New 45W AM2 BE-2350 availability

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frank2003
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New 45W AM2 BE-2350 availability

Post by frank2003 » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:49 pm

For those with non-undervoltable mobos, the new BE-2350 (2.1ghz) is here. This site has 8 available, grab one before they disappear:

http://www.computerhq.com/AMD_ATHLON_X2 ... 25721.html

Strange it's not listed in the usual outlets (newegg.com, ZZF, etc).

Aris
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Post by Aris » Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:29 pm

Out of Stock

Less than 2 hours from when you posted about it.

ronrem
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Post by ronrem » Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:54 pm

At that price I'd tend to think in terms of a Brisbane 4000 undervolted for 40 bucks less. Spend some of the diff to get the best/quiet/cool solutions for the Heatsink and mobo.

Once these chips are on the shelf in quantity-the price will drop to where the mild edge they have on a regular Brisbane is worth paying for. I'm seeing some Mobos from Asus,Abit,Gigabyte that seem to have a lot of the Crystal CPUID powers built in....can respond to demand with dynamic overclock or under clock/volt. The 3600 Brisbane can really shine in that context as it's able to undervolt and act like the BE-2300 or oc and act like a Brisbane 4800.

If the BE 2300/2350 can exceed that range---I'd pay an extra chunk of my beer budget.....but not $60 extra. So far there's not much info on how far you can undervolt or overclock a BE chip

efcoins2
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Post by efcoins2 » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:58 am

"I'm seeing some Mobos from Asus .. that seem to have a lot of the Crystal CPUID powers built in"

I have not noticed that, could you give an example, do any of
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productli ... &subid=806
have it

frank2003
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Post by frank2003 » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:37 am

If you look at this:

http://products.amd.com/us-en/desktop/S ... 2350IAA5DD

You can see the only major difference between the 2.1ghz 4000+ and the BE-2350 is the stock voltage. So, if I can undervolt the 4000+ to 1.25V @ 2.1ghz would it be fair to say I can achieve the same power consumption profile as the BE-2350? And if I can go below that, beat it at its stock voltage?

Of course, you can also play the same undervolting game with the BE-2350. The question is how well it will do with undervolting and underclocking.

frank2003
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Post by frank2003 » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:52 am

The site I gave in my original post is again listing the CPU as available in volume (143 units). However, before you jump in and order from them, I urge you to first check them out in resellerratings.com.

As I said in my OP, I find it odd that the big name etailers don't have it listed, yet this never-heard of site had them in stock.

frank2003
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Post by frank2003 » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:19 am

Looks like today's the official "Release" date for this processor:

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_geto ... ch=be-2350

You can expect the big boys to start carrying them at lower price points in the next couple of days.

Due to my impatience I purchased the 65W Brisbane 4000+ two weeks ago and now I'm stuck with it :-(.

If you bought one of these please report back its under/overclockability. Most importantly, can it run passively?

Mariner
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Post by Mariner » Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:06 am

frank2003 wrote:Due to my impatience I purchased the 65W Brisbane 4000+ two weeks ago and now I'm stuck with it :-(.
I really wouldn't worry too much.

Personally, I'd guess the BE-2350 uses practically the same silicon as your 4000+ but just coming with a lower stock voltage to produce the lower TDP.

If you're already undervolting your 4000+ then the difference between the two chips should be negligible. I can't say I've heard any reports of standard Brisbanes being unable to undervolt to a good degree so I really don't think you've lost out.

frank2003
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Post by frank2003 » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:33 pm

Newegg.com has it listed at $95.00:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... pk=be-2350

That's a whopping $0.50 more than what I paid for the 4000+ :-). I should have waited. Arrgh...

The BE-2350 may be the same as the 4000+ in most respects, but a lower stock voltage could be significatnt for a mobo that does not have any undervolting capabilities.

ronrem
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Post by ronrem » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:25 pm

efcoins2 wrote:"I'm seeing some Mobos from Asus .. that seem to have a lot of the Crystal CPUID powers built in"

I have not noticed that, could you give an example, do any of
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productli ... &subid=806
have it
It seem most of ASUS M2N boards have AI NOS...which is an "on demand" overclocking...for example it would run stock when browsing the web,and auto OC for gaming or Photoshop.
AI Gear lets you set voltages + clock in the OS
AI Nap lets you semi hibernate-yet run apps,download at minimum power.

How configurable is all this? how well does it work? Hard to say-but ASUS sold a lot of boards with this stuff aboard.

ABIT has U Guru....Quick tuning in OS....a lot like AI GEAR,manually choosing clock + voltage. I get the impression that you can have profiles and pick a profile,so you could have it run with low power silent settings-or whatever max overclock you can set up-and something between

OC Guru Autodrive lets you assign different settings for specific apps.

Gigabyte has " Easy Tune" sttings from in the OS. Their site has few details.

