Fanless PSU for fusion case?

potsy · Post by **potsy** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:45 am

Hi all,
I have a system in an Antec Fusion case. After fiddling with the CPU & hard discs (with plenty of silentpcreview input) the PSU is by far the noisiest thing left and I've decided to do something. I'm wondering if anyone has recommendations and I've a few of questions (sorry if you read it here and in the PSU forum too - I put it here by mistake and can't delete this one after someone has replied. Ooops).

First, will one of the low power fanless PSUs, maybe the ST30NF, be enough for my system (specs below)?

Second, any chance a PICO will do it? Or how about two PICOs, running half the system on one and powering say the second HDD and CD burner from an different source and only turning them on when I'm using them (I only use the second HDD for storing music files and I'm contemplating a third drive just to store my samples)?

Third, is the following thinking correct - I'm thinking a PSU with a fan is probably too loud for me. This is because the review of the Antec SU380 (which comes with the NSK2400 case) says it's the same as the Seasonic S12-330: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article592-page1.html Therefore I figure the PSU in the Fusion case, the SU430, is probably the same as the Seasonic S12-430. If that is so, then I've already got a PSU rated 8 out of 10 and it doesn't quite do it for me.

My system is:
MOBO: Gigabyte GA-8i945GMMFY-RH
CPU: Core Duo T2400 1.83 GHz
Ram: 2x DDRII 1G
Drives: 2x Hitachi notebook 5400rpm HTS541616J9S
Graphics: Nvidia GF7600GS - 256mb
Fans: 2x Antec tricool
DVD burner: Pioneer DVR 111 DB4

The only power I draw from the USB ports is a cordless mouse/keyboard and charging my ipod.

I recognise heat is an issue for going fanless, but I have been using the system in a box in my rack, so the heat can't go anywhere with a fan anyway. It lasts about 4 hours with the lid down before I turn the case fans on and open the door. I figure a fanless PSU can't be that much different.

Here's some pics. There's not a stack of room in the box. It has a lid so that it's isolated from the valves & other hot stuff above it. I've put a fanmate in line with the case fans (which you can just see at the front bottom) so I can slow them right down and just pull the plug to turn them off when I'm recording. With the case fan off it idles at about 50C. The drives are sandwiched, nice and quiet. See: viewtopic.php?t=41854

Thanks heaps, I have really appreciated the input of all the silentpcreview folk over time! If you want to hear what you're contributing to: www.hashemoto.com
Potsy

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:03 am

just one question; why is this in Silent Storage? should be in the PSU forum, no?

ST30NF will be more than enough for your setup, one PicoPSU should also run it, although you might want to undervolt the CPU to the max to give you some headroom.

potsy · Post by **potsy** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:09 am

ooops, right you are, i'll fix that up. Thanks for that, and your advice!

ntavlas · Post by **ntavlas** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:22 am

Yes , a pico psu should be doable and a better solution thermally than a passive atx one.

A fan swap is another possible low cost solution. Psu manufacturers need to play it safe and use ball bearing fans, noisier than sleeve bearing ones.

I noticed a big difference after I swapped the fan on my seasonic s12. I chose a skythe sflex fan with identical speed (1600rpm) to make sure it would get the airflow the manufacturer designed it for. It became as quiet as the rest of the system fans and quieter than my scorpio 2,5' drive mounted on foam.

ryboto · Post by **ryboto** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:15 pm

if a Pico can power my undervolted 65W AM2 and an x1950pro, then it should be fine for you.

smilingcrow · Post by **smilingcrow** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:54 am

If going the Pico route be aware that many if not most power bricks rated for 120W tend to have a temperature controlled fan. If you can get away with an 80W power brick you have more chance of getting a fanless one.

mimwdv · Post by **mimwdv** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:41 pm

Yeah, I think the Pico should do it, even with the 80W brick. Both systems in my sig are running off 80W bricks. But the HTPC wouldn't start with the PICO, but has no problems with the PW-200V. I worked out it was the 6600 that was the problem, but I never worked out why - it only draws ~50-70W even with the 6600 in it.

puddnhead · Post by **puddnhead** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:01 am

ntavlas wrote:A fan swap is another possible low cost solution. Psu manufacturers need to play it safe and use ball bearing fans, noisier than sleeve bearing ones.

