Would Fortron Zen work in a low air flow case?

PSUs: The source of DC power for all components in the PC & often a big noise source.

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Erssa
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Would Fortron Zen work in a low air flow case?

Post by Erssa » Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:47 am

OK, ever since I switched my motherboard for Asus, I have been getting annoying coil whine on heavy loads. So I have started looking for alternatives for my nx-4090. I stumbled on Fortron Zen, it has open grill structure and I started thinking, if it would work in a Nexus Breeze case, where the only route to exhaust air is the psu. Could the bottom nexus fan and my 92mm zalman fan (~1300rpm) create enough pressure/air flow for the air to exhaust through the psu to keep it stable? Or would I be in serious risk of psu failure. My computer is fairly low power.

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What about, if I later chose to add a VGA with AC silencer? Would the direct exhaust of the silencer then remove all the pressure from the case, killing the airflow from the psu? Could this be negated with a small duct going from the intake fan directly to the rear of the psu?

For the record my idle temps now are 38c for CPU, 32c for HDD, 42c for the northbridge with my bottom nexus at ~700rpm, cpu fan at ~1300 and power supply fan at minimum(?), torture load temps aren't much higher (6c increase for the cpu as the cpu fan is temperature controlled) .

I know the SPCR has done an article on the 300W version, but there seems to be a 400W model too. And there are some differences and I am wondering just what kind of effect would they have.

300W
Input current: 3.5 amps maximum / 115 Vrms, 60 Hz.
2 amps maximum / 230 Vrms, 50Hz.
vs.
400W
Input current: 5 amps maximum / 115 Vrms, 60 Hz.
2.5 amps maximum / 230 Vrms, 50Hz.

What's kind of real world effect does this really have?

Looking from the specs there are some other differencies between 300W and 400W. 400W model seems to have 10A lower (20 vs 30) 3.3V line, 8A stronger (28 vs 20) 5V line and it seems to have one of it's 12V lines is 7A stronger (15 vs 8 ) compared to 300W model, both have one 14A 12V rail in addition.

Now I know one of the reasons Zen 300W hasn't been really popular with the P180 is that it has short cables. And since I haven't found any info on the 400W I assume it has the same set of cables as the 300W, but I think they should be enough for my current needs and possibly for the future needs as well.

jaganath
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Post by jaganath » Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:45 am

Only slight problem I can foresee is, if there is any coil whine in the Zen caused by interaction with your components, because it has such an open mesh design, you will definitely hear it. I had some coil buzz problems with my Zen, which is why I don't use it anymore.

Erssa
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Post by Erssa » Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:05 am

jaganath wrote:Only slight problem I can foresee is, if there is any coil whine in the Zen caused by interaction with your components, because it has such an open mesh design, you will definitely hear it. I had some coil buzz problems with my Zen, which is why I don't use it anymore.
I already have that whine with my current supply, and I don't think it could much worsen the situation. I listen to music most of the time I am on my computer anyway. And when the computer is idle, the whining is not present, so I can sleep in peace.

I was also thinking with the idea of reversing the airflow (bottom fan), it would create at least some kind of airflow to the psu and it would get fresh cool air when it would act as an intake. But this has many potential drawbacks, without fan bringing the air inside the case, the air would probably be pretty warm when it gets inside the case increasing the overall temperature. I am not even sure, if the heat would be evacuated through the bottom or if it would just linger and cycle through the top part of the case. So it could lower the psu temps and at the same time increase the case temps, probably not a good thing.

BrianE
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Re: Would Fortron Zen work in a low air flow case?

Post by BrianE » Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:37 pm

Erssa wrote:....but there seems to be a 400W model too. And there are some differences and I am wondering just what kind of effect would they have.

400W
Input current: 5 amps maximum / 115 Vrms, 60 Hz.
2.5 amps maximum / 230 Vrms, 50Hz.
Where have you seen this model (or an implication that it exists)?

Actually.... I wonder if that is just the different ratings between 115v and 230v inputs? I seem to remember the Silverstone fanless PSU had a higher wattage rating if you used 230v.

Erssa
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Re: Would Fortron Zen work in a low air flow case?

Post by Erssa » Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:07 am

BrianE wrote:Where have you seen this model (or an implication that it exists)?

Actually.... I wonder if that is just the different ratings between 115v and 230v inputs? I seem to remember the Silverstone fanless PSU had a higher wattage rating if you used 230v.
I have seen them listed in some etailers. Plus all the info I took was from Fortrons own website. It is listed among the ATX 2.01 psus.

BrianE
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Re: Would Fortron Zen work in a low air flow case?

