Suitability of new P35 chipset motherboards for a Silent PC

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merlin
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Post by merlin » Tue May 22, 2007 1:20 pm

continuum wrote:http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2007q ... dex.x?pg=1

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/sh ... spx?i=2993

Anandtech's got not one, but THREE articles on the P35 out now.

I think I'll be skipping P35 and waiting for X38 depending on the improvements and and power consumption.
I really don't understand why so many people/review sites are recommending looking at the X38, it's just another overclocker chipset that is almost guaranteed to have higher power consumption with very little benefit. Aka the 680i and 975x, both chipsets I would never touch. Nobody currently needs PCIe 2.0 at all.
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Main: I5-3570K at 3.7ghz, 16GB DDR-1600@1.35v, Asrock Z77 Extreme6, Corsair 330R, Seasonic 760XP2, Sapphire Radeon 7950| Secondary/Lan: Core i3-2100, 4GB, Msi H67MA-E35, Radeon 6790, Sugo SG02| HTPC: Core i3-2100, 4GB, AsRock H67M-ITX/HT, Antec ISK300-65| NAS: Core I3-2100, 8GB, Antec TP-550, Lian Li PC-Q08B, 4X2TB WD Green| Lappy: Latitude D620 Core 2 T7600, Quadro NVS 110M

jazzforce
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Post by jazzforce » Tue May 22, 2007 1:51 pm

P35 is 90nm.

When comparing the power consumption results for p35, understand that some of those articles are referring to P35/DDR3 power consumption. Power consumption for DDR2 on P35 is comparable to 965. Not an improvement but fine.

Edit - hmm, it seems the results in different reviews are varied. Tom's is reporting the opposite -

Anandtech -
http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdo ... =2993&p=16

Tom's -
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/05/21/ ... age19.html

Need to look at how each tested...
[size=75]Mobo - P5K Deluxe
Cpu - e6600 l629f
Ram - 2GB GSKILL HZ
Video - EVGA 8800 GTS 320
PSU - Silverstone Zeus 750
Case - Lian Li PC60b
Coolers - CPU - Thermalright Ultra 120[/size]

jazzforce
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Post by jazzforce » Tue May 22, 2007 2:21 pm

The p35 was rumored to be a cooler 65nm chipset. Maybe x38 will be 65nm.
[size=75]Mobo - P5K Deluxe
Cpu - e6600 l629f
Ram - 2GB GSKILL HZ
Video - EVGA 8800 GTS 320
PSU - Silverstone Zeus 750
Case - Lian Li PC60b
Coolers - CPU - Thermalright Ultra 120[/size]

continuum
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Post by continuum » Tue May 22, 2007 6:02 pm

merlin wrote:I really don't understand why so many people/review sites are recommending looking at the X38, it's just another overclocker chipset that is almost guaranteed to have higher power consumption with very little benefit. Aka the 680i and 975x, both chipsets I would never touch. Nobody currently needs PCIe 2.0 at all.
If it runs cooler, I'm all for it. I'm not specific on the jump to it, but given what I'm seeing with P35, I'm willing to sit on my current P965 board for a while longer...

jazzforce
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Post by jazzforce » Tue May 22, 2007 9:03 pm

I can't wait to get my hands on the P5K DLX

This is the Striker with heatpipes removed and replaced. Similar to what I'd like to try with the P5K.

Image
[size=75]Mobo - P5K Deluxe
Cpu - e6600 l629f
Ram - 2GB GSKILL HZ
Video - EVGA 8800 GTS 320
PSU - Silverstone Zeus 750
Case - Lian Li PC60b
Coolers - CPU - Thermalright Ultra 120[/size]

HueyCobra
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P35 fab process & power consumption (from The Tech Repor

Post by HueyCobra » Wed May 23, 2007 3:58 am

From The Tech Report:
The Tech Report wrote:Perhaps the most surprising attribute of the ICH9R is the fact that the chip's being fabbed using relatively pedestrian 130nm process technology. With Intel apparently mastering 65nm production for its Core 2 line and already pushing 45nm for Penryn, we'd expected a process shrink for newer chipsets. The P35 north bridge is built on a 90nm process, at least.
Regarding power consumption:
The Tech Report wrote:Now that's unexpected. Despite lower DIMM operating voltages, the P35's DDR3 configurations consume more power at idle and under load than when the chipset is running DDR2 memory. The power consumption associated with running a faster memory bus may be offsetting the lower per-DIMM voltage some. However, even with DDR2 memory, our P35 system consumes more power than the nForce 680i SLI reference board and our P965 and 975X systems.

