Asus P5Q-EM Mobo quick review..

[ST]

Just transferred most of my system over from a Asus P5E-VM HDMI (G35) setup to this new G45 based board. Very impressed thus far. Voltage is selectable down to .85V, so great news for undervolters (like me)! Haven't tested whether Speedfan will work with the onboard fan controls yet, but Q-Fan seems to be working well in the interim. Haven't had a chance to playback BD movies yet, but will soon once SP1 is installed. Thus far, seems Asus learned from the many shortcomings of its previous board....

[Scrooge]

Would you mind posting what you find to be the differences? Most importantly, to me, is it as stables as the P5E-VM HDMI? I've used four of those for family computers and haven't heard a single complaint. I've been hoping the G45 version would be as good, and you seem to hint that it's better, but I've had no complaints about the original.

[ryboto]

do you have any way to test power consumption? I'm really curious how much more power the G45 board uses vs the G35.

[Mats]

I've read complaints about this mobo not being able to work with at least some graphic cards, is this still an issue?

[Aris]

A reviewer on newegg said that PCIe 16x 2.0 graphics cards dont work right on this board. Do you have any way to verify that?

Though he did mention that with the 8800gt, an older nvidia driver made it work right, so this may actually be a driver issue. Either way, it seems people with newer Nvidia pcie 2.0 graphics cards are having issue's with this board.

[ST]

I can't refute/confirm the reports of pci-e 2.0 video cards working or not, because i use the onboard gpu (seriously, why would you get a g45 mobo if you're going not to use the igp?).

However, after much more tinkering around, I will say that there is only a slight incremental upgrade from G35 boards. I'm still having some issues with VC1 BD playback stuttering, and for the life of me, can't get speedfan to work with the board (had to resort to Asus bios controlled "q-fan". The only advantage it has thus far then is the ability to massively undervolt (down to .85V) for a quieter / cooler system (i've only gone down to .98V on my Q9300 while debugging some other issues).

I'll try to get some readings from my Kill-A-Watt, but keep in mind I have 6 HDD's so the figures might be somewhat skewed.

[smilingcrow]

seriously, why would you get a g45 mobo if you're going not to use the igp?

Because it’s a mATX board or because you have the IGP as a backup.

[ryboto]

I'll try to get some readings from my Kill-A-Watt, but keep in mind I have 6 HDD's so the figures might be somewhat skewed.

Well, will you at least be able to provide numbers for both G45 and G35 with the same hardware? 6 hard drives or not, if both boards have the same components installed, it still gives us a good idea of the differences.

[Aris]

seriously, why would you get a g45 mobo if you're going not to use the igp?

Because it’s a mATX board or because you have the IGP as a backup.

Also because its the best intel chipset to date on a micro atx board. They dont put the non integrated graphics version on micro atx boards.

[ryboto]

seriously, why would you get a g45 mobo if you're going not to use the igp?

Because it’s a mATX board or because you have the IGP as a backup.

Also because its the best intel chipset to date on a micro atx board. They dont put the non integrated graphics version on micro atx boards.

Well, DFI did, and I owned the board for 2 weeks, it was nice, but being a DFI the BIOS was a bit cumbersome.

[mtp]

I have had my P5Q-EM for a couple of weeks now. Overall, I am reasonably happy with it, but I do have some issues.

Fan Control:

Asus Q fan seems to work well - it is easy to set profiles in the AIsuite application. But there are some shortcomings.

1. The bios reports all CPU fan speeds below 600 RPM as an error. At Post, my fan is at about 450 RPM and this shows up as an error (requiring that either I hit F1 to continue the boot process, or permananently disable the RPM monitoring.

2. The P5Q-EM only accepts PWM fans for the CPU. There is no way to vary the voltage (unlike on the Gigabyte boards).

3. The chassis fan, only supports voltage regulation (no PWM) and therefore can not be used with Speed fan.

4. The Power fan supports neither PWM or voltage regulation.

Ai Probe seems to be a bit buggy. Every so often, it will report the CPU temp at exactly 100C (and get stuck there - triggering warnings)

Temperature readings:

I have had some strange experiences with temp on this board (and am currently working with Asus to try to resolve the problem). First let me say that it seems to be Q6600 Rev G0 related as the problem does not exist when I use an E2180, and does exist when I have tried 2 different Q6600 rev G0s (which work normally in my other Gigabyte MB).

