120mm Fortron: SPCR testbench snapshot/preview

PSUs: The source of DC power for all components in the PC & often a big noise source.

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120mm Fortron: SPCR testbench snapshot/preview

Post by MikeC » Mon Apr 14, 2003 1:29 pm

Samples of this 120mm fan Fortron (300W version) finally arrived an hour ago. I know I will not have time for a full review for a couple weeks, so a quick & dirty comparison against another quiet PSU on the test bench seemed timely:

Hooked up to deliver 100W into the SPCR power load tester...

-- It draws slightly more AC power (5W) than a Nexus NX3000, which means lower efficiency by a couple %. May just be sample variance. Comes out of the same factory...

-- The airflow is obviously MUCH higher than with a Nexus (which is no slouch, given the low noise level)

-- It is difficult to say which is quieter. They are VERY close. I don't think you'd be able to measure the difference without high resolution spectrum analysis. The 120mm Fortron has a touch more low frequency content, I think, likely due to higher mass.

For noise, in a nutshell, it is close enough to call a draw vs. the Nexus, which measures ~22 dBA / 1 meter in an anechoic chamber. Neither is as quiet as the Exotic PC SilenX 14 dB sample on hand.
  • CORRECTION!: The trouble with quick assessments is that it is so easy to get it wrong. I got it wrong. :oops: Last night around midnight, when the ambient noise level is really low, I gave the 2 PSUs another listen.

    At 6" distance from the exhaust port, the 120mm Fortron is actually a bit louder than the Nexus. It's no more than 2 dBA, could be less. (very small difference). It's mostly airflow noise, mostly lower freq. (under say 500Hz).

    It is very quiet, but my (2nd) impression is that in noise ranking, it probably slots in (at low temps & low-med load) below the Nexus and Verax, but above the Seasonic. For obvious reasons, this assessment is still subject to verification in a full review.
IMO, the ideal use for this PSU might be with a low power dissipation CPU & large HS -- maybe the CPU could run fanless? I might have to try this with an undervolted/clocked XP1700 or Tualatin P3.
Last edited by MikeC on Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:17 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by ez2remember » Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:10 pm

Thanx for the info.

Would the Fortron PSU be slightly quieter than the Nexus inside a case, since the fan is further inside?

What voltage does the 120mm fan start at? (bypass the 12v initial startup)

A very promising PSU that only cost a fraction of the Nexus unit. :D

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Post by Hellspawn » Mon Apr 14, 2003 3:07 pm

and I'll toss in that it's a damn fine P/S, very inexpensive, quiet enough for my system. The fan starts up at full RPM (12v?) for about 2 seconds, then kicks down to it's nice level of quiet.

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Post by Zhentar » Mon Apr 14, 2003 3:16 pm

I got this myself, like it a lot. Quiet, cheap, and high airflow- an definate plus since its my only exhaust :)

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Post by MikeC » Mon Apr 14, 2003 3:16 pm

Would the Fortron PSU be slightly quieter than the Nexus inside a case, since the fan is further inside?
I doubt it, but if there is a difference due to that, it would be VERY small. Remember at aside from airflow / fan noise, the rest of the noise is structure borne -- mechanical vibrations.

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Post by dgouldin » Mon Apr 14, 2003 8:36 pm

So would it help much to decouple the PSU fan in the Fortron?

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Post by fmah » Mon Apr 14, 2003 9:02 pm

I figure the mod for this is to take the fan and mount it outside, or at least adjust the current mounting. If you put it outside you could use your own fan control too.

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Post by ez2remember » Tue Apr 15, 2003 5:26 am

fmah wrote:I figure the mod for this is to take the fan and mount it outside, or at least adjust the current mounting. If you put it outside you could use your own fan control too.
The fan is located at the bottom of the PSU, so it would be just above the CPU. The fan control is probably better than any mod you can do to it. From the comments made in the forums, this PSU will start at 12v for a couple of seconds, and then goes down to a very low voltage.

If you use your own fan control, the fan will probably not start below 5v and secondly it already has thermal control.

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Post by Hellspawn » Tue Apr 15, 2003 6:24 am

If you look inside the p/s case, there is very little clearance to work with between the fan and the p/s components. This might limit mods to things outside the p/s case, don't know for sure.

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Post by MikeC » Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:18 am

A quick heads up in case you didn't notice: I corrected my original post in this thread.

