Bending a HR-05

[angelkiller]

I've recently acquired a Scythe Infinity and a HR-05. I also have a Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 and a P180. The Infinity is massive and only fits facing the top exhaust. (The fan hits a memory module when facing the rear exhaust) However the HR-05 actually touches the fan and I had to bend the HR-05 in order to squeeze it in. This can only be temporary because a slight touch to the HR-05 will either block the Infinity's fan or lose contact with the NB. I'm looking for a way to bend the heatpipes so the HR-05 will not interfere with the Infinity's fan. I've included some pictures to help describe the situation.


The fifth picture shows how I would like to bend the HR-05. I would like the bend at the base to be about 45 degrees from vertical and the the bend near the fins to be the other 135 degrees. My biggest issue is making the second bend. I bent what I have already with my hands. However I can't make the second bend with my hands nor do I have a toolbench/tools to use for this.

Is my bending idea possible? If so how would I do it? Are there any better ways?

Thanks!

[mbetea]

I would think you'd need some tools to do it. Possibly heating the pipes up with a propane torch. But I can't see the second bend being made without messing with some of the fins.

The HR-05 SLI already has this mod done to it.

[SlaveToSilence]

i wouldnt heat it, im pretty sure heating alluminium makes it lose all strength, you'd probably end up breaking it

is the 2nd bend really necessary? or just for asthetics?


failing this, maybe it might be a good idea to get the SLI heatsink they make, that would solve the problem, but might put it in the way of something else then!



good luck whatever you try

[angelkiller]

I would think you'd need some tools to do it.

Do you know what kind of tools I'd need? I'm really clueless here. By chance do you know anyone who may already have these tools? (eg mechanic, etc)

is the 2nd bend really necessary? or just for asthetics?

It's a mix of both. I do want it to look nice (not bent 45* to the right) but I was also concerned with the airflow path with such a steep angle. When It's parallel with the fan air can flow directly through it. But then again, its so close to the fan it may not matter....

but might put it in the way of something else then!

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the HR-05 SLI will interfere with my graphics card. Plus money is kinda tight right now.

Thanks for your replies and any others that may come!

[angelkiller]

Anyone have any ideas? Am I not giving enough information? I'm trying to get some more clearance between my Infinity and my HR-05. The Infinity isn't moving so I thought moving the HR-05 would be a better idea. Probelm is that I don't know how to manipulate the heatpipes. What tools/methods should I use? Where can I get them?

Thanks!

[Fuzzilla]

Hi angelkiller,

An angle bend instead of a curve, especially two of them, will affect rate of cooling for the HR-05. You will also create a compound curve in the heatpipes as well which will further reduce the heat transfer. Making only one bend will reduce the airflow if it is passive due to the tilt created.

I think I would remove the fan from the Infinity and build a duct from the top case fan to the Infinity using it to draw air through the CPU HS. This will give clearance to the HR-05 so no bending is needed. It will also help draw a bit of air through the HR-05. You could even add a second duct from the HR-05 to the Infinity. Polystyrene plastic is usually available at a hobby shop. Do a paperboard mock-up & transfer the final to the plastic.

If you really want to bend the HR-05, find a REPUTABLE machine shop or tool and die shop & explain your needs. As a degreed tool & die maker I can tell you bending the heatpipes without damaging the fins would cost more in labor than you paid for the HR-05. Buying the tools would cost more than the HR-05. Your safest & most effective solution is the duct I believe, as bending the pipes without damaging the HR-05 would honestly be a b h!

I too have a HR-05 & decided to go with a NINJA Rev.B for this same reason, lack of clearance.

Hope this helps!

[angelkiller]

Ah, thanks for your insightful post. Greatly appreciated.

So basically, its not really worth it. I'm currently using a push push fan configuration on the Infinity. I'm OC'ing but still getting high temps. I don't think a single fan will do. (Idle=40C for E4400 @ 2.9GHz, stock voltage)

An angle bend instead of a curve

What's the difference? (sharpness?) Would a curve be better? Cheaper?

Thanks again!

[Fuzzilla]

So basically, its not really worth it. I'm currently using a push push fan configuration on the Infinity. I'm OC'ing but still getting high temps. I don't think a single fan will do. (Idle=40C for E4400 @ 2.9GHz, stock voltage)

An angle bend instead of a curve

What's the difference? (sharpness?) Would a curve be better? Cheaper?

Thanks again!

In short no, it's not worth it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for pushing the limits, but this I would not try.

