Suitability of new P35 chipset motherboards for a Silent PC

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RBBOT
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Suitability of new P35 chipset motherboards for a Silent PC

Post by RBBOT » Thu May 17, 2007 11:23 am

Does anyone have any opinions on the suitability of the new P35 chipset motherboards for building a quiet system. The two examples I've seen reviewed so far have some very large heatpipe based cooling on the chipset, which could be a good or bad thing.

It vents some of the heat via the rear panel I/O panel and may help cool the chipset better with less airflow in the case. On the other hand, it may impeede airflow through the case and make the CPU heatsink run hotter.

Also, do you think a Scythe Ninga or Thermalright Ultra-120 would fit on these boards? The DS4 may have issues as it has the backplate cooler that the old DQ6 boards have, although I assume the Rev B push pin Ningas don't have an issue with this?

The reviews at legion hardware have some nice pictures taken at an angle to show how tall the heatsinks really are which you don't appreciate from the manufactuers top-down views.

Gigabyte P35-DS4: http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=643

Asus P5K Deluxe: http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=644

jazzforce
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Post by jazzforce » Thu May 17, 2007 12:11 pm

I'm interested in this myself. I know the Ultra 120 fits the DQ6 and I'm betting it fits the p5k dlx as well. So far they have been overclocking as well as p965, and have more memory bandwidth. Reports also say they run cooler than 965.

Also, both are supposedly quiet in terms of inductor squeal. The DQ6 has fancy sleeve mounted caps that prevent them from being bent over.

Check these threads at XS for tons of good photos and results -

Gigabyte P35-DQ6

Asus P5k-Deluxe

Add more if you find it, thanks.
[size=75]Mobo - P5K Deluxe
Cpu - e6600 l629f
Ram - 2GB GSKILL HZ
Video - EVGA 8800 GTS 320
PSU - Silverstone Zeus 750
Case - Lian Li PC60b
Coolers - CPU - Thermalright Ultra 120[/size]

Erssa
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Post by Erssa » Thu May 17, 2007 1:25 pm

http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2989

"We were really surprised at the gaming test results. We really did not expect the bandwidth improvement of P35 to have much impact on gaming results, but Far Cry showed a 2% to 5% improvement in performance just comparing P35 to P965 under the same conditions."
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merlin
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Re: Suitability of new P35 chipset motherboards for a Silent

Post by merlin » Thu May 17, 2007 1:51 pm

I think the mobo makers have gone way too crazy with their heatpipe structures. The low end P35 boards have basic heatsinks on the chipsets/vrms and it looks like that'll probably be a cheaper/better choice. I think this is going to be a great chipset for silence though, it looks like it's going to run cooler than the P965 and it'll be faster for sure. Not to mention official 1333FSB support.

Now the biggest question I have, does anyone have a p35 and have they checked what voltages can be set for the CPU? (undervolting to at least 1.1v please!) This is one of the most important features for reducing cpu temps/heat.
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jazzforce
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Post by jazzforce » Sat May 19, 2007 12:58 pm

I ordered a P5k-Deluxe.

I'm planning to remove the jazzy heat pipes and replace with the following -

Thermalright hr-05 on NB
Thermalright Ultra 120 on CPU
Swiftech low rise sink on SB
Swiftech mosfet sinks on mosfet

For me half the fun is modding these boards. When you pop off the stock coolers, it's amazing to see how bad the contact is out of the box.

I've got a few seringes of Shin Etsu ready to go. Not to mention a fresh e6600 from l629f batch. My P965-S Dark is going back because it's crap quality and squeals at load. F that noise.
[size=75]Mobo - P5K Deluxe
Cpu - e6600 l629f
Ram - 2GB GSKILL HZ
Video - EVGA 8800 GTS 320
PSU - Silverstone Zeus 750
Case - Lian Li PC60b
Coolers - CPU - Thermalright Ultra 120[/size]

Erssa
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Post by Erssa » Sat May 19, 2007 2:40 pm

jazzforce wrote:I'm planning to remove the jazzy heat pipes and replace with the following -

Thermalright hr-05 on NB
Thermalright Ultra 120 on CPU
Swiftech low rise sink on SB
Swiftech mosfet sinks on mosfet

For me half the fun is modding these boards. When you pop off the stock coolers, it's amazing to see how bad the contact is out of the box.
I hope you take temp measurements before you do this...
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Gojira-X
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Post by Gojira-X » Sat May 19, 2007 3:09 pm

