GA-p35-DS3x northbridge too hot?

[mcv]

I heard some reports that the northbridge heatsink on many GA-P35-DS3x motherboards could get quite hot. Not to the point of it actually causing any problems, but still, since I'm planning to buy a GA-P35-DS3L, (with a passively cooled E8400 on it), I'm mildly concerned.

Would it help to buy a better northbridge cooler? Would it make sense at all, or am I just worried about nothing? And if I buy one, is the Zalman ZM-NB47J a good choice? It costs almost nothing, so if it gives even a small improvement, it'd be an acceptable investment.

And how hard is it to remove the original heatsink anyway?

[tehfire]

IIRC removal of the Gigabyte northbridges are mildly more difficult than other brands. I'm pretty sure they have a push-pin system, so to take them off you have to either cut off the push-pins or try to push them out, but it's pretty difficult.

Are you worrying about nothing? Probably so. Most northbridges are rated to about 100C, but I don't know how close the DS3x northbridges get to this temperature. If you wanted piece of mind, I'd recommend the Thermalright HR-05. It has more surface area than the Zalman, and because it's so tall it may pick up some case airflow. I actually bought one for an older system for the piece of mind, but it didn't help stability/overclocking at all.

[smilingcrow]

since I'm planning to buy a GA-P35-DS3L, (with a passively cooled E8400 on it), I'm mildly concerned.

The DS3L has a much smaller NB heatsink than the regular DS3; it’s one way they keep the cost down on the Lite boards.
I don’t think it’s a problem unless you are planning on over-clocking the FSB significantly.
If you want some peace of mind and don’t fancy the hassle of swapping the NB cooler why not get a non Lite Gigabyte board which don’t cost much more.

[KansaKilla]

I've got a DS3L. OC'd the FSB to 400+ with a 2160 (8 multiplier). The heatsink on the NB was hot enough to burn my finger. Not as hot when I ran the same 3.2 GHz at a 9x multiplier, though. I wanted the 400 FSB with an 8 multiplier since WUs during folding were faster than with the 9x multiplier and a lower FSB, even if it was at the same overall 3.2 GHz. So I got a NB-47F (the fanned-out version) that sits under my Ninja. The orientation is such that air will flow through the fins when moving inferior to superior (i.e. the fins are aligned superior to inferior but will block any airflow anterior to posterior). I think it is a terrific improvement, since i can touch the thing now without burning my finger, even at the base. The original NB heatsink was pinned on there, and all it took was a pair of needle-nose pliers to squeeze from the back and release the mechanism holding it down. There was such thick goop on it, though, that it stayed on and had to be wiggled to get it off. It was that putty kind that was popular on my Abit IS7. The new heatsink cost about $10 at microcenter, so I thought it was a good investment. Looking back, I would still have purchased an aftermarket heatsink even if I got a DS3x with a bigger stock heatsink, because I was planning on OC'ing the crap out of whatever I was going to get. If you are not planning on pusing the FSB really high, or are planning on undervolting the processor, then you probably don't need to get a new aftermarket heatsink, even if you are running the cpu hs passive.

[mcv]

I've never overclocked in my life, but after learning a bit about FSB and memory speed, I'm considering OCing the FSB to 400 MHz, in order to get the most out of DDR2 800MHz memory. I'll probably reduce the multiplier of the E8400 from 9 to 8.

On the other hand, chances are the machine will suit my needs perfectly at stock speeds, so it could be I'll use it at stock speed for a while, and only overclock a bit later on, when it's not so state of the art anymore.

I'm afraid I have no idea what superior to inferior fin alignment means.

I have considered buying the GA-P35-DS3 instead of the L version, which is about $10 more expensive, and has DES and 2 extra SATA slots. If it has a cooler northbridge, that'd be another reason to choose that over the L. On the other hand, I'm not sure DES even works on Linux, and a lot of people seem very positive about te DS3L in particular (although I'm not sure why; it looks like the DS3 is the same but with just a few more extras).

If the northbridges are rated to 100C, perhaps I can just afford to keep it like this. But what if I do decide to overclock my FSB?