The problem is that the CPU temp sensor reads about 20C too low most of the time (80%). This means that at boot the CPU temp will show as 7C (cores at about 30C according to everest or corte temp). However, sometimes (20% of the time), the CPU temp will read too high by about 15C. And every so often (although not recently), it will get stuck at 100C.

This makes it very difficult to set up the system with variable fan speeds.

This is not a huge problem, as I have set up a profile that keeps the cpu and chassis fans at a constant speed (a little bit louder than I would like, but tolerable) that ensures that the core and MB temps remain reasonable.

MB temps (North bridge) are a bit high, especially with the 0202 bios. When I changed to the 0402 bios they dropped by 3C to about 44C.

Overclocking:

The board seems to overclock reasonably well (not that I have pushed it anywhere near its limits (I went from FSB 1066 to 1333) , but I have a couple of concerns.

First, it is very aggressive in setting voltages in auto mode. I found that I could manually set Vcore .15V lower than it was setting.

Second, the GPU seems to stop working at FSBs above 1333. Perhaps I would need to up the voltage (not something I want to do).

Third, memory performance is only ok. Using the same Mushkin PC28000 ram, I could get the same timings (5-5-5-12) at 1066 as with my ga-p35-ds4, but at a higher voltage (2.1V vs 2.05V). Also, with the gigabyte MB, I could get a performance level of 3, while with the Asus, I can only get a level 6. This results in significantly lower transfer rates.

Video performance.

Seems to be generally good, although I am not using HDMI. I can not tell the difference between the IGP and the 8600GT that I was using in my old rig.

However, there are some issues. With the first video driver that I used, I would get occaisional flashes of black followed by a message saying that the video driver has stopped responding and had recovered. When I updated the driver, this problem has seemed to go away, but at the expense of a huge increase in CPU usage. (Which was resolved by disabling persistence).

For me, the MB is good, but could be a lot better, if

1. temp problems resolved
2. asus software less buggy
3. power saving software works when overclocked
4 memory preformance improved
5. fan controls support PWM and voltage regulation
6. Automatic voltage settings less agressive
7. Use bios settings rather than jumpers to enable MB options (wake-up, etc)

Overall, I would give the board 7 out of 10. I am considering RMAing it and trying the GA-EG45M-DS2H.

Mark

First, on

4. The power fan can not be regulated

[wodenx]

Overall, I would give the board 7 out of 10. I am considering RMAing it and trying the GA-EG45M-DS2H.

thanks for this *great* review. i am hesitating betweent his board and the gigabyte - curious to know why you think the gigabyte may be better.
thanks
-chris

[Aris]

so i take it you dont have a pci-e 2.0 video card to try in it?

All your other quibbles i doubt id even notice. I dont ever use motherboard fan headers. I would just disable fan monitoring all together. Also i never pay any attention to onboard temps, they have always been unreliable. This is nothing new.

Also i think most people here are more likely to either stick with stock performance settings, and possibly undervolt/underclocking rather than how well it overclocks.

If the Pci-e 16x slot works fine, it looks like a perfect 10/10 for me.

[ST]

Thanks for sharing, this is helping me decide whether i want to keep it or wait for the upcoming nvidia 9300/9400 MC7A mobos. BTW> You never mentioned anything on BD playback? How was it for you and what software did you use? See my experiences inline with your comments

Asus Q fan seems to work well - it is easy to set profiles in the AIsuite application. But there are some shortcomings.

I did not have nay issues with Q-fan at all with low RPM readings. I am using 3x120mm YL fans + 1x140mm YL fan all connected to the chassis fan header.

Temperature readings:

If you are familiar with Asus boards, their temp readings are never to be trusted, especially for the CPU. I would highly advise you to use Speedfan or Realtemp readings instead and calibrate according to your specific CPU. I would also advise you to not use any Asus software, they've always been known to be inaccurate or buggy.

Overclocking:

I stopped overclocking a while ago, but instead i undervolt and underclock. I'm very happy to say that I can run my Q9300 at .90V now, whereas before my Asus G35 board was running at 1.08 at a minimum. I also like the fact that Vdroop has essentially been eliminated, so no need for vmods to the board like before.

Video performance.

