Mod PSU with copper/alu heatsinks, quiter fan, hexmesh cover

PSUs: The source of DC power for all components in the PC & often a big noise source.

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jonjan
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Mod PSU with copper/alu heatsinks, quiter fan, hexmesh cover

Post by jonjan » Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:02 pm

I'm modding a PSU (Fortron FX700) and thinking about adding these copper ramsinks to the aluminum heatsinks that are inside the PSU.

I know this will void warranty, and I know PSU's are dangerous, and to wait 24+ hours after they're unplugged to open the cover.

My question is, since the aluminum heatsniks don't cause electrical problems... what are the limitations of where i can add copper heatsinks without causing electrical problems?

these are the copper sinks..
http://www.techzine.nl/uploaded/31617_7348c8f3.jpg

---
The mod will be:
-removing the top cover,
-replacing the cover with CrazyPC Hex Mesh,
-replacing the stock fan with a SilenX 120mm x 38mm 14dB 70cfm,
-AS Silver adhesiv'ing 3 big blue aluminum zalman northsinks to one of the PSU's heatsinks,
-adding swiftteck BGA copper sinks wherever possible

Jon
using computer for work to help us all.
http://www.helpusall.com
Last edited by jonjan on Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kizz
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Post by Kizz » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:47 am

I had a similar thought a while back, and also considered simply replacing the whole of the heatsink with a copper replica (but then gave up on it because it really wasn't worth the hassle). TBH I don't see any reason why adding more heatsinks would have an adverse effect, so long as you made sure they were securely fixed and weren't touching other components or blocking airflow. A few shouldn't hurt through.

lm
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Re: add swifteck BGA ramsinks to inside of PSU ?

Post by lm » Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:02 am

jonjan wrote: -replacing the stock fan with a SilenX 120mm x 38mm 14dB 70cfm,
Is it really possible to get 70cfm with just 14dB?

Bluefront
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Post by Bluefront » Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:21 am

The sound specs published by SilenX are lies......70cfm of airflow will be closer to 40db than 14db.

Will a 120mm fan that thick actually fit inside that psu?

jonjan
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copper heatsink PSU, my drawn planned mod, 70cfm at 14db

Post by jonjan » Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:35 am

Using copper heatsinks would be nice. SilenX has a PSU with copper heatsinks http://www.subzeropcs.com/silenx_600_wa ... eries.html it is 600watts and 14db, and 85% efficiency and active pfc... all great but it's also modular and not RoHS Compliant (I only get RoHS parts when possible, and prefer non-modular)

I have some diagrams of my PSU mod plans on my site http://www.helpusall.com/computer (56k users will have a long wait for loading the pics).. at the bottom, right above the Antec Phantom pics. I figure it should cool it just fine with that set-up. Already it's incredible that little slabs of aluminum can cool the PSU.

---

I think the SilenX 120mm 38mm 14db 70cfm fan may be a bit louder... 15 or 17db. As for cfm, i don't know how to measure it. The manufacturer told my friend, a reseller, that it can actually move up to 90cfm.
... I've explored about 6 different fans and can say that these do move a lot of air. the stock fan on the Fotron FX700 does move more air at maximum rpm, but i'm not sure how much cfm that is.

if you have an idea of how i can measure the cfm, or compare it, i'd be interested to share what i find... i'm curious what others here at spcr think. I could point it at a piece of paper a foot away, and take a pic of how much the paper is blown? or turn it facing upwards and hover a cd by the airflow strength.. and see how high it will push the cd... this idea seems easy to replicate for any fan?
I'll do this later today... fun experiement and could be a great way for us all to compare fan cfm's :)

as for the db level, i'll see how far away i need to be from the fan, sitting on a desk, till i can't hear it.


Jon
http://www.helpusall.com
help us all

jonjan
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Post by jonjan » Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:43 am

Bluefront wrote:The sound specs published by SilenX are lies......70cfm of airflow will be closer to 40db than 14db.

Will a 120mm fan that thick actually fit inside that psu?
Excellent :) I've heard before people say SilenX lied about their cfm and db numbers. I'm looking to explore this.. see what the real numbers are.

Do you have a good feel for cfm and db levels? Used a lot of other fans?

--

check my mod plans at http://www.helpusall.com/computer. I'm planning to put the fan on the outer side of the PSU, as opposed to the inner side. I have the PSU outside of any case, so size and shape isn't an issue.


