Enermax 625w Modu 82+ enough for 4870x2 and OC 9950 Phenom?

PSUs: The source of DC power for all components in the PC & often a big noise source.

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Mouse on Mars
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Enermax 625w Modu 82+ enough for 4870x2 and OC 9950 Phenom?

Post by Mouse on Mars » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:05 pm

My project is to do the impossible: run a (relatively) quiet system with some high-power/high performance parts -- and to OC.

So far, parts include the Antec P182, Phenom 9950, Noctua UH-12P, ASUS M3A79-T Deluxe, 4x2gb DDR2-800, 300 gb Velociraptor, 1tb Caviar Black, 2 Optical Drives and a 4870x2.

I plan to OC the CPU t0 3ghz+ and am willing to add a small amount of VCore to acheive this. Just for giggles I might try to eke a little OC out of the 4870x2 as well.

The research I've already done suggests that the 625w Modu 82+ will be enough to power this beast, if barely.

Does you all think this unit will be sufficient or should I be looking for soemthing with a little more juice. If the latter, what would be a good quiet recommendation? Modular preferable (though if someone wants to argue that modular is all marketing no technical benefit I'll listen)

Thanks.

dhanson865
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Post by dhanson865 » Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:36 pm

http://www.corsair.com/psufinder/default.aspx says you can get away with 620W.

Myself I'd prefer the corsair to the Enermax but I can't say that I have a solid reason to steer you away from the part you asked about.

Corsair also has a 750W option. You lose modular cabling but if you hang around in the 300 to 400 watt range much it might be quieter under specific loads.

It's hard to guess what your actual power draw will be until you start overclocking and have a killawatt or powerangel on hand.

AZBrandon
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Post by AZBrandon » Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:44 am

According to this review of an overclocked system with a 4870x2, it draws about 540 watts at full load from the plug. That means it's pulling around 430 watts or so from the PSU itself, which actually leaves something like 200 watts of headroom.

Headroom is a good thing, and with you wanting to overclock both the CPU and the 4870x2, I'd say that you can do it, but only with good quality PSU's, like the Enermax. As was pointed out, when running at full load, the PSU will probably be at full noise level, but there's not many PSU's that can put out 430 watts DC and not ramp up the fan speed. On the plus side, their idle power of 209 watts A/C is certainly within the quiet abilities of the Enermax.

Still, I have to ask the burning question - if you want a no-holds-barred system for all out speed, why buy AMD at all? Don't get me wrong, I like my AMD Opteron system, but given the budget you appear to be working with, Intel's chips offer more speed, especially when you take overclocking ability into account.

Tzupy
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Post by Tzupy » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:42 am

I'm still an AMD fan, but since you obviously buy the new stuff for gaming, get an Intel quad-core, the Q9550 is good value for money.
For a PSU that can handle the 4870X2 I'd get either Zalman ZM850-HP or Coolermaster Silent Pro 600, both have a 140 mm fan that ramps up slowly.

Mouse on Mars
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Post by Mouse on Mars » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:09 am

Re: AMD.

Definitely a valid question and one I debated back and forth with myself before settling on AMD. A few factors would up pushing me in the green direction:

* The AMD stuff is really inexpensive right now. I can get a top bin quad core chip and top-of-the-line mobo for tangibly less than the Intel equivalents (even if I go with a Q6600...Q9550 setup would be almost $200 more)

* SB750 intrigues me and I like a challenge. Everyone and his dog has cranked their 6600 up to 3ghz+. It looks like AMD have sorted out their clock syncronization issues and Phenom all of a sudden is a good bet to overclock well.

* When I buy a new system I like the idea of an upgrade path. This is always a bit of a crap-shoot because even socket compatibility doesn't guarantee that you'll be able to pop a new chip in a couple years down the road. The Intel upgrade path doesn't look good right now with Nehalem not socket compatible (and using currently expensive DDR3). Meanwhile, AMD's next line of CPUs should work in my mobo.

Anyway, back to the power supply issue, my suspicions have been verified: the Enermax will work but might not be the best solution. What do people think of the Corsair HX-1000 in relation to the other options out there? It's modular and should be at least as quiet as anything else running over 625 right now.