WR304
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Post by WR304 » Wed May 23, 2007 5:20 am

One advantage of the Asus P5K motherboard is that the CPU socket is placed further to the left and higher up than with a motherboard such as the P5W DH Deluxe.

A Scythe Ninja fits easily onto the motherboard also.

In a typical case such as an Antec Solo or P180 it means the heatsink is right next to the exhaust fans giving better performance. :)

The downside of the Asus P5K (non deluxe) is that the legacy IDE port is badly placed and not very useful. If anyone is thinking of getting this motherboard make sure you get a SATA optical drive at the same time! :(

jazzforce
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Re: P35 fab process & power consumption (from The Tech R

Post by jazzforce » Wed May 23, 2007 9:40 am

HueyCobra wrote:From The Tech Report:
The Tech Report wrote:Now that's unexpected. Despite lower DIMM operating voltages, the P35's DDR3 configurations consume more power at idle and under load than when the chipset is running DDR2 memory. The power consumption associated with running a faster memory bus may be offsetting the lower per-DIMM voltage some. However, even with DDR2 memory, our P35 system consumes more power than the nForce 680i SLI reference board and our P965 and 975X systems.
Well that's interesting. I guess we have to wait and see what the data says after all of these reviewers take p35 for a spin. I still see a mix of results out there.

My P5K-Deluxe will be here any day. I'm tempted to do a power consumption comparison with one of my 965 boards. I just hope it doesn't squeal like the 965's do.
[size=75]Mobo - P5K Deluxe
Cpu - e6600 l629f
Ram - 2GB GSKILL HZ
Video - EVGA 8800 GTS 320
PSU - Silverstone Zeus 750
Case - Lian Li PC60b
Coolers - CPU - Thermalright Ultra 120[/size]

jazzforce
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Post by jazzforce » Thu May 24, 2007 8:20 am

So word is that the P5K out now is going to be replaced with a revision that has a 65nm NB.

Cheeky bastids better replace my board if that happens.
[size=75]Mobo - P5K Deluxe
Cpu - e6600 l629f
Ram - 2GB GSKILL HZ
Video - EVGA 8800 GTS 320
PSU - Silverstone Zeus 750
Case - Lian Li PC60b
Coolers - CPU - Thermalright Ultra 120[/size]

HueyCobra
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Re: P35 fab process & power consumption (from The Tech R

Post by HueyCobra » Fri May 25, 2007 7:49 pm

jazzforce wrote:Well that's interesting. I guess we have to wait and see what the data says after all of these reviewers take p35 for a spin. I still see a mix of results out there.
Indeed. bit-tech's review of the P5K and P5K3 has the DDR3 version a negligible 3W lower.
jazzforce wrote:My P5K-Deluxe will be here any day. I'm tempted to do a power consumption comparison with one of my 965 boards. I just hope it doesn't squeal like the 965's do.
Good luck with the new board. Any impressions of its power consumption would be appreciated :)

pputer
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Post by pputer » Sun May 27, 2007 6:27 pm

None of the boards can take either ddr2 or ddr3? I am confused even though I've read several reviews. So, if you go with the p35 chipset, you have to go with one which takes ddr2 OR a board that takes ddr3 memory? There is only support for one of the types?

I'm interested in a P35 board since the power consumption seems to be lower and it has support for the newer 45nm processors.

Edit: I can answer part of my question as I just googled. I discovered the Gigabyte GA-P35C-DS3R motherboard can take either of ddr2 or ddr3 so that is the type of board I would like. Does Asus have an equivalent board? The Gigabyte looks good but I am not sure how it compares.

I appreciate any more info and advice. TYIA.

puscifer
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Post by puscifer » Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:58 am

Just got a DS4 myself and its not bad. CPU volts go way down (further than 1.1). I've got a E2140 doing 2.66Ghz with 1.2 (1.15~.17 on mb sensor) for everyday use.

What i'm not at all happy with is the onboard sound, its sending out all kinds of interference noise whenever i move the mouse or open a window, plus its got some high pitch wine that my old alc650 didn't.
Still haven't found anything to control fan speed, as its the case with new chips. Hope someone gets around to it soon. And something stable to oc on windows.

jojo4u
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Post by jojo4u » Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:14 am

The german printed magazine C't reports that a G33 equipped mainboard needs quite a bit less power than a 965G equipped board from the same manufacturer. Don't have the figures at hand. At idle, the G33 combination was still 20 W away from an Athlon X2 EE with AMD 690G, though.

