Seasonic shows X-Series, modular, 80 Plus Gold @ Computex

PSUs: The source of DC power for all components in the PC & often a big noise source.

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newyork
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Post by newyork » Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:48 am

JVM wrote:
newyork wrote:
JVM wrote:Oh, and by the way, I have the simulated sine wave UPS shown in my signature and it works perfectly with the Enermax MODU+82 PSU in my signature.

The question remains are the Sea Sonic X650 and X750 compatible with simulated sine wave?

The Enermax MODU+82 works without issues with simulated sine wave and that is a fact. Now go and get some facts from Sea Sonic whether or not their X series is compatible with simulated sine wave, if they know.

Hey JVM, guess what, Sea Sonic just said their PSUs have zero problems with simulated sine waves so you shouldn't worry about any compatible issues.

Feel better?
Not until they tell me that, or put it in the manual. You spoke to them on Saturday morning. :roll:

Of course they didn't answer on Saturday you nut.
Even if they did, are you going to go out and buy one? Most likely not.

Why should anyone want to help you with your nasty attitude, so take a hike.

Here, read this: http://www.extremeoverclocking.com/revi ... UPS_6.html

JVM
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Post by JVM » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:58 am

So when did Seasonic tell you their X series is compatible with simulated sine wave?

What is your point of that article?

"Of course they didn't answer on Saturday you nut."

You are the one who said "Hey JVM, guess what, Sea Sonic just said their PSUs have zero problems with simulated sine waves so you shouldn't worry about any compatible issues."

That was posted this morning--your second post this morning, on Saturday morning!

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Post by JVM » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:13 am

bjojoj wrote:Enermax seem to be on the way with a couple of 80plus gold PSU's as well:
http://www.enermaxusa.com/support/downl ... atalog.pdf
(First page to the left)

I have no idea as to when it will hit the market or under what name though.
Looks very interesting! Seems like there is a "gold rush." :lol:

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Post by NeilBlanchard » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:43 am

Hi,

And the Enermax lineup is a lot more sensible: 450watt, 550watt, and a 650watt model.

JVM
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Post by JVM » Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:03 am

I never heard of that Magma fan, but comments on newegg.com appear favorable. From the Enermax website on Magma fan

"Revolutionary “Twisterâ€

Vibrator
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Post by Vibrator » Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:18 am

I wouldn't put "bigger heatsink needed" as a con.

JonnyGuru and a couple other review sites tested the Seasonic X series PSU's before and the exhaust temps were quite nice. Seasonic knew what they were doing.

It seems the higher efficiency means less heat produced.

bjojoj
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Post by bjojoj » Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:48 pm

NeilBlanchard wrote:And the Enermax lineup is a lot more sensible: 450watt, 550watt, and a 650watt model.
Thought so too. Still impressive efficiency numbers from the Seasonic all the way from 10-100% load though!

bjojoj
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Post by bjojoj » Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:53 pm

Vibrator wrote:It seems the higher efficiency means less heat produced.
Bang on target :D
After all, what is lost on the way from AC-DC becomes heat

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Post by EsaT » Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:56 pm

MikeC wrote:
You mention the P182 but what about people such as rpsgc interested with a Solo?
The standard hot box testing result applies. Nothing special about PSU cooling in the Solo.

It's simple enough to summarize:
1) Keep the immediate temperature around the PSU to under 25C and the fan won't start up till >300W. When/if it does, it will still be about as quiet as any PSU you can buy.
2) The higher the immediate temp around the PSU, the lower the load point at which the fan will start up. It's directly tied to temperature.
Yeah... from thermal point of view Solo and every PSU on top case is hot box for PSU with that heater also known as CPU immediately under it.

Now this fanless operation of PSU at low internal temperatures actually rises one question considering dual chamber case design: One of its goals is to cool HDDs in lower chamber by slight airflow created by PSUs fan for minimizing number of necessary fans so what kind effect PSU's fan stopping has to their temperatures.
Of course HDDs won't generate that much heat but acoustically good soft mounting prevents cooling by conduction to metal structure of case and when you start adding HDDs close to each others their heat will fast add up if there's no airflow.
At least in Sonata effect to HDD temps is very noticeable when side is opened and airflow past HDDs stops.

