Strange PSU buzzing tied to HDD!?

Kremmit · Post by **Kremmit** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:15 pm

Just a stab in the dark, but the buzzing problem just sounds so familiar:

I had a persistent buzzing problem that was tied to HD activity in an old system. I finally determined that my buzz was not coming from the drive, PSU, or mobo, but the PC speaker! Does your case or mobo have an integrated speaker that might be picking up some electrical noise, and can you disconnect it?

PenDragon · Post by **PenDragon** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:28 pm

Hi Kremmit,

That's a good suggestion, but to my knowledge, the Antec NSK-2400 does not have a PC speaker. In fact, the first time I powered on the system, I got really nervous because I never heard the POST beep. If anybody wants to correct me, then please do, as I am somewhat surprised that I never found a PC speaker cable.

andyb · Post by **andyb** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:02 pm

My "Logic" (if you can call it that) is that I have heard several motherboards witth on-board networking making strange noises with heavy network usage, the noise is audiable from 3 feet in a noisy room and the noise directly corresponds with the LED built into the LAN port on the motherboard.

Anyway I only lost a few pounds....... out of interest what have the winners done with their money.???

I can only assume that its the power in your room/house/street, have you taken your PC to a friends house.??? I had a similar problem several years ago with a PC I had built, it was not stable in his house, but I could torture it at work, 3 PSU's later and no problem.!!!

The power to your house might be "dirty" if your PC is good elsewhere then you might need to spend a few Â£Â£Â£ on a UPS that straightens out your mains.

Andy

andyb · Post by **andyb** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:05 pm

Good point "Kremmit", not heard of it myself (bad pune), "PenDragon" most mobos have a speaker built in now, read the manual and look at the diagram to find it.

Andy

Kremmit · Post by **Kremmit** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:43 pm

andyb wrote:Good point "Kremmit", not heard of it myself (bad pune), "PenDragon" most mobos have a speaker built in now, read the manual and look at the diagram to find it.

Andy

It's usually a little round black thing about as big around as an "AA" battery, about 1/2" tall.

PenDragon · Post by **PenDragon** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:46 am

Anyway I only lost a few pounds....... out of interest what have the winners done with their money.???

Oh, just shipping costs for all the parts I've been replacing to get to the root of the problem...

Thanks for the suggestion on the mobo speaker- I"ll check on that and let you guys know.

tb2496 · Post by **tb2496** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:58 am

is there anyway of silencing coil noise? my PS started giving me a high pitch whine as well.

cernun · Post by **cernun** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:22 pm

I'm having the same problem. I was wondering if we're all the recepients of a bad batch of psu's? The first power supply(deciphering it from the serial) I had looks like it was made at the end of June 06and the one I received when I RMA'd it back thru NCIX looks like it was made early july. I think an antec rep troll's around the NCIX forums(he's posted with info about the sonata psu problems) so I'll see if I can get an an answer from him.

PenDragon · Post by **PenDragon** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:34 am

Well, I looked, but I didn't notice anything that might be a speaker. It's possible that I missed it because I didn't do a "grid-pattern search" or anything, but there was nothing obvious. That coupled with the fact that my PC does not POST beep makes me think there is no speaker... I've also got the 4-pin "speaker" connector on the motherboard (right next to PWR LED, HDD LED, etc) and it's not in use.

I've ordered an Antec NSK4400 and an Abit NF-M2 Nview for a build for a customer (side jobs

), so I'll let you know if I get any buzzing there (same mobo and PSU as in my current machine). If I don't, then I'll borrow the SU-380 out of the NSK-4400 and see if it buzzes in my system. Maybe there is something to cernun's suggestion...

sslamster · Post by **sslamster** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:13 pm

I have this same problem. At first I thought it was the hard drive but upon further inspection the noise seems to be coming from the power supply. I am using an INTEL DG965SS motherboard with a Core 2 Duo CPU and 1GB of OCZ DDR2 RAM. The interesting thing to note is that some of the power supplies are manufactured by ANTEC and some of them are manufactured by Seasonic; Seasonic is known to produce quality products. You can tell who manufactured your power supply by locating the UL number just below the UL symbol on the power supply sticker. Then go to http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/temp ... /index.htm