IMHO, if it takes two fans to cool a HS, it's not the one for me. The fins on the Infinity are a bit close I think, I bailed on it for a Ninja Rev. B. And if you have two fans (I hope you mean "push-pull") & high temps that's just wrong. You might wanna reseat the HS & use AS5 paste. If you have both the HS fan & case fan blowing toward the HS that is a problem, you should use the top case fan for exhaust, otherwise there is no "flow" through the HS, it just traps hot air.
Lapping the CPU & HS should drop the temps by about 5 deg. C.
The proximity of the HR-05 may be starving the fan a little. You could move the fan to the top of the Infinity & remove the top case fan. This keeps a fan attached to the HS, & there should be a bit of pull from the bottom of the Infinity for the HR-05.

Oh yeah, I haven't tried a Ninja & a HR-05 but on paper it works on a P4C800-E Deluxe. They are close together at the fins, so the "pull" from the case fans should draw air up from the HR-05 through the Ninja. I'm planning on OC'ing a P4EE 3.2 GHz Gallatin so a HS was no small matter.

[angelkiller]

Well, I got the Infinity for $20 so it was a pretty good deal. Even if it doesn't cool very well. I'm just disappointed because I see reviews where this thing cools OC extreme edition CPU's and it can barely cool my E4400. Linky to my problems. Yes, I do mean a push push fan configuration. Bottom fan pulls in from bottom, top fan pulls cool air from top opening (P180) and rear fan blows it all out. I tried a push-pull but my idle temps started climbing into the 50's. I'm using screws and springs to mount the Infinity and I using AS5 and I've remounted the thing four or five times now. Lapping certainly would help, but I thought I'd get better performance without it....

So thanks for the advice! I'll probably bend the HR-05 just a bit more with my hands so it won't stop the fan so often. Then I'll leave it alone.

[Fuzzilla]

Good Mornin'

Okay, the basics:
For proper case airflow the air should go in from the front and/or bottom of the case & exhaust from the rear and/or top of the case to follow the laws of hatura(oops. more coffee please) natural convection.
The P18x cases (I own two p182's) do a great job of this, when both the rear & top fans pull air from the case. Since the front of the P18x has no fans in the upper chamber (unless you add them) the front is passive at the two openings. As long as the rear & top fan exhaust air out the cool air comes in from the front. Front fans will add a little noise but also create a "wash" of air through more of the internal area of the case. While case temps may rise, component temps will fall from the extra air passing over them. A "middle" case fan added to the upper chamber at the 2nd HDD cage will help cool the vid card & other components too. It will force hot air trapped at the bottom/rear of the case to the top to be exhausted by the rear & top fans. Yeah, some hot air will travel to the CPU HS but that is just the way it is, it won't affect temps like you may think, & you are "agreeing" with the law of convection not trying to fight it.

The faster the air flow, the hotter the air. As air moves the molecules heat up, the more you move them the hotter they get. Unless you start with cool air you just end up with more hot air. So again, cool air in, warm air out.

The push-push is an issue. You are fighting mother nature. You will lose. The air gets trapped in the Infinity & does not flow through, creating a pocket of hot air. For air cooling to work the hot air must escape as fast as the cool air travels in.
Try this:
Set the top case fan to exhaust air (outie). Take a sheet of paper & size
it to make a duct from the top of the Infinity to the bottom of the top
case fan, removing the Infinity's fan entirely. Or remove the top case
fan, make the paper duct to the top exhaust hole, whichever suits you.
It's not meant to be permanent, just to show you how flow affects temps. You will see your temps drop as the hot air from the HS leaves the case, never to return.

Things to know:
If the HS fan pushes more air than the top exhaust fan the top fan will restrict flow, though the back pressure on it will cause it to spin up a little. If the top fan is faster than the HS fan, then the HS fan will "drag" the top fan down a bit but the stronger top fan will make it spin up a little. It is always best to use matching fans in a multipe fan configuration so they don't conflict with each other.

Faster is not always better. The key word is always efficient
You can bolt a Chevy LS7 into a Yugo , but until you change the transmission ya' ain't going anywhare fast. You can move a metric ton of air around in a case, or through a HS, but if the hot waste air isn't exhausted the cool air can't come in so you end up "swirling" hot air over & over.

Also, & this is a really big issue since you O/C:
I also read your post at XPCU. Wuzy's right, there is very poor contact between the CPU & the HS, & way too much paste. Heat spreaders on modern CPU's are very concave for some reason. The Typhoon is not at all flat. The AS5 is only meant to fill VERY small gaps, when it is thick (like 0.5mm or more) it does not transfer heat well, it's not made to at that thickness. Lap 'dem puppies if you wanna O/C that beast! You do not need a mirror finish, you need flat surfaces. Flat like "I cna't(coffeecoffeecoffee) can't see any daylight between the surface & a razor blade held at 90 deg." kinda flat. Google for lapping guide & read all you can. Mirror is nice for bragging rights only, flat is most important. You can bolt a Pratt and Whitney turbo-prop to the Infinity, but until there is superior contact between the CPU & HS base the heat will never transfer from the CPU to the HS so more air won't matter. With a lapped setup efficiency will rise & less air will be needed, reducing noise. When the HS is getting warm it's a good thing, it's doing it's job. The goal is a cool CPU, not a cool HS.