RBBOT
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Post by RBBOT » Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:06 pm

I discovered the Gigabyte GA-P35C-DS3R motherboard can take either of ddr2 or ddr3 so that is the type of board I would like.
It can, and although it has the full compliment of 4 DDR-2 slots, it only has 2 DDR-3 slots limiting your maximum memory if you do upgrade to DDR3.

Pierce
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Post by Pierce » Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:40 pm

I saw some figures which said that the G33 needs 14,5W and a G965 uses 28W but i don't know where it was.
Why didn't i check the power consumption of my pc before swichting to G33 :cry:
The G33 is a nice chipset no matter how big the difference is since it can undervolt way better than the g965 i owned previously to it.
The only thing i dislike right now is that speedfan seems to have problems with some parts since it says that one part has -2degree celsius and that my cpu fan speed is 675000rpm :roll:
[size=84]BenQ FP241W
NSK2400 | Gigabyte G33M DS2R :D | E4400 @ -0,2V @ Mini Ninja:D| Gigabyte 8600GTS | 2,5" 80GB HDD | 2GB DDR2 800 |[/size]

pputer
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Post by pputer » Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:29 pm

RBBOT wrote: It can, and although it has the full compliment of 4 DDR-2 slots, it only has 2 DDR-3 slots limiting your maximum memory if you do upgrade to DDR3.
Excellent point although I should have considered that! :wink:

I am now looking at buying a cheaper board even if it is P965. Is a P35 chipset still a decent option? The PK5 Deluxe, P5K and some of the Gigabyte P35 chipset boards seem to be going down in price lately. They are around the same price or just a little more than the P965 boards. I want the computer for processing/editing/encoding video. I understand that the cpu and video cards what I need to particularly look at. Therefore, I am satisfied with DDR2 memory and just wonder if the P965 stays cooler than the P35 chipset boards. I'm still unsure about that part.

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Post by josephclemente » Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:17 pm

I've seen a few articles about the chipsets, but I'm not sure exactly about the difference between the G33 and P35... I know the G33 has video and lower temperature requirements - but I wonder what it may be missing compared to P35?
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Post by line » Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:00 pm

puscifer wrote:Just got a DS4 myself and its not bad. CPU volts go way down (further than 1.1). I've got a E2140 doing 2.66Ghz with 1.2 (1.15~.17 on mb sensor) for everyday use.
Have you tried undervolting at stock speed? I'd like to know how low you can go with the Pentium E.
puscifer wrote:What i'm not at all happy with is the onboard sound, its sending out all kinds of interference noise whenever i move the mouse or open a window, plus its got some high pitch wine that my old alc650 didn't.
Sorry to hear that. Does it happen at stock speed too? FWIW, Gary Key of AnandTech did not seem to encounter a problem with the onboard audio on Gigabyte's GA-P35T-DQ6, which belongs to the same series. He wrote: "we still consider the ADI 1988B HD codec to be superior to the Realtek ALC-889A in gaming, though under Vista they seem to be equals now in preliminary testing."

jazzforce
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Post by jazzforce » Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:27 pm

I just built up my p5k-dlx with all new parts and it fired up like a breeze. Stock chipset cooling is cool to the touch at stock and I've got an Ultra 120 with no fan on the cpu. Everything but the 8800gts is whisper quiet. The 8800gts is hot and blows like a whale but I have to get my Oblivion on so... If you have a basic card it'll be mad quiet.

I'm going to dive into the bios later to see how low we can go. Once I know that I'll see what kind of overclock I can get with a fan on the 120. I like a little of both worlds, gaming and power saving quiet time. Honestly though, the p5k box is for heavy action and it won't even get turned on unless it's time to game. I have 2 Asus A7j laptops for 90% of my work which are virtually silent.
[size=75]Mobo - P5K Deluxe
Cpu - e6600 l629f
Ram - 2GB GSKILL HZ
Video - EVGA 8800 GTS 320
PSU - Silverstone Zeus 750
Case - Lian Li PC60b
Coolers - CPU - Thermalright Ultra 120[/size]

merlin
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Post by merlin » Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:08 pm

jazzforce wrote:So word is that the P5K out now is going to be replaced with a revision that has a 65nm NB.

