New Motherboard Help

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arsenal009
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New Motherboard Help

Post by arsenal009 » Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:49 am

Hey, I'm looking for a new motherboard.

My current specs are:
motherboard: ASUS Z170-A LGA 1151 https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813132566
heatsink: Scythe Cooling Motherboard SCKTT-1000: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JZ ... UTF8&psc=1
cpu: Intel Core I5-6600K: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en ... 0-ghz.html
gpu: ASUS ROG Strix Radeon RX 580 O8G Gaming OC Edition GDDR5 DP HDMI DVI VR Ready AMD Graphics Card: https://rog.asus.com/ca-en/graphics-car ... ing-model/
ram: G.SKILL Aegis 64GB (4 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 2400 (PC4 19200) Intel Z170 Platform / Intel X99 Platform Desktop Memory Model F4-2400C15Q-64GIS: https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288 ... 6820232258
psu SEASONIC X750 GOLD 750W R: https://www.amazon.com/SeaSonic-750W-Po ... B002VAFDQS
storage: samsung 500gb sata, crucial 1tb sata, & a couple hard drives
case: Fractal Design Define R5 ATX Tower Case: https://www.genericcomputer.com/prod_one.php?pid=10616

Basically I want to upgrade my processor, I'm thinking of getting the i5-12600K.
I would like to get a motherboard compatible with that processor & all the other parts that I have.

Is it possible? If not can you recommend me a motherboard as well as any additional parts I may need.

Thanks

CA_Steve
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Re: New Motherboard Help

Post by CA_Steve » Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:31 am

Just a quick note for right now:

New CPU = New socket (LGA1700). Everyone is rolling out socket adapters for existing inventory as well as updating the new production runs. What this means to you - Scythe isn't supporting the original Kotetsu with their adapter. So, you'll need a new cooler and adapter.

RAM and mobo: You can get a mobo that supports DDR4 or a mobo that supports DDR5. Not sure anyone is supporting both at this time. Only the Z690 chipsets are out. I haven't seen any DDR4 memory speed tests to see how flat (or not flat) the performance is as speed goes up. the Z690 supports up to DDR4 3200 (prior to any overclocking). So, DDR4 2400 should work, but I don't know the performance hit vs say 3200 or vs a DDR5 board. Definitely a higher buy in going with DDR5. In general, DDR5 provides better performance over DDR4 3200 in multi-threaded tasks and a slight benefit in gaming.

Here's a sample list of DDR4 compatible mobos at pcpartpicker. I haven't dived in deep enough to say "get this mobo" other than to ask what your needs are and to mention if you don't like to be a BIOS/firmware beta tester, wait 3 months for the updates to settle down.

Everything else should work.

CA_Steve
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Re: New Motherboard Help

Post by CA_Steve » Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:43 am

Looking through the Asus boards..if this is a preference for you...

The Asus PRIME Z690-P D4 has a Realtek 2.5G NIC and the TUF GAMING Z690-PLUS WIFI D4 uses Intel. Neither lists which Realtek audio solution they use...other than the TUF has a cover shield.

arsenal009
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Re: New Motherboard Help

Post by arsenal009 » Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:49 am

Ok thanks. Is there a cpu cooler you can recommend me under $50?

CA_Steve
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Re: New Motherboard Help

Post by CA_Steve » Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:16 pm

Under $50? not really. Under heavy loads, the i5-12600K can consume a fair bit of power. I'd lean toward a larger cooler than the Kotetsu, like the Fuma 2 @$60 +$8 for the LGA1700 adapter (SCMK-1700). Or, the Noctua NH-14S for $80 plus the free adapter you'll need to get from Noctua.

Some Noctua coolers are not compatible with some Asus motherboards due to clearance issues. Double check the list posted here.

As always, double check cooler RAM clearance specs with your existing RAM.

Japanese Capacitor
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Re: New Motherboard Help

Post by Japanese Capacitor » Mon Nov 15, 2021 2:16 pm

@arsenal009 12600K is more serious one than 6600K, especially if your usage are multithreaded workloads, so spend more than less on it's cooler. I don't even mean higher temperatures, but imo few years of listening to louder operation isn't worth saving here. Steve gave you great recommendations, but I would add to the list be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4 - it's a little better than U14S, but in some regions costs the same and 1700 mounting kit is also free. Also DRP4's quality make much better impression than Noctua's - flimsy vs sturdy as hell radiator, the same with fans. Ofc when choosing the cooler check compatibility with chosen ram, motherboard and case ( this one shouldn't be a problem here) or come back here with final choices ;)

You could also think about getting a NVMe drive - maybe such makes a difference with your usage.

arsenal009
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Re: New Motherboard Help

Post by arsenal009 » Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:36 am

I can get the Noctua NH-D15S for the same price as the Noctua NH-U14S.
or the be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4 for $10 more.
What do you recommend?