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Post by SebRad » Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:40 pm

Hi, SPCR's testing suggests the Zalman 1000w maintains low noise to the highest power levels of any PSU tested so far. See table on last page for comparison of noise vs power for various PSUs.
I believe the 850w version is the same internally and should have very similar acoustics, while the 750w and lower are different. I’ve not seen info on how well they perform.
Regards, Seb

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Post by Mats » Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:01 pm

Mouse on Mars wrote:* The AMD stuff is really inexpensive right now. I can get a top bin quad core chip and top-of-the-line mobo for tangibly less than the Intel equivalents (even if I go with a Q6600...Q9550 setup would be almost $200 more)
The big question is: Do you need four cores? Only you can answer that, because I don't know what you will use it for.
For gaming I'd get a Core 2 Duo. A 3 GHz X4 have the same performance of a 3.6 GHz C2D when used with a 4870 X2, according to this review.
The results in short: the 3 GHz X4 (15 % OC) is only faster than the 3.6 GHz C2D (12 % OC) in one of five games, and that with only 0.78 %, well within the error of margin.
Each row shows the FPS count for a game, check the link.

Code: Select all

9950 3 GHz 	E8400 3.3 GHz	E8400 3.6 Ghz
72	      	81	        	82
260	     	253	       	258
121	     	117	       	128
71	      	78	        	81
120	        125		       133
The X4 is HOT. According to Techreport, their 3.16 GHz E8500 system uses 189 W under load, while the 2.5 GHz 9850 uses 302 W.
That extra 100+ W will make it harder and/or more expensive to find a good PSU and heatsink, and it will make the computer noisier and hotter.

In terms of gaming performance per watt there's no reason to get the X4 over the C2D. You will have much more trouble to keep the X4 quiet.
Mouse on Mars wrote:* SB750 intrigues me and I like a challenge. Everyone and his dog has cranked their 6600 up to 3ghz+. It looks like AMD have sorted out their clock syncronization issues and Phenom all of a sudden is a good bet to overclock well.
I agree, the latest motherboards are very good. However, the CPU's are inefficient. The performance is not that bad, but they use way too much power, and that's one of the biggest reason why don't cost much.

There are good reasons why everyone uses C2: high performance, high ability to OC, and low power. It's a mobile CPU optimized for desktop use, but still uses little power.
The 65 W rated E8400 actually uses closer to 30 W, and the newer E0 stepping uses even less and overclocks better. The Phenom have still not found it's way to laptops for a reason.
Mouse on Mars wrote:* When I buy a new system I like the idea of an upgrade path. This is always a bit of a crap-shoot because even socket compatibility doesn't guarantee that you'll be able to pop a new chip in a couple years down the road. The Intel upgrade path doesn't look good right now with Nehalem not socket compatible (and using currently expensive DDR3). Meanwhile, AMD's next line of CPUs should work in my mobo.
The fact that a socket will stay for a while is no guarantee for future proofness. Look at S775, it changed many times, first made for P4, and then C2 which made 99 % of all old mobos incompatible,
and since then they have raised the FSB. You wouldn't buy a AM2+ mobo which is more than 3 months old for the same reason (you want SB750).
What do you think will happen when the new 45 nm X4 will show up three months from now? AM3 motherboards will show up and make the AM2+ counterparts outdated before you even have started thinking about upgrading CPU.

Which brings me to the next reason why you shouldn't buy a 9950: it's the last of a CPU series that never was really popular and it will get replaced really soon, look here:
Image
Image
Source VR-Zone
The new CPU will use about half as much power under load according to the only known test so far, remember that it is done with an engineering sample and not a final CPU.

In short:

- If buying now get a E8000 with E0 stepping.

- If you want AMD then at least wait for the new CPU's, the current ones have never been recommended by neither overclockers nor silencers, so they seem like a bad choice if you're gonna do both. :wink:

SnooP
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Post by SnooP » Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:42 pm

SebRad wrote:Hi, SPCR's testing suggests the Zalman 1000w maintains low noise to the highest power levels of any PSU tested so far. See table on last page for comparison of noise vs power for various PSUs.
I believe the 850w version is the same internally and should have very similar acoustics, while the 750w and lower are different. I’ve not seen info on how well they perform.
Regards, Seb
yep, i'd guess the zalman 850w is even better going off xbitlabs reviews. doesn't start ramping in their test rig until 700w+ load!
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cooler ... u9_13.html

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Post by MikeC » Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:05 am

SnooP wrote:yep, i'd guess the zalman 850w is even better going off xbitlabs reviews. doesn't start ramping in their test rig until 700w+ load!
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cooler ... u9_13.html
That's because they test in open air, at very modest temps, unlike the more realistic hot box simulation of a real PC that SPCR uses:
xbitlabs wrote:Our conditions are relaxed, though. We test the PSU at full load under typical room temperature, i.e. 22-25°C. The PSU works at full load for half an hour at least. If nothing bad happens to it during that time, we consider it as having passed the test.

