Corsair VX450W or HX450W, please help with fan swap!

axee · Post by **axee** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:47 am

Hi!

I am going to upgrade my computer:

P5Q Pro
q9550 (planning to overclock it)
dual HD4670 (need 3 DVI ports)
4GB DDR2 Mushkin Redline kit
3 HDD's (WD6400AAKS, WD10EADS, WD10EACS)

Will Corsair VX450 be enough? PSU Calculator calculates 415W of recommended PSU wattage. Corsair HX620 or Enermax Modu82+ are too expensive to me.

Second thing, best fan to swap: Slipstream or S-Flex. I have one Slipstream (1200rpm) lying around, maybe I could use it, but on 5V it spins with 720rpm (little to loud for my taste). S-Flex spins with 400rpm at 5V (1200 rpm model). What fan should I use?

Will be 800rpm Slipstream too slow for this PSU (420rpm at 5V)? Please recommend me best fan (and speed), I really would like to same acoustic level like Nexus Value 430, even at full load.

Oh, I forgot to mention: PSU will be mounted in P182.

Thanks

thepwner · Post by **thepwner** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:10 am

I had a similar situation. I went with the S-Flex 1600rpm. I don't know about the 450, but with my Corsair 400W the 1600rpm closely matched the stats of the stock ADDA but was quieter. The reason why I didn't go with a slipstream is I heard that they are not good for mounting horizontally because of the bearing they use.

axee · Post by **axee** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:48 pm

Maybe than it's better to add 17â‚¬ and buy HX520 ? Still I wonder how fast would S-Flex 1600rpm spin at my full load? I really don't want to go over 1000rpm...

JamieG · Post by **JamieG** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:17 pm

+1 for 1600rpm S-Flex.

If you look at the fan voltage speeds in the review of the VX450 (about 2/3 of the way down the page) and the review of the 1600rpm S-Flex (scroll down a bit), you can estimate how loud the fan will be at any given power load.

I believe that any lower speed fan will not give you enough airflow for cooling your PSU. Of course, you could always wire the fan speed directly to a motherboard header and control it that way instead of wiring it the PSU fan wires, but you lose the automatic control of having the PSU fan speed vary with load (unless you replicate it in software).

axee · Post by **axee** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:50 am

What will be REAL power consumption of my system in full load? Maybe it's better to buy HX520?

Joe Public · Post by **Joe Public** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:04 am

Well, I'd say 300W or maybe a smidge less from the PSU with a reasonable CPU OC. Depends on the OC/voltage really.

axee · Post by **axee** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:04 am

Great! Then I'll go with S-Flex 1600rpm, even at 300W it will spin at about 800rpm I guess.

Thanks!

axee · Post by **axee** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:32 am

What about Scythe GentleTyphoon 1450rpm, what do you think?

thepwner · Post by **thepwner** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:52 am

Those gentletyphoons look like freaking junk.

axee · Post by **axee** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:02 am

Oh, I found HX450 in my country

Should I expect same fan voltages? Or maybe even better, since it's 80+ Bronze certified?

CroSsFiRE2.0 · Post by **CroSsFiRE2.0** » Sat May 02, 2009 5:45 pm

+1 for 1600

i put a 1200rpm sflex in my 450vx and its got almost no airflow at all at 4W. Works fine atm since its at the bottom of my case and isnt sucking out the cpu heat although when i scrounge up enough $$, i might get a 1600rpm s-flex with a new hdd

ntavlas · Post by **ntavlas** » Sun May 03, 2009 5:41 am

I think the 1600 rpm sflex doesn`t quite match the speeds of the stock fan. After I put one in a seasonic s12 it run considerably warmer. If your psu is going to be mounted at the bottom then there should be no problem otherwise a 2000-2500 rpm yate loon might be a safer choice.

By the way, I recently got a HX450. Even though the fan is very similar to the one in my seasonic, it`s much much better acoustically so maybe you will not need to swap the fan after all. There`s also that 7 year warranty...

thepwner · Post by **thepwner** » Sun May 03, 2009 8:34 am

http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox360/ ... nshirt.jpg (It's an xbox website but the message is the same)

And there are ways, of which I will not speak about because it probably goes against some rules here, but there are ways to not destroy that warranty sticker, so if something goes wrong, remove the swapped fan, plug in the old fan and close up the PSU and no one would know the difference...however that is for your own investigation.

petercrab · Post by **petercrab** » Sun May 17, 2009 8:09 am

thepwner wrote:And there are ways, of which I will not speak about because it probably goes against some rules here, but there are ways to not destroy that warranty sticker, so if something goes wrong, remove the swapped fan, plug in the old fan and close up the PSU and no one would know the difference...however that is for your own investigation.