[smilingcrow]

I've never overclocked in my life, but after learning a bit about FSB and memory speed, I'm considering OCing the FSB to 400 MHz, in order to get the most out of DDR2 800MHz memory.
I have considered buying the GA-P35-DS3 instead of the L version, which is about $10 more expensive, and has DES and 2 extra SATA slots. If it has a cooler northbridge, that'd be another reason to choose that over the L.
If the northbridges are rated to 100C, perhaps I can just afford to keep it like this. But what if I do decide to overclock my FSB?

I just did a test for you using a G33M-S2 which seems to use a similar size NB heat-sink as the P35-DS3L.
I compared the NB temp as reported by Speedfan with the FSB at 266 and 400 whilst keeping the CPU at 2.4GHz: 266 x 9 & 400 x 6. I used Orthos to load both cores of the CPU and the system has minimal low speed SPCR style cooling. Here’s the data:

FSB / NB Temp / NB Temp – Ambient Temp

266 / 51 / 30.5
400 / 57 / 34

I didn’t have to raise the voltage for the chipset and this helped in keeping the temps low. This suggests that provided you keep the voltage at stock the relatively small heat-sink is more than adequate to manage a FSB of 400.
I was using the integrated graphics of the G33 chipset which would have helped keep temps low. If you are running a 50W plus VGA card especially if passively cooled then that will have a negative impact on the NB temps I imagine, at least to some degree.
Another contributing factor is the cooling that you use on the CPU. I have a Ninja Rev A which doesn’t help cool the motherboard much but must help compared to using passive CPU cooling.

I have an ATI HD 3850 arriving in the next few days so if I get the chance I’ll try the same test with this card and also test it whilst using passive CPU cooling. The combination of those two should I predict seriously impact NB temps.

[KansaKilla]

I'm afraid I have no idea what superior to inferior fin alignment means.

Basically, it goes like this....

Imagine looking at a map on a wall, with North pointing towards the ceiling. From the map's point of view:
-Superior corresponds to North on the map.
-Inferior corresponds to South on the map.
-Left would be East.
-Right would be West.
-Anterior is the front of the map.
-Posterior is the back of the map.

With regards to the northbridge fan I described above, imagine a typical "Venetian" window blind, with the slats all horizontal so you can see out of the window. Now turn the blind 90 degrees, and that is effectively how I oriented the heatsink described above. The fins of the fan are oriented in a superior to inferior manner, like the window blind turned 90 degrees. Air can move freely between the fans in a north to south manner, but not front to back (anterior to posterior).

If you OC your FSB, you may need more cooling on your NB, but it will depend on your case flow. While mine could be slightly better, I have removed all the back PCI covers, dremeled out the front and rear fan intakes, and have the front cover open on my Compucase LX-6A19 (Antec SLK-3700 clone) with quiet 120mm fans all around. The Ninja probably blocked some of the air flow around the NB to begin with, so instead of monkeying around with it any more I decided to just slap on a better NB heatsink.

smilingcrow, thanks for posting those numbers. They are very interesting. I ended up increasing the NB voltage to find stability with my setup, but I didn't keep very good records and now I can't remember if it had any effect on the stability of the memory or OC at all. But at least it has been stable folding 24/7 for a week. I have a 3850 with an S1. When I get to the box I'll have to use Speedfan and we can compare. What version are you using, by the way?

[smilingcrow]

I just tried running with passive CPU cooling and the difference in NB temperature is startling. The CPU cooler is a Ninja Rev A and the fan a Scythe S-Flex SFF21E.
FSB = 266, Ambient temp = 21C

Temps – Fan speed 562 RPM / Passive / Delta between two temps

NB – 55 / 78 / 23
DTS – 56 / 79 / 23
CPU – 44 / 44 / 0

I was surprised to see the NB temperature rising by as much as the DTS temps.
I was using a Q6600 B3 at stock voltage but only loading two cores. If I’d used an under-volted Core 2 Duo with a more recent core revision the NB temps should have been lower I imagine.
I didn’t bother testing with the FSB at 400 as it turned out that it wasn’t stable at stock voltage.

smilingcrow, thanks for posting those numbers. They are very interesting. I ended up increasing the NB voltage to find stability with my setup, but I didn't keep very good records and now I can't remember if it had any effect on the stability of the memory or OC at all. But at least it has been stable folding 24/7 for a week. I have a 3850 with an S1. When I get to the box I'll have to use Speedfan and we can compare. What version are you using, by the way?

I have 4.32 but will update when I swap out my motherboard in the next few days.