SnooP
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Post by SnooP » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:05 am

Ahh yep, good point. How much difference would it make?
At a quick compare of antec trio 550w:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cooler ... up_13.html
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article712-page4.html

Fan ramp seems similar 150w start silentpcreview 200w for xbitlabs, silentpcreview seems to hit full speed earlier though, at 400w, where xbitlabs still isn't quite full speed (2000rpm?) at 550w.

I know they put the zalman 850w in the endpcnoise review you did a bit back. Would the 1000w model be quieter still at high loads? or about the same? or worse?
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article827-page2.html

lodestar
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Post by lodestar » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:58 am

Given that particular graphics card and a system load of maybe 450 - 500 watts I personally would be looking for at least a 700 watt PSU, and probably a bit more given a budget that would pay for the Enermax 625 watt (which costs £100 from my usual hardware store here in the UK). The spec obviously needs to include both 6 pin and 8 pin PCI-E connectors, and in addition the PSU has to be able to supply the 290 watts that the 4870 X2 will draw under full load through those two connectors. (And possibly more if overclocked).

At my local hardware dealers here in the UK, there have a fair number of PSUs that would meet the specs, including the 880W Hiper Power HPU-4M880, the 850W Silverstone SST-ST85ZF and the 800W Tagan TG-800ITZ. All of these sell for less than the cost of the Enermax 625w Modu 82+, at least at UK prices.

I have no idea about their performance, reliability or quietness of any of these PSUs, there may be web reviews that will tell you that. But I do think that something like one of these would make more sense that running a smaller PSU more or less flat out with maximum noise and heat levels.

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Post by MikeC » Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:44 am

lodestar wrote:At my local hardware dealers here in the UK, there have a fair number of PSUs that would meet the specs, including the 880W Hiper Power HPU-4M880, the 850W Silverstone SST-ST85ZF and the 800W Tagan TG-800ITZ. All of these sell for less than the cost of the Enermax 625w Modu 82+, at least at UK prices.
The Silvertone 850 should be about the same as the Zalman 850. They're both made by Enhance, probably the same series. I can't say they're the same because details may differ -- the Zalman does have that heatpipe thing which may help keep it cooler at high loads. Not sure that the Silverstone does.

Mouse on Mars
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Post by Mouse on Mars » Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:50 am

Thanks for all the thoughful replies everyone.

So, when all is said and done, I wound up with the Enermax 625 even though this thread basically convinced me that I should go with something a little beefier. Alot of the recommended alternatives are not available or in stock where I am and I'm ready to build the system in the next day or two. Worst case scenario, if it isn't up to the job, I'll have to pay a small restocking fee and will go with the 1000 watt Corsair (which is currently unavailable in my area or I would go for it now probably) or the 850 watt Zalman (which I would have to buy online and wait for shipping).

It's worth noting that even though the Enermax 625 is an expensive PS, the Zalman and Corsair are a considerable amount more.

I have seen several reports online of people running overclocked systems with this vid card and power supply, though it seems that most enthusiasts are running something a little more robust. I will probably comprimise a bit and not bother overclocking the radeon. The facts are that it's not a great overclocker, already generates alot of heat, and doesn't yield alot of benefit when overclocked. On the other hand, I definitely still plan to overclock the Phenom.

I'll post back with whether this experiment is successful.

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Post by MikeC » Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:41 am

Since you're putting the Enermax in a P182 which keeps the PSU cooling/airflow separate from the CPU / VGA, you may find it stays quiet to a higher power level than in our test chamber which puts the PSU in a much hotter working environment.

Mouse on Mars
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Post by Mouse on Mars » Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:21 am

One of the realizations I've had about this system and Power Supply is that it's unrealistic to expect a quiet environment when gaming regardless of whether the power supply is at full tilt and making noise or not. The fan on the videocard will be the loudest component when the card is running at load, by a considerable number of DBs. Also, lets face it, when gaming the sound of chainsaws cutting through zombies, tires screeching on the tarmac, and gold coins tinkling into the pockets of your chainmail kind of drown everything out regardless of how silent your undervolted case fans are. Of course, the other reality -- at least with me -- is that gaming represents a small percentage of my time on the computer compared with working/surfing etc. So what I want is a system that's quiet while not gaming and I don't really care that much if it's loud when I am.

So the important thing is that this PS is quiet while the videocard is idle but powerful enough to actually run everything at load without comprimising stability. The impression I get from this thread is that the PS is adequate to handle the power draw but that the optimal wattage might be closer to 800 so it's also quiet at load. Is that right?

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