JVM wrote:Do you use a simulated sine wave UPS? If you do, you may certainly buy the Seasonic and let us know.
With that good electric and acoustic performance I'll probably get this new Seasonic after price settles but my APC Back-UPS Pro 650 got replaced by MGE Pulsar Evolution 1500 and only square wave (nothing sine wave in them) UPS I can get my hands on is low power one from time when graphics cards didn't need any extra power cables or motherboards separate power cables for CPU.
I do know CyberPower and APC both say there can be issues with an active PFC unit, and CyberPower added high efficiency active PFC as another concern. Why don't you call them and ask? After all, they do represent the company making UPS and no need for them to talk you out of buying their unit.
You forgot that in your country they need to legally cover their rear to not be sued from god knows what.

Fred
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Post by Fred » Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:01 pm

bjojoj wrote:Enermax seem to be on the way with a couple of 80plus gold PSU's as well:
http://www.enermaxusa.com/support/downl ... atalog.pdf
(First page to the left)

I have no idea as to when it will hit the market or under what name though.
Now, let's pray that the 450W model will be modular too. Lower wattage models usually fall victims to suckage. :<

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Post by JVM » Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:46 pm

EsaT wrote:
MikeC wrote:
You mention the P182 but what about people such as rpsgc interested with a Solo?
The standard hot box testing result applies. Nothing special about PSU cooling in the Solo.

It's simple enough to summarize:
1) Keep the immediate temperature around the PSU to under 25C and the fan won't start up till >300W. When/if it does, it will still be about as quiet as any PSU you can buy.
2) The higher the immediate temp around the PSU, the lower the load point at which the fan will start up. It's directly tied to temperature.
Yeah... from thermal point of view Solo and every PSU on top case is hot box for PSU with that heater also known as CPU immediately under it.

Now this fanless operation of PSU at low internal temperatures actually rises one question considering dual chamber case design: One of its goals is to cool HDDs in lower chamber by slight airflow created by PSUs fan for minimizing number of necessary fans so what kind effect PSU's fan stopping has to their temperatures.
Of course HDDs won't generate that much heat but acoustically good soft mounting prevents cooling by conduction to metal structure of case and when you start adding HDDs close to each others their heat will fast add up if there's no airflow.
At least in Sonata effect to HDD temps is very noticeable when side is opened and airflow past HDDs stops.

JVM wrote:Do you use a simulated sine wave UPS? If you do, you may certainly buy the Seasonic and let us know.
With that good electric and acoustic performance I'll probably get this new Seasonic after price settles but my APC Back-UPS Pro 650 got replaced by MGE Pulsar Evolution 1500 and only square wave (nothing sine wave in them) UPS I can get my hands on is low power one from time when graphics cards didn't need any extra power cables or motherboards separate power cables for CPU.
I do know CyberPower and APC both say there can be issues with an active PFC unit, and CyberPower added high efficiency active PFC as another concern. Why don't you call them and ask? After all, they do represent the company making UPS and no need for them to talk you out of buying their unit.
You forgot that in your country they need to legally cover their rear to not be sued from god knows what.
I discovered the issue with active PFC and simulated sine wave by accident when looking for a UPS. Yes, there can be issues and it has nothing to do with legality.

Would you rather they lie to you over the phone and be stuck with a unit that had issues and you couldn't sue because you couldn't prove that conversation?

Enermax said one of their previous PSU's was not compatible with simulated sine wave. Remember, I am not saying all active PFC units will cause a problem, just that one should check and be safe than sorry.

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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:42 pm

newyork wrote:
JVM wrote:Oh, and by the way, I have the simulated sine wave UPS shown in my signature and it works perfectly with the Enermax MODU+82 PSU in my signature.