I hope you go all the way and get Artoc Silver' Articlean.
I'd hate to spoil a new motherboard chipset by using crummy isopropyl alcohol. :roll:
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jazzforce
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Post by jazzforce » Sat May 19, 2007 3:33 pm

No worries, I have the ArctiClean. I'll be very careful to do stock tests and if all's well I'll take it up a notch. And if I feel sassy some night I'll lap the cpu and go for broke!
[size=75]Mobo - P5K Deluxe
Cpu - e6600 l629f
Ram - 2GB GSKILL HZ
Video - EVGA 8800 GTS 320
PSU - Silverstone Zeus 750
Case - Lian Li PC60b
Coolers - CPU - Thermalright Ultra 120[/size]

JimX
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Post by JimX » Sun May 20, 2007 1:20 am

I'd hate to spoil a new motherboard chipset by using crummy isopropyl alcohol.
Why, what's wrong with it? It makes my chips very shiny! No residue. :D

(I bought a liter two years ago, it'll last for a looooong time!)

jazzforce
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Post by jazzforce » Sun May 20, 2007 8:27 am

Honestly, I think alcohol is fine. I've been using 70% for decades in the recording studio on far more sensitive parts than metal sinks.

It's widely used to clean vinyl records too, which are way more fragile. None of mine have dried up yet.
[size=75]Mobo - P5K Deluxe
Cpu - e6600 l629f
Ram - 2GB GSKILL HZ
Video - EVGA 8800 GTS 320
PSU - Silverstone Zeus 750
Case - Lian Li PC60b
Coolers - CPU - Thermalright Ultra 120[/size]

redeyedrob
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Post by redeyedrob » Sun May 20, 2007 4:09 pm

Jazzforce, I'll be interested to see how you get on replacing the heatsinks on the P5K Deluxe, I got as far as unclipping them all but they were stuck down very well and I decided that I wasn't chancing destroying my new board just to apply some AS5...

The individual voltage regulator heatsink at the top of the board came off no probs and I swapped the terrible ~1.5mm thermal pad for some AS5. The other VRM heatsink has the same pad but it was linked too well with the rest of them for me to get it off.

Voltage options are as follows :

CPU : 1.1 -> 1.7 in 0.0125V steps
RAM : 1.8 -> 2.55 in 0.05V steps
FSB Term : 1.2 -> 1.5 in 0.1V steps
NB : 1.25 -> 1.7 in 0.15V steps
SB : 1.05 or 1.2V

jazzforce
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Post by jazzforce » Sun May 20, 2007 4:40 pm

Redeyedrob -

So they're stuck on with adhesive huh? I can see why you didn't want to risk taking up a chunk of the pcb. Did you try hitting it with a hair dryer at all?

Here's a thread on Hexus where this guy Clunk is doing what we're thinking.

http://forums.hexus.net/showthread.php?t=107489

After seeing this I think I'd use little ram sinks (masscool, swiftech or zalman) on the mosfets one by one. The HR-09 doesn't fit without a janky home made bracket.
[size=75]Mobo - P5K Deluxe
Cpu - e6600 l629f
Ram - 2GB GSKILL HZ
Video - EVGA 8800 GTS 320
PSU - Silverstone Zeus 750
Case - Lian Li PC60b
Coolers - CPU - Thermalright Ultra 120[/size]

redeyedrob
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Post by redeyedrob » Sun May 20, 2007 5:19 pm

I didn't try anything to be honest - just pulled at it as hard as I felt comfortable with and then decided to leave it. I was only going to replace the paste and given how hard they seemed to be stuck on I decided it couldn't be that bad a contact and even entertained the idea they had used one of the Alumina style adhesives.

From the looks of those photo's I backed out too soon - SB sink doesn't even look like it has any adhesive on it.

Will probably redo next time the board is out - got sent the wrong RAM and couldn't afford an Ultra 120 along so serious OCing will have to wait.

Took the E6600 up to 333 bus @ 9 multi with no voltage increase on the stock Intel cooler, runs fine but that fan is bloody loud when it kicks in full.

The northbridge block/pipe is certainly very hot to the touch, both VRM ones are mildly warm and I can't get near the southbridge one because my graphics card is in the way.

Good luck with the mod.

jazzforce
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Post by jazzforce » Sun May 20, 2007 5:28 pm

Thanks for the feedback Rob.