Enter that number in the field called UL File Number (The number is probably preceeded by an "E"). This will bring up the manufacturer for that particular power supply. Not that it really matters, but interesting to note is that I have had SU380's that were made by both ANTEC & Seasonic and both have buzzed under load. The SU380 has received glowing reviews so I am confused as to why we are having this problem. I also used a SmartPower 350 and no buzzing. I actually like the dual fan design in the SmartPower 350 better than the single fan design in the SU380 but the SU380 is supposed to be a pretty good supply. Do you all think that the buzzing is coil or capacitor "whine" and do you think it will reduce the longevity of the power supply?

PenDragon · Post by **PenDragon** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:20 pm

lamster- your situation definitely sounds identical to mine, right down to the buzzless SP2.0 350. You mentioned that you have OCZ DDR2 memory- so do I. Would it be possible that the memory is the cause of the problem? The fact that you have an Intel board makes it sound like it's not a problem with *all* Abit NF-M2 motherboards, but rather a more generalized problem.

sslamster · Post by **sslamster** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:47 pm

PenDragon- Yes, our situations sound identical. I don't think it's the memory since I have used it with other configurations and no problems. I am convinced that the culprit is the power supply. Since we both swapped the SU380 with a SP350 and the problem went away, I think we can comfortably assume that the culprit is the PS. The support reps at ANTEC are nothing more than computer screen readers, they have no technical knowledge at all (at least not any of the people I have spoken with). I have been using ANTEC power supplies for several years, dating back to the old AT style supplies. I would purposely swap out the no name PS than came in the cases I used and put in an ANTEC. I never had any problems until I started using the SU380 supply. Again, I am disappointed and confused since this supply gets such high marks from most reviewers. Have you made any progress? A thought just came to mind with respect to someone's comment about the speaker. Perhaps there is some noise and/or interference being transmitted from the PS through the speaker. Incidentally, I am also using Seagate hard drives, I love the new 7200.10 SATA series.

PenDragon · Post by **PenDragon** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:16 am

I haven't made any progress yet. I keep meaning to call Seasonic, but I've been too busy working during business hours. I agree that the PSU seems the most likely culprit since an SP2.0 350 does not have any problem in our machines. But then the SU380 and S12-380 don't make the buzzing sound in a different computer, so I think it's an incompatibility somewhere along the line between the PSU and other hardware.

I've got another SU380 right now that I'm using in a build for a coworker (it came with the Antec NSK-4400), so I plan to try that out and just see if it buzzes. If it does, then it will be SU/S12-380 number 4 that buzzes.

sslamster · Post by **sslamster** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:38 am

I just got done building 3 systems with the NSK4400 case and of course all three of them had the SU380 power supply. One of the supplies buzzed so faintly that I thought it was acceptable to deliver to the customer. But the other 2 buzzed so much that I could hear it over the sound of my furnace. Interestingly enough I just got an SU380 back from ANTEC from the RMA I submitted and it is also made by Seasonic but this one is RoHS compliant where the others aren't. Unfortunately it didn't matter because that one buzzed like crazy. I am going to CompUSA today and buying 3 of the Earthwatts 380 supplies. I simply don't feel comfortable delivering a system to a client with that buzzing; it's simply annoying and I am not entirely sure that it's not a safety hazard.

Fetus Impaler · Post by **Fetus Impaler** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:00 am

lolz

take everything out of the case. put it on a large flat nonconductive table with only monitor and required parts: psu, mobo w/ cpu, ram, hdd's, gfxoutput. that way you can examine it easier.

you should record a sound clip because there are so many different buzzes that we have all heard before. is it like a high freq hearing aid buzz or a vibrating dildo inside wooden drawer buzz?

