Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

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aquelito
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Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by aquelito » Sun Jan 24, 2016 5:18 am

Hi there,

I am thinking of building a new PC around the Streacom FC8 case, and the ASRock AM1H-ITX mono, compatible with the Streacom case.

This PC would be dedicated to AutoCAD, Sketchup, HTPC and light gaming (mainly my 2010 steam catalog) on a 720p video projector.

Here is the components list I was thinking of :

Case : Streacom FC8
150 euros

CPU : AMD 5350. I chose AMD over Intel due to the mobo choice.
50 euros

Mobo : ASRock AM1H-ITX. I chose it as it features a 19V DC-IN entry (no need for an extra Pico-PSU) and full PCI-E port (which is not the case of the Asrock H81).
68 euros

RAM : Crucial CL9 Ballistix Sport VLP DDR3 8 Go PC3-12800 Very Low Profile
50 euros

VGA : Sapphire Radeon R7 250 Low Profile
80 euros

SSD : Sandisk Ultra II 240 Go
65 euros

Power adapter : Asus Power Adapter 180W. No need for a Pico-PSU due to the 19V DC-IN of the motherboard.
80 euros

Total : 693 euros (French prices)

My questions : the 180 W adapter can handle the full system wattage by itself ?

Thanks for your help !

quest_for_silence
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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by quest_for_silence » Sun Jan 24, 2016 5:40 am

aquelito wrote:Case : Streacom FC8

As far as I recall, it's not compatible with AM1.

aquelito wrote:CPU : AMD 5350. I chose AMD over Intel due to the mobo choice.

Set aside case's possible compatiblity issues, that two years old APU is severely underpowered for anything serious: I'd bet on another horse.

aquelito wrote:My questions : the 180 W adapter can handle the full system wattage by itself ?

Yes (actually it's overkill).

Vicotnik
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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by Vicotnik » Sun Jan 24, 2016 5:56 am

aquelito wrote: VGA : Sapphire Radeon R7 250 Low Profile
80 euros
Do you plan to cool that using the Streacom FC8?

aquelito
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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by aquelito » Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:09 am

Thanks for your answers !

The streacom FC8 is actually compatible thanks to the MH1 adapter I forgot to mention :

http://www.streacom.com/support/system-build-guide/

What kind of wattage do you think it would need ?
According to various tests, around 130 W should be enough on load.

The R7 750 has its own rad : http://www.materiel.net/carte-graphique ... oC03zw_wcB
I don't really mind the noise when gaming, it's more when I'm working that I don't want to here anything !


Last question : for the same budget and same case, what configuration would you have chosen ?

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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by Vicotnik » Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:19 am

Do you already own the case?

I would not use a dedicated graphics card in a heatsink case. First option would be a CPU with a decent onboard GPU and check if that would be enough performance. If a dedicated card is needed then go with a normal case (unless you want to roll your own, flexible heatpipes etc might be used to let the case cool the graphics card also).

baii
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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by baii » Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:06 am

For low budget with some grapic power, I will go these 2 route.

1. Skylake i3 or g4500 with its iGPU

2. Haswell celeron/g3258 with a dedicated gpu.

The am1 platform is not worth adding extra component(a gpu) on.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by quest_for_silence » Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:46 pm

aquelito wrote:What kind of wattage do you think it would need ?
According to various tests, around 130 W should be enough on load.
I'd be greatly surprised if the proposed combo drew more than 90w (set aside combined synthetic stress tests).

aquelito wrote:The R7 750 has its own rad : http://www.materiel.net/carte-graphique ... oC03zw_wcB
I don't really mind the noise when gaming, it's more when I'm working that I don't want to here anything !

As already said by other co-forumers, I wouldn't recommend using a 75w GPU inside an hotbox (virtually no vents) and at any rate it would be loud/noticeable even at idle with that tiny fan.

aquelito wrote:Last question : for the same budget and same case, what configuration would you have chosen ?

Maybe either a 65w A10 7800 apu or a 35/65w Skylake with the HD 530 iGPU.

aquelito
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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by aquelito » Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:03 am

Ok, thanks for your advice.

I might be better off with the F7C. After all, I am only interested in the "look" of the case.

My two other criterias were : DC-AC jack adapter on the mobo, possibility to add a discrete GPU.

If I was to choose an Intel CPU, my only mobo choice would be this one :
http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/H81TM-ITX%20R2.0/

This mobo only features a PCIe 2.0 x4 port. Does it allow me to install a R7 250 or 240 VGA card ?

quest_for_silence
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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:55 am

aquelito wrote:My two other criterias were : DC-AC jack adapter on the mobo, possibility to add a discrete GPU.

Thin ITX is not exactly meant for gaming: can't you use a Streacom PSU?

aquelito wrote:This mobo only features a PCIe 2.0 x4 port. Does it allow me to install a R7 250 or 240 VGA card ?

I'm not aware of mini PCI-E cards.

aquelito
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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by aquelito » Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:28 am

Not having to use a pico-psu allows me to save 70 € and avoid the possible compatibility issue with the FC8 CPU pipes !