[mcv]

I just tried running with passive CPU cooling and the difference in NB temperature is startling. The CPU cooler is a Ninja Rev A and the fan a Scythe S-Flex SFF21E.
FSB = 266, Ambient temp = 21C

Temps – Fan speed 562 RPM / Passive / Delta between two temps

NB – 55 / 78 / 23
DTS – 56 / 79 / 23
CPU – 44 / 44 / 0

I was surprised to see the NB temperature rising by as much as the DTS temps.
I was using a Q6600 B3 at stock voltage but only loading two cores. If I’d used an under-volted Core 2 Duo with a more recent core revision the NB temps should have been lower I imagine.
I didn’t bother testing with the FSB at 400 as it turned out that it wasn’t stable at stock voltage.

Looks like the stock NB cooler relies heavily on airflow from an active CPU cooler. Since I plan to use a Scythe Ninja rev B passive, I guess I do need a better NB cooler if I want to do any overclocking at all.

The only question remaining is: do I use something small and cheap like the ZM-NB47J, something a bit bigger and better like the ZM-NB47F, or a big heatpipe like the Thermalright HR-05. Thing is, if I want a heatpipe, wouldn't be better to simply buy a GA-P35-DS3P instead?

[smilingcrow]

Looks like the stock NB cooler relies heavily on airflow from an active CPU cooler. Since I plan to use a Scythe Ninja rev B passive, I guess I do need a better NB cooler if I want to do any overclocking at all.

The only question remaining is: do I use something small and cheap like the ZM-NB47J, something a bit bigger and better like the ZM-NB47F, or a big heatpipe like the Thermalright HR-05. Thing is, if I want a heatpipe, wouldn't be better to simply buy a GA-P35-DS3P instead?

Wouldn’t it be easier and cheaper to just use a low noise 120mm fan on the Ninja? My fan at under 600 RPM is inaudible even late at night with a low background noise level.

[mcv]

Wouldn’t it be easier and cheaper to just use a low noise 120mm fan on the Ninja? My fan at under 600 RPM is inaudible even late at night with a low background noise level.

Perhaps it would, but I don't like the idea of having to use a fan on my CPU heatsink which doesn't need one, because the NB heatsink doesn't work properly without the extra airflow. If the NB heatsink is inadequate, that's the one that should be fixed IMO.

Besides, I don't think a quiet fan costs much less than a northbridge heatsink. The ZM-NB47J is a lot cheaper, even.

[smilingcrow]

Perhaps it would, but I don't like the idea of having to use a fan on my CPU heatsink which doesn't need one, because the NB heatsink doesn't work properly without the extra airflow. If the NB heatsink is inadequate, that's the one that should be fixed IMO.

I see your point but I wouldn’t say that the NB heatisnk doesn’t work properly it’s more that you are using your system in a way that it’s not designed for. The NB heatstink isn’t inadequate as it copes easily with a 400MHz FSB even though the chipset is only rated for 333MHz. It’s a matter of semantics I guess.
It’ll be interesting to see how well a replacement heatsink does with a FSB of 400 and passive CPU cooling.

I prefer using a fan on my CPU as it helps to cool the motherboard components as well as the NB and it gives me headroom if I want to use a quad core CPU.

[mcv]

I'm not using a quad core CPU, but an E8400, which shouldn't be too hard to cool passively. But if the standard NB heatsink is made with the assumption that you either don't do any overclocking, or have a fan on the CPU, then the NB heatsink is not good enough for what I want. My options as I see them are:

* Don't overclock the FSB
* Use a better NB heatsink
* Use a different motherboard that's more suited to a passively cooled NB

By far the easiest option is to simply not overclock. I've got no idea what difference a 400MHz FSB really makes compared to a 333MHz one. I suspect the diadvantage of a slower FSB might be partially mitigated by memory with a CAS Latency. I've discovered that 2x2GB 800MHz CL4 modules are really hard to find. This might become a lot easier if I simply stick to 667MHz memory.

[newschool]

I have a P35-DS3L. I am not sure if there is a NB temp sensor. In the latest everest, I only have a value called "motherboard temperature".
It is at 42C. I dont think it is the NB temp because I have a HR-05 SLI installed on the NB and it is not hot all, even at the base...

So what is motherboard temp?