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Re: 120mm Fortron: SPCR testbench snapshot/preview

Post by NeilBlanchard » Tue Apr 15, 2003 8:40 am

Hello Mike:
MikeC wrote:It is very quiet, but my (2nd) impression is that in noise ranking, it probably slots in (at low temps & low-med load) below the Nexus and Verax, but above the Seasonic. For obvious reasons, this assessment is still subject to verification in a full review.
When you say "slots in below..." do you mean that it is quieter, or that it is lower on the list? IE is it quieter than the Nexus & Verax and noisier than the Seasonic -- or is it the other way 'round? I realize you will clarify this in the full review, but...

Another related point here is that in addition to the subjective noise qualities (like which has more annoying sounds), there is the all-important air flow thing! If a particular unit is wicked quiet, but it has almost no air flow (Verax?) and runs hot, then I don't really see the point! :shock:

I also appreciate your point about matching a PS to a machine: if a PS is very quiet at low power levels, it might still be noisier at medium power levels than some other unit. And if a particular PS provides more air flow, with the right CPU and HS and minimal ducting, one could even forsee going without a HS fan! 8) Or, at least being able to do without as many case fans or running them at lower voltages...thereby getting a quieter machine overall, despite having a "noisier" PS! :o

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Post by dgouldin » Tue Apr 15, 2003 9:55 am

hehe ... is somebody getting a little defensive of his (our) prized power supply? :wink:

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Post by ez2remember » Tue Apr 15, 2003 10:35 am

I thought it was too good to be true. I did have my reservations about it. My general observation of 120mm fans is that they have good airflow, but good airflow also means slightly more noise from air turbulance.

It shows when testing a very quiet system, the best time is in the middle of the night where ambient noise is minimal. It's suprising what sounds you can hear at night compared to daytime.

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Post by dgouldin » Tue Apr 15, 2003 10:45 am

That's when all the gnomes come out. Gnomes are quieter than people.

Seriously, though, I can relate to what you're saying. Things are just quieter at night.

When my power supply becomes the noisiest thing in my machine then I'll complain ... for now, I'm perfectly content with my choice of PSU.

I don't expect it to be the end all be all of quiet PSU's ... that's not what I paid for. I paid for a good quiet one that would get the job done on a budget, and I got a bargain.

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Post by ez2remember » Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:11 am

dgouldin wrote:I don't expect it to be the end all be all of quiet PSU's ... that's not what I paid for. I paid for a good quiet one that would get the job done on a budget, and I got a bargain.
Yep I quite agree, it's certainly a bargain for a quiet PSU.

It really depends on individual needs... If you have not been gripped by the silence bug, then many would be extremely happy with the noise, or lack of it. I leave my machine on more or less 24/7 so noise is more of an issue when you try to sleep. But listening to my PC during the day, I cannot hear it unless I concentrate.

I would be more than happy with the level of quietness if it was on only when I needed it. :D

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Post by GamingGod » Tue Apr 15, 2003 3:16 pm

but the increase in airflow might make it worth it still. I imagine it creates quiet a bit more than the 15-25cfm that most of the 80mm power supplies create. The low level 120mm fan probably puts out close to 30cfm.

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Post by Will35 » Tue Apr 15, 2003 8:10 pm

I doubt it, but if there is a difference due to that, it would be VERY small. Remember at aside from airflow / fan noise, the rest of the noise is structure borne -- mechanical vibrations.
Mike,

You think it would help to suspend the fan w/ isolators?

Will

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Post by MikeC » Tue Apr 15, 2003 8:13 pm

You think it would help to suspend the fan w/ isolators?
only one way to find out :wink:

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Post by halcyon » Wed Apr 16, 2003 3:21 am

I have ordered one FSP300-60PN(PF) for my quite hot computer (running modified Enermax 465AX right now).

I'm also trying to get hold of:

- fan isolators (to fasten the 120mm fan into the supply)
- psu silical gel dampening mat (to isolate psu from the case)

I will report back when I have been able to get all the materials and compared the effects of the dampening materials.

cheers,
Halcyon

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Post by Will35 » Wed Apr 16, 2003 11:29 am

I'm also trying to get hold of:

- fan isolators (to fasten the 120mm fan into the supply)
Antec finally has the Sonata replacement fan isolators in stock and they are selling them @ 4 for $2.99. They don't have a part # at this point. The phone # is 888-542-6832 assuming you are in the US.

I prefer these to the blue ones as they mount to the fan and then pull thru the case. Much easier to install and uninstall without destroying them.