Also, I'm thinking of getting the Asus PRIME Z690-P D4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard.
Is it compatible with my 2 hard drives?

CA_Steve
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Re: New Motherboard Help

Post by CA_Steve » Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:12 pm

arsenal009 wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:36 am
Also, I'm thinking of getting the Asus PRIME Z690-P D4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard.
Is it compatible with my 2 hard drives?
You have 2 SATA SSDs + 2 (I'm assuming) SATA Hard drives. The mobo has 4 SATA ports. If you have an Optical drive or something else that needs a SATA port, then you will be short. You'd have to:
- go up to the Strix boards to get 6 SATA ports (pricey); or
- buy a PCIe to SATA 3.0 expansion board (~$20); or
- Buy a NVMe SSD to replace one of the SSDs. (Probably cheaper and better than spending $100+ more for the mobo upgrade)

Abula
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Re: New Motherboard Help

Post by Abula » Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:44 pm

Steve from Hardware Unboxed recommends the MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4 as one of the best value oriented motherboards for the 12600k, i left the video at the time of his remark How Bottlenecked Is Battlefield 2042? CPU Benchmark feat. 128-Player Battles, the board has been getting very good user reviews on newegg, i yet to see another mobo doing as good as it.

On cooler, Noctua NH-D15s is the best cooler available (if you add the 2nd fan), but the difference between it and Scythe Fuma2 is fairly small, specially if you end up buying taller ram where you wont be able to use the frontal fan, where the Fuma2 will allow to use both fans still, that not to mention its almost half the price (adding the second fan). Even Steve, from GamerNexus, had the Scythe Fuma2 as the best overall cooler, Best CPU Coolers 2021: Air Coolers & Liquid Coolers for AMD and Intel CPUs

On both coolers you still need to get LGA1700 bracket,
Scythe Mounting Kit for LGA1700 Socket (SCMK-1700)
Noctua NM-i17xx-MP83 chromax.Black, Mounting Kit CPU Coolers on Intel's LGA1700 Platform (Black)

arsenal009
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Re: New Motherboard Help

Post by arsenal009 » Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:22 am

Unfortunately Fuma2 is more expensive than everything else where I live so I will go with the NH-D15s since you mentioned it's the best & at a comparable price with the others.
I also noticed the price of the 11600k just dropped drastically so I want to get that instead of the 12600k.

I also realized I need a solution with 5 satas (2 ssd, 2 hdd, & 1 optical disk drive)
As well as an optical audio port for my Under-Monitor Soundbar.

Can you recommend me a motherboard for that setup?
I'm ok with adding a PCIe to SATA 3.0 expansion board &/or soundcard if that makes the solution cheaper. If so, can you recommend me which of those I should get as well?

Sorry for the trouble. :s

Japanese Capacitor
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Re: New Motherboard Help

Post by Japanese Capacitor » Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:29 am

There's more scientific than noticeable difference between Dark Rock Pro 4, U14 and D15S, but DRP4 is the best one in terms of cooling/noise balance - will give you the same temperature with lower noise. First choose CPU and mobo, then we will think about the best cooler for you.

To my taste overclockable 11th gen CPUs are not worth it - from standpoints of overclocking "potential"; price premium you need to pay for just decent Z590 board and difference they make compared to non-K ones. If you are price-conscious, check prices of non-K i5s and i7s. There're also F versions which are even cheaper, but lack integrated graphics, which may turn out bad idea. You should tell us what you need your computer for and if few activites, their priorities - only then it makes sense to discuss about CPUs, mobos or even coolers ;)

arsenal009
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Re: New Motherboard Help

Post by arsenal009 » Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:52 am

The 11600 is sold out, but even if it weren't it's only $10 cheaper than the 11600k.
I'm not comfortable with F versions just in case.
i7s are way more expensive.

I use financial databases & have multiple browsers & tabs open all at once on multiple screens.
I also game occasionally.
I sometimes am getting slowdown which I want to eliminate.

I think the 11600k would be an adequate upgrade for me.

arsenal009
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Re: New Motherboard Help

Post by arsenal009 » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:01 am

I'm looking for motherboards & I see things stated for onboard usb like:
1 x USB 3.2 Gen 1 header supports additional 2 USB 3.2 Gen 1 ports
2 x USB 2.0 headers support additional 4 USB 2.0 ports

How do I know what I need for my 4 front panel usbs on my Fractal Design Define R5?