If you were to mess with warranty sticker, I would say this is dishonest.

thepwner · Post by **thepwner** » Sun May 17, 2009 9:30 am

Exactly why I didn't tell how to do it.

petercrab · Post by **petercrab** » Sun May 17, 2009 9:59 am

thepwner wrote:Exactly why I didn't tell how to do it.

good.

petercrab · Post by **petercrab** » Sun May 17, 2009 5:56 pm

I am reluctant to change fans in my psu because it night run components hotter than they should be, I guess its ok as long as you make sure the replacement fan is doing equaly good job of cooling as previous.

new2spcr · Post by **new2spcr** » Mon May 18, 2009 5:16 am

petercrab wrote:I am reluctant to change fans in my psu because it night run components hotter than they should be, I guess its ok as long as you make sure the replacement fan is doing equaly good job of cooling as previous.

I recently swapped the VX450's very noisy Adda fan with a Noctua NF-S12-1200. The Noctua fan, apparantly, is notoriously bad at moving air if it there's any kind of obstacles near the fan blades. The obstacle issue isn't helped considering the fact that the VX450 PSU comes with a plastic sheet that covers around 20% (?) of the fan area to direct the airflow to it's hotter components and the cramped area the PSU consists of. Performance isn't that bad though; the Noctua fan moves some air, although I don't have a clue at what RPM it's working at ~ 4V... and the previously cold PSU with stock fan is with the Noctua now lukewarm to touch during idle and load. Exhaust air during Orthos stress test is below 30 degrees C (I have an Antec P182 so it helps maintaining the compartment temps low). I'm pretty satisfied.

I just hope the pretty longish Noctua wire isn't touching any extremely hot components inside the PSU...

DAve_M · Post by **DAve_M** » Mon May 18, 2009 5:26 am

Hi, Scythe Slipstream will be unsuitable because it is a sleeve baring type, and it has low static pressure so will not be good at pushing air against the resistance of the PSU internals. Scythe Gental Typhoon is ok, but s-flex has better barings so should get less motor noise.

DAve_M · Post by **DAve_M** » Mon May 18, 2009 5:34 am

CroSsFiRE2.0 wrote:i put a 1200rpm sflex in my 450vx and its got almost no airflow at all at 4W. Works fine atm since its at the bottom of my case and isnt sucking out the cpu heat

Does the fan spin up when the PSU is cold? I thought the starting voltage of the 1200rpm S-Flex is too high. Maybe the PSU has a short burst at high voltage to get the fan spinning?

Don't you guys know that the PSU fan is temperature controlled?? It cannot overheat under normal conditions. Swapping the fan will almost cirtainly reduce the MAX power available since it will not be able to cool itself at 450W output. But you can easily build a desktop PC with <100W usage. Even a modest gaming rig can be done with 150-200W under load. So even if the PSU would be limited to lets say, 250W after a fan swap, that's not much of a limitation.

new2spcr · Post by **new2spcr** » Mon May 18, 2009 10:59 pm

DAve_M wrote:
CroSsFiRE2.0 wrote: (snip) Swapping the fan will almost cirtainly reduce the MAX power available since it will not be able to cool itself at 450W output.

Is that so? I would say it will depend on what fan you swap it with.

ntavlas · Post by **ntavlas** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:29 am

It depends on the fan used and on the intake temperature. A bottom mounted psu will have no trouble reaching it`s rated output even with a slower fan as it will be working at 20 or more degrees below it`s operating temperature (assuming it`s 50 degrees). A top mounted psu is a different story however, sucking in warmer air and having to work against the low pressure created by the case exhaust.

Eventually I did swap the fan in my hx450 and I can report that the 1600 rpm sflex has no trouble starting.

DAve_M · Post by **DAve_M** » Tue May 19, 2009 1:55 pm

new2spcr wrote:Is that so? I would say it will depend on what fan you swap it with.

Yes that is true but since this is spcr I assumed that it will always be a quieter fan that gets swaped in. What's the stock fan on a VX450W? Isn't it somthing like 38dBA at 12v? In that case any fan that you put in will probably be quieter.

CroSsFiRE2.0 · Post by **CroSsFiRE2.0** » Thu May 21, 2009 3:35 pm

Glad you got it working ntavlas. I'd just like to point out that I've had my fan swapped 450VX in both top and bottom mounted positions. When top-mounted, it was certainly much hotter but any fan ramping could not be heard. I've actually found out that electrical noise has now become a bigger problem. When running everything passive except my psu, the electrical squeal from the psu is extremely annoying. Anybody else have this problem with their 450vx or other psu's in general?

ntavlas · Post by **ntavlas** » Thu May 21, 2009 10:48 pm

Relying solely on automatic fan control can be potentially dangerous. We have to remember that psus have sensors only on the main heatsinks so they have no way of knowing if other components are running too hot. It`s easy for dead spots to develop with very low fan speeds and personally I would never run a top mounted psu below 800rpm unless it`s somehow separated from other heat sources.

new2spcr · Post by **new2spcr** » Sun May 24, 2009 8:12 am

CroSsFiRE2.0 wrote:Glad you got it working ntavlas. I'd just like to point out that I've had my fan swapped 450VX in both top and bottom mounted positions. When top-mounted, it was certainly much hotter but any fan ramping could not be heard. I've actually found out that electrical noise has now become a bigger problem. When running everything passive except my psu, the electrical squeal from the psu is extremely annoying. Anybody else have this problem with their 450vx or other psu's in general?