So how do you like the board overall? Stable? Aside from the stock cooler is it quiet?
[size=75]Mobo - P5K Deluxe
Cpu - e6600 l629f
Ram - 2GB GSKILL HZ
Video - EVGA 8800 GTS 320
PSU - Silverstone Zeus 750
Case - Lian Li PC60b
Coolers - CPU - Thermalright Ultra 120[/size]

redeyedrob
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Post by redeyedrob » Sun May 20, 2007 6:08 pm

Only really got it properly running today so not formed a proper opinion yet, had to endure a hellish day of screwing around because my antiquated XP CD barely reads in the drive..

Seems stable, and there's plenty of BIOS options to poke at.

2 things off the top of my head that are pissing me off :

1. Once it detects what is attached to the JMicron controller (PATA/ESATA) it proudly tells you and then demands a key is pressed in acknowledgment, I can't find a way to switch this off and it is irritating when trying to minimise boot times.

2. The Asus Q-Fan control is pretty poor. Ideally I'd like to see all MB connected fans to be set to gradient up in speed based on a link to any temp sensor you chose - aka the default fan control on newer ATI GPUs. However the CPU fan control just gives "Silent", "Optimal" or "Performance". The chassis fan does allow you to set a target CPU temp but the manual is not very clear on what is going on.

Layout-wise, as stated elsewhere, the SATA's are made difficult to access by my GPU (X1900) but it's no big deal. Both power connectors are nicely placed at the edge of the board making cable routing easy and there are 2 chassis fan connectors at the front end of the board and one at the back which is very sensible. PATA connector location is a bit of a bugger for optical drives but convenient for a short cable to a low mounted HD. RAM slots are just high enough that you can fairly easily insert / remove RAM without the GPU getting in the way.

Also the SATA, Firewire and yellow RAM sockets on the board are (presumably unintentionally) UV reactive which I though was a nice bonus!

EDIT : I'd not like to make any claims about it's silence until that typhoon of a stock cooler is out! Any noise would just be electrical hum and the stock cooler would mask that completely.

merlin
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Post by merlin » Mon May 21, 2007 9:29 am

redeyedrob wrote:Jazzforce, I'll be interested to see how you get on replacing the heatsinks on the P5K Deluxe, I got as far as unclipping them all but they were stuck down very well and I decided that I wasn't chancing destroying my new board just to apply some AS5...

The individual voltage regulator heatsink at the top of the board came off no probs and I swapped the terrible ~1.5mm thermal pad for some AS5. The other VRM heatsink has the same pad but it was linked too well with the rest of them for me to get it off.

Voltage options are as follows :

CPU : 1.1 -> 1.7 in 0.0125V steps
RAM : 1.8 -> 2.55 in 0.05V steps
FSB Term : 1.2 -> 1.5 in 0.1V steps
NB : 1.25 -> 1.7 in 0.15V steps
SB : 1.05 or 1.2V
I hope every mobo has full voltage controls. 1.1v is going to be a great way to save power/lower temps.
I saw on tomshardware that the p35 is the lowest power chipset out of everything now. That's great to see! Assuming decent prices, this looks like the chipset of choice now.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/05/21/ ... age19.html
Quiet Wuv Wizzie
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JimX
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Post by JimX » Mon May 21, 2007 9:35 am

It seems it's actually more power hungry than the 965. Today's Tech Report article. Conflicting results.

redeyedrob
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Post by redeyedrob » Mon May 21, 2007 11:36 am

I had expected a deluge of P35 articles today, but I guess the fact is has been out for ages has meant that hasn't happened.

Interesting comparisons here (AnandTech) and here (Legion Hardware) where AnandTech are claiming a 5% gaming performance boost over the P965 based on a 1 board, 1 benchmark test yet Legion are showing all 4 boards tested to be roughly the same (granted they only tested it against NVidia chipsets).

