"Venice" Athlon 64 power & heat review

All about them.

Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee

dan
Posts: 1243
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:01 am
Contact:

Post by dan » Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:06 am

Mats wrote:
dan wrote:hi
Sisandra reports that the cpu is putting out 23 watts of electricity. It is D0 stepping. i cannot help but wonder if i sell my cpu and get a venice core, i can more deeply undervolt.
Why would you? Isn't it good as it is?
:)

well according to lost circuits venice cores (what is the name for a venice cored sempron anyhow?) run 24% less power than same-clocked winchestors.

76% of 23 watts is around 18 watts :)

Mats
Posts: 3044
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 6:54 am
Location: Sweden

Post by Mats » Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:20 pm

dan wrote:well according to lost circuits venice cores (what is the name for a venice cored sempron anyhow?) run 24% less power than same-clocked winchestors.

76% of 23 watts is around 18 watts :)
Not really.
A64E 2.4 GHz: 30.8 W >>>> 2.2 GHz: 28.2 W
A64D 2.2 GHz: 31.6 W

That's a 12 % difference.

But, you didn't answer my question. Why should you change? Isn't your current one good enough? Don't you like it? Is it really too hot? Do you think that a new one would make that big difference in real world?

Have you tried undervolting?

...and yes, I know that "bleeding edge is never cheap...blabla.." :D

dan
Posts: 1243
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:01 am
Contact:

Post by dan » Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:53 pm

when i say my sempron is currently running at 1.008volts that's b/c i undervolted it.

i bought a soltek SL-K8AN2E-GR SOLTEK and undervolted it from the bios at boot-up. it's a palmero core. i bought a SL-K8AN2E-GR SOLTEK due to spcr's recommendation. doesn't have fan control.

well strictly speaking i don't have to buy it but at $80 sempron's aren't very expensive. one way to think of it is if i can undervolt a venice core more deeply than a winchestor, and say i can sell my sempron for $60 used, then to spend $20 for a more undervoltable cpu is a lot like buying a better heatsink - except it adds sse3 and supports t1 rather than t2 timing.

perplex
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:29 pm
Location: Club Tropicana

Post by perplex » Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:27 pm

dan are the 90nm Semprons venice core or winchester? i thought it was winchester?

dan
Posts: 1243
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:01 am
Contact:

Post by dan » Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:33 pm

strictly speaking winchestor is the D-stepping and venice E-stepping apply to the socket 939 cores, i believe.

mine is 90nm 754 with NO SSE3 and T2 timing. presumbaly an E-stepping sempron would support SSE3 and T1 memory timing. it' s D0 stepping.

it's my understanding it's "palmero" but it's not clear to me what an E-stepping sempron would be named.

theoretically speaking, buying an improved core cpu would be comparable to buying a better heatsink in cooling.


Slidax
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:55 pm
Location: Australia

Post by Slidax » Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:44 pm

dan wrote: well according to lost circuits venice cores (what is the name for a venice cored sempron anyhow?) run 24% less power than same-clocked winchestors.

76% of 23 watts is around 18 watts :)
When i run samba with the same cpu specs as mentioned in my earlier post it reports either 18W or 28W, maybe because of CnQ if samba momentarily puts on 100% load?

Not sure how this helps but for the sake of 5W is it worth upping to a venice core.... having said that they are very nice CPUs :)

Mats
Posts: 3044
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 6:54 am
Location: Sweden

Post by Mats » Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:57 pm

Dan: I think you should wait for Sempron with 64 bit extensions, they should arrive soon, 1-2 months.

You know that SiSoft Sandra is not reliable in every way. If you're trust LostCircuits' data just like I do, then your CPU draws 11.9 W (2.2 GHz, 1.4 V, 31.6 W @ 1.6 GHz, 1.008 V), and a stepping E counterpart would use 10.6 W (2.4 GHz, 1.4 V, 30.8 W @ 1.6 GHz, 1.008 V), big deal.

Personally I couldn't care less about SSE3, I wouldn't have any use for it at all.

All S754, 90 nm Semprons are called Palermo so far for some reason.

dan
Posts: 1243
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:01 am
Contact:

Post by dan » Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:52 pm

i agree with you 100% 1 watt isn't a big deal.

i would love to think my cpu is putting out only 12 watts, but when i turn the fan off with the stock heatsink the temps slowly climb over an hour from 28C to 50C (at which point i turn the fan back on) so i find it hard to believe it is only 12 watts as that would be Via C3 territory.