I noticed a big difference after I swapped the fan on my seasonic s12. I chose a skythe sflex fan with identical speed (1600rpm) to make sure it would get the airflow the manufacturer designed it for. It became as quiet as the rest of the system fans and quieter than my scorpio 2,5' drive mounted on foam.

Yeah, I guess if you're convinced you will only be pleased by no fans at all, then a whole new fanless PSU is the only way to go. But I think it would be getting a bit carried away for all but the most obsessive to not at least try ntavlas's approach first. Especially with what MikeC had to say about the PSU in the nsk2400:

5. TEMPERATURE & COOLING - Thermally, the SU380 has nothing to worry about. The largest temperature rise between the intake and the exhaust was a measly 4Â°C, reached just before the fan began to speed up. If anything, the SU380 is overcooled â€” Antec could probably have gone with a quieter medium or low speed fan without worrying about the internal temperature.

6. FAN, FAN CONTROLLER and NOISE - In fact, that is exactly what Antec should have done, since the minimum noise level was disappointingly high. For those less obsessive about noise, it would still be considered quiet, but given the large number of power supplies with lower base levels it's a shame that a quieter or at least slower speed fan wasn't used. The choice of fan is the one part of the SU380 that isn't top-notch. Obsessive silencers will no doubt find it a perfect candidate for a fan swap.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article592-page1.html

I just wish MikeC had stuck one more sentence in there, recommending a good replacement option for the lazy among us

This is what I'm thinking of doing in my just built Fusion Black HTPC -- just waiting for my Scythe Ninja mini to arrive & see if swapping that for the stock AMD cooler will do enough all by itself first

puddnhead · Post by **puddnhead** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:16 am

potsy wrote:Third, is the following thinking correct - I'm thinking a PSU with a fan is probably too loud for me. This is because the review of the Antec SU380 (which comes with the NSK2400 case) says it's the same as the Seasonic S12-330: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article592-page1.html Therefore I figure the PSU in the Fusion case, the SU430, is probably the same as the Seasonic S12-430. If that is so, then I've already got a PSU rated 8 out of 10 and it doesn't quite do it for me.

You know, I just looked at your post again and you have something here that I'm surprised no one commented about. Unless I am really confused, your (our) SU-430 is not at all like the S12-430!!! I think you are getting confused by the bit in the review that says the PCB layout is like the S12-430. But what you are looking at is the noise output (i.e. fan), which is nothing like the S12-430. you do realize that the "S12" in the model number refers to a 12cm (120mm) fan & and that the SU430 has an 80mm fan? Look at the bottom of the page you linked, if nothing else:

MP3 Sound Recordings of Antec SU380

Antec SU380 @ <90W (24 dBA@1m)
Antec SU380 @ 150W (25 dBA@1m)
There was no need for recordings at higher power levels; it's unlikely that the PSU will ever get that loud in the NSK2400.
Sound Recordings of Comparative PSUs

Seasonic S12-430 (Rev. A1) @ 150W (19 dBA/1m)
Antec Neo HE 430 @ 150W (21 dBA@1m)
Nexus 92mm case fan @ 5V (17 dBA/1m) Reference

Notice the difference in noise output, 24dBa for the SU430, 19dBa for the S12-430 (which has the same fan -- again, the fan is what makes most of the noise -- as the S12-380). that is a HUGE difference, not "the same as"!!!

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:43 am

Notice the difference in noise output, 24dBa for the SU430, 19dBa for the S12-430 (which has the same fan -- again, the fan is what makes most of the noise -- as the S12-380). that is a HUGE difference, not "the same as"!!!

19dBA was for Rev A1 S12, which had sleeve fan, current models have ball bearing fan which increases noise to 20-21dBA, 2-3dBA is not a huge difference if you consider that 1dBA is the JND threshold (Just Noticeable Difference).

puddnhead · Post by **puddnhead** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:50 am

Well I guess we can quibble over adjectives -- and note all I'm doing is quoting MikeC's article on the 19dBa, that is not my statement you are disagreeing with, and also note it's the 19dBa fan model which the review the OP is basing his judgement on -- but do you agree or disagree that his statement the "Antec SU380 (which comes with the NSK2400 case) is the same as the Seasonic S12-330," is wrong, in particular regarding noise profile? It's much more comparable to the Seasonic Super Silencer from what I can tell.

jaganath wrote:2-3dBA is not a huge difference if you consider that 1dBA is the JND threshold (Just Noticeable Difference).

