will of course spin up and easily drown out the PSU fan anyway. On the other hand every little bit helps and the price difference between 750W and 850W is not really that big. But its a good point.
With reference to money, maybe a worthwhile alternative might be the already quoted eVGA SuperNOVA G2 750W: although the fan kicks in at an higher speed than the Corsair HXi, it has a comfortable fanless range, performance are top notch, build quality is as high as the Seasonic Platinum and the relevant price is substantially lower (not to mention it sports a 10-years warranty).
Thanks for the suggestion, i can see that it also has really excellent reviews and is indeed somewhat cheaper, though its also 180mm so would also block the bottom fan of the R4 case:

eVGA SuperNOVA G2 750W 104€
Corsair HX750i 138€
Corsair HX850i 152€
Seasonic 860W Platinum 185€

I do like Platinum however from an environmentally friendly point of view :)
quest_for_silence wrote:
ziphnor wrote:I am not planning SLI initially, but when the gtx 980 prices drop and if VR SLI has been shown to work, i might get another one.


IMVHO there are too much "if", and too much "conditional tense": I already gave you this advice, but as "repetita iuvant", I will repeat once more.
Whether I were you, I wouldn't bother about SLI, powerful PSUs and big enclosures, and I will shave off some substantial money (maybe for any future rebuild, or any more amusing task).
Its very sensible advice that you provide :) My plan is to look at what happens with nVidia's VR SLI technology. If it takes off, then its not unlikely that i will get another gtx 980 to coincide with Oculus Rift CV1 release next year (depending on how much the price drops and how demanding the VR experiences in the CV1 end up being with max detail enabled). I am a bit crazed wrt. VR, you dont want to know how much money i already spent on VR accessories :) Luckily money isn´t a big deal (for this size of budget!). Its not that my budget doesnt stretch to a 5960x CPU for example, its just more than i am willing to pay for a CPU. At the same time computers tend to laster longer and longer before they need upgrading, the days when each new CPU/GPU increased performance with 50-100% are gone, which makes me willing to spend a bit more.

ziphnor
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by ziphnor » Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:51 am

Abula wrote:
ziphnor wrote:Regarding the FT05 case discussed earlier, it seems that neither the IB-E or the Noctua would fit, as it has a height CPU limit of 162mm?
I have my doubts and it might not fit, but there is a post on OCN where naesmac fits a DarkPro (he says its 163mm) and another from Ziltoid , from thermalright specs the IBE is 163mm, so it should fit, depending if all manufacturers measure the same way... but my guess is it does fit.
Thanks for the info, it would be good to know for sure though :) I guess the FT05 has foam padding, so in the worst case i guess a little more height can be achieved by trimming the foam a bit.

Looking at the layout of the FT05, it would also seem that the PSU length is less of a problem here. A 180mm PSU wont fit alongside the hdd tray, but that is removable, and its not like its hard to find a place for a 2.5" SSD (just tape it to something in the case :)

EDIT:
Reading the techspot FT05 review, i can see two things:

1. There is an SSD slot elsewhere, so in that way it would actually be a good fit for my build. As it would fit any PSU with the 3.5" cage removed.
2. They fit an Thermalright SB-E (which is 2mm taller than the IB-E) succesfully:
"Still, it wasn't all bad. I started by squeezing the motherboard in and while I would normally install the memory and CPU heatsink prior to inserting the motherboard, I don't recommend doing this with the FT05. There simply isn't enough room to work with a large air-cooler already installed. With the Thermalright SilverArrow SB-E Extreme in place, we couldn't access the CPU 8-pin power connector from any angle and it even made getting to the 24-pin ATX power connector difficult."

Sounds like a frustrating install though :)

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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:25 pm

ziphnor wrote:So the 339W at wall they are reporting is with only 1.25V. Looking at the test system, they are using a Corsair AX860i PSU so they shouldnt be wasting power on a bad PSU.

It pretty weird that they can get so different numbers, if you compare the idle to load delta, for bittech reports ~100W while Guru3d reports ~120W.

Yes, it's an unfortunate circumstance.