Will

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Post by marc999 » Wed Apr 16, 2003 8:43 pm

halcyon,
psu silical gel dampening mat (to isolate psu from the case)
I've never heard of the above before. Please let us know where you get these (once you find out). I'm sure it couldn't hurt and they're probably not that expensive. I'd probably buy one regardless of what your impression was - just for peace of mind !! (no offence - I'm just anal !!).
:D

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Post by Katana Man » Wed Apr 16, 2003 8:57 pm

Image
$9 at Directron
http://store.yahoo.com/directron/tnsypw.html

Personally, I don't think these make any sense unless this is the only area where the PSU touches the case, and the PSU isn't hard mounted.

Assuming this was the only area where the PSU touches the case (or the other areas were also isolated), you'll still have the problem of the vibrations going through the 4 mounting screws.

Fans are light, and you can use fan isolators, but you couldn't do that with a PSU. Using grommets would also be useless if the threads of the screw touch the case anywhere (which they probably will since the PSU is so heavy).

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Post by marc999 » Thu Apr 17, 2003 1:20 pm

Thanks for the link.

Perhaps you could use grommets plus those nylon screws from Home Depot that was mentioned in the thread, "Grommets from Radioshack".
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewto ... radioshack

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Post by Katana Man » Thu Apr 17, 2003 1:24 pm

It might work, but I think any screw strong enough to hold up a PSU will probably transfer vibrations. I think another approach is to isolate the fan inside the PSU.

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Post by marc999 » Thu Apr 17, 2003 1:49 pm

Fans are light, and you can use fan isolators, but you couldn't do that with a PSU
I think another approach is to isolate the fan inside the PSU.
I'm confused? Aren't the above the opposite ?
Either way, I did send an email to Silicon Accoustics and asked them if you can use their blue fan isolators for a Power Supply. They said it would be a "a big pain to install" so assuming you're willing to go through the frustration, I assume you could isolate the fan inside the PSU.

But I guess if you were successful at isolating the fan in the PSU, there would be no point in the psu silical gel dampening mat, would there ?

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Post by Zhentar » Thu Apr 17, 2003 2:07 pm

the first one was for isolating the entire PSU. it wouldn't be too hard to do the fan though, you just have to open up the PSU and void your warranty. I'll probably do that soon, the fan grill is in the way of the mounting. I'm also gonna try ducting my cpu to the fortron, the positions of the fan so close to my cpu means the duct I usually use really blocks airflow to the PSU. and for the most part my look at putting the PSU deeper in the case didn't look too promising.

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Post by Will35 » Thu Apr 17, 2003 2:41 pm

the first one was for isolating the entire PSU. it wouldn't be too hard to do the fan though, you just have to open up the PSU and void your warranty.
My Fortron 120 did not have a warranty sticker on the lid, just use a GOOD screwdriver and no one will ever know you were in there :)

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Post by marc999 » Thu Apr 17, 2003 5:21 pm

Mike,

So what do you think is quieter then:

1. A modified PSU (with unrestrictive grills/vents) using a Panaflow L1A @ 5V for a fan or,

2. An (unmodified) 14 dBA SilenX PSU

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Post by MikeC » Thu Apr 17, 2003 5:35 pm

Well, I have used lots of the former & can say they are very very quiet. The latter could be even quieter, but as I have not used one in a system, it's harder to say. The fan in the PSU (my particular sample) is unbelievably smooth, even quieter than a Panaflo. Right now, I would lean towards the SilenX, but I find that with most things, I don't really know the product till I've lived with it for a while.

A review, even a good review, is usually a single photo, it can be very detailed & vivid, but it's one snapshot. After I've used it for a month, I know it better. I do actually spend MUCH more time with a product than most reviewers before actually attempting a review, which is one reason they take a while to get posted.

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Post by marc999 » Thu Apr 17, 2003 6:02 pm

Right now, I would lean towards the SilenX, but I find that with most things, I don't really know the product till I've lived with it for a while.
That makes sense. Especially with something like quiet computing. It's perhaps a little more subjective (in terms of type of noise and how annoying we perceive it to be - for me, high frequency stuff I find most annoying), and with things like moving fans, acoustics can change over time.
After I've used it for a month, I know it better. I do actually spend MUCH more time with a product than most reviewers before actually attempting a review, which is one reason they take a while to get posted.
Well by posting topics like this, we get the best of both worlds: Immediate information (that we are warned to take with a grain of salt) and a detailed review later. I think that's a great system. Plus, if the "snapshot" changes, a bump up/down can always be made in the recommended list. The site is well set-up.

So does the 14 dBA SilenX PSU come shipped with fan isolators around its 80mm fan?

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