SPCR

Hi, this is my first post here and my first build. I've done a lot of research, but I'm still having trouble choosing a motherboard. I'm hoping someone here can guide me in the right direction.

I've narrowed it down to the following 3 boards. These seem to be the most reliable mid-range boards that meet my requirements (onboard firewire, eSATA).

- Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3P (Rev 2.1)

- Asus P5K-E

- Abit IP35 Pro

The CPU I bought is an Intel E8400. The problem is, I have no idea if any of these boards will support the new Wolfdale 45nm chips out of the box without having to update the BIOS . If I had to I could always buy a cheap Conroe just to update the BIOS, but I'd like to avoid that if possible.

This build is purely for digital audio. I may OC slightly, but my main concern is stability. Since I'll probably need the latest BIOS version to support the E8400, whichever board I choose must have a reliable BIOS. With all this in mind, which out of these boards would you recommend most for a DAW?

Thanks.

I'd go for the Gigabyte board. Their P35 boards have been really solid and I like their BIOS support.

I have a GA-P35-DS3 and it may just be the most solid board I've ever owned. I currently use it with an E6600 clocked to 3.2GHz on a 400MHz FSB (1600MHz if you use Intel lingo). I also have 8GB RAM (4*2GB) in the board, which I run at 800MHz without any trouble. The board also has very good onboard audio in the form of Realtek's ALC889A.

As far as BIOS support for Penryn, I'd believe that the EP35-DS3P 2.1 has that out of the box. If not, the board probably boots with the CPU anyway, though not recognising it.

EDIT: And welcome to SPCR!

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if the BIOS doesn't recognize the CPU, isn't the only problem, that the bios just can' set the correct FSB and multiplier and so on, and you'll just get some random default settings??

I believe that that the new Gigabyte GA-EP35-D* series have Penryn support out-of-the-box.

My only experiance with cpus that are not supported by the bios was Opterons in 939 motherboards, where they were not officially supported.

On my rig it cause the temp reading to be wrong. The multiplier is set by the cpu. Otherwise we would be hacking the bios to give us unlocked multipliers.

Do a google search or contact the company to find out. I can't see there being a problem but probably best to do some research first.

soma wrote:Otherwise we would be hacking the bios to give us unlocked multipliers.

It's capped, not completely locked You can still lower the multiplier it if you for some reason want to, although I think the lowest you can go on E8x00s are 6.0x?

Thanks, I'm leaning toward the Gigabyte board but still need to do some research.

As far as multipliers, if you wanted to run DDR2 RAM at 800MHz without OC'ing an E8400 @ 3.0GHz, wouldn't you have set the mulitplier to 9 and the divisor to 5:6?

This is all fairly new to me, so I may be completely wrong.

I bought a Intel DP35DP board with my Intel E8400. My previous board, an ASUS P5B Deluxe (P965) supports the 45nm chips with a BIOS update, but unfortunately the board died in the middle of the flash, so I had to buy this board at a B&M. Normally I don't buy Intel boards because they seem a little sterile, but I am very impressed with this P35 board. Supports all 45nm Wolfdale CPUs out of the box even lets you use a USB flash drive for the F6 SCSI/RAID driver install during WinXP setup. Not only that, but the fan controller is very well engineered and it keeps my 3 fans (2 120mm and Intel HSF at < 1000rpm @ idle and ramps them up as needed and then ramps them immediately back down again).

Fast booting, Intel PRO GigE controller and 10-channel HD audio. All for around $110. Like I said, I normally go for high-end ASUS or Gigabyte boards, but this Intel board is very well made.

Hi psionic, got some questions for you. How do you feel Intel's onboard audio compares with your previous board? Can you touch the ICH9R southbridge and see if it doesn't run too hot? (Some people reported very high SB temps with this board.) Is it possible to configure the BIOS to beep if one of the fans (CPU, SYS1 or SYS2) fail?

Mikael wrote:I have a GA-P35-DS3 and it may just be the most solid board I've ever owned. I currently use it with an E6600 clocked to 3.2GHz on a 400MHz FSB (1600MHz if you use Intel lingo). I also have 8GB RAM (4*2GB) in the board, which I run at 800MHz without any trouble.