Jon
http://www.helpusall.com

Bluefront
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Post by Bluefront » Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:20 am

The db rating of every fan goes up when the cfm is increased......more airflow equals more noise. Where the fans differ is the sounds of the fan motor. A good sleeve bearing fan such as a Yate Loon, will be quieter than the same fan with ball bearings at the same cfm. Some fan brands just have noisy motors, no matter the cfm

Look at the specs of a number of fans and you'll see this cfm/db relationship. Fan specs from SilenX and Thermaltake violate this relationship by a bunch, and are obviously false.

jonjan
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Post by jonjan » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:22 am

Bluefront wrote:The db rating of every fan goes up when the cfm is increased......more airflow equals more noise. Where the fans differ is the sounds of the fan motor. A good sleeve bearing fan such as a Yate Loon, will be quieter than the same fan with ball bearings at the same cfm. Some fan brands just have noisy motors, no matter the cfm

Look at the specs of a number of fans and you'll see this cfm/db relationship. Fan specs from SilenX and Thermaltake violate this relationship by a bunch, and are obviously false.
I'd be curious to send a SilenX (supposed) 14db 70cfm to you, to get your opinion. It sounds like you know fans a bit..

My take is that IF SilenX can make 14db 70-90cfm, then the more people who buy their fans, will help finance them to improve the technology even further.. which'll help us all.
and IF the fan is not 14db 70-90cfm, then it's helpful for us all to know it for sure, so we're not tricked, and so SilenX can't get away with it as easily.

I've heard a lot of bad comments about SilenX's claims of their db and cfm, but don't know if anyone who's said it has actually tried one recently, and compared it with other fans.
You already have a bias against SilenX so that's a good start... If you can give me your address some way, i'll send you one just so we can explore this.
And no i don't work for SilenX, or get any money or compensation from SilenX, or anyone else, and don't work for them or any reseller or anyone else. I do have a recently-made friend who is a reseller of a lot of cpu cooling items, but i don't get any pay or compensation or do any work for him.. i only buy from him, or call/email him to get his advice. I'm self employed in a totally unrelated area. ...just to make clear my motivations aren't a salesman or advertising... just wanting to explore this cfm:db seriously.

Jon
http://www.helpusall.com

disphenoidal
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Post by disphenoidal » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:47 am

I see on the bottom of your page you also have an Antec Phantom 500. Wouldn't it be easier/quieter to just use that instead of the Fortron 700 Watt supply?

To answer your question though, as long as the additional heatsinks don't touch anything, you should be fine. The hazard, as far as I know, is that there may normally be some voltage on the existing heatsinks, and you don't want to short anything out.

amjedm
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Post by amjedm » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:52 am

I have a SilenX 14dba 120mm fan gathering dust in a box. I did try it but it's not as quiet as the other fans I have (Yate Loons).

jonjan
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Post by jonjan » Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:21 am

thanks...

I was going to use the Phantom 500, but after a week it started making a cycling buzzing. Then I found I wanted an RoHS PSU (to have less exposure to toxics for me and my family), and also wanted a larger wattage PSU so the power signal would be cleaner. The Phantom was great tho, and I've not seen many other mentions of problems with buzzing.

With the heatsinks, I am considering putting all of them in-line with the existing heatsinks.. basically extending the existing ones. I was also considering to put a copper BGA sink sideways out from one of the existing sinks... and am curious if that might cause interference or arcing. The heatsinks obviously don't cause any problems, and I'm curious how much open space is needed around each capacitor, and in what direction.. So maybe it's safer to simply extend the existing sink, "in line" (just make them taller and of the same width)

----

yate loon as quieter, interesting. I have had 2 defective silenX's before, they both made a clicking sound. I've never had a yate loon, so I can't compare how the silenX's differ..

---

I made a webpage with my attempt to measure the cfm output of the silenX 120mm 38mm supposed 14db 72cfm...
http://www.helpusall.com/fantest.html

I couldn't find a way to measure the dB level. My environment is so quiet that any small sound is audible quite far away, so I'd have to be 10+ feet away before the SilenX would be silent. It seems too imprecise to use as a measurement.

Jon
http://www.helpusall.com

Bluefront
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Post by Bluefront » Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:55 am

jonjan.....I also have no good way to measure sound levels, none good enough for SPCR and it's members. I made a device to compare cfm levels of different fans. I can tell for instance that a Yate Loon @1000rpms has the same cfm as a Nexus at 1000rpms.......in fact most 120mm fans (25mm thick) have similar cfm at the same rpm.