I use HDMI exclusively connected to my Samsung 52" 750 TV and it works great. I still have some occasional glitches with BD VC1 playback, otherwise it's perfect for HTPC usage (which it is designed for). I never had blackouts either like you experienced.

For me, the MB is good, but could be a lot better, if

1. temp problems resolved
2. asus software less buggy
3. power saving software works when overclocked
4 memory preformance improved
5. fan controls support PWM and voltage regulation
6. Automatic voltage settings less agressive
7. Use bios settings rather than jumpers to enable MB options (wake-up, etc)

Overall, I would give the board 7 out of 10. I am considering RMAing it and trying the GA-EG45M-DS2H.

Besides 1,2,5 I have not experienced any of the other issues you highlighted. Powersavings (EPU) worked fine for me when I manually overclocked to 2.9GHz, and I never use auto voltage....always manual, because the BIOS can never account for all the CPU voltage permutations out there. Lastly, not sure what you mean by jumpers for wake up, as my S1 states work fine. For me, I would it at 8/10 with the main drawback now on the VC1 playback (but I think that's more software related).

[ST]

Okay, for those that asked for comparative G35 vs. G45 numbers:

Asus P5E-VM HDMI
Scythe Ninja Rev. A (fanless)
OCZ 4GB DDR2-800
Seasonic 600W PSU
3X WD 1TB GP
Lite On Blu Ray
3 YL 120mm Fans

Intel Wolfdale Core 2 Duo Xeon E3110 (E8400 equivalent) (3.0GHz stock)
3.0GHz (1.072V) -> 75W Idle @ 27C
3.0GHz (1.072V) -> 123W (full OCCT) @ 44C

Intel Yorkfield Core 2 Quad Q9300 45nm Core 2 Quad CPU (2.5GHz stock)
3.0GHz (1.088V) -> 82W Idle @ 42C
3.0GHz (1.088V) -> 130W (full OCCT) @ 55C

Intel Yorkfield Core 2 Quad Q9450 45nm Core 2 Quad CPU (2.66GHz stock)
3.0GHz (1.072V) -> 82W Idle @ 53C
3.0GHz (1.072V) -> 141W (full OCCT) @ 68C

Asus P5Q-EM
Scythe Ninja Rev. A (fanless)
G.Skill 4GB DDR2-800
Antec 650W PSU
4X WD 1TB GP / 1 160GB IDE
Lite On Blu Ray
4 YL 120mm Fans


Intel Yorkfield Core 2 Quad Q9300 45nm Core 2 Quad CPU (2.5GHz stock)
3.0GHz (1.08V) -> 80W Idle @ 42C
3.0GHz (1.08V) -> 129W (full OCCT) @ 55C

Intel Yorkfield Core 2 Quad Q9300 45nm Core 2 Quad CPU (2.5GHz stock)
2.3GHz (0.96V) -> 71W Idle @ 40C
2.3GHz (0.96V) -> 108W (full OCCT) @ 48C

So G45 seems to draw less power than G35, even if i have more drives/fans running then before.

[mtp]

@ST

I have not tried BD playback - machine is primarily a silent work machine.

As for the Q fan comments. Perhaps I was not clear. Q fan works well even at low fan speeds. The problem I tried to reference was at the bios level. If the fan speed is below 600 RPM at POST, the bios will give a fan speed warning (unless monitoring is disabled).

With regard to the temperature readings. I agree with your comments about ASus software and using for example, speedfan to set fan settings. The problem I have is that the temp reported is not stable - it is either 20C too low, 15C too high, or exactly 100C. This occurs in Everest, speedfan, and the asus software. I am trying to resolve this with asus, who seem to think it is a bios problem for the moment....

Overclocking.

I agree with you - however, I found that my bios CPU voltage settings were not respected when load line calibration is enabled (which seems to be required to address the VDroop issue). I had trouble keeping the voltages down and resolving VDroop issues at the same time.

Video performance:

No problem since switching to the new driver (and I never had any problems when the FSB was not overclocked).

EPU.

I get a message saying that EPU does not work in overclock mode.

Jumpers : see page 1-29 in the user manual that talks about USB and keyboard wakeup.

@Aris

No, I do not ave any PCI 2.0 video.