8 GB RAM? What brand? I'm leaning towards the GA-P35-DS3L, and there aren't any 800MHz 2GB modules on the QVL. I know very little motherboards and memory, but I've been told it's important to buy memory that's on the QVL.

mcv wrote:8 GB RAM? What brand? I'm leaning towards the GA-P35-DS3L, and there aren't any 800MHz 2GB modules on the QVL. I know very little motherboards and memory, but I've been told it's important to buy memory that's on the QVL.

It's OEM A-Data memory of the cheapest variety and it's not on the QVL list for the board. Generally speaking there is very seldom any problems with memory not on the QVL list. What you may have to do is to tweak the memory timings, but if you use SPD timings that shouldn't be necessary either.

Hi psionic, got some questions for you. How do you feel Intel's onboard audio compares with your previous board? Can you touch the ICH9R southbridge and see if it doesn't run too hot? (Some people reported very high SB temps with this board.) Is it possible to configure the BIOS to beep if one of the fans (CPU, SYS1 or SYS2) fail?

The ICH9 SB does run hot. Intel Desktop Utilities is reporting the temp @ 74C (idle). I did not see BIOS settings for beeping on fan failure, in fact the BIOS settings for the fans is pretty sparse (something like a couple settings that can be set Normal/Aggressive), but the controller algorithm is very well done and rather conservative. My P5B Deluxe ran much louder, even with tweaking the BIOS. Actually the BIOS in general is pretty sparse, so if you are an overclocker this board will probably dissapoint.

As for the SigmaTel 10-ch audio, I've only played with it for about a day, but the quality seems excellent. I did not hear any hiss, crackle or other interference, even with the volume up high on very quiet classical music. I have an X-Fi XtremeGamer ready to put in, but as of right now I see no need. I would say it is better than the Realtek CODEC on my P5B Deluxe. My only complaint is that the line out seems insufficiently amplified. I had to run my speakers at a higher volume than normal.

Also, this board is one of the fastest booting boards I have ever seen. You see the Intel splash logo for a couple seconds and then right to booting the OS.

Mikael wrote:

mcv wrote:8 GB RAM? What brand? I'm leaning towards the GA-P35-DS3L, and there aren't any 800MHz 2GB modules on the QVL. I know very little motherboards and memory, but I've been told it's important to buy memory that's on the QVL.

It's OEM A-Data memory of the cheapest variety and it's not on the QVL list for the board. Generally speaking there is very seldom any problems with memory not on the QVL list. What you may have to do is to tweak the memory timings, but if you use SPD timings that shouldn't be necessary either.

Really? I'd been told that that could cause memory problems, or at least unreasonably slow your memory access down. But now that I've read about SPD (apparently the memory chip tells the BIOS at what speed it should be accessed), I kinda wonder what the QVL and all the tweaking are for.

Hi. The P35 DS3L is very hightly rated. It costs $90 and runs very well. I chose to get the DS3R, which is the next step up. It has better power regulation circuitry components, which results in more efficiency and stability. I really like mine. It was $127. I'm running an E8400 in mine. I've gotten as much as 3.8GHz, on air, without extensive testing. They also have a new energy efficient line, which just came out.

Abit line is highly praised by overclockers, gigabyte line generally well respected all around, but especially recommended for cool / quiet running.

YMMV.

Thanks psionic for the info. Glad to hear you're happy with your board.

djkest wrote:Hi. The P35 DS3L is very hightly rated. It costs $90 and runs very well. I chose to get the DS3R, which is the next step up. It has better power regulation circuitry components, which results in more efficiency and stability.

I just noticed the latest version of the DS3 also has DES (which I assume is what you mean by the power regulation circuitry). As far as I can tell, it's identical to the DS3L, except for two more SATA connectors (running out of SATA was my first worry when I saw the DS3L), and DES. So I think the DS3 is actually exactly what I need.

Unless it turns out that the DS3L is built in a completely different and more practical way. Identical specs don't necessarily mean identical performance or usability. And people seem to like the DS3L quite a lot.