Why thin itx is not advised for gaming ?
By gaming I mean very light gaming, possibly no gaming at all. I just want the possibility to play older racing games and FPS (2010-12 games).

Regarding the PCIE port, I wanted to know if I can plug a discrete GPU on the PCIE port visible on the right (see pic enclosed).
The R7 240 seems a good compromise if possible.

Image

quest_for_silence
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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:23 am

aquelito wrote:Not having to use a pico-psu allows me to save 70 €
But severely restricts your choices.

aquelito wrote:Why thin itx is not advised for gaming ?
Because generally gaming is a (comparatively) power hungry task (rather the opposite of a Thin ITX design goal).

aquelito wrote:Regarding the PCIE port, I wanted to know if I can plug a discrete GPU on the PCIE port visible on the right (see pic enclosed).
On some boards the PCIe x1/x4 slot uses an open-ended socket to permit inserting longer cards while negotiating the best available electrical connection: check whether that board let you do so. Alternatively you can melt/cut down a closed-ended PCIe x1/x4 slot (though YMMV).

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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by xan_user » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:25 am

I know of no mobo, with onboard dc jack, that can also power a discrete GPU.

baii
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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by baii » Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:41 pm

You can get pcie extension cable to fit the GPU.

Trying to go small and maintain a low budget don't mate well together.

aquelito
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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by aquelito » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:14 am

baii wrote:You can get pcie extension cable to fit the GPU.

Trying to go small and maintain a low budget don't mate well together.
Asrock forum members confirmed a standard GPU would fit without a riser (open ended PCIe port).
However, if I was to add a GPU, it may be good to move the card where it could breathe a little better, let's say in the "empty" space between the mobo and the front face ?

Anyway I am going to listen to your advices and add a nanopsu. HDPLEX makes psu that doesn't plug straight in the mobo, may be better T° and compatibility wise ?

I also think I am going to opt for an A8 7600 (very similar to the more expensive A10 performance-wise).
Would you go for the Streacom F7C or F8C ?

quest_for_silence
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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by quest_for_silence » Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:50 am

aquelito wrote:However, if I was to add a GPU, it may be good to move the card where it could breathe a little better, let's say in the "empty" space between the mobo and the front face ?
The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

aquelito wrote:HDPLEX makes psu that doesn't plug straight in the mobo, may be better T° and compatibility wise ?
No: if you're going to add a dedicated GPU, lean towards 200w-class PSU.

aquelito wrote:Would you go for the Streacom F7C or F8C ?
Streacom F7C alpha.

aquelito
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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by aquelito » Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:43 am

I guess you're right !

Here is my final dilemna :

Config 1 : Streacom F7C / G3258 / R7 250

-Max wattage : 157W
http://outervision.com/b/fF96zl
- Total cost (w/o PSU) : 350 €

Any 200W PSU in mind ?

Config 2 : Streacom F8C / A8 7600

Max wattage : 107 W
http://outervision.com/b/rcBK4z
- Total cost (w/o PSU) : 390 €

I guess that's lots of hassle for this R7 750.

WHat would you choose between both configurations ?

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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by xan_user » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:31 pm

quest_for_silence wrote: No: if you're going to add a dedicated GPU, lean towards 200w-class PSU.
thats what i used to say....

....till I sent back my clicking 500 watt PSU and replaced it with a HDPLEX 250 watt. what a great little PSU! http://www.hd-plex.com/HDPLEX-250W-Hi-F ... Input.html of course it is nearly $150 with a brick, but to me its a small price to pay for silence.

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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by Cistron » Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:08 am

edit: nah, I wrote a load of hogwash.

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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:44 am

aquelito wrote:Here is my final dilemna :

Config 1 : Streacom F7C / G3258 / R7 250

-Max wattage : 157W
http://outervision.com/b/fF96zl

PSU calculators are just random numbers generators, don't ever trust them.

I wouldn't use the g3258, since you won't overclock, rather a g3260/g3460 or a g4400/4500, neither a R7 250, power-wise: a GTX 750TI draw the same but it's much more poweful, gaming-wise.

aquelito wrote:Any 200W PSU in mind ?

HDPLEX is one, mini-box might also have a couple of options (but you'd better to ask them): ideally you should look for a DC-DC PSU rated for >12A max (not "peak" but max, continuous power) for the 12V rail.

aquelito wrote:Config 2 : Streacom F8C / A8 7600

Thinking twice the A8 7600 is maybe too hot for the F8C (80/85w vs 65w), it's probably better going for the F7C.

aquelito wrote:WHat would you choose between both configurations ?
Money wise and quietness-wise the A8 should have an edge (with the F7C), though probably I'd look for a third way, inspired by our co-forumer edh. It's not fanless, it's not as small as the FC8, but it's about what I might buy on Amazon for 618 euros at most:
  • Intel G4400
    MSI B150I GAMING PRO AC
    Crucial CT2K4G4DFS8213 2 x 4 Go
    Scythe Ninja 4
    MSI N750ti-TF2GD5OC
    Crucial BX100 250Go
    Raijintek Metis
    Be quiet Straight Power E10 400W / Silverstone SST-ST30SF
xan_user wrote:
quest_for_silence wrote:No: if you're going to add a dedicated GPU, lean towards 200w-class PSU.
thats what i used to say....