As a comparative, rough estimate, you can consider also the SPCR review of the likely more power hungry Core i7 3960X, while a more recent source for toughts is a recent post on the Corsair blog by Dustin Sklavos (the former Anandtech PSU editor), which sports some useful data on voltage and power consumption while overclocking those Haswell-Es.

ziphnor wrote:Now i am getting a little bit confused, the 200W per GPU we discussed was based on the Strix at stock OC, right?

My basis is still the quote from hardware.info of my very first post in your thread: on real life loads (gaming, in that case) 430W for a SLI of GTX 980 with a 4GHz Core i7 5960X. The ASUS Strix over the reference card shouldn't change that scenario substantially.
I've also seen a comment on jonnyguru.com from a guy with a 5930K and a pair of GTX 580 topping around 560W at the wall (so around 490W DC with his PSU, which started me thinking differently about those things).
Taking those data with the already quoted pinch of salt, so as ballpark figures, you may do any addition you may like on top of them, with specific reference to your developing OpenCL code.

Abula
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by Abula » Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:59 pm

ziphnor wrote:1. There is an SSD slot elsewhere, so in that way it would actually be a good fit for my build. As it would fit any PSU with the 3.5" cage removed.
In theory there are 2x 2.5 mounts on the back of the motherboard, would be ideal for a big ssds like Crucial MX100 512GB SATA 2.5" 7mm (with 9.5mm adapter) Internal Solid State Drive CT512MX100SSD1 + a big 2.5 mechanical like for example Samsung Seagate Momentus SpinPoint ST2000LM003 2TB 2.5" SATA Notebook Hard Drive 9.5MM
ziphnor wrote:2. They fit an Thermalright SB-E (which is 2mm taller than the IB-E) succesfully:
"Still, it wasn't all bad. I started by squeezing the motherboard in and while I would normally install the memory and CPU heatsink prior to inserting the motherboard, I don't recommend doing this with the FT05. There simply isn't enough room to work with a large air-cooler already installed. With the Thermalright SilverArrow SB-E Extreme in place, we couldn't access the CPU 8-pin power connector from any angle and it even made getting to the 24-pin ATX power connector difficult."
Well i have lived with a similar experience on R4, both the HR22 and SA IBE dont allow the installation of anything later on, once its mounted with such big cooler and very little space with the case, you cant install 8pin or even in some headers for the fans get tough.... i even bought a really long screw driver as the top mid screw its almost impossible with a standard screw driver. The 8pin isnt tough, specially with a fully modular PSU, you just install the motherboard 8pin first and place in the back and then mount the motherbaord, then is cake to just route and connect to the PSU.
ziphnor wrote:Sounds like a frustrating install though :)
Nothing that its good its easy in life... personally i like challenges, i like going to the limit into whats possible... but then again this is a hobby for me, so building is what i enjoy the most, using not as much... =)

ziphnor
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by ziphnor » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:30 pm

Abula wrote:In theory there are 2x 2.5 mounts on the back of the motherboard, would be ideal for a big ssds like Crucial MX100 512GB SATA 2.5" 7mm (with 9.5mm adapter) Internal Solid State Drive CT512MX100SSD1 + a big 2.5 mechanical like for example Samsung Seagate Momentus SpinPoint ST2000LM003 2TB 2.5" SATA Notebook Hard Drive 9.5MM
One big SSD is all i need, i am tired of spinning disks, but thanks for pointing out that there are two mounts.
abula wrote:Well i have lived with a similar experience on R4, both the HR22 and SA IBE dont allow the installation of anything later on, once its mounted with such big cooler and very little space with the case, you cant install 8pin or even in some headers for the fans get tough.... i even bought a really long screw driver as the top mid screw its almost impossible with a standard screw driver.
I only quoted their install experience because it indicated that they did manage to fit the cooler. I dont mind that its hard to install, as long as it will fit. They were using the windowed version though, which might give them a few more mm (no foam etc)? I have written an email to Silverstone asking about NH-D15 and IB-E.
abula wrote: Nothing that its good its easy in life... personally i like challenges, i like going to the limit into whats possible... but then again this is a hobby for me, so building is what i enjoy the most, using not as much... =)
I dont mind either. Reading the reviews i find i am getting more and more interested in the FT05. All its "drawbacks" are irrelevant to me (i dont need 3.5" drives, i dont need an optical drive etc) and it appears to provide really good cooling.