NeilBlanchard
Moderator
Posts: 7681
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 7:11 pm
Location: Maynard, MA, Eaarth
Contact:

Post by NeilBlanchard » Mon Jun 20, 2005 2:29 am

Hello Dan:

It takes an hour to get to 50C? With the stock HS -- in what case?! I'd say that it sounds like you are confirming the 12watts output! Just put a "real" HS on there, and/or get better case air flow -- and you'll run passive, I'll bet. :twisted:

astrayan
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:54 am
Location: astraya

Post by astrayan » Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:07 pm

Pétur wrote:Same problem here, can't get my (brand new) Venice to go below 1.1V on my Gigabyte K8NXP-9 :( I can select it, but it limits it to 1.1V
Peter
We're suspecting it's a BIOS "problem". Someone told me on the grapevine that this problem occurred after someone around here upgraded the BIOS. I had 1009 and went to 1014Beta. Neither of them work. I'm still looking for this posting.

I found Crystal had a very large lag when I used it. Sometimes it took 3 seconds to switch on. RMClock is much more responsive, but it has some setting which mean different things to what you think. Like maximum and minimum profiles are a lock to maximum or minimum.

I have mailed ASUS. I've put a note on
http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.c ... board.asus
and also
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/sho ... hp?t=66279
But Xtreme takes 2 days to register if you want to help me *bump* those threads.

dan
Posts: 1243
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:01 am
Contact:

Post by dan » Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:05 am

my SOYO TISU could stay cool at 45C with pure passive so i believe it's 10 watts.

the sempron will slowly climb to over 50C and continue so i believe it's 20 watts.

i don't know how to post pics directly on this website so i loaded it to my email profile here's my link
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/dhwang92

incidentally all of the newer components i bought due to SPCR's recommendation -- the seasonic tornado 300 watts, sempron 90nm, soltek gr motherboard for undervolting, nforce 3 passively cooled.

currently it's using amd-supplied retail stock heatsink and fan, running at 5volts.

also it's 87F ambient wise

perplex
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:29 pm
Location: Club Tropicana

Post by perplex » Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:01 am

hey dan, it sounds like you need an xp-120 or some tower passive cooler :?: :roll:

dan
Posts: 1243
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:01 am
Contact:

Post by dan » Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:26 am

thanks :)

perplex
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:29 pm
Location: Club Tropicana

Post by perplex » Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:51 am

i can hopefully passively cool a undervolted sempron 3300+ with good airflow in a antec BQE !

Pétur
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:09 pm
Location: Gent, Belgium

Post by Pétur » Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:32 pm

astrayan wrote:We're suspecting it's a BIOS "problem". Someone told me on the grapevine that this problem occurred after someone around here upgraded the BIOS. I had 1009 and went to 1014Beta. Neither of them work. I'm still looking for this posting.
I was think along the same lines, so I've posted a question in the Gigabyte service center. All my previous questions got answered in the past, so I hope to know more about this soon.

And I do hope it's BIOS, since that is easy to change if they're so kind to provide a fixed version ;)

Peter

astrayan
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:54 am
Location: astraya

Post by astrayan » Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:50 pm

Peter,

What version of the amdk8.sys device driver do you have? I find it very problematic to install a 2004 version. That's the most recent version I've managed to find so far.

Click on the processor driver in device manager etc.

I'm starting to wonder about the BIOS theory. I tracked down where the voltage and CPU multiplier were stored in the CMOS RAM [3E 3F], and then started to look for a way to disassemble the BIOS. Confronted by a bit of a brick wall with this type of reverse engineering, I started wondering what calls RMClock etc were actually using. I presume they start in amdk8.sys. So that could be half the problem. This is a highly undocumented area.

scruzbeachbum
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:15 am
Location: California

Post by scruzbeachbum » Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:39 am

Hey Dan, here's a funny thought:

The waste heat of your PSU is probably more than your CPU power :D

dan
Posts: 1243
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:01 am
Contact:

Post by dan » Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:55 am

lol thing is i don't think the waste heat is all that much, i dobut my psu is putting out much more than 60watts if

motherboard 20watts including memory
matrox g450 -- 5 watts according to matrox
hard drive -10 watts
amd cpu 25 watts

scruzbeachbum
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:15 am
Location: California

Post by scruzbeachbum » Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:12 am

...probably around 75% efficiency at that power usage...so 20W. It's close :D

dan
Posts: 1243
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:01 am
Contact:

Post by dan » Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:38 pm

do you think my estimates are reasonable?