Post by BrianE » Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:50 pm

Erssa wrote:I have seen them listed in some etailers. Plus all the info I took was from Fortrons own website. It is listed among the ATX 2.01 psus.
Ah, thanks! I found it (right at the end of the listing): http://www.fsp-group.com.tw/english/1_p ... &proid=328

I see it also takes 115v so hopefully it will slowly make its way out to more sellers someday. Its model number also makes sense: FSP400-60GNF

skromnibog
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Post by skromnibog » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:08 am

I have this FSP400-60GNF and I am waiting for Antec P180 which hopefully I will receive this week, so I will tell you about cable problems if they exist.
Certanly FSP heats up when there is no air flow even if the case is totaly opened, I just am not sure how much may I allow it to heat up before it becomes dangerous.
I tested noise in my system (listed below) when all fans are off and I hear whining which goes on my nervs. However I can not start system with hdd turned off, so I don't know if this noise is from hdd or from PS.

p.s. Oh yes, I will try to force hdd to sleep when I turn on the system :P

Zinj
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Zen in Low-Flow Case

Post by Zinj » Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:26 am

I'm running a 300w Zen in an X-Qpack case using a single, 12v Nexus 120mm fan blowing into the case and a Zalman 7000 al/cu cooler controlled via the motherboard, much as you suggest. My cpu/system temps in normal usage are 39/41 C as reported in BIOS. I've attached the Q-Pack temp sensors to the Zen and my hard drives, which report 33/43 C respectively. The Zalman fan is far and away the noisest thing going, and only ramps up when I start doing simulations or oomputation intensive stuff. I don't game, so onboard graphics work for me, including watching an occassional DVD. 300w has been more than enough, and my problems have actually been with the minimal 1amp requirement on the 12v rail. Hope this helps.

Zinj

nici
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Post by nici » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:25 pm

Have you found the Zen for sale in Finland? I've looked but so far no luck. I won't get another Phantom, so if i canät find the Zen ill ahve to go with the SilverStone.

Zinj
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Zen addendum

Post by Zinj » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:30 pm

Forgot two things. One, I'm using an Athlon 3200 (67w tdp). Second, the hard drive temps are high because I've got two drives running in a raid 1 mirror. In the Qpack these two drives sit immediately adjacent to one another, sandwiched between the case and the internal support structure holding them. Airflow is poor at best, and I have the thermal sensor sitting between the two drives to get the warmest possible readings.

Z

EsaT
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Post by EsaT » Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:25 pm

nici wrote:Have you found the Zen for sale in Finland? I've looked but so far no luck.
Even in central Europe availability seems to be quite bad.
http://www.geizhals.at/eu/a187883.html

Bluefront
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Post by Bluefront » Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:08 am

Damn these things are hard to find. I had to resort to Ebay to find my Zen...still waiting for it.

From looking at it, and from the SPCR article on it, I suspect the standard exhaust opening, plus the fact the ZEN is stuffed with heatsinks, would make this Zen unsuitable as the only exhaust point for your case, in it's standard mounting position. Just not enough airflow through the thing.

But there may be a solution.....How about mounting the Zen partially outside the case? Like the example in this thread. This could at least double the exhaust area of the PSU. Anyway...this is what I'm going to attempt when/if my Zen ever gets here.
:lol:

skromnibog
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Post by skromnibog » Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:42 am

I got my FSP400 from SCHIWI, and it works fine for now. I only don't like that I got in white bag, no box, no power cable, just PS with cables going out of it.

I managed to make hdd go to sleep and then no noise can be heard from the computer (open case and no fan running). Well maybe just a bit of whine with ear at distance of 10 cm and lots of concentration, but it is totaly silent in my apartment (my breathing is louder than outside noise) so I would say that my FSP400 is very quiet.

What equipment should I buy to check how much electric current is PS using (or maybe also some other home devices)?

Erssa
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Post by Erssa » Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:08 am

nici wrote:Have you found the Zen for sale in Finland? I've looked but so far no luck. I won't get another Phantom, so if i canät find the Zen ill ahve to go with the SilverStone.
Nope and I have stopped looking for one. Couple of months ago I misdiagnosed my memory failure as a psu failure (strangely my comp booted up with old DTK psu, but didn't boot with my nexus). So I bought a Seasonic S-12 and it turned out that it wasn't the psu after all... So now that I have a one extra psu, I have lost interest in the Zen. I'm currently thinking of selling the breeze case with the nexus and buying Antec Solo to go with the seasonic, but I'm actually worried that I would just end up with a noisier computer.

nici
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Post by nici » Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:49 pm

I find it hard to imagine the Solo resulting in a louder machine. IMHO it's better than the breeze in every way, having owned both a P150 and a Breeze.

skromnibog
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Post by skromnibog » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:49 am

Finaly my Antec P180 arrived and I can confirm that cables of FSP400 are long enough (have in mind that my graphic card is not very big and see about placement of atx connector on MSI K9Nu).
However if you connected everything and turn on the computer and then realize that hdd led is not connected correctly then it is frustrating to replug it in a correct way. Space is too tight in hole between two chambers. Beside this case seems very good.

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