Hi, I decided to get the DS3P along with the E8400. I'll let you know how it all works out, although I'm sure I'll have more questions.

Thanks for your help.

psionic wrote:Actually the BIOS in general is pretty sparse, so if you are an overclocker this board will probably dissapoint.

For all Gigabyte boards you have to press CTRL + F1 in the main BIOS screen to get access to all overclocking options. From what I know Gigabyte has good overclocking options even on mATX mb.

I have the G33-DS3R and I'm quite happy with it - good o/c and fan control is doing a good job of keeping them silent.

zeroneleven wrote: As far as multipliers, if you wanted to run DDR2 RAM at 800MHz without OC'ing an E8400 @ 3.0GHz, wouldn't you have set the mulitplier to 9 and the divisor to 5:6?

No, that sounds like some sort of AMD-style thing. Intel Motherboards support various RAM speeds, usually referred to as "memory straps." For example, if your MB says it supports 1333MHz CPU and 800MHz RAM, this means it will support a 5:6 FSB:RAM strap. In other words the FSB is 333 (4 X 333 = ~1333) and the RAM clock is 400 (2 X 400 = 800). Thus, you can run your RAM up to whatever speed the MB supports without overclocking anything. I believe all motherboards based on current chipsets support RAM speeds of 800MHz or higher -- certainly any MB that supports 1333MHz CPU will support 800MHz RAM.

After you hit CTL-F1 you can overclock to your hearts desire. I think with mine, I can change the Vcore in .00625 increments, or something stupid small like that.

OP: you will be very happy w/ the DS3P, I guarentee it. That one is a step up from the one I have!

I just ordered the abit ip35 pro for my e8400 I just bought. It was often recommended on this forum (in the "recommended motherboards" sticky also). I was thinking about the ds3l but the ip35 has gotten better reviews. It was only $60 more expensive and seems to have better video card support (PCI Express 2.0). It does support e8400 out of the box according to the abit forums. The temps will be insane (260C) until you update the BIOS though. Abit also seems to be a better brand.

jtr3030 wrote:Abit also seems to be a better brand.

Based on what?

jtr3030 - I'm thinking of upgrading my system to something almost identical to yours sometime in the next few weeks. Basically just a different PSU and more HDDs on mine. Please let us (or at least me ) know how it goes.

jimbo7707 wrote:

jtr3030 wrote:Abit also seems to be a better brand.

Based on what?

I read on various forums and review sites that they had better quality products, but I couldn't provide specific reasons. I just got a general impression.

What do you think? Which is better - IP35 Pro or one of the DS3 series boards? Their specs are almost identical but the ip35 pro has slightly better features, but I don't know if that justifies the price difference.

Stacey Melissa wrote:jtr3030 - I'm thinking of upgrading my system to something almost identical to yours sometime in the next few weeks. Basically just a different PSU and more HDDs on mine. Please let us (or at least me ) know how it goes.

Yea I'm using an old PSU still but I'll get the Corsair HX520 soon hopefully. I also will be getting more hard drives possibly for a server, and getting rid of this Barracuda. Our builds seem pretty standard around here and elsewhere so there's a lot of information that's easy to find but I'll keep you posted. If you didn't order the parts yet, wait a little longer. The prices have already gone down in the 2-3 days since I ordered most of the parts. Late January/early February is one of the best times of the year to buy.

Sorry don't mean to change topic.

I'm also trying to decide between these boards.

Do all of the Gigabyte DS3P bios allow you to set the voltage for every fan header independently, depending on current temperature of the CPU/NB/VRM? That's one of the best features of the Abit IP35 Pro.

The ability to run any fan header at 6w while idle, and 8-12w when certain temps increase [without the need for any Windows software] during load is a significant benefit for silent systems.

Hello folks,

I too am eyeing the E8400 as a starting point for a new PC build. I want my setup to have HTPC capabilities. I remember looking earlier at motherboards when I was going to build around an e6850 and there was an all-in-one gigabyte board with HDMI called the GA-G33M-S2H that was very good, BUT, it was limited in it's graphics port speed. This x4 graphics slot on the G33M really cut down on the performance. I was hoping to make use of onboard video for now, but I don't want a board that limits me if I want to install a video card for gaming/htpc improvements later.