Would like to see a comparison including the P965 (which AnandTech compared against the P35) and both NVidia chipsets (650 and 680 which Legion compared against the P35)

Certainly nice to see a board go as low as 1.1V without modding.

nick705
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Post by nick705 » Mon May 21, 2007 12:15 pm

redeyedrob wrote:2. The Asus Q-Fan control is pretty poor. Ideally I'd like to see all MB connected fans to be set to gradient up in speed based on a link to any temp sensor you chose - aka the default fan control on newer ATI GPUs.
AKA.... Abit FanEq... ;)

cienislaw
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Post by cienislaw » Mon May 21, 2007 12:38 pm

abit ip35 pro should be on shelves at 18th july... a month... why abit is always behind?;-(

nick705
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Post by nick705 » Mon May 21, 2007 12:48 pm

cienislaw wrote:abit ip35 pro should be on shelves at 18th july... a month... why abit is always behind?;-(
I think its 18th June actually, but don't forget it seems to take Abit at least six months to release a properly functioning BIOS - they've only just sorted out the QuadGT (a couple of weeks before Bearlake launched)... :roll:

redeyedrob
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Post by redeyedrob » Mon May 21, 2007 12:55 pm

nick705 wrote:
redeyedrob wrote:2. The Asus Q-Fan control is pretty poor. Ideally I'd like to see all MB connected fans to be set to gradient up in speed based on a link to any temp sensor you chose - aka the default fan control on newer ATI GPUs.
AKA.... Abit FanEq... ;)
Ah. So i've bought a lemon.. ;)

Will be interesting so see what the Q-Fan control is actually doing, the CPU fan is jumping from acceptable to hairdryer under load but nowhere in between. I've never had a PWM CPU fan before so I don't know if this is the PWM or the Q-Fan trying to keep the CPU temp at my target level.

Anyone else with experience of Q-Fan?

Assuming I can get hold of the TR 120-Extreme by the weekend I'll have a serious play with it then and work things out - I'll be sad to have to revive my fan controller, expected it to be redundant with this MB.

cienislaw
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Post by cienislaw » Mon May 21, 2007 1:22 pm

nick705 wrote:I think its 18th June actually, but don't forget it seems to take Abit at least six months to release a properly functioning BIOS - they've only just sorted out the QuadGT (a couple of weeks before Bearlake launched)... :roll:
you are right;-) but considering lag they have with quadgt, i wont be suprised if it will be july. yup, quadgt is now getting 99% what it should have at launch, so im thinking maybe buying now quadgt isnt so bad idea - i will get nice, working piece of hardware with known flaws, with mature bios, p965 is still quite rocking chipset, quadgt has nice onboard features ect. and i wont have to wait a month (memory, solo and other stuff beside e4300 and mobo i already bought) to get my thing up and running. i hate such puzzles...

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Not so good news

Post by merlin » Mon May 21, 2007 1:54 pm

Well anandtech is showing the p35 has higher idle and load wattage than the p965, that's very disappointing. It's very strange some sites are showing higher numbers and some are showing lower, but I'm inclined to believe the anandtech values.
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johno
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Post by johno » Mon May 21, 2007 7:44 pm

I looked at the anandtech review... and they are all over 200W! Are they PCs or room heaters they were running? I guess a lot of that power consumption must be going to the graphics card.

dragmor
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Post by dragmor » Mon May 21, 2007 9:42 pm

JimX wrote:It seems it's actually more power hungry than the 965. Today's Tech Report article. Conflicting results.
I trust TR results, but there is some strange things happening with this chipset. The 965 chipsets get hot when running 1333 FSB speeds, but I didn’t think there was this much difference.

Both sets of ram are rated at 1.5v, its the same motherboard, so the difference in wattage has to be mostly from the chipset.

Changing the FSB from 1066 to 1333
IDLE: 135.8 vs 154.0 (18.2w)
LOAD: 199.1 vs 217.0 (17.9w)

RBBOT
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Post by RBBOT » Tue May 22, 2007 2:15 am

has anyone seen a review that looks at the raid performance? The 965 was a big improvement over the 975 - I'm wondering if the ICHR9 southbridge gives any further performance gains.

continuum
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Post by continuum » Tue May 22, 2007 10:49 am

http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2007q ... dex.x?pg=1

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/sh ... spx?i=2993

Anandtech's got not one, but THREE articles on the P35 out now.

I think I'll be skipping P35 and waiting for X38 depending on the improvements and and power consumption.

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Post by jojo4u » Tue May 22, 2007 11:18 am

What a sad trend about the power consumption on intel boards. Although the THG test looks promising when using DDR2. But nevertheless I'd recommend a AMD system for all but gamers/workstations.

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Post by jojo4u » Tue May 22, 2007 11:55 am

Computerbase.de has a test with DDR2-800, the P35 looses. But they compare the Asus P5K Deluxe WiFi Edition versus Asus P5B-E Plus.

Blue = idle, text = SpeedStep light blue = load, grey = BIOS, text
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/hard ... omaufnahme

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