Cheeky bastids better replace my board if that happens.
Can you provide a source on this news? This is rather major in terms of nb power.
Quiet Wuv Wizzie
Main: I5-3570K at 3.7ghz, 16GB DDR-1600@1.35v, Asrock Z77 Extreme6, Corsair 330R, Seasonic 760XP2, Sapphire Radeon 7950| Secondary/Lan: Core i3-2100, 4GB, Msi H67MA-E35, Radeon 6790, Sugo SG02| HTPC: Core i3-2100, 4GB, AsRock H67M-ITX/HT, Antec ISK300-65| NAS: Core I3-2100, 8GB, Antec TP-550, Lian Li PC-Q08B, 4X2TB WD Green| Lappy: Latitude D620 Core 2 T7600, Quadro NVS 110M

merlin
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Post by merlin » Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:14 pm

pputer wrote:None of the boards can take either ddr2 or ddr3? I am confused even though I've read several reviews. So, if you go with the p35 chipset, you have to go with one which takes ddr2 OR a board that takes ddr3 memory? There is only support for one of the types?

I'm interested in a P35 board since the power consumption seems to be lower and it has support for the newer 45nm processors.

Edit: I can answer part of my question as I just googled. I discovered the Gigabyte GA-P35C-DS3R motherboard can take either of ddr2 or ddr3 so that is the type of board I would like. Does Asus have an equivalent board? The Gigabyte looks good but I am not sure how it compares.

I appreciate any more info and advice. TYIA.
In my opinion it's rather pointless to even look at DDR3...or even slots for it. It'll be a long time before DDR3 is noticeably faster than DDR2 at all. The best choice is to get some faster DDR2 with a mobo full of DDR2 slots. If you're truly wanting a combo board with 2 or 3 of DDR2 and DDR3 slots, gigabyte seems first to the market and they should be fine. Asus has not announced any combo boards yet.
Quiet Wuv Wizzie
Main: I5-3570K at 3.7ghz, 16GB DDR-1600@1.35v, Asrock Z77 Extreme6, Corsair 330R, Seasonic 760XP2, Sapphire Radeon 7950| Secondary/Lan: Core i3-2100, 4GB, Msi H67MA-E35, Radeon 6790, Sugo SG02| HTPC: Core i3-2100, 4GB, AsRock H67M-ITX/HT, Antec ISK300-65| NAS: Core I3-2100, 8GB, Antec TP-550, Lian Li PC-Q08B, 4X2TB WD Green| Lappy: Latitude D620 Core 2 T7600, Quadro NVS 110M

pputer
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Post by pputer » Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:49 pm

merlin wrote: In my opinion it's rather pointless to even look at DDR3...or even slots for it. It'll be a long time before DDR3 is noticeably faster than DDR2 at all. The best choice is to get some faster DDR2 with a mobo full of DDR2 slots. If you're truly wanting a combo board with 2 or 3 of DDR2 and DDR3 slots, gigabyte seems first to the market and they should be fine. Asus has not announced any combo boards yet.
Your opinion is well taken. Good points. Your point made me reconsider and now I'm thinking of the Asus PK5 Deluxe board. I just wish it was $50 cheaper. The P5B Deluxe is already $50 cheaper but the P5K Dlx board allows an upgrade of the 45nm Cpu. Hmmmm....

I need to research what video board to get. I think either Asus mb will be good for what I want to do (video processing/transcoding/editing etc.). I can also wait for the cpu discount in July, too.

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Post by thejamppa » Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:26 am

jazzforce wrote:Honestly, I think alcohol is fine. I've been using 70% for decades in the recording studio on far more sensitive parts than metal sinks.

It's widely used to clean vinyl records too, which are way more fragile. None of mine have dried up yet.
Agreed. Since Isopropyl is cheaper, than articlean I use is propyl to clean HSF and CPU then wait that all is dried and then I clean it 2nd time with ArtiClean. I save a lot ArtiClean this way and I haven't had any complains in my temperatures after Mobo change.
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merlin
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Post by merlin » Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:01 am

pputer wrote:
merlin wrote: In my opinion it's rather pointless to even look at DDR3...or even slots for it. It'll be a long time before DDR3 is noticeably faster than DDR2 at all. The best choice is to get some faster DDR2 with a mobo full of DDR2 slots. If you're truly wanting a combo board with 2 or 3 of DDR2 and DDR3 slots, gigabyte seems first to the market and they should be fine. Asus has not announced any combo boards yet.
Your opinion is well taken. Good points. Your point made me reconsider and now I'm thinking of the Asus PK5 Deluxe board. I just wish it was $50 cheaper. The P5B Deluxe is already $50 cheaper but the P5K Dlx board allows an upgrade of the 45nm Cpu. Hmmmm....