Actually, the rule of thumb is that 3 dBa is about a 50% difference. decibels are a logarithmic scale, not linear. So 3db is not 3x a 1db difference, it's much larger.

Anyway I think you (and now I) are losing site of the forest for the trees, dwelling on these details. The OP is not talking about replacing his SU430 PSU with a S12-430/380 psu, so whether the current s12-430 psu is 19dBa or 21dBa is completely irrelevant to the topic of quieting his rig. What he is doing is using the review of the s12-430 -- which at the time of the review produced 19dBa, it doesn't matter what it does now -- and then apparently interpreting the review of the SU380 to say it's the same as that 19dBa s12-380, and therefor concluding that that his SU430 is just as quiet as the reviewed (19dBa) S12 unit, and then from that concluding that because the reviewed s12 (19dBa) unit is rated as one of the quietest fanned PSUs, there is no fanned PSU that will be quiet enough for him. That is faulty logic.

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:39 am

do you agree or disagree that his statement the "Antec SU380 (which comes with the NSK2400 case) is the same as the Seasonic S12-330," is wrong

clearly the SU380 is louder. but not by much. a fanswap with a Nexus 80mm should make it as quiet as S12-330.

decibels are a logarithmic scale, not linear.

oh really...in all my 4000-odd posts no-one ever explained that to me.

human hearing is also roughly logarithmic, so yes 3dBA is 3x1dBA in terms of the increase in perceived loudness.

puddnhead · Post by **puddnhead** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:23 am

jaganath, it's odd to see here (of all places!) the argument that there isn't a very perceptible noise difference between 19 and 25 dBA.

This is an interesting comment:

jaganath wrote:a fanswap with a Nexus 80mm should make it as quiet as S12-330.

LOL. Yeah, while it pushes , what, half as much air! And then I can make the S12 quieter than the SU430 once again by putting a Nexus in there (and cool it better to boot). Whatever

Anyway, I tried to make as clear as I possibly could id in the post you replied to, all that is irrelevant to the issue, OP's misinterpreting the similarities between the S12-430 and the SU-430 (both stock).

potsy · Post by **potsy** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:33 pm

Puddnhead & jaganath, sorry for taking so long to say anything, I didn't realise you had posted. Thank you, yes after looking twice it is obvious that the SU-430 and the s12-430 are different. I should just have looked at the pictures - there is obviously a 12mm fan there! This is good because it means my options are greater than I thougth. I have found a cheap mCubed 200w external PSU and I'm going to give that a go, but if it's not enough power then: "I can make the S12 quieter than the SU430 once again by putting a Nexus in there" sounds good to me!
Potsy

puddnhead · Post by **puddnhead** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:22 pm

No problem, glad I can help. I miss those little things all the time myself. Good luck!

weissnich · Post by **weissnich** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:40 pm

Sorry for reanimating this old thread, but I own the Gigabyte GA-8i945GMMFY-RH mobo and would like to know what potsy is using as cpu cooler, does anyone know what this is?

potsy · Post by **potsy** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:15 pm

Hi there Weissnich, the cooler on the cpu is a thermalright XP120. There's a silentpc review here: link

It worked really well and I ran it fanless. But when I upgraded my mobo/cpu I also upgraded to a ninja mini which I think utilises the space in the fusion case better.

Cheers
Potsy

netmask254 · Post by **netmask254** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:27 pm

It's very difficult to find a good passive PSU.

I think you can consider some extremely quiet PSU whose fan speed is <500rpm, they are indeed inaudiable, such like Nexu Value 430 and Enermax Eco 80+. Also if your budget is allowed, a semi-passive PSU such like X-650 (fan will not turn on below 200W) may be the best selection.

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:58 pm

nightjar pimps ho's

aiiiight

Fanless PSU for fusion case?

Fanless PSU for fusion case?

Re: Fanless PSU for fusion case?