400W/460W fanless 80PLUS Gold PSU from Seasonic

PSUs: The source of DC power for all components in the PC & often a big noise source.

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netmask254
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400W/460W fanless 80PLUS Gold PSU from Seasonic

Post by netmask254 » Mon May 31, 2010 8:17 pm

I don't know whether it's really Gold, since not able to find it in 80PLUS certification website. Anyway, it's awesome, enjoy it.

http://www.seasonic.com/new/twevent20100525.htm

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Last edited by netmask254 on Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

bozar
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Post by bozar » Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:26 am

Would this be possible to run fanless inside a P182 or would it cause overheating?

netmask254
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Post by netmask254 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:37 am

If a P18X with separate chamber for PSU can't work, then which case can?

It's interesting that from the unclear pictures, we didn't see huge heat sink inside, just somewhat similar with X-650 which has almost none heat sink. I'm very interesting that even with 90% efficiency, the 40~45W heat is generated and should be quite hot (similar with HD5670 or E8400 CPU), how is the PSU cooled?

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Post by frostedflakes » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:04 am

Saw this on another forum and came here to post it. I was too late, though. :lol:

Very exciting products, can't wait until Mike is able to get his hands on one. It does appear to have more/bigger heatsinks that the X-650, though, and the case is also more open.

tjtj
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Post by tjtj » Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:37 am

netmask254 wrote:If a P18X with separate chamber for PSU can't work, then which case can?

It's interesting that from the unclear pictures, we didn't see huge heat sink inside, just somewhat similar with X-650 which has almost none heat sink. I'm very interesting that even with 90% efficiency, the 40~45W heat is generated and should be quite hot (similar with HD5670 or E8400 CPU), how is the PSU cooled?
Some guesswork:
Having a bigger internal heatsink might not help a lot when you have no fan, it will only heat the air inside the supply even more. It is probably better to just let the components transfer the heat to the power supply chassi where it can dissipate.
And 50W is not that much for a big component like a power supply with a lot of area where heat can dissipate, it is very different from 50W inside a small CPU chip.

But I'd really like to se a fanless supply with a heatpipe cooler on the back that transfer the heat outside the chassi.


But I really like these power supplies, finally a 80 plus gold fanless supply :-)

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Post by b_rubenstein » Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:50 am

netmask254 wrote:... how is the PSU cooled?
If there is a case fan, then there will be a differential pressure between the inside and outside of the case. This will generate airflow inside the PS.

If the PS is in a separate chamber, with no fan, it will a combination of convection and radiant cooling.

netmask254
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Post by netmask254 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:50 am

I agree with you on this.

Recent days I'm thinking that for a fanless PSU, whether the traditional case (such like Antec Solo) mounting PSU on top is more suitable or not, comparing with the advanced P18X (or those case mounting PSU at bottom) with independent air flow for PSU. For traditional layout, a rear case fan can not only pull hot air from CPU, but also the hot air from PSU when it's too hot, then the hot air will not be accumulated and looks like more safe. But SPCR's testing of X-650 clearly shows that P18X performs better than the hot box when fan doesn't spin up (equivalent to passive PSU).

Anyway, when more silencers begin to use fanless PSU, this will be more clear.

netmask254
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Post by netmask254 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:51 am

frostedflakes wrote:Saw this on another forum and came here to post it. I was too late, though. :lol:

Very exciting products, can't wait until Mike is able to get his hands on one. It does appear to have more/bigger heatsinks that the X-650, though, and the case is also more open.
I heard the rumor of the new X-series PSU one week before :-)

This morning when I read the post and confirm it is true, I'm very excited.

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Post by KTE » Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:00 pm

The 400W is one I'm extremely interested to see 20W, 30W and 40W DC load tests of. The rest doesn't benefit anything to me. Can't say that I'm not saddened with no standard ATX 180-300W 80Plus designs being shown off and bragged about at such limelight shows.

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Post by yuu » Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:17 am

So you are willing to get 400 psu, to with 40W load, interesting,

Unfortunately 400 model likely will never be mass produced, it starts from 660W and above, the 760 being priced +20$.

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Post by elpibe10 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:55 am

yuu wrote:So you are willing to get 400 psu, to with 40W load, interesting,

Unfortunately 400 model likely will never be mass produced, it starts from 660W and above, the 760 being priced +20$.
Both the 400W and 460W will be mass produced and available soon as confirmed by the Seasonic distributor for Singapore :
Bluegrass_Corbel wrote:LOL, the new models will not be ready so soon

only the Fanless 400/460 will be ready first
Read the entire thread about the new Seasonic X-Series here :

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showt ... ?t=2784297

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Post by KTE » Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:10 pm

yuu wrote:So you are willing to get 400 psu, to with 40W load, interesting,
Yep.