How nice do these utilities play with Cool + Quiet? If I'm doing something in Soundforge and it cranks up,will C+Q still throttle down between tasks?

efcoins2
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Post by efcoins2 » Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:33 am

Auto OVERclocking has been around a while, but this thread is about UNDERclocking/volting.

ronrem
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Post by ronrem » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:40 am

I got the impression-though with too few details-that the ASUS utilities allow profiles that range pretty far both ways. Unfortunately- there's not enough detail on the site to fully confirm anything.

It would seem that whatever access lets you have a quick overclock profile could easily also do undervolt/underclock

They also do not say whether using these utilities would pre-empt or disable Cool + Quiet or Crystal CPU.

I'm thinking it would be good to hear details from someone with one of the Asus or Abit boards who's pushed the possibilities. If you figure the BE's have the potential range of a 3600 Brisbane-and maybe more....The 3600 can take a pretty nice underclock/undervolt....also overclocks very well.
If a Mobo/Utilities combo makes it a snap to have BOTH options-with the relevant fan control,even have it semi-automatic.....how sweet is that?

efcoins2
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Post by efcoins2 » Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:06 am

The largest undervolt that is possible on my Asus board is 0.125V, I never see minimum voltages mentioned on MB specs, only max voltages

DyJohnnY
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Post by DyJohnnY » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:57 pm

frank2003 wrote:If you look at this:

http://products.amd.com/us-en/desktop/S ... 2350IAA5DD

You can see the only major difference between the 2.1ghz 4000+ and the BE-2350 is the stock voltage. So, if I can undervolt the 4000+ to 1.25V @ 2.1ghz would it be fair to say I can achieve the same power consumption profile as the BE-2350? And if I can go below that, beat it at its stock voltage?

Of course, you can also play the same undervolting game with the BE-2350. The question is how well it will do with undervolting and underclocking.
i also read the same idea, that the BE's are just undervolted brisbanes, and there may not be that much umph about them, check anandtech and tomshardware, they did a review comparing power consumption. A x2 3800 czbox [EE series] seems to better them all, but that is 35W tdp :)
[size=75]TualatinCel. 1.1Ghz@112*11 w polished Titan S A,H spd@[b]1700RPM's[/b])
Gf2MX -Passive
WD800JB [b]Whiny but suspended[/b]
Temps: [b]CPU@37; Case@35[/b]
to do: [b]PSU fan ctrl, better case airflow repos HDD[/b][/size]

Mariner
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Post by Mariner » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:49 am

DyJohnnY wrote:i also read the same idea, that the BE's are just undervolted brisbanes, and there may not be that much umph about them, check anandtech and tomshardware, they did a review comparing power consumption. A x2 3800 czbox [EE series] seems to better them all, but that is 35W tdp :)
Bear in mind that the EE series has a lower stock voltage so you're effectively comparing one undervolted chip to another which is not undervolted.

Undervolt a BE to similar levels to the EE and it will have much lower power consumption. (BE voltage is 1.25V compared to 1.025V for the EE).

halcyon
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Post by halcyon » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:32 am

Image

Image

jackylman
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Post by jackylman » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:59 am

^^ I'm pretty sure techreport.com wouldn't be too happy about you using their graphs without any sort of citation. :roll:

Furthermore, the idle power graph doesn't truly reflect how well each chip can undervolt; it shows how each chip performs at stock voltage. We SPCR members have our own ideas about sticking to the manufacturer's limit :wink:

prod
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Post by prod » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:10 am

Well since the BE-23xx has been tested at the factory to run at 1.25, I would think they allow some kind of safety margin. The regular 3600 hasnt been tested that low, so it may not make it as far down. Therefore, as with any over/under clocking, its up to us to find how far each will go :)
That said, I am looking for a low power cpu/mobo combo for myself, and was pretty set on a 690G for the HTPC features. The best I have found for local sale are the Asus M2A-VM HDMI or the Gigabyte GA-MA69GM-S2H. However I dont know the undervolting/overclocking options for either, will do some digging.

jaganath
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Post by jaganath » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:40 am

since the BE-23xx has been tested at the factory to run at 1.25, I would think they allow some kind of safety margin. The regular 3600 hasnt been tested that low, so it may not make it as far down. Therefore, as with any over/under clocking, its up to us to find how far each will go
I have several 3600's, all run at stock on <1.1V. also see undervolting:how low can you go?

frank2003
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Post by frank2003 » Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:44 am

prod wrote:I am looking for a low power cpu/mobo combo for myself, and was pretty set on a 690G for the HTPC features.
You may also want to consider the Biostar TA690G-AM2 which I have. It supports undervolting and underclocking in BIOS (you'd need a later version of the BIOS; I am running 605). I'm pairing it with Brisbane 4000+ (stock 2.1ghz @ 1.35v; underclocked to 1.0ghz @ 0.9V in BIOS). I run CrystalCPUID with 2 states (.9v @ 1.0ghz, .9v @ 1.6ghz). My HTPC draws 55W power at idle, 72W under full load. It plays 1080i HDTV recordings without breaking a sweat, and can play most mpeg4/VC-1 1080p without problem using VLC. With PowerDVD it can play even more demanding 20-30mbps 1080p video files. Finally I connect the HTPC to an HDTV @ 1080p using the on-board HDMI output. The best thing is that the HDMI cable also carries audio so there's no need to run another audio cable.