The question remains are the Sea Sonic X650 and X750 compatible with simulated sine wave?

The Enermax MODU+82 works without issues with simulated sine wave and that is a fact. Now go and get some facts from Sea Sonic whether or not their X series is compatible with simulated sine wave, if they know.

Hey JVM, guess what, Sea Sonic just said their PSUs have zero problems with simulated sine waves so you shouldn't worry about any compatible issues.

Feel better?
hey, just wondering, where are you from?

newyork
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Post by newyork » Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:57 am

~El~Jefe~ wrote:
newyork wrote:
JVM wrote:Oh, and by the way, I have the simulated sine wave UPS shown in my signature and it works perfectly with the Enermax MODU+82 PSU in my signature.

The question remains are the Sea Sonic X650 and X750 compatible with simulated sine wave?

The Enermax MODU+82 works without issues with simulated sine wave and that is a fact. Now go and get some facts from Sea Sonic whether or not their X series is compatible with simulated sine wave, if they know.

Hey JVM, guess what, Sea Sonic just said their PSUs have zero problems with simulated sine waves so you shouldn't worry about any compatible issues.

Feel better?
hey, just wondering, where are you from?
El Jefe,
Long story short, JVM made issue of UPS simulated sine wave and Sea Sonic units will or will not work because he was not able to get straight answer from company as compared to Enermax telling JVM yes or no.

I said I will give it a go and got info from Sea Sonic that it all depends on the quality of the simulated wave form of the UPS which, IMO, sounds fair enough. Then JVM goes off on me about getting the answer and stuff like that, so I just wrote the above to him as a goof... Try to help, get kicked in the ass, nice....

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Post by bozar » Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:21 am

This PSU should work really well with a case with bottom-ventilated PSU-mounting, I surely hope more manufacturers comes up with semi-fanless 80 Plus Gold branded PSUs.

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Post by JVM » Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:41 am

newyork wrote:
~El~Jefe~ wrote:
newyork wrote:
Hey JVM, guess what, Sea Sonic just said their PSUs have zero problems with simulated sine waves so you shouldn't worry about any compatible issues.

Feel better?
hey, just wondering, where are you from?
El Jefe,
Long story short, JVM made issue of UPS simulated sine wave and Sea Sonic units will or will not work because he was not able to get straight answer from company as compared to Enermax telling JVM yes or no.

I said I will give it a go and got info from Sea Sonic that it all depends on the quality of the simulated wave form of the UPS which, IMO, sounds fair enough. Then JVM goes off on me about getting the answer and stuff like that, so I just wrote the above to him as a goof... Try to help, get kicked in the ass, nice....
El Jefe,

This guy has a serious problem telling the truth. He never said what he now claims Seasonic said. This is what he said Seasonic told him: "Their guy said it really depends on which UPS you use because depending on the quality of the UPS will end up generating different types of Sine Wave."

Of course there are different types of sine wave: simulated and pure sine wave.

Furthermore, Enermax not only told me over the phone about compatibility with simulated sine wave and no issues--they have it in the manual for MODU82+ as being compatible with simulated sine wave. No ifs ands or buts, compatible with simulated sine wave--period. If someone would like to know how they know that, you can either call them or send an email to inquire.

I called Seasonic and was told "I don't think there is a problem with simulated sine wave." I emailed them in Taiwan a number of days ago and never received a reply.

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Post by RoGuE » Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:17 pm

This thread is one of the biggest e-drama threads I've read in a long time lmao gave me a good laugh.

Let's get this out of the way: the whole argument about the simulated sign wave is downright silly. Here's the thing JVM, when input electricity is messed with in anyway (as in not coming right out of the wall), it can cause certain compatability issues as you very well know. The only reason you can't get a straight answer from seasonic or whoever, is they don't wanna tell you - YES, it's compatible, or No, it isnt, because truth is, they don't really know! If your UPS is well designed, and the PFC and simulated wave is to spec, then it should be compatible with every PSU on the market!

