New Gaming/Streaming pc

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yan9
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Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:47 am
Location: UK Norwich

New Gaming/Streaming pc

Post by yan9 » Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:44 pm

Hi I was last on the forum earlier in the year asking for help with cases and a possible gaming build. Unfortunately I had a heavy fall but back in nearly one piece now.
My grandson has decided that he would now like to build the gaming / streaming pc. I will list all the parts he has chosen and ask for help regarding the choices made and the compatibility of components also any other choices that may be better. Thanks for any help provided.

case: lian li o11 dynamic xl (rog certified ) aluminium midi tower - white
link: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/lian-li- ... 7l-ll.html

processor: ryzen 9 5950x
link:https://www.overclockers.co.uk/amd-ryze ... c9-am.html

motherboard: dark hero
link: https://rog.asus.com/Motherboards/ROG-C ... ero-Model/

ram: vengeance rgb pro black 32gb
link: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/corsair- ... ck-cs.html

ssd's : 980 pro samsung 1tb for games and a 250gb for windows
link:https://www.overclockers.co.uk/samsung- ... 48-sa.html
link: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/samsung- ... 49-sa.html

graphic card: nvidia 3080 rtx
link:https://www.overclockers.co.uk/asus-gef ... 4k-as.html

fans: corsair pwm 120mm fans
link: https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Categorie ... 9050065-WW

aio water cooler cpu: kraken z73
link:https://www.overclockers.co.uk/nzxt-kra ... 1n-nx.html

Power Supply ?

Abula
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Re: New Gaming/Streaming pc

Post by Abula » Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:28 pm

Power Supply ?
Since you seem to want to go with RGB, Superflower is a very good OEM and has the following in stock,
LEADEX III ARGB 750W 80 PLUS GOLD MODULAR POWER SUPPLY - BLACK

If you don't want an RGB PSU, then i would suggest to with Seasonic,
PRIME GX-750 750W 80 PLUS GOLD MODULAR POWER SUPPLY

yan9
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:47 am
Location: UK Norwich

Re: New Gaming/Streaming pc

Post by yan9 » Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:53 pm

Hi Abula thankyou for your reply, I take it that 750 Watts is large enough for a power supply, I was thinking maybe 850watts for safety. If we went larger could you give recommendations please.
Also do you think the other components are compatible and ok for the build. Regarding fans we have gone for pwm fans are they ok. Thanks

Abula
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Re: New Gaming/Streaming pc

Post by Abula » Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:24 pm

A friend just built a i9 10900k + rtx3090 and it pulls from the wall with AIDA64 + Furmark = 566W, the 5950x is suppose to be a more efficient CPU, i doubt you will need more than 750W, both stress test will pull more than anything you do, so expect less than 550W, my guess streaming and gaming will be around 400W.

PSU are not as easy to find atm, COVID has affected the chain of supplies of components that are needed to build certain PSUs, i waited 5 months for a Titanium 850W, so keep in mind that if you plan on building before years end. Here are a couple of suggestions on 850W,

EVGA 850w SuperNOVA 850 G3 Power Supply/PSU
Corsair 850 Watt RM850x Fully Modular ATX Power Supply/PSU
Seasonic Focus GX 850 80+ GOLD PSU/Power Supply

yan9
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Location: UK Norwich

Re: New Gaming/Streaming pc

Post by yan9 » Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:12 am

Hi Abula thanks again, I think by the look of things your recommendation of the Seasonic Prime 750w would be fine.
Any comments on the other parts chosen is there anything there that won’t be suitable together that you can see.

CA_Steve
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Re: New Gaming/Streaming pc

Post by CA_Steve » Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:06 am

Just a couple of quick comments..

First, glad that you are recovering from your fall!

Second, insane CPU overkill for a gaming machine. There is absolutely zero benefit for going with this many cores and will never be a benefit over the lifetime of the PC. This CPU is for heavy duty CPU based tasks like rendering, etc. Take a look at Techpowerup's gaming graphs at the resolution you have.

Also, there is a performance hit on the SSD if you use the 256GB SKU. Not enough chips to populate the memory controller. Go with 500GB class for the OS. For the game SSD, it only affects game loading time, not play and there is little difference between the highest priced PCIe based SSD and the lowest.

yan9
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Location: UK Norwich

Re: New Gaming/Streaming pc

Post by yan9 » Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:42 am

Thanks Steve I am getting there.
Regarding the processor yes tell me about it, very difficult trying to explain to a 15 year old as there eyes sparkle at the cores and threads.
I will point him towards the Techpowerup’s graphs thanks. I just might be able to persuade him to change to a 500gb SD instead of 250gb.
Thank you for your input much appreciated.

CA_Steve
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Re: New Gaming/Streaming pc

Post by CA_Steve » Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:48 pm

Some other things to think about. Power used = heat = fan noise. So, while you might get 300fps playing an esport game at 1080p with the RTX 3080, your monitor is only going to display whatever it's refresh rate is. The rest is just waste heat/noise..and invariably coil whine from the GPU as it's gerbils are running full out. So, consider the monitor as part of the component equation...as well as use of frame rate limiting in his games of choice.

