Mb and CPU for HTPC

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karsekongen
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Mb and CPU for HTPC

Post by karsekongen » Tue May 15, 2007 10:32 am

Hi

I'm building a HTPC for DVD/DIVX/MP3 (HD-DVD maybe)

I can't decide on a cpu and motherboard any suggestions?

passively cooled if possible and hopefully enough "power" for 1080pp (if possible with integrated graphics).

INTEL or AMD dosen't matter, but i'm temptet by AMD's pricing :D

I'm on a rather thight buget, so cheap suggestions would be appreciated ;)

Lawrence Lee
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Post by Lawrence Lee » Tue May 15, 2007 10:53 am

AMD X2 3600+ Brisbane
Biostar TA690G or Asus M2A-VM
Geforce 8500 (8xxx is great for 1080P/H.264 decoding, also HDCP ready for HD-DVD/BluRay)

karsekongen
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Post by karsekongen » Tue May 15, 2007 1:26 pm

thanks.

forgot to mention that i'm using a pico-120 psu and micro-atx or smaller.
I would like to use integrated graphics to keep size and price down.
Is it possible with a good result??

are 690G mb better than GeForce 6100 ?

AMD X2 3600+ Brisbane seems interesting, does it undervolt well?

How about the slightly more exspensive Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8 GHz?

I would love an passively cooled HTPC :D

johno
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Post by johno » Tue May 15, 2007 6:28 pm

The advantage of the 690G over the 6100 is that you get onboard DVI. The 6150 based boards with DVI are reportedly more power hungry than the 690G ones.

The E4300 is a nice enough chip, but it's tough getting a good low power motherboard for it. They usually use a lot more power than the boards for AMD chips, and it is hard to find ones with DVI/HDMI output. The advantage of the Core 2 Duo chips is that they are more efficient under load, but in many cases that will only just offset the added motherboard draw (but still leaving more heat load at idle).

In terms of passive cooling, be careful of the Asus M2A-VM. Its northbridge chip gets hot easily, and would need some better heatsinking arrangement. It doesn't need a lot of airflow to keep it cool, but does need some.

Max Slowik
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Post by Max Slowik » Tue May 15, 2007 7:56 pm

forgot to mention that i'm using a pico-120 psu
I don't think you can pull this off and have a good HTPC. I mean, yes, they are low power, but they're not quite there yet. You can probably do it at 180W, but, well see for yourself:

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=37 ... ert&pid=12

Toss in a TV tuner and you'll realistically risk overloading it.

johno
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Post by johno » Tue May 15, 2007 10:35 pm

I don't know about their test at 76W idle - but my 690G setup uses 49W idle at the wall. I've got a 65nm 4800+ rather than the (maybe 90nm) 5200+ and no external sound card. That's at the PSU input too, and with my power supply running at around 70% efficiency at that load point (Antec SU-380), the PSU needs to supply about 35W.

Of course, under load it is going to draw a lot more. My tuner card adds about another 6W to the total system load. Playing SD DVB doesn't really bring the load up much, so I don't think the consumption is much above idle.

I don't see my system using more than 120W, and even that link is only 126W loaded including the PSU losses, which suggests less than 100W at the PSU output. So depending on how well matched the load is between the different supply voltages, it seems achievable to me.

johno
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Post by johno » Wed May 16, 2007 1:57 am

I've just put my 690G setup on the power meter. It runs at 55W idle with the DTV tuner in it. Playing a DVD or DVB TV in full screen pushes it up to between 70 and 80W depending on content. During boot, the power appeared to peak at round 120W momentarily.

By loading the CPU, I get:

1x cpuburn: 95W
2x cpuburn: 123W

So with that one at only 20% margin, you'd really have to watch currents at each voltage with the Athlon 4800.

karsekongen
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Post by karsekongen » Wed May 16, 2007 7:29 am

Thanks for the advice

I guess i'll go for a 690G based system.


is AMD X2 3600+ Brisbane the best performance/power option?? if undervoltet/clocked?

How do i recognise the brisbane core from the other ones?