[smilingcrow]

I have a P35-DS3L. I am not sure if there is a NB temp sensor. In the latest everest, I only have a value called "motherboard temperature".
It is at 42C. I dont think it is the NB temp because I have a HR-05 SLI installed on the NB and it is not hot all, even at the base...

So what is motherboard temp?

You’ve got me wondering now whether the temp I’ve reported as being the NB is actually something else. I don’t have a temp sensor to check unfortunately but I’ll try the touch test and see if that corroborates it to some degree.

[ReelMonza]

It is something else not the NB temperature, it is more like the system temperature.
I read somewhere that the sensor is installed at the end of the x16 PCI-E slot
MCH and ICH also have a DTS just like CPUs but you can only check the temperatures choosing Intel QST for smart fan control

[newschool]

hey guys quick update here. the motherboard or system temperature is indeed the NB temp (at least for gigabyte).

Mine was high at 42C because the HR-05 wasnt properly fixed. Now it is lower at 34C. And if my fans run at 12V it goes lower.

Btw Im getting the HR-05 IFX, simply for the better retention system. The plastics pins on the HR-05 (non-IFX) are the same weak things as on the stock NB HS.

[KansaKilla]

hey guys quick update here. the motherboard or system temperature is indeed the NB temp (at least for gigabyte).

Mine was high at 42C because the HR-05 wasnt properly fixed. Now it is lower at 34C. And if my fans run at 12V it goes lower.

Folding away at 401 FSB and 3208 MHz, my motherboard temp is 29C right now, each core is at 63C on full load (the corrected temp, corroborated with coretemp some-version-or-another) and the cpu temp is reporting 47C. I've got a Ninja Rev. B on the cpu. Using Speedfan 4.33 with uploaded configuration from the website (some user's config file for one of the other GA-P35 boards from Feb 2, but I suspect the sensors are all the same in this series).

[newschool]

29C only? What is the cooler on your NB

[mcv]

I think I'll buy the DS3. If I understand correctly, it has a slightly larger NB heatsink. I hope that helps, and if it doesn't, I guess I'll just add a better NB heatsink later.

The DS3 has a couple of other features that I like, like DES, Ultra Durable 2 (the DS3L is the only one that doesn't have this), and 2 extra SATA slots. Which makes me wonder why people like the DS3L so much. The DS3 is barely more expensive where I plan to buy it (although that could be a rev 1.0 instead of rev 2.1 ofcourse...)

[smilingcrow]

It is something else not the NB temperature, it is more like the system temperature. I read somewhere that the sensor is installed at the end of the x16 PCI-E slot
MCH and ICH also have a DTS just like CPUs but you can only check the temperatures choosing Intel QST for smart fan control

I did a search on QST and Intel offer more control and monitoring with their business orientated chipsets; it sounds impressive.
Nvidia are pushing an open standard for monitoring and control of many aspects of a PC that would be equally useful for over-clockers, SilentPC lovers and eco PC users. It’s called Enthusiast System Architecture (ESA) and hopefully this will take off and be supported by Intel and AMD. There’s an article about it on Anandtech.

[newschool]

all the "D" models from gigabyte are ultra durable.

the DS3L has 4 phase power design and doesnt have raid. true the ds3p have larger nb heatsink but its like 40$ more. just buy a better aftermarket from thermalright..

and btw smilingcrow its been kinda a long time since intel is offering high quality monitoring software for is own motherboard, what is new is the capability to overclock because you had to pay 250$ just to be able to o/c a lil bit intel's mobos

[Conroy]

all the "D" models from gigabyte are ultra durable.

Gigabyte says the DS3L is "ultra durable" while the DS3R and DS3P have "Ultra Durable 2". I'm not sure what the difference is, but the DS3P has a pipe between 2 heat sinks. The "ultra durable 2" marketing description also has more fancy pictures than the "ultra durable".

[mcv]

I believe the DS3L only has solid capacitors around the CPU, whereas the UD2 boards use them everywhere. Or maybe they lack the cooler mosfets. At least one of the features that's needed to make it UD2 is missing, anyway.

I also think one of the versions of the DS3P does not have a heatpipe. I think rev 1.1 or something, but again, I'm not sure.

[newschool]

I had a P965-DS3 and I have a P35-DS3L both have solid capacitors evrwhere.

the P35-DS3L is great btw, im actually at 9x333mhz = 3ghz with a e4300 @ only 1.327V. its that easy.