So:
1) Lap the CPU & HS. Remember, flat. Go to at least 600 grit, 800 if you want ideal, higher if you want to signal distant ships.
While you are at it, check the northbridge & HR-05, you probably need to lap them flat as well.
1a) The idea of heatsink grease is to provide contact at the nano-level. I both follow Arctic Silver's directions as well as "rub-n-press" them to smear it across the entire heatspreader/HS base. Thin is in.
2) Use the fans at the top & the rear to exhaust air from the case. If the hot air doesn't leave the cool air can't enter.
3) If you want to O/C, at least add a third fan in the upper chamber at the HDD cage to "wash" the cards & mobo more effectively. It doesn't need to be a screamer, it just needs to "efficiently" move air across cards & components. While case temp will rise, component temps will fall. Since it's the components that fail under heat, cooling them not the case is your goal.
4) Read. Read more. Read even more. Keep reading. Much of what I typed is on the net. AMD's Case Cooling/Airflow Guide is a defacto standard based on physics. Lapping guides & why it's important are everywhere, when you read enough of them you'll se why I say "fudge" to mirror finishes, flat is king. Read about sucessful O/C'ing & you'll learn why all the components need cooling. You may figure out why the Ninje Rev.B is better than the Infinity in a Antec P18x case if you start right here at SPCR. I've learned a lot from the articles/guides/forums.

Dude, I'v got to get some more java! HTH

[angelkiller]

Ok, before I begin, let me say thank you for you detailed post. Before I respond to individual points, I'd like to say all my random lose ends. All three of my fans are 800rpm Scythe S-Flex's. I also have an X1950Pro with an AC S1 running passive. (No intake fan, max temps in games is 70C) I also want to say that I resorted to this odd push-push config because the others that I tried didn't work. And money is really tight considering I'm in high school, so I can't go out and buy whatever.

The faster the air flow, the hotter the air.

Isn't this a good reason not to add an intake? Convection will move the hot air to the top of the case where my rear case fan will exhaust it. I'm not trying to challenge you, I'm just looking for understanding. Also on this note, if this is true how do fans work? (eg ceiling fans) If they move air, which heats it up, why does the air feel cool? Is it because the slightly warmer air is still cooler than your body?

The push-push is an issue. You are fighting mother nature. You will lose.

I've tried two exhaust fans with a fan on the Infinity, and temps were still high. I've tried a duct which completely failed, and I've tried this push-push, which keeps temps "hot". (rather than "extremely hot" or "melting hot".) However, *sigh* I'm still flexible, so I'll try your ideas when I get some time. Any particular fans you want me to use? (I have 3 Tri-Cools, 3 800rpm S-Flex's, and 1 stock Infinity fan. the 3 S-Flexes are dead quiet and my preferred fan to use.)

As for my reasoning behind the push push config, it's based on air "friction" (Yes I did make that up ) Lower fan pushes warm ambient air into HS, Top fan blows cool air in from top of case. Since the Infinity needs more airflow to be really effective (according to Wuzy), The turbulence created by the fans will remove more heat from the fins. (Since one fan alone doesn't move enough air to do so) And the rear fan pulls the turbulent air out of the case.

there is very poor contact between the CPU & the HS

I now agree with this conclusion, but it still puzzles/frustrates me. First, how can the Infinity keep a E6300 OC'ed by 100% at 1.5v, under 60C!! My Infinity cant keep a 50% OC'ed E4400 at stock voltages under 60C! My biggest concern is how can X-Bit labs get these results with a stock Infinity? I've improved the mounting kit and using a similar (physical) setup, and can't get anywhere near their results. Surely they didn't lap anything. Anyways, ignoring the relatively poor performance, I do understand your point. I knew AS5 was for filling the microscopic gaps, but didn't know it wasn't good for macroscopic gaps. Lapping is a must. I'll get to that eventually....

-Thanks again!

[angelkiller]

I know this discussion is very off-topic. But since I've resolved my HR-05 issue (There's nothing I can do to bend it), we might as well go OT.

[mentawl]

Another relatively cheap option may be to get a 120*20mm fan, as linked by Bluefront in this thread:

viewtopic.php?t=41795

Would probably give you enough clearance to avoid having to bend the HR-05, and they're only $5 =).

--Tom