Buy 780G mobo now, or wait for 790GX (or something else)?

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Andru
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Buy 780G mobo now, or wait for 790GX (or something else)?

Post by Andru » Sat May 10, 2008 11:50 pm

Hello,

I'm building a low power computer. I'm not going to the low extreme, I'd just like it to be under 50W or so when idle (in Windows XP).

My needs:
* using Windows XP (no need to switch to Vista just yet)
* Web surfing mostly
* Occasional gaming (*old* 3D games only, so a good IGP is sufficient)
* Light Photoshopping

...so, I don't need a power rig. Basically, I need low power (idle wattage) with enough 3D performance for older 3D games (e.g. Thief, Dungeon Siege, Ultima V: Lazarus). I'm a retro gamer so most games I play are 2D anyway.

Currently I have an AMD X2 3800+ with an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro (3DMark06 score: 800), and 3D performance-wise it fits my bill perfectly. I'd still like to "upgrade" to an IGP solution.

Here's what I have in mind for the new setup:

* AMD Athlon 64 X2 4450E
* Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H
* some 2 x 2GB DDR2-800 kit (one that doesn't require higher voltages to operate)
* one HDD (going for WD GP most likely)
* a DVD+-RW drive
* one or two fans (120mm)

The setup above would have a 3DMark06 score of about 1500 (I assume), so it would be quite sufficient for my gaming needs.

I assume that such a setup would work quite OK with a PicoPSU 120w. I am not going to overclock, but I might undervolt if I get it working with RMClock or CrystalCPUthingy. Low(ish) idle voltage/power is a MUST though.

I'm contemplating whether to get a motherboard with the AMD 780G chipset or wait for the 790GX chipset... or something else(?)

Is there any reason *not* to buy an AMD 780G-based motherboard now? Does the 790GX have some significant new features? Or is there something else interesting on the horizon? I've tried Googling, but information seems scarce...(?) What about upcoming Intel chipsets?

I'd go for a NVIDIA HybridPower solution (for the "switch-the-discrete-gfx-card-off-completely"-feature so I could buy a gfx card later if needed) but the HybridPower only supports high-end NVIDIA cards --- and I'm not going to buy a 9800GTX just to play several years old 3D games... Otherwise, the HybridPower is a very interesting concept, I'm wondering if AMD has something similar coming up?

Any insight would be most welcome :-)

EDIT: I'm thinking of an AMD setup --- but I have nothing against Intel, it's just that I have the impression that Intel CPUs are not an option if I want a low power setup with decent IGP performance (i.e. 780G or similar) ???

Thanks,
Andru

amyhughes
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Post by amyhughes » Sun May 11, 2008 12:37 am

That system will work well with a pico PSU and will idle in the low 30's if you undervolt. Full load will be at most mid 60's. How do I know? I built that system without a hard drive. See "undervolted, stock speed" in this post:

viewtopic.php?t=47842

I didn't bother with RMClock or similar. I just set a voltage that works under load. There's at most 4W to be saved with fancy power management.

My only 3D experience with that system is with Second Life. I was pleased with the framerate I got, but it of course didn't compare to my E8400 system with 8600GT.

Andru
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Location: Finland

Post by Andru » Sun May 11, 2008 1:59 am

Thanks for the confirmation amyhughes!

I've actually read that thread of yours (and several others on the 780G subject), and am quite confident the setup I'm planning would work very nicely.

I apologize --- what I failed to do in my original post is to keep it simple (I tend to blabber all sorts of irrelevant stuff, sorry :oops: )


I actually have only one question:

Is there something much better just around the corner or should I go for a 780G board?

By better I mean any of these:

A) significantly better (lower) idle wattage (not likely anytime soon I guess, and I'm not going for Atom or anything similar)

B) significantly better IGP 3D performance (Intel perhaps?)

C) more intelligent "shutdown-the-discrete-graphics-card-completely" concept (à la HybridPower)


I'm itching to build a new machine soonish, the Antec PSU died on my Radeon 9800 Pro + AMD Athlon X2 3800+ setup --- and this 600MHz Duron feels kinda sluggish :wink: ...

Thanks,
Andru

Mariner
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Post by Mariner » Mon May 12, 2008 2:54 am

Andru wrote:
By better I mean any of these:

A) significantly better (lower) idle wattage (not likely anytime soon I guess, and I'm not going for Atom or anything similar)

B) significantly better IGP 3D performance (Intel perhaps?)