....till I sent back my clicking 500 watt PSU and replaced it with a HDPLEX 250 watt.

I didn't get you, xan.

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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by xan_user » Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:55 am

or, maybe i didnt get you quest. -thought you were telling OP to get a full sized PSU, and that DC-DC like hdplex wouldn't cut it.

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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:42 am

xan_user wrote:thought you were telling OP to get a full sized PSU, and that DC-DC like hdplex wouldn't cut it.

I just pointed out which DC-DC PSU wattage the OP should look at (though it's true that I don't like this kind of PSU).

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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by aquelito » Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:52 am

Upgrading to the G4400 is a good idea.

However I a mgoing to stick to the Streacom case, this is the starting point of the whole build !

Regarding the HDPLEX PSU, it should be able to handle the load of a G4400 + 750 ti.
However, some do not like the idea...
http://www.overclock.net/t/1542018/mini ... u-problems

What do you think of his calculation ?

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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:26 am

aquelito wrote:What do you think of his calculation ?

If you're referring to danielkim624 post, I think his proposed calculaion is just wrong and groundless (the 20A requirement comes out from nowhere, even better, from some badly done user's manual).

If you stick with the F7C Alpha, check twice (maybe directly with Streacom own customer support) if it may host a dual slot GPU (quiet GTX 750ti cards are dual slot ones).

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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by xan_user » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:44 pm

aquelito wrote:Upgrading to the G4400 is a good idea.

However I a mgoing to stick to the Streacom case, this is the starting point of the whole build !

Regarding the HDPLEX PSU, it should be able to handle the load of a G4400 + 750 ti.
However, some do not like the idea...
http://www.overclock.net/t/1542018/mini ... u-problems

What do you think of his calculation ?
G4400 and gtx 750ti should work fine. my haswell i3 and gtx 750(not ti) ran well on it maxing out at just over 140 watts with furmark + prime

I cant quite run a gtx 960, i5-6600 and just one m.2 ssd with that PSU tho. furmark maxes load at 209 watts. starting up prime (100 watts if run alone) trips the dell power brick off.

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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by baii » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:11 pm

Custom pico PSU seem to be popular in china, I read up they had pico PSU "rated 500w", when pair with Dell 240w, they have no problem running a non k i5 and 970.

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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by xan_user » Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:50 pm

baii wrote:Custom pico PSU seem to be popular in china, I read up they had pico PSU "rated 500w", when pair with Dell 240w, they have no problem running a non k i5 and 970.
that is not possible. you can not get more watts from dc/dc PSU than what the brick puts out. (in fact, you will always get less, due to loss.)

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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by baii » Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:58 pm

xan_user wrote:
baii wrote:Custom pico PSU seem to be popular in china, I read up they had pico PSU "rated 500w", when pair with Dell 240w, they have no problem running a non k i5 and 970.
that is not possible. you can not get more watts from dc/dc PSU than what the brick puts out. (in fact, you will always get less, due to loss.)
yes indeed, they are pulling max 240w from the brick ,they just saying it(the pico psu) is rated to handle that if they chain the brick or w.e.

Now I remember, they used the 330w brick for those setup.

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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by Vicotnik » Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:44 am

All the pico does is to convert +12v to the other voltages needed. And since most stuff run on +12v and it's possible to feed stuff +12v directly from the brick, it could be argued that you hardly need a picoPSU at all.. ;)

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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by xan_user » Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:03 am

Vicotnik wrote:All the pico does is to convert +12v to the other voltages needed. And since most stuff run on +12v and it's possible to feed stuff +12v directly from the brick, it could be argued that you hardly need a picoPSU at all.. ;)
just be aware the minibox pico's barrel connector cant handle much more than 200 watts. it gets very hot and seems close to melting the molex.

the hdplex 250w (400w peak) is rated to 16 a and 19 amps max on 12v rail. it doesn't just pass 12v dc like a pico, because the brick voltage it takes is 16V-24V. a minbox pico's 12v rail is horrible at staying stable as it gets pushed, hdplex is not like that. it has a rock-solid 12v rail, better than many ATX PSU's ive seen.
http://www.hd-plex.com/product/250W.DC- ... hspec.html

Code: Select all

Output 	Max DC 	Full Load DC 	
+12V	      19A	     16A

i was tempted to try this 500watt ac/dc converter http://www.amazon.com/HERO-LED-PS-SW24L ... SW24LPS500
but since i already have a spare pico, i will probably just add that pico to the hdplex instead. run the mobo from a pico 120w, and the gpu off the hdplex 250w.

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Re: Low-cost low wattage light gaming passive PC

Post by quest_for_silence » Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:32 am

xan_user wrote:i was tempted to try this 500watt ac/dc converter http://www.amazon.com/HERO-LED-PS-SW24L ... SW24LPS500

At any rate, beware of led power supplies which don't comply to ATX specs.

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