WORD OF ADVICE FOR ALL ANTEC RMA'S.
Do yourself a favor and leave it sealed.
Sell it on ebay to compensate your losses and invest in a psu built with quality.
Antecs sweatshops should not venture beyond the manufacturing of
pc cases, friendship bracelets, and other novelties.

sslamster · Post by **sslamster** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:00 pm

Taking all the parts out and putting them on a bench is not going to help figure out why the PS is buzzing. Myself and PenDragon, and many others I am sure, are experiencing the same exact thing with different configurations. The only common denominator is the power supply. Antec doesn't actually make ALL of their power supplies, if you see my post above about going to the UL site and putting in the RU number found on the power supply sticker - you can find out who actually made the supply. In many cases, SeaSonic makes Antec's power supplies. 9 out of 10 times the SU380's I have had were made by SeaSonic - hence PenDragon having the same issue with a SeaSonic 380.

dejsti · Post by **dejsti** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:41 pm

i have the same problem, and nearly same specs.

i'm using the abit nview, with the psu from the nsk2400 (which i believe is the su280) and the buzzing i hear is exactly the same one posted in that link. i was going to opt for the recommended seasonic psu but after reading the comments here i guess i'll put it off for now.

sslamster · Post by **sslamster** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:06 pm

I had a bunch of SU380 supplies that came with the NSK4400 cases that I use and I thought I had it narrowed down to a particular set of serial numbers indicating that it was a possible bad batch but I had to throw my theory out the window since some of the most recent supplies I received were out of the range of serial numbers that I thought represented the bad batch (and also exhibited the buzzing). I was reluctant to try another ANTEC PS but I got a few of the Earthwatts 380 models and tried them out; they work flawlessly, no buzzing and they are also made by Seasonic. At this point I will probably not use the NSK4400 cases anymore since the PS's that come with them are prone to this buzzing which is completely unacceptable, not to mention annoying as heck. So if anyone wants to replace the SU380 with a comparable PS I would recommend the ANTEC Earthwatts 380. The fan is slightly louder than the SU380 fan but still bearable and capable of being used in a quiet PC or media center system. Incidentally, one of the SU380's that I have works perfectly without any buzzing whatsoever. My contention is that for the batch of PS's that were made during a particular time period and exhibit the buzzing, the manufacturer used faulty parts. Of course, it could be the fault of ANTEC for spec'ing certain parts for the SU380's. All I know is that I won't be using those cases or PS's for a long while.

PenDragon · Post by **PenDragon** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:54 am

Thanks for your reply dejsti. Don't lose heart just yet!

sslamster- thank you so much for letting us know about your experience with the Antec and Seasonic PSU's. It sounds like it's becoming quite a prevalent problem, and your testing is much appreciated.

I haven't had a chance to the test the SU-380 from the build I'm doing for my coworker in my media center yet because I ran into some major issues with the build (completely unstable, to the point of even crashing in BIOS, and the voltages are all correct, and I tried different RAM, so that Abit NF-M2 Nview motherboard is currently on a UPS truck), but I still plan to try.

The other thing I did was contact Seasonic on Friday and explained my problem. Of course, he said to RMA it. I then explained that I've had a few in a row between the Antecs and Seasonic with the same problem. He then told me that he can guarantee the new one they send me won't buzz in my system- that it's a "known problem". So, once that RMA goes through and I get the new PSU from Seasonic, I'll post and let everyone know if it clears up the problem or not!

sslamster · Post by **sslamster** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:21 am

PenDragon- that's interesting. I wonder what the exact cause of the problem is, it sounds like SeaSonic knows what the issue is. Good luck with your system, sounds like a bad motherboard. Keep us updated.

dejsti · Post by **dejsti** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:45 am

I decided to try the s12-430s anyway, and the buzzing is gone

.

so you could rule out any motherboard incompatibilities; sort of bittersweet though, since now i can actually hear my hard drives.

PenDragon · Post by **PenDragon** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:38 am

Just an update- Seasonic currently has my buzzing PSU, and I'm waiting to get the "I guarantee it won't buzz" PSU to try out. I'll let you know what I find out.

On another note, the motherboard RMA for a customer has been an absolute nightmare. It took UPS 5 days to get it to Newegg. It then took Newegg another 5 days to tell me they couldn't exchange because the motherboard was out of stock. That's just ridiculous... Fortunately, my customer has been patient, but I know I'm pushing it. I've ordered the Asus GF6150 AM2 instead, so I'll let you guys know if I get any buzzing with that mobo and the Antec SU380 PSU.