I need to research what video board to get. I think either Asus mb will be good for what I want to do (video processing/transcoding/editing etc.). I can also wait for the cpu discount in July, too.
I'm leaning toward the Gigabyte P35 myself since it has all the features I want, a decent price and good capacitors. It seems most P35 boards can go down to 1.1v or .85v, but from what I've seen in reviews, MSI boards don't have bios undervolting settings.
Quiet Wuv Wizzie
Main: I5-3570K at 3.7ghz, 16GB DDR-1600@1.35v, Asrock Z77 Extreme6, Corsair 330R, Seasonic 760XP2, Sapphire Radeon 7950| Secondary/Lan: Core i3-2100, 4GB, Msi H67MA-E35, Radeon 6790, Sugo SG02| HTPC: Core i3-2100, 4GB, AsRock H67M-ITX/HT, Antec ISK300-65| NAS: Core I3-2100, 8GB, Antec TP-550, Lian Li PC-Q08B, 4X2TB WD Green| Lappy: Latitude D620 Core 2 T7600, Quadro NVS 110M

jazzforce
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Post by jazzforce » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:54 pm

Here's my stock temps and voltage and such after Orthos stress test for around 50 minutes. I figured I'd only post stock here because it's all relative to cooling, chip, environment etc..

P5k-Deluxe / e6600 / 2gb GSkill HZ 800mhz / Evga 8800gts / Silverstone 750 Zeus

Cooling -
CPU - TR Ultra 120 w/ Scythe S-Flex 1600
Case - Lian Li PC-60 w/4 80 mm fans

Stock Settings at full load test with temps -

Screen Shot

PS - on board sound is awesome so far on this mb.
[size=75]Mobo - P5K Deluxe
Cpu - e6600 l629f
Ram - 2GB GSKILL HZ
Video - EVGA 8800 GTS 320
PSU - Silverstone Zeus 750
Case - Lian Li PC60b
Coolers - CPU - Thermalright Ultra 120[/size]

jazzforce
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Post by jazzforce » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:38 pm

Also, no squealing coils on this board under load or idle. This is huge to me considering I just gave up on the DFI 965-s because of it's whine.
[size=75]Mobo - P5K Deluxe
Cpu - e6600 l629f
Ram - 2GB GSKILL HZ
Video - EVGA 8800 GTS 320
PSU - Silverstone Zeus 750
Case - Lian Li PC60b
Coolers - CPU - Thermalright Ultra 120[/size]

jazzforce
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Post by jazzforce » Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:27 pm

For all of you who are interested in how OC effects temps here's some shots at 333x9 Idle and Orthos load. I have been using these settings and playing Oblivion, using photoshop etc. and it only raises up a hair over the temps in the idle shot. So far I love this board. Stable, cool, quiet and fast.


LOAD

IDLE
[size=75]Mobo - P5K Deluxe
Cpu - e6600 l629f
Ram - 2GB GSKILL HZ
Video - EVGA 8800 GTS 320
PSU - Silverstone Zeus 750
Case - Lian Li PC60b
Coolers - CPU - Thermalright Ultra 120[/size]

puscifer
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Post by puscifer » Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:13 pm

line wrote:Sorry to hear that. Does it happen at stock speed too?
Happens whenever theres activity on hdds, dvdr and morphs into humming when i play some games although that might be my hi-fi amp. Tried it with headphones too, don't worry :]. It's a kind of scratching alot of people report from when there's activity and I think it's my corsair hx520 that doesnt like the DS4 or vice-versa. The problem would be rma' ing just cuz of this, if it will work with other psu/config. Well, the 2 weeks are gone now so I'm going to wait for the sammy F1 and see if it was my diamond max9 and see. :/

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Post by NeilBlanchard » Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:34 pm

Hello,

Here's a translated page:

http://tinyurl.com/328v8u

I'm confused though: which is the P35 mobo?
Sincerely, Neil
http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/

jojo4u
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Post by jojo4u » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:37 am

I'd like to shed some light into the question how much power the G33 needs. It's contenders are the nvidia single-chip chipsets and an AMD solution with 690G. Do you know any articles?

I can present two figures by the german printed magazine C't. They contradict each other, though. I already e-mailed the author.

1st test
One system equipped with a G33 Gigabyte mainboard and a C2D 6300 needs 64 W, which is 11-15 W less from the wall compared to a G965 from Intel.
An Athlon 64 X2 EE with a 690G needs 20 W less then the G33 solution.

2nd test

MSI K9AGM2-FIH (AMD 690G) with Athlon 64 BE-2350/4000/5200+
Gigabyte GA-G33-D3R (Intel G33) with E6300/E4300/E2160

whole system power consumption at idle
AMD: 53/53/54 W
Intel: 65/56/53 W

at load:
AMD: 92/109/135
Intel: 94/92/87

I can't draw a conclusion here, since the AMD power consumption of 53 W seems a bit on the high side from my experiences. Nevertheless, Intel has improved dramatically.

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