PC exits standby when vacuum cleaning the room

TomMe · Post by **TomMe** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:03 pm

Since I've started using standby a couple of weeks ago, I'm having an issue with it. Sometimes my PC will exit standby without any apparent reason. I've tried to find the cause of this, without luck. So far this has happened mostly when I was vacuum cleaning the room (not the PC) and using power from the same power socket as the PC, at some point even 3 times in a row. But sometimes I wasn't doing anything. Since I'm not the only one who lives here, someone else might have used power from the same line at that time, but I'm not sure.

I've already ruled out the network connection, as I've had it happen when the ethernet cable was pulled out as well.

Is it possible that another device on the same electrical line inside the house could trigger something in my PSU and make the PC come out of standby?

My system specs are below. Thanks for reading!

Post by **CA_Steve** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:10 pm

you don't happen to have the pc plugged into a UPS and are monitoring line conditions via your PC? A high amperage device, like a vacuum cleaner, will cause a voltage drop/spike/enough noise to cause a UPS to protect the clean power and drop offline to batteries...until the noise goes away. If your PC is monitoring the UPS, it could come out of standby to show the alert...

pelago · Post by **pelago** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:52 am

Is it actually coming out of standby (so your documents are open in the same place) or rebooting? If it's rebooting then maybe the PC is actually losing power, and if your BIOS is set to switch the PC on after a power cut, maybe that's what's happening.

If it really is coming out of standby, is it something like vibration is causing a key to be pressed or the mouse to be moved? Again, that depends on whether a keypress or a mouse move will bring your PC out of standby.

TomMe · Post by **TomMe** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:14 am

I'm not using a UPS. The PC is coming out of standby, not rebooting. No keys are pressed and no mouse is being moved. At first I thought that was the case too, but it's not.

Some people over at the MSI forum say it could be caused by the network controller, and I should disable its wake up function. I'll let you know how that goes.

efcoins2 · Post by **efcoins2** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:20 am

Vibration might cause the mouse to move, or some noise might be picked up by the mouse controler (if you have a cordless mouse)

Post by **CA_Steve** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:30 am

wake-on-lan is a strong possibility

angelkiller · Post by **angelkiller** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:58 pm

Any scheduled events in Windows? Do you have any program that might cause your computer to start up? If not, go to your bios. Specifically the power/boot section. Troubleshoot by changing one setting at a time, and then try vacuuming. (A faster way would be turn everything that could possibly wake your computer off.)

TomMe · Post by **TomMe** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:40 am

Moving the mouse doesn't wake up the PC, so no vibrations. I have the following BIOS settings:

ACPI Function [Enabled]
ACPI Standby State [S1/POS]
Power Button Function [On/Off]
Restore on AC Power Loss [Off]
----
Resume From/by: all are disabled, except the following:
Resume by PCI Device (PME#) [Enabled]
Resume by PCIE Device [Enabled]

The nForce Networking Controller has the following values in device manager:
-Wake on Magic packet [Enable]
-Wake on pattern [Enable]
-WakeOnLAN From Poweroff [Enable]

I disabled those 3 values this morning, same problem.

I do have a scheduled event, but it's set to march 18. I'll remove it nevertheless.

Yesterday the PC came out of standby 3 times when I was vacuming, in a time frame of about 15 minutes. After that I put the PC in standby for 45 minutes without doing anything else: no problems.

It may be worth noting that whenever I start the vacuum cleaner, the lamp that stands on my TV flickers for a moment. But the PC usually exits standby when I'm already vacuming for a couple of minutes. Ocassionaly when I started or stopped the cleaner as well though.

I'll report back after some more experiments.

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:25 am

It may be worth noting that whenever I start the vacuum cleaner, the lamp that stands on my TV flickers for a moment. But the PC usually exits standby when I'm already vacuming for a couple of minutes. Ocassionaly when I started or stopped the cleaner as well though.

possibly the vacuum cleaner is causing some kind of voltage irregularity?

http://www.tvss.net/trans/trans-x.htm

Each time you turn on, turn off, load, or unload an inductive device, you produce a transient. Inductive devices are those devices that use "magnetic mass" to function. Examples of inductive loads are motors and transformers. The inductive "kick" from a 5-horsepower motor turning on can produce a transient in excess of 1,000 volts.

jhhoffma · Post by **jhhoffma** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:31 am

If you're not plugged into a surge suppressor/protector, I would think that this would be likely. Especially, if you have a system with a rechargeable mouse (like a Logitech) and the reciever/dock is plugged into both the outlet and the USB port.

I noticed a similar action, except with an older large TV, not a vacuum cleaner. Putting my machine on a surge protector fixed the problem. I also plugged the TV into a EMF filter/Surge Suppressor to eliminate any other effect with other appliances.

TomMe · Post by **TomMe** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:14 am

Hm, I don't have much knowledge of electricity beyond that of a layman. I've read the article but can't really make much out of it..

So suppose this is what you guys say, can it damage my PC? Is it normal my PSU picks this up?

I've also had another problem ever since I bought this machine. Sometimes I get vertical lines at boot (very rare). Here's a description. Could it be related?

Update on what I've done since my last post:
-removed scheduled task: same problem
-disabled all "Resume by/from" in the BIOS: same problem
-use another power socket that's not connected with the power socket of my PC: no problem so far!!

edit: I have a printer connected to a USB port..the mouse isn't cordless.

TomMe · Post by **TomMe** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:17 pm

Okay, so I'm doing a bit of research into surge protectors. I'm amazed that I didn't use something like that before.. Great article btw: link.