To: "Dan" <sickofspam@yahoo.com>
From: "Dennis Stellinga (Matrox Inbound Sales)" <dstellin@matrox.com> Add to Address BookAdd to Address Book
Subject: Re: ? about g450 power consumption
Hello,
The Millennium G450, under the most strenuous conditions, will draw 10 watts (9.8W max) The Millennium G450 normally runs at 3.3 volts but is backwards compatible with the AGP pro slot and will automatically switch to the required 1.5 volts when installed in a PC with a Pentium IV motherboard.

To: "Dan" <@yahoo.com>
From: "Dennis Stellinga (Matrox Inbound Sales)" <dstellin@matrox.com> Add to Address BookAdd to Address Book
Subject: Re: ? about g450 power consumption
Yes, approximately.

At 06:06 PM 03/13/2003, you wrote:

> thanks.
>
> i don't need a powerful 3d card. so i take it that
> typicall it draws just 5 watts? thanks.
>
> dan

From: "Dennis Stellinga" <dstellin@matrox.com> Add to Address BookAdd to Address Book
Subject: Re: 130nm?
Hello,
The Millennium P650 has passive cooling and has a power consumption of approx. 20 watts, standard for a video card of this caliber.

At 01:36 AM 23/10/2003, you wrote:

> hello,
> do you have any DVI card built on a 130nm fabrication?
> which DVI model has the lowest power consumption with
> passive cooling? (as my current self-built pc is
> silent).
>
> thanks
> dan


From: "Dennis Stellinga" <dstellin@matrox.com> Add to Address BookAdd to Address Book
Subject: Re: 130nm?
AGP 4X is synonymous with AGP Pro

perplex
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:29 pm
Location: Club Tropicana

Post by perplex » Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:44 am

dan the G550 has DVI and has similar power consumption to G450 i guess.
dan is your sempron socket 754?

dan
Posts: 1243
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:01 am
Contact:

Post by dan » Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:34 am

yes it is 1.6ghz 256k cache model 2800+ 90nm palmero core. no sse3

perplex
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:29 pm
Location: Club Tropicana

Post by perplex » Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:44 am

i'm thinking of getting sempron 3300+ 90nm and undervolting like you :lol:

dan
Posts: 1243
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:01 am
Contact:

Post by dan » Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:15 am

perplex wrote:i'm thinking of getting sempron 3300+ 90nm and undervolting like you :lol:
:) join the club. i would recommend that it is venice core. either dfi or soltek can undervolt.

Pétur
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:09 pm
Location: Gent, Belgium

Post by Pétur » Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:09 am

astrayan wrote:What version of the amdk8.sys device driver do you have? I find it very problematic to install a 2004 version. That's the most recent version I've managed to find so far.
None, AFAIK (have de-installed C'n'Q since it would only run in low-power mode and didn't ramp up under load). Did I mention I'm running W2K?

Got reply from Gigabyte, they state that below 1.1V is below spec and could cause system instability. I wrote back that I want to go below, just like overclockers want to go above :) We'll see what comes up. I asked the clearly this time if this was a bios limitation.

Peter

StarfishChris
Posts: 968
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:13 pm
Location: Bristol, UK
Contact:

Post by StarfishChris » Sat Jun 25, 2005 10:05 am

I asked ASUS and they said the same, even though I pointed out that the K8V lets you do it... I think it's a VIA chipset thing.

perplex
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:29 pm
Location: Club Tropicana

Post by perplex » Sat Jun 25, 2005 10:45 am

dan wrote:
perplex wrote:i'm thinking of getting sempron 3300+ 90nm and undervolting like you :lol:
:) join the club. i would recommend that it is venice core. either dfi or soltek can undervolt.
:? :? :? thought Sempron 90nm are their own cache reduced Winchester core or something? not Venice? if Venice what a bonus now!

Mats
Posts: 3044
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 6:54 am
Location: Sweden

Post by Mats » Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:13 pm

perplex wrote:
dan wrote:
perplex wrote:i'm thinking of getting sempron 3300+ 90nm and undervolting like you :lol:
:) join the club. i would recommend that it is venice core. either dfi or soltek can undervolt.
:? :? :? thought Sempron 90nm are their own cache reduced Winchester core or something? not Venice? if Venice what a bonus now!
Yes, they are available as both Winchester and Venice, and the Venice version are available as both 32 bit and 64/32 bit. So there are three 90 nm versions and they're all called Palermo (Well, at least the 32 bit versions for sure). Just make sure you get the 64 bit version. :wink:

Mats
Posts: 3044
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 6:54 am
Location: Sweden

Post by Mats » Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:17 pm

More info here about Sempron 64. Some say that you'll be able to activate 64 bit mode on older Sempron K8. Now don't tell me I'm wrong because I don't say it works. I'm just the messenger! :D

Post Reply