@wodenz

I have no real reason to believe the gigabyte is better. I have more experience with Gigabyte (GA-P35-DS4 and GA-P35-DQ6).

based on these experiences The gigabyte boards have the following benefits:

1. No temp measurement problems
2. Both chassis amd CPU fan headers support PWM and voltage regulation
3. Higher memory transfer rates
4. Better support
5. No jumpers to configure on the MB - all can be set at the bios
6. Easier to set voltages (stable)

But they also have their drawbacks:

1. Can not set custom fan speed profiles (must use speedfan)
2. DPC latency (at least with the p35 boards)
3. Overclocking software is buggy to the point of being unusable

At the end of the day, the Asus board seems to work fine - I guess I am anal when it comes to fan speeds.

[ST]

....If the fan speed is below 600 RPM at POST, the bios will give a fan speed warning (unless monitoring is disabled).

This is normal operations for Q-Fan since it's inception 5-6 years ago. I think you can change the RPM limit via PC Probe II somewhere, if i remember correctly.

....This occurs in Everest, speedfan, and the asus software. I am trying to resolve this with asus, who seem to think it is a bios problem for the moment....

This is not an Asus specific problem per se. The problem stems from Intel's ambiguity with their TDP ratings for Core 2 Duo / Quad CPUs (non-existent) thus each respective software is implementing their own formula to derive at these figures. The most accurate to date is from RealTemp
which reports distance from Tj max, the only parameter that Intel denotes and which matters the most. I don't even bother with most software and corrected Speedfan's readings to calibrate with RealTemps (typically -5C less for Core 2 Quads).

I agree with you - however, I found that my bios CPU voltage settings were not respected when load line calibration is enabled (which seems to be required to address the VDroop issue). I had trouble keeping the voltages down and resolving VDroop issues at the same time.

I understand what you are seeing now. The "VDropp" Issue isn't really one at all. It was made according to Intel specs to ensure that during transient load, the VCore wouldn't overshoot, because these low voltage 45nm CPU's weren't as resilient to previous parts. Unfortunately, everyone's implementation differed significantly, but Asus new "line load calibration" essentially negates this and keeps it at a fixed value for overclockers like yourself because it lessens the delta of overvolting between static and dynamic loads.

I get a message saying that EPU does not work in overclock mode.

Jumpers : see page 1-29 in the user manual that talks about USB and keyboard wakeup.

I'll have to look into these again, as I use these on a very limited base

[ryboto]

So G45 seems to draw less power than G35, even if i have more drives/fans running then before.

Thats great to know, hopefully when I get my board tonight I'll see similar results.

[ST]

G45 review up at Anandtech: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/sh ... spx?i=3417

Compares G35, G45 as well as Asus , GigaByte, SuperMicro, and Intel mobos as well!

Now this is a hilarious quote:

Nothing conjures up more fright in the labs than watching the fire control system go off with a dozen systems running or having to spend more time testing the Intel DG45ID. All right, it is not quite that bad but let’s just say during our initial conversations with Intel we suggested the board might be better suited as a poolside serving tray than a mainstay component in our HTPC.

And for the summary:

At this point, our favorite G45 board is the ASUS P5Q-EM based on its flexibility to provide the basis for a HTPC, SOHO, or SFF system. Of course, it is also the most expensive board in our group but for those who value quality, support, and the capability for this board to be utilized in a variety of ways then we believe the price differential is worth it.

The Gigabyte GA-EG45M-DS2H board certainly deserves attention but only for HTPC or SOHO activities. This board has a split personality. The feature set, BIOS options, and component selection indicate a board that could go toe to toe with the ASUS in an SFF system while providing an equally pleasing customer experience in a HTPC/SOHO environment. However, Gigabyte decided not to provide a video card expansion option via the PCIe 2.0 x16 capable MCH and instead provides PCIe 1.1 x4 capability off the ICH. This limits the board from being used in a SFF system.

The Super Micro C2SEA is our only ATX based board along with DDR3 capability. The board is priced competitively with the uATX boards, but the current cost of DDR3 might turn away a few buyers. That is a real shame as this board offered excellent performance within the group and best-in-class power consumption numbers. Stability was just incredible and the board ran everything we could throw at without ever whimpering. If you want a set it up and forget about it system, then this is the board for you.

Now the two problem children, you know, the ones that you just want to love even though they frustrate you to no end. Frustration, that single word describes our experiences with the Intel DG45ID uATX and to a certain degree the DG45.