I kinda think the upcoming R5 5600 (non-X) will be the sweet spot for most gaming builds in terms of core count/base and boost freqs, and power use.

yan9
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Location: UK Norwich

Re: New Gaming/Streaming pc

Post by yan9 » Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:27 am

Hi Steve thanks again for valuable input, the monitor was upgraded at the beginning of the year as his other monitor was not good enough and he is know talking about going to 1440p or even 4K but that is beyond me at the moment.
I will definitely look into the R5 5600 and that will depend on the time frame of when it is coming out. :roll:

CA_Steve
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Re: New Gaming/Streaming pc

Post by CA_Steve » Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:58 am

Yeah, the R5 5600 might not be available until next year. So, the 5600X is a good alternative if you hope to build this year. New CPU and GPU inventories are a bit haphazard.. If you are looking at cost tradeoffs, and the monitor is 1080p or 1440p, consider dropping down to an RTX 3070. It'll even be decent for some games at 2160p, like Witcher 3.

If you want to save a bit on storage, going with the Kingston A2000 vs the Samsung 980 Pro for the 1TB game storage will save $100 and I don't think you'll see a noticeable difference in game load times.

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Re: New Gaming/Streaming pc

Post by CA_Steve » Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:00 am

2x8GB RAM is generally good enough for gaming builds. You haven't selected a CPU cooler, so make sure there is compatibility between the RAM height and it.

CA_Steve
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Re: New Gaming/Streaming pc

Post by CA_Steve » Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:05 am

The Asus Dark Hero board isn't out, yet. I lean toward waiting 2-3mo after release to let the bugs/firmware updates settle.

yan9
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Re: New Gaming/Streaming pc

Post by yan9 » Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:31 am

Plenty to think about and keep me busy with thanks Steve.
I think we will be picking an AIO 360mm cooler for the cpu.
My grandson has found that his gaming PC is no longer good enough for all of his needs.
He now wants to be able to do do gaming and streaming, video editing and rendering on a new pc at a high level with the possibility of 4k video.
He has struggled so much with his pc that he has said that he wants to make sure that this build is definitely powerfull enough for his needs with the option of using his existing pc for the streaming.

CA_Steve
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Re: New Gaming/Streaming pc

Post by CA_Steve » Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:54 am

okydoke. From what I remember of our earlier conversations, I think a lot of the troubles he saw with gaming speeds on his current PC might be more software issues than anything else. Possibly other programs running in the background hogging resources or just some Windows/game oddities that could be solved with a clean install.

In any case, you probably don't need to buy a Ryzen 9. For the rest, there are plenty of benchmarks out there. I recommend looking at Puget Systems' benchmarking articles for some real world usage ideas to get a feel for what's needed and what's overkill.

yan9
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Location: UK Norwich

Re: New Gaming/Streaming pc

Post by yan9 » Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:45 am

Hello Steve, yes I fully agree with your first paragraph and have explained all of this, and with how covid is at present and not being able to mix I cannot be there to help with software changes etc.
I had forgotten about the Puget Systems reviews I will take a look.
Regarding the Ryzen 9 5900 and 5950 CPU’s I believe some of the reviews that my grandson has pointed me to has these CPU’s topping the charts in gaming and video rendering etc the only cpu beating them is the threadripper series apparently, but at a much higher price. Regardless of cost he has his heart set on one of these and I can persuade no more.

Abula
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Re: New Gaming/Streaming pc

Post by Abula » Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:11 am

I think over time more cores will be better, programs like Adobe, Davinci, OBS, etc have opitized thier software for whats was available, mostly was intel quads, but with AMD last two gens pushing more cores i feel they will start to optimize for more cores, weather they are needed is something that will depend on each use.

I like to have a lot of cores, so i agree with you grandson, i think the 5900/5950x are really amazing cpus, specially for someone that wants to game, stream, might even record or render at the same time.

I really like the Asus Dark Hero, i think the second fully passive x570 which is very appealing to most of us here, but steve is right, the motherboard is not out yet, so if you plan on building soon, there is a big chance you wont be able to get it, if you start getting into a deadline.... i would suggest to consider Gigabyte B550 AORUS PRO AC, imo one of the best B550 both in price, heatsinks, vrms design, etc.

Olle P
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Re: New Gaming/Streaming pc

Post by Olle P » Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:03 am

Right now is definitely a bad time to build a brand new gaming PC!
I wholeheartedly agree with all of Steve's advice, with one exception: Going for more than 16GB of RAM isn't bad if video editing is on the menu. (And RAM is the relatively cheap part now.)

Financial (and psychological) aspects:
I think your grandson wants to much! He wants to go from substandard to top-of the-line in one go and quite possily exploits your gullability to get it.
Then what? The computer you give him won't stay in top shape for long, and then it will cost a small fortune in incremental upgrades to keep it at the top level the guy by then has gotten used to and "can't live without".
Who will pay the roughly $1,000 a year required to keep the computer at standard?