C) more intelligent "shutdown-the-discrete-graphics-card-completely" concept (à la HybridPower)

Regarding B), I'd say there is practically no chance of Intel IGPs outperforming the RS780 in the near future. Their current graphics stuff is pretty weak and the fact that they are looking towards 'Larrabee' for higher-performance graphics in the future leads me to guess things won't change much in this department any time soon. Their license using PowerVR might have meant this was different but all the news I've heard currently seems to be that this technology is just used for Poulsbo (the chipset for Atom) at present.

Can't say much about A) or C) I'm afraid as I've not been paying a great deal of attention to these in recent months!

Andru
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Location: Finland

Post by Andru » Mon May 12, 2008 9:30 am

Mariner wrote:
Andru wrote:
By better I mean any of these:

A) significantly better (lower) idle wattage (not likely anytime soon I guess, and I'm not going for Atom or anything similar)

B) significantly better IGP 3D performance (Intel perhaps?)

C) more intelligent "shutdown-the-discrete-graphics-card-completely" concept (à la HybridPower)

Regarding B), I'd say there is practically no chance of Intel IGPs outperforming the RS780 in the near future. Their current graphics stuff is pretty weak and the fact that they are looking towards 'Larrabee' for higher-performance graphics in the future leads me to guess things won't change much in this department any time soon. Their license using PowerVR might have meant this was different but all the news I've heard currently seems to be that this technology is just used for Poulsbo (the chipset for Atom) at present.

Can't say much about A) or C) I'm afraid as I've not been paying a great deal of attention to these in recent months!
OK, so we can rule out B).

I don't think A) is going to happen either (with Atom, the performance is just not there).

C) Might happen only if NVIDIA pulls its head out of its ass (but unfortunately it's too deep in there for a sudden pop-out).

So, in conclusion I'm going for a 780G board right now :)

Thanks for all the input!

Andru
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Location: Finland

Post by Andru » Tue May 13, 2008 9:02 am

Hold my horses...

I found something interesting about the upcoming AMD 790GX chipset... here's a quote from Anandtech's ''NVIDIA 780a: Integrated Graphics and SLI in One'' article:

However, AMD does not offer Hybrid power capabilities nor does the flagship 790FX offer integrated graphics capabilities. We will have to wait a few more months for the AMD 790GX to arrive for those two features.
Does this mean the 790GX chipset will have a feature similar to NVIDIA's HybridPower? Certainly seems so ... now, either my Googling skills are abysmal or the information is really scarce on this.

Anyone have further info pertaining to this?

alleycat
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Post by alleycat » Tue May 13, 2008 9:36 am

http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_8300mgpu.html

From Intel there is the upcoming G45 chipset with X4500HD. Apparently they will release a mATX board soon called DG45ID.

jhhoffma
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Post by jhhoffma » Tue May 13, 2008 9:42 am

The 790GX will have Hybrid CrossFire X which will allow the chipset to turn off discrete GPUs during 2D-only work and use integrated GPU instead.

Though for the games you listed, the 780G will be plenty.

Spare Tire
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Post by Spare Tire » Tue May 13, 2008 2:02 pm

Hybrid crossfire doesn't turn off the discrete gpu, at least according the marketting material, it would be called powerxpress. Hybrid crossfire is just crossfire between igp and discrete gpu.

Andru
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Location: Finland

Post by Andru » Tue May 13, 2008 10:43 pm

Spare Tire wrote:Hybrid crossfire doesn't turn off the discrete gpu, at least according the marketting material, it would be called powerxpress. Hybrid crossfire is just crossfire between igp and discrete gpu.
Yep that's what I've gathered, too. And I'm not interested in Hybrid CrossFire at all (I consider it pretty useless).

Both the ATI website and Wikipedia state that PowerXpress is for mobile chipsets only :cry: ... this really confirms that I can 'safely' go for a 780G board right away.

Thanks everyone! :)

jhhoffma
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Post by jhhoffma » Wed May 14, 2008 6:34 am

I'm surprised Tkpenalty hasn't opined here as he did on this site (which is where I got my info):

http://www.techpowerup.com/57960/First_ ... tured.html

Andru
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Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 2:02 am
Location: Finland

Post by Andru » Wed May 14, 2008 7:09 am

jhhoffma wrote:I'm surprised Tkpenalty hasn't opined here as he did on this site (which is where I got my info):

http://www.techpowerup.com/57960/First_ ... tured.html
Yep thanks jjhoffma, I read that too.

To be honest, I'm not sure whether 790GX will be a better choice for me or not (information seems contradictory), but I'm going for the 780G motherboard anyway. If I ever need the 3D power I can always upgrade to a more suitable solution.

For now, the 780G IGP 3D performance will suffice for me. Besides, I'd have to consider something else than my trusty old PicoPSU if I wanted to get a discrete gfx card on the side...

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