However, if it is getting old, and perhaps slipping even slightly out of spec, then there is no telling if it will work with a PSU or not. It really is THAT simple.


%%%%%%%%%%%

Thanks for the review, Mike. This PSU will definately be on my radar when I go for my next performance build. Yeah, it's expensive, but efficiencys like that are really something to pay for IMO. The thing probably has no problem outlasting every other component in the average PC as a result. (heat slowly kills stuff over time, and this has minimal heat generation).

-RoGuE

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Post by JVM » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:49 am

RoGuE wrote:This thread is one of the biggest e-drama threads I've read in a long time lmao gave me a good laugh.

Let's get this out of the way: the whole argument about the simulated sign wave is downright silly. Here's the thing JVM, when input electricity is messed with in anyway (as in not coming right out of the wall), it can cause certain compatability issues as you very well know. The only reason you can't get a straight answer from seasonic or whoever, is they don't wanna tell you - YES, it's compatible, or No, it isnt, because truth is, they don't really know! If your UPS is well designed, and the PFC and simulated wave is to spec, then it should be compatible with every PSU on the market!

However, if it is getting old, and perhaps slipping even slightly out of spec, then there is no telling if it will work with a PSU or not. It really is THAT simple.

-RoGuE
Have you not read I said Enermax told me over the phone their MODU82+ is compatible with simulated sine wave without any issues, the MODU82+ manual states compatibility with simulated sine wave, and Enermax did say an older Infinity was not compatible. Seasonic is the one who can't give a yes or no, but I did get "I don't think..."

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Post by Olle P » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:31 am

One little detailed that's been argued at Hardware Secrets: Is OCP there or not?

1) To fulfil the ATX standard it must have OCP. (The PSU also must be a little shorter than it is to fit within the physical ATX-limitations.)
2) Your review list OCP as a feature claimed on Seasonic's site.
3) OCP is not presented as one of the protections listed in the manual.
4) When I check Seasonic's site I can't find OCP mentioned anywhere for this PSU.
5) The PSU doesn't shut off when drawing 66A on the 12V-line (10% above nominal).

Comments on this?
Olle

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Post by Compddd » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:42 am

Enermax could come out with a 80+ Platnium rated PSU and I still would never buy a PSU from them again after dealing with this Modu82+ 625W

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Post by b_rubenstein » Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:31 pm

Olle P wrote:One little detailed that's been argued at Hardware Secrets: Is OCP there or not?


Comments on this?
Olle
From the Hardware Secrets review:

For this test we set +5 V and +3.3 V inputs from our load tester to pull only 1 A each and maxed out the two +12 V inputs for a total of 66 A. The power supply didn’t shut down, meaning that OCP is not present or is configured at a value above that. The manufacturer does not list OCP as a feature, so the first option seems to be the correct one.

The idea behind of overload tests is to see if the power supply will burn/explode and see if the protections from the power supply are working correctly. This power supply didn’t burn or explode. Even under this overloading efficiency was still very good.

This was with the PS putting out almost 800w. Gabe does very good reviews, and if he didn't think the lack of OCP was I big deal I wouldn't worry about it either.

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Post by porkchop » Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:06 pm

very impressive psu.

with fan controllers like this, it raises the question whether you can simulate something similar with your own psu.
for example: with a low powered system drawing <100w on load, would it be safe to run a 80plus 120mm fan psu fanless, with the fan hole facing upwards?

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Post by Olle P » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:22 am

b_rubenstein wrote:For this test we ... maxed out the two +12 V inputs for a total of 66 A. The power supply didn’t shut down, meaning that OCP is not present or is configured at a value above that. The manufacturer does not list OCP as a feature, so the first option seems to be the correct one.
This was with the PS putting out almost 800w. Gabe does very good reviews, and if he didn't think the lack of OCP was I big deal I wouldn't worry about it either.
The overcurrent test was pulling only 10% over the nominal limit, which is less than most PSUs with OCP will let through before shutting down.
Then Gabe reduced the 12V output and drew more from the other lines to achieve >800W output.