Japanese Capacitor
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Re: New Motherboard Help

Post by Japanese Capacitor » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:14 am

510 boards are garbage and garbage boards won't allow CPU as 11600K reach it's full performance - question is only how noticeably in your tasks. If we talk about gaming, modern games and upcoming ones, difference would be serious enough to see garbage board as definitely bad idea, especially if you plan someday mix this CPU with some stronger GPU. There's also no point mixing K CPU with non-Z board. There're also 11500 and 11400 CPUs, which make much more sense if you really need to save here.

Tasks you named benefit from higher core/thread count, so paying more for i7 11700 makes sense to make your experience better. Yes, it's more expensive, but is price difference really that high when you consider using it for another five years like you used 6600K and compare this price difference to your 5-years income? Especially that this computer serves you to make this money. Pair it with great board in type of B560 Aorus PRO AX and you have everything awesome for another few years plus no need of additional costs - great audio, so no need of buying sound card, no need of SATA extensions, all Define's front USBs utilized. If you were satisfied with tiny tower like Kotetsu, you don't need high-end coolers we talked about and something way cheaper like Shadow Rock 3 will satisfy you again.

arsenal009
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Re: New Motherboard Help

Post by arsenal009 » Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:38 pm

I wouldn't say I really need to save. Just that, if I get the 11600k, on benchmarks it's more than 3x better than what I currently have, has 2 more cores & 8 more threads than what I currently have, & is $50 cheaper than the 12600k. Just don't want to pay for more than what I need, that's all.
The i7s are more expensive than the 12600k so doesn't make sense to go for those.
11400 & 11500 are same price or more expensive than 11600k.

I don't mind paying a bit more for a cool & quiet cooler. I used to have the prolimatech megahalems before the kotetsu. I got both those coolers based on recommendations from this website :p

Since the cheapest motherboard for 12600k costs CAD$ 276, I figured I could save an additional $50-100 on the motherboard if I went with the 11600k.
I looked into the B560 Aorus PRO AX: https://www.newegg.ca/p/N82E16813145275 ... bWyZNf3I3g
It doesn't seem to have the optical audio port that I need for my soundbar.

I notice this $210 Asus PRIME Z590-V motherboard allows me to overclock & has the optical audio port: https://www.newegg.ca/p/N82E16813119418 ... 0dIKf5LodQ

Does it allow me to use all my 4 front panel usb ports?
If so, I could transfer everything from my 2TB hdd to my 4TB hdd + external hdd and when needed later down the line I could buy a PCIe to SATA 3.0 expansion board or an NVMe SSD.

Or would you recommend I get a motherboard with more rear panel usb ports & internal sata slots from the following list + a sound card?
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/products/mo ... 16&L=4&f=2
Last edited by arsenal009 on Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

arsenal009
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Re: New Motherboard Help

Post by arsenal009 » Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:10 pm

Ok, there is also this $197 MSI MPG Z490 GAMING PLUS: https://www.newegg.ca/p/N82E16813144305 ... _AtmwNYwIg

I get 6 satas + optical audio out. So no need for getting rid of one of my hdds.
It's also $190, so $20 cheaper than the Asus PRIME Z590-V.
Does it allow me to use my 4 front panel usbs?
Is the PCIe 3.0 instead of the PCIe 4.0a deal breaker?


Or, for $220 I could get the MSI MPG Z590 GAMING PLUS: https://www.newegg.ca/p/N82E16813144388 ... A3V6LWb4NA

I would get PCIe 4.0 & 2 additional usb ports in the back (which I could use).
Can someone confirm I will be able to use my 4 front panel usbs with this motherboard?

Japanese Capacitor
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Re: New Motherboard Help

Post by Japanese Capacitor » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:10 am

arsenal009 wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:38 pm
The i7s are more expensive than the 12600k so doesn't make sense to go for those
It makes sense and I told you exactly why in my previous post ;) The same with more RAM, so I would go with 32 GB. i7 will do better in your tasks (multiple browser tabs, monitors, generally multitasking), the same in games in the long run. 6/12 is reasonable minimum for modern games - it means for now there's no need of buing more, but assuming that games will get more core/thread hungry in the same pace as they were getting during last 10 years, wait not more than two years for it to start doing worse. Price premium for i7 is about paying more for better experience today, but also this chip getting old in better style. Do what you want, just choose the CPU and then we can talk about motherboards. Just type three or five boards you would like to get and then I'll advice you what's best. Also think about anything you forgot to mention like this optical port.

