Power Supply Advise Please!

SnooP · Post by **SnooP** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 3:46 am

Excellent post as usual MikeC

hats off

I'd still be slightly skeptical about recommend the seasonic unit, particularly if the user plans on overclocking, based on Bjorn3d Review. The antec truecontrol 2 550w (dual 12V rail) psu just shuts down when running FEAR on 7800gtx 512mb (suggesting 20A current limiter has been tripped - given the precision the reviewer could do it), but works perfectly fine with the older single rail EPS 550. Of course if the seasonic unit is actually a single rail psu, with no 20A current limiters well all the better

burebista · Post by **burebista** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:33 am

What can I say after MikeC? Only that our unique Seasonic reseller made a test with an Seasonic S-12 330 and a Venice 3000+ @ 2.88 GHz, X1900XTX @ 760/890, DFI LP nF4, 2X256MB BH-5 @ 263Mhz 2-2-2-5 3.7V, WD 80GB JB, 4 fans 80mm

and it works flawless.

He said that S-12 330 is his new love.

Bottom line I think that a Seasonic S-12 500 should handle CrustyDemon_R1's system in real life, but maybe not in stress testing.

SnooP · Post by **SnooP** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:11 pm

Should get him to post his results (pics of computer + benchmarks) over at dfi-street. That'll stir up a few people there

student · Post by **student** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 3:03 pm

Some quality posts, that I'm learning a lot from.

I will get my head around them properly this weekend, when I can spare a morning or afternoon. In the meantime, I found this article:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1 ... 905,00.asp

They had system shut down problems playing games using:

1) A Silverstone 600W SLi certified PSU which I took to be this:
http://www.silverstonetek.com/products-60f.htm
Which can supply 42A to the +12v rails.

then they tried...

2) Thermaltake PurePower SLI certified 680W PSU which may be the 2.01 version:
http://www.gruntville.com/reviews/PSUs/ ... /page2.php
Which can supply 38A to the +12V rails

but the SLi certified bit leads me to think that its the 2.2 version:
http://www.thermaltake.com/2005/purepow ... /w0049.htm
Which can supply 52A to the +12V rails.

If it is the 2.2 version, LORD (or maybe a bit of weekend research and a spcr forum discussion) help anyone thinking about X1900 Xfire or 7800GTX SLI... unless their bank balance is fat enough to get what extremetech finally resorted to for a stable system:

PcPowerAndCooling TURBO-COOL® 850 SSI
http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/ ... how=T85SSI

Compddd · Post by **Compddd** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:54 pm

I have a simliar system to crusty I believe, and this 430W S12 handles it on BF2 everything maxed for hours. Im still going to upgrade to the S12 600 tho because I believe the 430 is being taxed a little too much, it gives off loud coil buzz during gaming.

Renegade87 · Post by **Renegade87** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:49 am

Sounds to me like CrustyDemon_R1 needs a PC Power & Cooling Turbo Cool 850SSI or even the 1KW model!

Probably the most important aspect of such a demanding system is to supply enough AMPERAGE to the 3 Rails. Especially the +12v Rail.
The PSU wattage calculator liked to previously does not calculate approximate Amperage loads on the Rails (as is so common with the many PSU calculators floating around on the web). Seeing as Takaman's site is down, here's another one I found. PSUCalcv1.82.xls This is pretty good. Hope it hepls you acurately calculate your Amperage loads.

Erssa · Post by **Erssa** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:01 am

Renegade87 wrote:Sounds to me like CrustyDemon_R1 needs a PC Power & Cooling Turbo Cool 850SSI or even the 1KW model!

Prepare to get flamed

.

Renegade87 · Post by **Renegade87** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:38 am

Erssa wrote:
Renegade87 wrote:Sounds to me like CrustyDemon_R1 needs a PC Power & Cooling Turbo Cool 850SSI or even the 1KW model!
Prepare to get flamed .

And why would that be?

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:17 am

And why would that be?

MikeC showed conclusively in the first page of this thread that an S12-600 would handle CrustyDemon's setup just fine; on a related note, the overestimation of what a particular setup will draw is endemic to the industry, with PSU manufacturers no doubt fuelling amateur enthusiasts unrealistic expectations in order to sell 0.5 or even 1kW PSU's.

Power Supply Fundamentals

Using the 600W PSU with this system is an example of incorrect, costly PSU sizing. It is practised most frequently by gaming enthsiasts who are encouraged to believe that greater power capacity is always better. Whether 480W, 550W or >600W PSUs are suitable for system that cannot possibly draw even 250W is a type of question asked almost daily in the SPCR Forums.

So, you see, your over-estimation of PC power needs is part of a wider negative phenomenon of PSU over-sizing. It is somewhat similar to the housewife who buys a 5-tonne SUV to go to Wal-Mart and back.

Erssa · Post by **Erssa** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:08 pm

jaganath wrote:
And why would that be?
...

What jaganath said. And also this is a silence orientated forum and those PCP&P PSUs are loud.

LOUISSSSS · Post by **LOUISSSSS** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:04 pm

yea OP might need 2 x 1k PCPC PSU's to power that system.

Renegade87 · Post by **Renegade87** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:27 pm

jaganath wrote:
And why would that be?
MikeC showed conclusively in the first page of this thread that an S12-600 would handle CrustyDemon's setup just fine; on a related note, the overestimation of what a particular setup will draw is endemic to the industry, with PSU manufacturers no doubt fuelling amateur enthusiasts unrealistic expectations in order to sell 0.5 or even 1kW PSU's.