If I hook both PC and vacuum cleaner to such a protector, will that be sufficient? Does it protect from surges produced by other devices besides those coming from the power outlet?

angelkiller · Post by **angelkiller** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:33 pm

By chance do you have a spare power supply? I don't know much about electricity, but it may be worth a try. If the problem still occurs you can rule out your Seasonic.

TomMe · Post by **TomMe** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:56 am

No, I don't have a spare (that's powerful enough). I've mailed Sea Sonic about it yesterday, I'm waiting for their reply.

I could always try another PC, but since those spikes/surges (if that's what is causing this) can be damaging to hardware, I'm not sure I want to continue testing..

jhhoffma · Post by **jhhoffma** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:02 am

Plug the computer into the surge protector. DO NOT plug the vacuum into the surge protector. The motor in the vacuum will draw a LOT of current when it starts, which is why the lights in the room may dim slightly. If it draws too much power, it will trip the surge protector.

Ideally, you wouldn't even want the vacuum on the same circuit (from the breaker) as the computer, let alone on the same outlet. If you can run the vacuum from an outlet in another room or from a hallway outside the room, that might be better (if the rooms are on separate circuits).

TomMe · Post by **TomMe** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:43 am

Well, this PC is running on the same line as the washing machine and kitchen appliances. I hope I can describe this accurately. This room didn't have an outlet, and when one was placed it was put on the same line as the kitchen.

I've known the PC to come out of standby without vacuming as well. And I suspect it may have something to do with those other devices. The refrigerator and water heater are constantly plugged in, etc. And when the washing machine is running, I have to shut down the PC or the fuse in the basement will activate and shut everything down. This has happed quite a few times over the years and they should be replaced asap.

But I've never had any power issues with any of my PCs, except for bulging caps inside a couple of PSUs. And I think it's strange my PC just exits standby, why doesn't it crash or shut down?

jhhoffma · Post by **jhhoffma** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:27 am

I don't know what electrical wiring standards are in Belgium, but having a washing machine, water heater, kitchen appliances (refrigerator, coffee maker, stove?), and a PC would exceed the draw on most US circuit breakers. That's a LOT of current to put through one line, but I don't know if that's common over there, but it's potentially dangerous (IMO) just because a short would take so much power to overload and shut down the circuit.

I know Europe has 220V for everything. US only uses it for high powered items (washer/driers, electric stoves, etc) and everything else is 110V, so this is rarely a problem for US households as they're already on a separate circuit.

The PC wouldn't crash or shut down until the voltage/current change was outside the limits of the PSU to convert to 12V, 5V, and 3.3V. You might experience some instabilities if you were close to the limit of available power as the PSU wouldn't be able to supply a constant stream of clean DC power to the components.

TomMe · Post by **TomMe** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:32 am

Of course, we don't use all those devices at the same time. Only when the washing machine is being used, we have to be careful not to use anything else. It's been like that for years. At this moment for example, it's the fridge, PC and water heater and that's how it usually is.

The question is, will it be safe to use a surge protector on this outlet, in combination with those devices?

I've had 2 Windows freezes, around 8x vertical lines at boot and some program crashes with this machine since july. But those are all probably caused by other things. Never had much problems with my other machines, as I said.

I received a Dell P2 400Mhz a while ago. I could use it to see if it comes out of standby as well. But I think it uses another type of PSU as Windows XP mentions "it is safe to shut off the PC" when I exit. Could I damage this machine by testing?

edit: Okay never mind, the Dell doesn't have the same standby feature. But the question still stands, could I damage a PC?

psiu · Post by **psiu** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:28 am

Perhaps the easiest solution would be putting the computer onto a UPS, as even if the power fluctuated due to other devices, the UPS would provide a steady source for the computer.

Unfortunately I don't know what the pricing is like over there, I got both of my UPS's fairly cheaply (a rebadged Cyberpower on clearance and a Belkin to run an order over a certain mark for free shipping).

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:42 pm

I love Belkin UPS's.

APC has an old name and makes big ones, but the stats (at least advertised) made Belkin an obvious choice for me for a few years now.

yeah, to stop that issue, all you need is a $70 dollar UPS.

refrigerators should be on their own line. washing machine and dryer and wash room lamps can be all on one (gas dryers). Kitchen appliances, well, they can be on all one in a gas environment. Wall sockets in a kitchen should be on separate lines. Microwaves take ENORMOUS amounts of amperage. Toasters and coffee pots should be isolated as well. basically, 4 lines for a kitchen I would think would be standard?

TomMe · Post by **TomMe** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:07 am

From what I've read on the net, a UPS gives no protection against surges. It only protects itself from them, not the devices that are connected to it. But I'd have to do some more looking up.

I've made a new thread about the problem at [H]ard|Forum. Posting the link here might be useful.

An uncle of mine installed the electrical wiring when the kitchen was placed. He has a lot of experience, so I'm sure he knew what he was doing. Later the outlet for the PC was added to it by him. I'll ask him about it when I get the chance.

kike_1974 · Post by **kike_1974** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:13 am

Do you have the option "Wake on vacuum cleaner" disabled in BIOS?

Sorry, I coudn't resist

TomMe · Post by **TomMe** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:53 pm

No, I was more thinking of selling this vacuum cleaner with a "Wake up PC" function.

angelkiller · Post by **angelkiller** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:13 am

psiu wrote:Perhaps the easiest solution would be putting the computer onto a UPS, as even if the power fluctuated due to other devices, the UPS would provide a steady source for the computer.

I agree with this suggestion. My mom got a APC UPS for ~$50 at Office Depot. (An office supplies store. I don't know what you have where you live)