The motor noise is a different matter......

No sense sending me a SilenX........maybe MikeC would be interested. Doubt it though. :)

jonjan
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Post by jonjan » Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:35 pm

oh well. I am curious, but the easy technique is simply seeing if the cfm and db is acceptable to my needs.

Back on the main topic....

I should have some photos soon of the PSU mod. I've already adhesived the copper BGA sinks, and some big-blue zalman northsink pieces. Tomorrow, I adhere the 3 big zalman's on the side, and then it's just a little bit of adjustments..

Jon
http://www.helpusall.com

larrymoencurly
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Post by larrymoencurly » Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:34 pm

jonjan wrote:thanks...

I was going to use the Phantom 500, but after a week it started making a cycling buzzing. Then I found I wanted an RoHS PSU (to have less exposure to toxics for me and my family),
How often do members of your family chew on PSU circuit boards? Because otherwise the only way anyone will be exposed to PSU toxins is if it gets engulfed in fire.

jonjan
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Post by jonjan » Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:24 pm

larrymoencurly wrote:
jonjan wrote:thanks...

I was going to use the Phantom 500, but after a week it started making a cycling buzzing. Then I found I wanted an RoHS PSU (to have less exposure to toxics for me and my family),
How often do members of your family chew on PSU circuit boards? Because otherwise the only way anyone will be exposed to PSU toxins is if it gets engulfed in fire.
Unfortunately it's not the case. According to several university and government studies, the toxic materials can be absorbed thru normal computer use. Also computers that are discarded leach these toxins into the ground, and often the ground water. This same ground water is connected to the water we use for drinking and bathing and to grow crops with.

Toxic substances have been measured as being present on the tops of monitors and other places.
Several toxics in many computer electronics exceed the limits for hazardous waste.
When you plug in a new PSU or monitor, can can clearly smell the components and toxins "gassing"... emitting particals that can be breathed in, or can settle on surfaces which are touched later.
After the gassing phase, the components are still there being heated up with each use, and they do continue to give off particals.


Here's an Associated Press story...

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/06/ ... 10297.html
"Toxic dust" found on computer processors and monitors contains chemicals linked to reproductive and neurological disorders, according to a new study by several environmental groups.


The survey, released by Silicon Valley Toxics Coalition, Computer TakeBack Campaign and Clean Production Action, is among the first to identify brominated flame retardants on the surfaces of common devices in homes and offices.

Electronics companies began using polybrominated diphenyl (PBDEs) and other flame retardants in the 1970s, arguing that the toxins prevent fires and cannot escape from plastic casings.

The study found that tiny particles of the toxic chemicals are leaching out, escaping into the air and attaching to ordinary dust on the computer equipment.

"This will be a great surprise to everyone who uses a computer," said Ted Smith, director of the Toxics Coalition.

"The chemical industry is subjecting us all to what amounts to chemical trespass by putting these substances into use in commerce. They continue to use their chemicals in ways that are affecting humans and other species."


Researchers collected samples of dust from dozens of computers in eight states, including university computer labs in New York, Michigan and Texas, legislative offices in California, and an interactive computer display at a children's museum in Maine. They tested for three types of brominated flame retardants suspected to be hazardous.

The most toxic piece of equipment discovered by the researchers was a new flat-screen monitor in a university in New York, implying that newer equipment isn't necessarily cleaner.

Penta- and octa-brominated diphenyl will be taken off the market by the end of the year. Environmental groups are demanding legislation that would ban deca-brominated diphenyl, too.

PBDEs, which have caused neurological damage in laboratory rats in numerous studies, are related to polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs), used in fire extinguishers, fluorescent lights and liquid insulators since the 1920s.

PCBs were outlawed in the 1970s, but the toxins don't erode and still persist in the environment.

The Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry, part of the US Department of Health and Human Services, and several other organisations have confirmed PCBs damage the brains of human foetuses.

Scientists have not directly correlated exposure to PBDEs with specific diseases or developmental impairment, although researchers are studying possible links between brominated flame retardants and autism.

Independent researchers who reviewed the new study say consumers shouldn't throw out their computers, and they needn't wear special gloves or minimise exposure to computer monitors.

There's no known way to remove dust-born PBDEs, so special wipes or sprays wouldn't significantly reduce chemical exposure.

Researchers for the Toxics Coalition believe that they would get similar results on televisions and other electronic equipment, but this study only tested computers.