Power Supply Fundamentals

Using the 600W PSU with this system is an example of incorrect, costly PSU sizing. It is practised most frequently by gaming enthsiasts who are encouraged to believe that greater power capacity is always better. Whether 480W, 550W or >600W PSUs are suitable for system that cannot possibly draw even 250W is a type of question asked almost daily in the SPCR Forums.
So, you see, your over-estimation of PC power needs is part of a wider negative phenomenon of PSU over-sizing. It is somewhat similar to the housewife who buys a 5-tonne SUV to go to Wal-Mart and back.

jaganath I definitely agree with you're assessment of the market trend of overestimating power requirements in an attempt to create a market where one might not otherwise exist, and I do realize that I am currently posting in the Silent PC Review Forums and not the [H]ardOCP Forum.

I am also the proud owner of a PC Power & Cooling Turbo Cool 510 Deluxe and realize that while being argueably the best performing PSU ( along with the many TC 510 variants) in it's output class, it does get loud. It is for that reason, that I just Purchased a new Seasonic S-12 600. The very PSU that is so highly regarded here and throughout the enthusiast community for it's power, efficiency, tight voltage regulation, and quietness of operation. This will be powering the DFI LANParty UT NF4 DR Expert mobo I'll rebuild my Rig with.

Apparently jaganath, you only consider points of view and articles which support yours and ignore all else. MikeC was not the only one to present an extensively researched opinion on this subject. Student also provided significant examples (from all over the web mind you) that support real world examples of the other side of your arguement. I have seen many examples to support both sides of this arguement. I guess it comes down to real world experience with your particular setup and trial and error. Personally, I prefer to get it right the 1st. time and not have to RMA anything so I don't generally "pussy-foot" around. Having had a 350w Antec take out a Dual PIII 733 mobo (Supermicro P3DRE) and one of the CPU's due to UNDERPOWERING the system a few years ago I do subscribe to the theory that more is better... within reason (especially financially) while trying to find a good balance between power & noise.

But back to my original reason for replying to this thread in the 1st place. I was basically trying to HELP Crusty determine what his approximate amperage needs would be at full load by linking to a PSU calculator that actually can provide rough amperage numbers at load. Which he most certainly will be pushing while playing his favorite games. After all, you don't buy a GeForce 7800 GTX 512MB if you're not a gamer.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to climb in my M1A2 Abrams Tank and head on down to the McDonalds Drive Thru for a Big Mac. Cheers!!

CrustyDemon_R1 · Post by **CrustyDemon_R1** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:16 pm

Thanks for your post everybody.

I have been so busy researching a DIY quiet liquid cooling system I've put the PS thinking aside.

So far I have in mind the S12-600 will be the way to go (Hoping it will suffice). The PcPowerAndCooling TURBO-COOL® 850 SSI is not sold in Australia and the PC Power and Cooling Turbo-Cool 1KW would be an overkill and both will be noisier than Seasonic.

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:02 am

I just Purchased a new Seasonic S-12 600. The very PSU that is so highly regarded here and throughout the enthusiast community for it's power, efficiency, tight voltage regulation, and quietness of operation. This will be powering the DFI LANParty UT NF4 DR Expert mobo

You are probably already aware of this, but there are incompatibility problems with the S12-500/600 and some DFI boards. Have a search in this forum, there's been a couple of threads about it, something to do with the DFI board requiring too much current on the +5Vsb line.

I appreciate that you were genuinely trying to help CrustyDemon, and I think that's one of the great things about SPCR, it has a helpful and constructive spirit, to help people make their rig the best it can be, and in this case a very high-powered PSU may actually be the sensible choice (although I find it hard to describe any rig requiring close to 1kW "sensible"

).

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to climb in my M1A2 Abrams Tank and head on down to the McDonalds Drive Thru for a Big Mac.

Renegade87 · Post by **Renegade87** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:32 am

jaganath wrote:
I just Purchased a new Seasonic S-12 600. The very PSU that is so highly regarded here and throughout the enthusiast community for it's power, efficiency, tight voltage regulation, and quietness of operation. This will be powering the DFI LANParty UT NF4 DR Expert mobo
You are probably already aware of this, but there are incompatibility problems with the S12-500/600 and some DFI boards. Have a search in this forum, there's been a couple of threads about it, something to do with the DFI board requiring too much current on the +5Vsb line.

I appreciate that you were genuinely trying to help CrustyDemon, and I think that's one of the great things about SPCR, it has a helpful and constructive spirit, to help people make their rig the best it can be, and in this case a very high-powered PSU may actually be the sensible choice (although I find it hard to describe any rig requiring close to 1kW "sensible" ).

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to climb in my M1A2 Abrams Tank and head on down to the McDonalds Drive Thru for a Big Mac.

Thanks for the heads up, but it was that very issue (which I only discovered after I had ordered the S-12 600) which prompted me to register here. I have actually read quite a bit on this particular subject here and at DFI Street and Extreme Systems Forums. It seems to me that the vast majority of these issues are with the other variants of the DFI NF4 boards (SLi/DR) and not so much the Expert. And the actual symptoms sound more memory related to me. But I'll keep digging.

Whatever the outcome, I'm keeping the S-12 600 as I've had it modded (Red UV Sleeved and Red UV Connectors)by FrozenCPU so it wasn't cheap. I expect to recieve it today and will check which revision it is (I hear Rev.3 of the S-12 series corrects these issues). If anything goes back, it'll be the DFI Expert. We'll see.

Sorry for side-tracking your thread Crusty. I wish you the best of luck with your build. When you finalize your hardware config, try that PSU calculator I linked to. It's pretty good.