If you don't mind paying more for better cooler, go with Dark Rock Pro 4. Whatever CPU you get, it will handle it, but treat it as a upper border of cooler which makes sense. If your choice would be, let's say, non-overclockable or overclockable without plans to overclock CPU and all you do is what you said and gaming, things like Shadow Rock 3 or Scythe Mugen 5 would do the same well - just few #nobody degrees warmer with the same noise. Quiet operation of cooler is more about setting well it's fan curve, not buying expensive one - expensive ones are powerful and it means they can get loud, but they are also best at efficiency - strong cooling with low speeds of fans and here we come back to fan curves.

To utilize all your front panel USB's you need internal connectors: USB 2.0 and 3.0 (or higher 3.X which are standard nowadays). One connector serves two the same type USBs on front panel, so one USB 2.0 on the board will utilize two USB 2.0 on the case.

PCIe 4.0 is all about 4.0 NVMe drives and future GPUs being faster with it. For now it's mostly about drives, but you need to do tasks, which benefit from drives faster than 3.0 NVMe or even standard SATA SSD - I don't see such tasks in what you said, but maybe you forgot something. For example video rendering, where it's better to work on faster drives. Installing NVMe drive means also disabling some SATA ports on the board.

arsenal009
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Re: New Motherboard Help

Post by arsenal009 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:49 am

Ok, I've decided to go with the 11600k & the Dark Rock Pro 4.

I'm liking the MSI MPG Z590 GAMING PLUS https://www.newegg.ca/p/N82E16813144388 ... A3V6LWb4NA
I already have 64GB of ram which I am going to use with it: G.SKILL Aegis 64GB (4 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 2400 (PC4 19200) Intel Z170 Platform / Intel X99 Platform Desktop Memory Model F4-2400C15Q-64GIS: https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288 ... 6820232258

The board has 7 usb ports & optical port on the rear panel. And 6 sata slots.
If I eventually get an nvme, how many sata drives would I have to disable?
Based on what you wrote, the MSI MPG Z590 GAMING PLUS will be compatible with the front panel of my Fractal Design Define R5 correct?

CA_Steve
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Re: New Motherboard Help

Post by CA_Steve » Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:14 am

Pg 16 of the manual:
PCI_E3 will be unavailable when installing M.2 SSD in the M2_2 slot. SATA2
will be unavailable when installing M.2 SATA SSD in the M2_2 slot.
** SATA5 & SATA6 will be unavailable when installing M.2 SSD in the M2_3 slot.
Looks like a nice motherboard. Intel NIC and good audio codec. Double check clearances to make sure DR4 and mobo are compatible.

USB: You have the case right there. Go look at the case cabling :)

Japanese Capacitor
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Re: New Motherboard Help

Post by Japanese Capacitor » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:06 am

This Z590 Gaming Plus is really nice board. If you would like built-in wifi and bluetooth, I would consider comparable Z590 Aorus Elite AX, which also is now on nice sale and $10 cheaper on Newegg. But my advice here is always the same - if no problem use stationary computer with damn stationary cable and bluetooth USB plug is cheap and works flawlessly. Yes, these front USBs will work with both boards and info about disabling SATAs by M2 drive you get from manual as Steve's shown.

Dark Rock Pro 4 is compatibile with both boards, ram and case, but if you don't plan to overclock 11600K, you don't need to spend that much on CPU cooler. Something like Shadow Rock 3; Thermalright Macho Rev. C; Scythe Mugen 5B/5S or Ninja 5 will do the same well. If you plan to overclock it, fine, but it won't be faster and all the difference you will notice will be cooler needing to work louder and more heat coming from computer to your room.

arsenal009
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Re: New Motherboard Help

Post by arsenal009 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:53 pm

Thanks for info about nvme & sata drives.

It was mentioned a couple times that I don't need that powerful of a cooler.
From what I understand, my current cooler, the Scythe Cooling Motherboard SCKTT-1000 is compatible with this motherboard & processor?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JZ ... UTF8&psc=1

If so, can I just keep my current cooler?

Japanese Capacitor
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Re: New Motherboard Help

Post by Japanese Capacitor » Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:23 pm

You can, but treat yourself better.

CA_Steve
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Re: New Motherboard Help

Post by CA_Steve » Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:22 am

Try the Kotetsu and see if it meets your needs. No harm no foul.

CA_Steve
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Re: New Motherboard Help

Post by CA_Steve » Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:38 am

If your thermal paste is as old as your current CPU, consider getting some new stuff. Arctic has come out with MX-5.

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