I would like to see some screenshots of the top IO cable routing though. The way my computer is setup (below a desk), it might actually be better that way, but there could easily be some problems i havent thought about.

ziphnor
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by ziphnor » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:20 am

Regarding the FT05, just noticed that HardOCP has a review up at

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2014/10/ ... wer_review
HardOCP wrote: As far as air coolers go, we installed some of the tallest coolers we could find in the Fortress without a single issue. Even gigantic coolers like the Thermalright Silver Arrow SB-E and the NZXT Havik 140 fit without a problem.
And this is in the window-less case, so i guess that settles it, the IB-E must be able to fit as well (as its slightly smaller). They also mention fitting the Havik 140 which is listed as 166mm.

Its also a very positive review overall. I think i am pretty much convinced that ill be going for the FT05.


EDIT: I think i am getting much closer to a final build, but there is one last thing if i am going with the FT05: Is the Asus Strix/MSI Gaming cards still preferable to the reference cooler in the vertical position? The reference cooler blows air out the back normally, which follows the natural airflow in the FT05. There is also something about heatpipes being used in a different position that they were designed for?

Abula
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by Abula » Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:02 pm

Remember on FT05, you need to get a good motherboard that allows undervolting on the fans, as their 1300rpm (high) or 900rpm (low) on the switch are still too high for someone looking for a quiet build, you need to undervolt them to 400rpms, where for my liking is good enough, although worth mentioning that for some is not, then you also have the chance of going into AP182 and dropping them as low as 170rpms, if you have the correct motherboard, so consider either MSI or ASUS as good choices for this build, MSI for bios and Asus with FanXpert2.

Mrc112
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by Mrc112 » Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:12 am

just tested the cryorig ultimate R1 real quickly for sound.
Speedwise, I got it down to 30% using a fan controller. Both fans at this speed are inaudible. Had to actually put my head next to it (talking about 1" away) to hearany sound at all. In a case or when 30cm (almost 12") away, you will not hear them.
On 50-60 %, there seems to be a faint ticking in the fans (not disturbing, but audible at close distance, again in a case it will not be heard). Both my fans have it, not sure if it's a general thing.
On 100% speed, the fans are audible, the 2nd fan of course adds extra to the soundlevel. But the sound characteristic is very smooth. The ticking isn't audible anymore, you just hear the moving of air. It is a soft sound that certainly is not disturbing. But you will hear them in a case, even a damped one like the P182 or the FT02

I'm curious to see how MikeC evaluates these fans & this cooler, and of course: I was not able to test performance on lower levels, but if I base myself on the reviews found online, we might have a new champion in high-end cooling.

Special note: the packing, the looks, the extra's,...: everything shows that this is a high-end product, while still maintaining a reasonable price

ziphnor
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by ziphnor » Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:48 am

Mrc112 wrote: I'm curious to see how MikeC evaluates these fans & this cooler, and of course: I was not able to test performance on lower levels, but if I base myself on the reviews found online, we might have a new champion in high-end cooling.
Sounds good, too bad that it will (according to Cryorig) block the first PCI Express slot on the Asus X99-A motherboard.

ziphnor
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by ziphnor » Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:39 am

Just FYI for anyone interested, i updated the first post with an updated build based on these comments.

jonc
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by jonc » Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:17 am

I was interested to know if you've built this rig yet, as I'm looking to build something similar, based on an FT05.

My main concern is around the PSU and how it might fit with regard to the HDD tray. Silverstone say that a 160mm PSU should fit, but there's nothing quite like trying it to test out the theory. Especially as a modular PSU might add a tiny bit extra into the mix.

ziphnor
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Re: Could use a sanity check of my Haswell-E builld

Post by ziphnor » Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:57 am

jonc wrote:I was interested to know if you've built this rig yet, as I'm looking to build something similar, based on an FT05.
I am waiting for parts to come into stock currrently.
My main concern is around the PSU and how it might fit with regard to the HDD tray. Silverstone say that a 160mm PSU should fit, but there's nothing quite like trying it to test out the theory. Especially as a modular PSU might add a tiny bit extra into the mix.
I am almost 100% sure that the Corsair PSU in my build will force me to remove the HDD tray. However, i was going to do that anyway, since i will only be installing SSD's (the FT05 has two slots for SSD's behind the motherboard).

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