I hear some buzzing noise, not squeals, from the VX450 that's only evident if I put my ear next to it.
Also, apart from the buzzing noise there are other noises emitting from it and it took me a while to determine its origin. The noise very difficult to describe, but it's not constant... goes something like "ting-ting-ping-ling-ping". Can only be heard during the night when ambient noise is very low or absent.

neumein · Post by **neumein** » Mon May 25, 2009 3:29 am

I've got an HX620 with a Slipstream 800 in it. The exhaust out the back is pretty warm, but the thing hasn't missed a beat, yet. I'm contemplating throwing in one of my spare P12s or Nexii, for the extra airflow (more a peace of mind thing, I guess).

JamieG · Post by **JamieG** » Mon May 25, 2009 3:27 pm

IMO, there are a few important things to remember about fan-swapping when you are wiring the fan to the PSU header.

1. A lot of PSU's have low fan voltages when they start up or when the system is idle, so it is important to get a fan that has a low starting voltage, like around 3-4V.

2. Unless your system draws close to your PSU's rated wattage at full load, it's likely your fan won't be spinning anywhere near its full speed, 5V to maybe 9V at absolute max. (7V max is probably more realistic). Therefore you have to choose a fan that provides a reasonable amount of airflow at these speeds. (Remember the Adda fans used in reasonably quiet PSUs such as the lower wattage Corsair / Seasonic units are 2k rpm / 35+dBA / 80-odd CFM at 12V or thereabouts from memory).

3. 120mm fans in PSUs are mounted in a horizontal position. Some types of fans (based on the type of bearings they use) don't perform too well in a horizontal position - i.e. they are noisier in that orientation or their performance drops or they start making a 'ticking' sound. I understand that these fans include Nexus fans and Scythe Slipstream fans. Scythe S-Flex fans (and also Noctua fans I think) don't suffer from this disadvantage.

These points come from my general reading around this forum when I was researching the fan-swapping issue. Points 1 & 2 above go out the window when you instead wire your PSU fan to a mobo header or a fan control of some sort.

Based on this, this is why I went with a S-Flex F 1600rpm fan for the fan swap I did on my gaming rig's Zalman PSU. I haven't had any issues with my PSU since, although it is in a P182 and therefore separated from a lot of the heat.

Anyway, just thought I'd add my $0.02 and share my thoughts on fan-swapping. Hope it helps someone.

DAve_M · Post by **DAve_M** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:16 am

JamieG wrote:IMO, there are a few important things to remember about fan-swapping when you are wiring the fan to the PSU header...

Yes, I would have to agree on all these points. Especially point number 2.

new2spcr · Post by **new2spcr** » Wed May 27, 2009 10:55 am

JamieG wrote:IMO, there are a few important things to remember about fan-swapping when you are wiring the fan to the PSU header.

1. A lot of PSU's have low fan voltages when they start up or when the system is idle, so it is important to get a fan that has a low starting voltage, like around 3-4V.

2. Unless your system draws close to your PSU's rated wattage at full load, it's likely your fan won't be spinning anywhere near its full speed, 5V to maybe 9V at absolute max. (7V max is probably more realistic). Therefore you have to choose a fan that provides a reasonable amount of airflow at these speeds. (Remember the Adda fans used in reasonably quiet PSUs such as the lower wattage Corsair / Seasonic units are 2k rpm / 35+dBA / 80-odd CFM at 12V or thereabouts from memory).

3. 120mm fans in PSUs are mounted in a horizontal position. Some types of fans (based on the type of bearings they use) don't perform too well in a horizontal position - i.e. they are noisier in that orientation or their performance drops or they start making a 'ticking' sound. I understand that these fans include Nexus fans and Scythe Slipstream fans. Scythe S-Flex fans (and also Noctua fans I think) don't suffer from this disadvantage.

These points come from my general reading around this forum when I was researching the fan-swapping issue. Points 1 & 2 above go out the window when you instead wire your PSU fan to a mobo header or a fan control of some sort.

Based on this, this is why I went with a S-Flex F 1600rpm fan for the fan swap I did on my gaming rig's Zalman PSU. I haven't had any issues with my PSU since, although it is in a P182 and therefore separated from a lot of the heat.

Anyway, just thought I'd add my $0.02 and share my thoughts on fan-swapping. Hope it helps someone.

No. 2 - good point. Honestly I have no clue at what rpm my Noctua NF-S12 is spinning inside my VX450.
PSU itself is slightly warm to touch but exhaust air isn't.