The electronics industry has been reducing or eliminating some brominated flame retardants since the late 1990s, when European countries began prohibiting the sale of products that contain the chemicals.

Dell Inc and many other computer makers continue using a flame retardant related to PBDEs on circuit boards. They use lead, mercury and other toxins in central processing units and monitors. But Dell, along with Apple Computer Inc. and others, stopped using PBDEs in 2002.


------

it gives an idea what the reality is with other substances inside electronics too.

Here's some other info
http://www.moea.state.mn.us/stewardship/electronics.cfm
and it's easy to find other info on the web. Use .edu and .gov searches if you only trust edu and gov sources.


RoHS will help us a lot to reduce our exposure to, and absorbing, toxins... and the health problems they cause. Hopefully, RoHS is just a step towards even tighter tolerances of known and potential toxins..

Jon
http://www.helpusall.com
Last edited by jonjan on Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jonjan
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PICS of PSU Mod

Post by jonjan » Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:49 pm

It's not done yet, but thought I'd show some pics of the progress so far..



PSU - Fortron FX700-GLN Epsilon (700watts, RoHS and WEEE, 85% efficiency, active pfc)
..for in-closet silent top-end home-built PC used for the benefit of aid, education, 'enlightenment' efforts

Goals of Mod - Mod the cooling to be as silent as possible, and keep the PSU cool so it draws less electricty, delivers cleaner power, and heats up less.

By - Swap stock fan with quieter fan, add heatsinks, replace solid cover with mesh cover, allow fan to be changed without opening cover


Done so far:
-Drilled 2 holes to mount it on it's edge on top of a wooden case (shown in link below)
-Replaced fan plug to a 2pin-3pin adapter, extended to the side. So any 2 or 3-pin fan can be attached easily without removing the cover (I'll keep changing it to a quieter one, depending on load)

-Adhesived 6 swiftech BGA forged copper ramsinks to one of the 3 PSU aluminum heatsink slabs (Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive used for all adhesives)
-Adhesived 2 cut-off fins from a big blue Zalman northsink, to the middle PSU aluminum heatsink slab, and bent the fins for better heat dissipation
-Adhesived 3 big blue Zalman northsinks to the side of the 3rd PSU aluminum heatsink slab

Image

-Formed a cover from steel hex mesh
-Cut out spaces for the power cords and the 3 Zalman sinks
-Lined power cord cut-out with a tube protector and AS adhesived the ends (to protect power cords from the sharp mesh

Image

Still left to do:
- Screw down the mesh to the case, attach the fan, attach the PSU to the wood case, maybe clean off the extra AS adhesive from the blue Zalman's (although the unit will be in a closet, so it won't be seen anyhow)

Hex Mesh purchased from crazypc.com
2-3pin adapter from peformance-pcs.com
AS adhesive from hardwarecooling.com
PSU, copper ramsinks, zalman sinks, and AS adhesive purchased from subzeropcs.com, or with their help (my top favorite trusted store, by far)

this http://www.helpusall.com/computer is the 'case' and system the PSU will be used for. ((56k-users- a lot of large pics, allow a few minutes for page to download)

I'll post more pics when it's finished!! :D

Jon
http://www.helpusall.com
"you can never win and you can never lose, because the 'game' is always in-play; it is never over" so always do your best
"stillness and urgent action, in accordance with your highest guidance")
Last edited by jonjan on Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

GamingGod
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Post by GamingGod » Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:57 pm

Wow that is alot of monitors! Just curious what stocks do you trade?

jonjan
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Re: PICS of PSU Mod

Post by jonjan » Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:40 pm

thanks :D this is a tad off-topic, but on topic because i wouldn't be here otherwise... i day trade nasdaq 100 stocks... and the majority of the gains go towards funding efforts to help allow people to be more independent of corporations and jobs, and be more able to explore life more freely... and reduce the restrictions and exploitation of people and animals...

GamingGod
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Post by GamingGod » Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:00 pm

I was just asking because im a business major and I was thinking of day trading. Mainly after taking Accounting courses and learning more about stocks and bonds. What kind of profit do you turn? I dont really want to be the manager of a business, (or a worker either) for the rest of my life. Is there some secret, or strategy that you use, or do you just watch for stocks to go down and buy them on a low hoping they will rebound? Im very excited to learn about this topic because I have about 3,000 in the bank that ive been saving up and Ive been seriously considering investing it.

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