So for a bit of a rant:
As of right now there's a shortage of high end CPUs and graphics cards. The situation is expected to get a lot better early next year.
Even if you order all parts now it's not a given that everything will be delivered before X-mas. Especially the new RTX graphics cards are manufactured at a very low pace that can't meet demand. It's possibly easier to get your hands on a new Radeon RX 6800XT from AMD, even though they're not being sold yet.
If you wait to (early) next year the situation will be much better:
* The current SKUs will be in stock, not on back order. Prices should also have normalised (come down a bit).
* New (cheaper, but still capable) SKUs will be available.

I'd lower the bar a bit and get a capable computer at a significantly lower price:
* Wait until next year.
* CPU: At most a Ryzen 9 5900X, but more likely a Ryzen 7 of a SKU released next year, cheaper than the 5800X.
* Motherboard: Some B550.
* Graphics card: Probably someting based on Radeon RX 6800 (non XT). Otherwise RTX 3700.
* Storage: Cheap 2TB SSD. (1TB is likely not enough for video editing.)

yan9
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Location: UK Norwich

Re: New Gaming/Streaming pc

Post by yan9 » Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:15 pm

Hello Abula you post has pleased my grandson with your views on the Ryzen cpu's and Dark Hero board, although a bit of a wait.
There are a few other x570 boards that I have to check out.

yan9
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Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:47 am
Location: UK Norwich

Re: New Gaming/Streaming pc

Post by yan9 » Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:58 pm

Hi Olle P, yes we will be getting 32gb ram especially for video work. I don't agree my grandson is going from a sub standard pc as it was a half decent gaming pc when first purchased.
Regarding him exploiting my gullability far from it, I have told him all along that it is far to much money to spend. But as you may not know he is funding the build himself with his own earned money.
You then say that the computer will not stay in shape and cost a small fortune for upgrades. Well if you go the root of building 1,2, or 3 computers to get there you will possibly be spending at least as much, and not pleased with any of them not being up to the job. Then you are assuming someone else is paying for the computer to be kept up to date.
Yes we realise there is a shortage of some of the parts and it looks like nothing will be happening until next year. There is a shortage of Ryzen cpu's and 3080 gpu's and the Dark Hero board will probably be around late February if we wait for it, time will tell.

Olle P
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Re: New Gaming/Streaming pc

Post by Olle P » Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:08 am

yan9 wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:58 pm
... I don't agree my grandson is going from a sub standard pc as it was a half decent gaming pc when first purchased.
... You then say that the computer will not stay in shape and cost a small fortune for upgrades. Well if you go the root of building 1,2, or 3 computers to get there you will possibly be spending at least as much, and not pleased with any of them not being up to the job. ...
Even a computer that was top-of-the-line five years ago isn't that good today. Never evaluate of a computer in terms of how good it was when new, but how good it is right now.

I also strongly disagree with building all new computers all the time, but instead do incremental upgrades.
My own computer is about 20 years old, but only one or two parts of it remains from that time while some other parts are almost brand new. That way the computer stays at a fairly constant relative level of performance over the years while not demanding sizeable chunks of payment.
That relative level of performance should never be so low that it's "not up for the job"! I just think the desired parts are overkill for the intended job rather than well suited, but they will still set the standard for what level then has to be maintained. By starting with something that isn't much overkill it's easier to get a feel for what's actually required and where future upgrades makes most sense.
(Think of it like he wants to go into car racing. Right now he's got a beat-up stock car. He wants an F1 car but should do better with a Go-kart to learn the ropes before advancing.)

The "$1,000 a year" estimate stem from the fact that the video card and intended CPU are both high end and as such will drop in relative performance faster than more moderate parts. The guy will want better replacements about every second year as they become available.
There will also very likely be other parts qued up on the demand list: Better microphone/headset, better editing software, more storage, ...
Some money can be recovered by selling the used parts, but expect to get less than half the purchase price back.
yan9 wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:58 pm
... he is funding the build himself with his own earned money.
That's good!

yan9
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Re: New Gaming/Streaming pc

Post by yan9 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:42 pm

Well let's say we will agree to disagree I certainly didn't come on to the forum to be lectured to by your personnel thoughts.

yan9
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Re: New Gaming/Streaming pc

Post by yan9 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:25 am

Hi Steve sorry for my last mail but just got rubbed up the wrong way with some of the last comments.

CA_Steve
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Re: New Gaming/Streaming pc

Post by CA_Steve » Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:01 am

No worries. The reason you get feedback here is because people have strong opinions about PC builds. I think your grandson may be spending $500-1k more than he has to for his needs as maybe overkill for whatever unresolved problems the current PC has and maybe bragging rights. But, I tend toward more frugal builds. Spend as you see fit and I'll provide suggestions in par w/ a quiet build.

yan9
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Location: UK Norwich

Re: New Gaming/Streaming pc

Post by yan9 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:26 pm

Hi Steve yes I fully understand about about the excess build and I have explained to him my thoughts about this, but he is funding his own build and grandparents don't have the final say unless perhaps they are funding.
I know the reason behind this build are the problems he has encountered over the last two years now that he is competing in competitive tournaments and not just general gaming.
He has also not just decided to spend as much as he can for spending sake but looked into the specs of other tournament players as well.
Thanks for your input it always much appreciated and hopefully you can understand a little of the reasoning behind this build.

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