I've noticed a few other threads around here relating to Antec/Seasonic buzzing, so I guess the problem is becoming more prolific. I wonder if it has to do with the PSU's and newer hardware, considering the Seasonics have been around for awhile.

-Douglas

sslamster · Post by **sslamster** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:21 pm

PenDragon- I am convinced that it is a manufacturing or quality issue with the power supplies. Consider the fact that Seasonic makes a great deal of the ANTEC SU-380's and it makes sense that both models are having the same problem. The reason I say that is because I just got another NSK4400 case with the SU380 and built another system with the exact same specs (same mobo, RAM, CPU, etc...) as the previous ones and this one doesn't buzz. So I finally got one that works as it should. I am anxious to hear if the Seasonic you get back works properly. I know what you're saying about returning things to Newegg. the unfortunate thing is that the return point is in CA and I'm in NY so it takes 5 business days to get there if I ship it UPS Ground. I just sent back some network cable and it did indeed take 5 days but once they received it I had a refund within 2 days on my credit card; you can't beat Newegg's customer service. Have you ever tried the INTEL motherboards? I have been using them for the past 10 years and haven't found anything more stable on the market, the only downside is that you can't overclock on an INTEL board. Keep us updated when you get your Seasonic back.

Incidentally, I don't know if it was stated before, but I came across a web article (possibly on this site) that compared the SU380 and Seasonic 380watt PS, they opened up both supplies and they looked darn near identical!

kaange · Post by **kaange** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:37 pm

There are a few reports of PSUs suffering from coil whine when the load on the 5V rail is fairly low (like the SPCR review of the ST50EF+) so I wonder if the cause is due to the HDD activity increasing the power draw on the 5V rail into the coil whine zone on the PSUs that are suffering from this. Maybe a 100 Ohm resistor across the 5V to ground on one of the molex connectors would add enough load to move the 5V rail away from this region.

Just another WAG...

sslamster · Post by **sslamster** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:35 pm

Just to throw a wrench to the mix; on some of the SU380's I had, they would buzz when I used the keyboard in the BIOS. If the system sat without any user input then there would be no noise coming from the PS, but as soon as I hit a key it would buzz.

kaange · Post by **kaange** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:48 pm

Do you know if PS2 keyboards & mice and USB are powered of the 5V rail? If so, maybe we're getting to the source of this...

sslamster · Post by **sslamster** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:36 am

The PS/2 port does in fact have a +5V pin but I can't say definitively that the port itself is powered off the 5V rail.

sluggo · Post by **sluggo** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:25 am

My experience with PS/2 mice is that they can cause a lot of ripple on some PSU's. I was testing an audio card and subwoofer that would rumble like crazy when the mouse was moved. I checked the +12 line and there was about 250mV of AC added when the mouse was moved. Adding mouse trails made it far worse. Take a look at that if you hear noise when you move your PS/2 mouse.

Coil noise can be cured with a drop or two of Loctite blue. Just touch the drop onto the exposed windings and let it soak in and set up overnight. This is common practice in the industry and will not hurt anything. If you're not sure which coil is singing, just treat them all. You'll want to start with the VRM coils, though, as those are the most likely culprits.

kaange · Post by **kaange** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:54 pm

sluggo wrote: I checked the +12 line and there was about 250mV of AC added when the mouse was moved. Adding mouse trails made it far worse.

That sound more like the video card was generating the noise since mouse trails are not generated from the mouse but through the video handling.

PenDragon · Post by **PenDragon** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:03 pm

The new motherboard for my build for a customer is working fine, and that SU380 PSU does not buzz at all in the system. So, I'm inclined to agree regarding the manufacturing defect.

My new Seasonic should be in on Wednesday, so I'll let you guys know how that turns out.

My keyboard and mouse are a single wireless unit with a single USB connection, and I don't get any buzzing in BIOS.

My big complaint with UPS/Newegg is that there was a 10 day total turn-around time. I live in Missouri, and UPS should have taken less than 5 days to get the shipment to Newegg (their 3-day guaranteed service tends to get packages to me in 4-5 days- not sure where the "guarantee" is in all of this), and then Newegg took 5 additional days to accept the package and tell me it was out of stock. Generally speaking though, I love Newegg.