Max Slowik
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Post by Max Slowik » Wed May 16, 2007 7:59 am

If you can afford it, and also don't mind Intel integrated graphics:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813127009

That with a Merom laptop processor will definitely get you under 120W.

karsekongen
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Post by karsekongen » Wed May 16, 2007 8:05 am

I think it's a little bit too expensive. I'm from Denmark and it's more like 180$ here :(

lucky bastards...

johno
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Post by johno » Wed May 16, 2007 3:51 pm

For the 65nm Brisbane core, you'd be after box code: ADO3600DDBOX. It is printed on a sticker on the lid. The DD part of that indicates the 65nm Dual core range. The other one you find is CU - which is the old 90nm. Alternatively, the tray code is ADO3600IAA5DD. Again the DD is the important bit.

Other options are a higher speed model underclocked/undervolted, but I don't think you'd end out much ahead. Also there are the single core models. They use less power, but I don't know the performance loss in practice, and it will depend on the application. In that case you'd be after the DE code parts.

You can find the part codes here (with Manufacturing Tech giving the series) http://www.amdcompare.com/us-en/desktop/

autoboy
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Post by autoboy » Wed May 16, 2007 7:53 pm

The 65nm 3600+ will undervolt to below 1.1V at full load. You will should easily come in under 120W after boot, however, software undervolting does not kick in until after windows has loaded which loads the psu until the computer is booted. It should be able to handle that temporary load but it could be close.

The 690 chipset is the best chipset for a HTPC. The 6100 is not a HTPC chipset because it does not support any purevideo features which are important for the best picture quality. The 6150 is also pretty good, but does not score as high on HQV video benchmarks as the 690. The new Nvidia 7050 is the 6150 with a few advancements and I have never seen a review for the video quality yet, but it does support HDMI. No onboard graphics are designed to handle outputting a 1080p video signal in VMR9. They max out at 1080i and 720p but they can handle video in overlay mode (not supported by windows media center). Both systems should have no problems taking a 1080p video and downrezzing it to 720p.

The 3600+ is a capable chip, but it will struggle with HD DVD without some sort of offloading from the chipset. Both the 6150 and the 690 can help offload the cpu, but it may still struggle with some high bitrate h264 content. mpeg2 and vc-1 will be just fine. Hardware h264 decoding is only available through special codecs from cyberlink and powerdvd. HD DVD and BluRay are not really ready to be released on HTPCs because of the hardware and software support. By the time it works out and hd dvd is ready for the HTPC, you will be able to buy a new AMD Phenom chip that can handle the decoding without difficulty regardless of the hardware accel. Phenom chips are also slated to be released in 45W configurations standard.

Max Slowik
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Post by Max Slowik » Wed May 16, 2007 8:01 pm

More to the point, when HD content becomes accessible, AMD will be releasing their HD-accelerated chipset.

A little bird told me so. It also said late Q3.

Poodle
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Post by Poodle » Sun May 20, 2007 9:38 am

m2a-vm hdmi is excellent as it has: VGA/DVI/S-Video/Composite/Component and dual view from the box.
Max Slowik wrote:More to the point, when HD content becomes accessible, AMD will be releasing their HD-accelerated chipset.

A little bird told me so. It also said late Q3.

Keep us posted!

karsekongen
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Post by karsekongen » Sun May 20, 2007 10:35 am

I have decided to buy this:


Athlon 64 X2 3600+ 1.9 GHz

ASUS M2A-VM HDMI

Kingston ValueRAM 2 x 1 GB

I have one 100gb maxtor HD

Tv-tuner: dunno!

I'll measure the power consumption before deciding on a PSU.

I'm making a custom built HTPC case, i'll keep you posted on the progress:)

OT: Do any of you guys know how to build an external volume dial for winam?

Poodle
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Post by Poodle » Sun May 20, 2007 9:36 pm

Why not just get the Antec Fusion? And don't tell me "I wanna go 100% passive". In that case you would have to go HFX but then you don't get the dial.

karsekongen
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Post by karsekongen » Mon May 21, 2007 8:28 am

What is "the HFX"

I guess SFX is small form factor
HFX = high form factor???

I am considering the Fusion...but i could be nice with a DIY case.

karsekongen
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Post by karsekongen » Mon May 21, 2007 8:29 am

And i would like a bigger display ;)

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