Palindroman
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Post by Palindroman » Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:42 am

I have tested and undervolted the X2 BE-2350 today (haven't tested it thoroughly, mind you). Here's what it does compared to the Athlon X2 3600+:

AMD Athlon X2 3600+ - Brisbane (AM2) stock - 1.35V

Minimum: 0.8 Ghz @ 0.800 Volt
Stock: 1.9 Ghz @ 1.000 Volt

vs

AMD X2 BE-2350 (AM2) stock - 1.25V

Minimum: 1.0 GHz @ 0.825 Volt
Stock: 2.1 GHz @ 1.000 Volt


Power consumption:

RMClock idle: standoff
Cool 'n Quiet: BE-2350 2 watts more efficient
Idle: BE-2350 4 watts more efficient
RMClock load: 3600+ 5 watts more efficient (?)
Peak load: BE-2350 7 watts more efficient

I can't account for the unexpected difference under RMClock load. I must've gotten the figures wrong when testing the 3600+ a few weeks back. But it does explain why I'm not a successful scientist.

All in all, the BE-2350 seems to be more efficient and very cool.
Last edited by Palindroman on Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

prod
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Post by prod » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:53 pm

Thanks palindroman, thats very helpful. The two seem very similar, perhaps the BE is binned to be slightly better, but Im not sure the limited availability and 50% cost premium are worth it. Looks like I will be going for a 3600.

Mariner
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Post by Mariner » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:38 am

Palindroman wrote:AMD Athlon X2 3600+ - Brisbane (AM2) stock - 1.35V

Minimum: 0.8 Ghz @ 0.800 Volt
Stock: 1.8 Ghz @ 1.000 Volt
Stock clock speed of the Brisbane 3600+ is actually 1.9GHz. Not sure if this has any bearing on your figures or if it's just a typo.

Price/performance-wise, it still looks as though the 3600+ is the way to go.

Palindroman
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Post by Palindroman » Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:19 am

Mariner wrote:
Palindroman wrote:AMD Athlon X2 3600+ - Brisbane (AM2) stock - 1.35V

Minimum: 0.8 Ghz @ 0.800 Volt
Stock: 1.8 Ghz @ 1.000 Volt
Stock clock speed of the Brisbane 3600+ is actually 1.9GHz. Not sure if this has any bearing on your figures or if it's just a typo.

Price/performance-wise, it still looks as though the 3600+ is the way to go.
Was a mistake on my part. Thanks for pointing out. If I have time today I will run a performance test (PC Mark 05) and compate it to the 3600+.

mikellpp
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Post by mikellpp » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:57 am

What motherboard are you using?

Palindroman
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Post by Palindroman » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:26 pm

mikellpp wrote:What motherboard are you using?
A Gigabyte GA-M61PM-S2.


I've run a performance test and here's the result.

3600+ vs BE-2350

CPU: 3695 vs 4145
System: 2833 vs 2975

The BE-2350's performance is more comparable to the X2 3800+, but still more expensive off course.

By the way, I updated my BIOS so the mobo would recognize the BE-2350, but now the system keeps crashing at 0.825v. I'll have a look at that when I have time and do some further testing.

frank2003
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Post by frank2003 » Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:21 am

Any word on whether the BE-2350 can run passively using stock heatsink? If so, at what max voltage and frequency?

jackylman
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Post by jackylman » Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:13 am

frank2003 wrote:Any word on whether the BE-2350 can run passively using stock heatsink? If so, at what max voltage and frequency?
If you're going to attempt this, I would recommend cleaning the stock thermal adhesive and using a high quality thermal compound (AS5). A nearby exhaust fan would be quite useful too.

prod
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Post by prod » Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:02 am

The last time I ran a cpu without a fan it was a pentium 100MHz, which ran at around 4 watts idle. It was extremely hot, too hot to touch.
Although the heatsink size back then was more like a passive north bridge cooler is these days.
I would start with a speed controlled cpu fan, and make trial runs reducing the speed a bit at a time. You dont want to burn a brand new cpu. :lol:

Palindroman
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Post by Palindroman » Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:41 am

I can recommend Gigabyte boards from a fan control perspective. It has an utility called EasyTune with which you can shut the fan off until your CPU heats up above a certain threshold. In this way, an undervolted BE-2350 will only have to be actively cooled when it's under considerable load.

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