Does anybody know how if there is an all-in-one motherboard with HDMI that I can use with the E8400 cpu that allows for a full speed graphics card to be used later if desired?

jessekopelman wrote:

zeroneleven wrote: As far as multipliers, if you wanted to run DDR2 RAM at 800MHz without OC'ing an E8400 @ 3.0GHz, wouldn't you have set the mulitplier to 9 and the divisor to 5:6?

No, that sounds like some sort of AMD-style thing. Intel Motherboards support various RAM speeds, usually referred to as "memory straps." For example, if your MB says it supports 1333MHz CPU and 800MHz RAM, this means it will support a 5:6 FSB:RAM strap. In other words the FSB is 333 (4 X 333 = ~1333) and the RAM clock is 400 (2 X 400 = 800). Thus, you can run your RAM up to whatever speed the MB supports without overclocking anything. I believe all motherboards based on current chipsets support RAM speeds of 800MHz or higher -- certainly any MB that supports 1333MHz CPU will support 800MHz RAM.

Thanks a lot. I thought I finally understood how memory speed related to FSB, and now you're telling something completely different. I'm planning to buy either an E8200 or E8400 with either a GA-P35-DS3L or GA-EP35-DS3, and thought I'd finally figured out that 667MHz was the fastest ram speed that would matter (which surprised me, because there's plenty of much faster ram).

According to the Gigabyte website, the GA-EP35-DS3 supports memory of up to 1066MHz. Someone else's explanation had led me to believe that that would be useless in combination with an E8x00, as the FSB could handle only 667MHz, but now I understand I can go waste my precious money on way faster memory than that.

KenAF wrote:I'm also trying to decide between these boards.

Do all of the Gigabyte DS3P bios allow you to set the voltage for every fan header independently, depending on current temperature of the CPU/NB/VRM? That's one of the best features of the Abit IP35 Pro.

The ability to run any fan header at 6w while idle, and 8-12w when certain temps increase [without the need for any Windows software] during load is a significant benefit for silent systems.

I looked through the manuals of a whole bunch of different P35 and X38 boards, including the popular Gigabyte models like the DS3P, and found that the Abit board was the only one with good fan control settings. That's the main reason I've decided to go with the IP35 Pro. I'd say the fan control on the IP35 Pro is drool-worthy, except that I think those features should be baseline on any motherboard.

The DS3P had very few fan config options in BIOS. You get to turn on or off "CPU Smart Fan Control" in BIOS and set whether the CPU fan header controls speed via PWM or voltage, but you have to configure everything else about it using the EasyTune utility in Windows. The EasyTune manual showed two different possibilities for fan control, the availability of which, I imagine, would depend on specific motherboard capabilities. There was linear control, just like with Abit, and also non-linear control with up to four configurable fan speeds. But speed control was only available on the CPU fan header and triggered only by CPU temp, and I wasn't able to find out whether EasyTune must be running all the time for the functionality to work.

jtr3030 wrote:What do you think? Which is better - IP35 Pro or one of the DS3 series boards?

Good question, one I don't have an answer to. I had narrowed it down to those two boards myself and was leaning towards the Gigabyte. But, I have now decided to wait a bit on the new PC build so it became a moot point for me. In my research I seemed to run across a few more user complaints about the Abit board than the Gigabyte but that is purely anecdotal and probably meaningless. The fan control of the IP35 is very tempting and I agree, it should be on all boards. People say the customer support from Gigabyte is one of the better of all the board manufacturers. By the time I'm ready to build next fall or winter there will probably be a whole new batch of hardware available so I can go through this all again

Best of luck on whichever you choose.

One should be aware that the current bios for the Abit IP35 Pro does not fully support the E8x00 line of CPUs. It reports temperatures incorrectly which causes warnings in the bios and any system monitor programs that you have.

You can still install Windows, but without accurate temperatures, the bios fan control doesn't work as it should.

Abit has said it is working on a solution for the problem. Before buying another IP35 Pro for my new E8400 PC, I intend to wait for them to fix this problem. If they can't, I suppose I'll buy the Gigabyte.