It's not something I worry about, just an issue where I'd like some clarification.

Cheers
Olle

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Post by twoscoreandfour » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:00 am

Is this thing shipping anywhere other than US?

I can't find it anywhere in Australia.

Mike, do you know anything about international availability?

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Post by RBBOT » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:32 am

nutball wrote:No way I'm going to be touching these at the price they're at. I'm expecting them to cost the thick end of £150(=$240) when they hit the UK, that's just too much money.
Acutally, they are £115 at scan.co.uk. Its £17 more than an antec signature. I worked out that if you are drawing 200W the cost difference between 85% and 90% efficiency is only £2.86 a year for 5 hours daily use so its going to take some time to be worth it purely on economics, although that doesn't take noise and heat into account.

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Post by MikeC » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:45 am

A correction just posted on page 3 of the review:
Postscript Note, Nov 5/09: It was pointed out to us by a sharp-eyed reader that the internal photos shown below are from an X750. We had just received the X750 sample when this review was being posted, and photos of both PSUs were taken at the same time. The photos of the two samples got mixed up accidentally; the two PSUs look identical internally except for the value of some of the capacitors, which are all rated 105°C. Rest assured that there was no confusion or mixup about the test results; they are for the X650 we tested and the conclusions remain unchanged.

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Post by JamieG » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:06 pm

twoscoreandfour wrote:Is this thing shipping anywhere other than US?

I can't find it anywhere in Australia.
X-650: http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?mai ... s_id=12907 - $215
X-750: http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?mai ... s_id=12908 - $235

Arriving at the end of November.

dhanson865
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Post by dhanson865 » Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:23 pm

dhanson865 wrote:Anybody have an idea of price in US$?

Seasonic SS-550LT, SS-650KM, SS-750KM
SS-550LT
SS-650KM
SS-750KM
Still no price on the 550LT

X650 $150 shipped to my house from at least 3 vendors that show stock. One specified 15 units in stock the other two just said in stock with no specified quantity.

X750 $170 similar stock as above.

I'm still not seeing the 550LT whatever they end up calling it on the retail market.

Compddd
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Post by Compddd » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:17 pm

I've seen the X750 for $155 at some places on google shopping. Going to have to pick one up soon :)

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Post by colm » Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:26 am

dhanson865 wrote:
dhanson865 wrote:Anybody have an idea of price in US$?

Seasonic SS-550LT, SS-650KM, SS-750KM
SS-550LT
SS-650KM
SS-750KM
Still no price on the 550LT

X650 $150 shipped to my house from at least 3 vendors that show stock. One specified 15 units in stock the other two just said in stock with no specified quantity.

X750 $170 similar stock as above.

I'm still not seeing the 550LT whatever they end up calling it on the retail market.
I seek the 550 too.
The power supply history of components, its terrible.
even the mosfet began in 1925. This array stuff, is new for pc thoughts I can assume? Anyway, one of an array just popped off my motherboard....but at 23900 hours versus the 16k I am lucky to get past.
It is power related, no sine wave quibbles, no more excuses, the crazy power kills the pc. 12 caps on the cpu circuit means nothing.

The array boards in the psu from my point of view, a regular dummy like myself, can only guess this will take over. put those coils back in antique telephones. 8)
That goes for those damned skin melting hamburg smelling electrolytic caps. with the mosfets in the power, no data and crazy not-thought-abouts attacking it, the motherboards could get less babbled too.
I look forward to real proces, and even then, I may pay alot anyway, just for my own thoughts and decade of demises for no reason...but power..

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Post by Rebellious » Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:23 pm

When it runs fanless, a negative pressure case could cause heat from PSU to back INTO the case?

Why do they have 2 different output plugs labeled MB? They should color-code plugs and cables so you know what goes where.

Also the cables don’t look interchangeable with the older M12 series, so I feel free to change brands now
8)

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