1. Assumption: If it's designed for 300-400W passive, it can run lower watts with less heat output, easier (and since it is passive, I expect good suitability for low airflow system designs as well as good efficiency lower down).

2. Can't get a single decent silver/gold 80Plus rated standard PSU with Seasonic S12 comparable noise/control here, anywhere.

3. Everything I've seen lacks the connectors I require, let alone size/fan size/fan placement problems.

4. My second SS S12 II recently failed in 18 months so I'm currently running a backup 2005 SS S12 330W and a 2006 SS S12 330W for the time being. The latter of which was "evicted" from a work machine after the Hardware Test Engineer measured 62W DC load at 66% efficiency. It still runs tip top elsewhere but the efficiency has dropped a few percent lower from the first 2 years. My system however hovers at 0-10W around idle wattage 99.999% of the time. Idle is 30W DC. Right now, anything that can better these PSUs in efficiency from 20-60W DC, with stability, is game for me and I'd pay.

5. I test new components and add components within my main home AIO every day; components I bring back from work either to test, evaluate or use for some task. It's part and parcel of my work. Sometimes that becomes 6* PCIe HDDs + GPU, with the stock 2* ODD + 2* HDD + IGP still there. So demand for wattage rises massively, although momentary, I need to keep covered upto 250W.

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Post by doveman » Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:29 am

I wonder if in a standard case these would work better upside down, with a hole cut in the top of the case to allow cool air in, rather than hot air from inside the case?

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Post by sub » Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:05 am

I've read on pcworld.fr they don't come out before August and the launch price for the 400w will be 160$ :?

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Post by ryboto » Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:18 am

For that price, you might as well just get a x-650 which is basically passive for most of the workloads I do. I've got a 400W passive FSP Zen, still kicking in a very low airflow HTPC.

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hmm, non-standard length?

Post by sgtpokey » Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:07 am

I think in the image, the dimensions state 180 cm in length, whereas the "standard" is usually 160 cm.

This might not fit in my HTPC case due to it's unique PSU positioning...

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Post by MikeC » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:08 pm

doveman wrote:I wonder if in a standard case these would work better upside down, with a hole cut in the top of the case to allow cool air in, rather than hot air from inside the case?
Consider the close proximity of the back panel exhaust fan and the PSU in a conventional ATX tower case. With generously vented passive PSUs like these new Seasonics and earlier FSPs, the back panel exhaust fan generally ends up pulling outside air in through the PSU. While this does not do much for cooling of other components in the case, it does tend to keep the PSU cool.

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Post by doveman » Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:59 am

Thanks for that Mike. Good point that I hadn't considered. Saves me hacking a hole in the top of my case!

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Post by netmask254 » Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:42 am

sub wrote:I've read on pcworld.fr they don't come out before August and the launch price for the 400w will be 160$ :?
If it launches at this price, I'd like to say it's pretty attracting to me (considering the price of Silverstone ST45NF). Though X-650 may be more cost-effective, for silencers' typical load (<200W) the 400W PSU can achieve better efficiency.

The air flow may be a problem for traditional case such like Antec Solo, considering the vents of case fan and PSU are too close.

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Post by MikeC » Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:43 am

netmask254 --

You missed my last post: the back panel exhaust fan generally ends up pulling outside air in through an openly vented passive psu.

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Post by FrankL » Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:23 am

could someone please help me refresh my memory on the following issue:

Why would one buy a fanless PSU of this size (400+ Watts), if the components pulling this much juice most definitely would require at least some form of forced convection cooling (requiring at least one casefan).

Why not combine the casefan with the PSU? That would increase the lifespan of the PSU as well probably, as temps in the PSU would be lower.

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Post by doveman » Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:25 am

dZeus wrote:could someone please help me refresh my memory on the following issue:

Why would one buy a fanless PSU of this size (400+ Watts), if the components pulling this much juice most definitely would require at least some form of forced convection cooling (requiring at least one casefan).

Why not combine the casefan with the PSU? That would increase the lifespan of the PSU as well probably, as temps in the PSU would be lower.
Well here's one reason. Because PSU fans can (and do) develop faults/ticks and they can't be replaced without voiding the warranty, so the whole PSU has to be RMA'd, which is a major pain particularly in those cases where the motherboard has to be removed to get the PSU out.

A faulty case fan can be swapped out much more easily.

I have been considering that the hard drive(s) will probably be more audible than any Nexus Value 430 or even slightly louder PSUs, but for the RMA reason I'd consider a fanless PSU. Although looking at the predicted price for this, I'm more likely to just get a normal quiet modular PSU.

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Post by Luke M » Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:01 pm

If a fanless power supply were designed for front to back airflow (unlike this one), then it would offer the potential advantage of using a large front case fan to cool the power supply without the 90 degree turn of a built-in 120mm fan.

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Post by MikeC » Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:56 pm

Luke M wrote:If a fanless power supply were designed for front to back airflow (unlike this one), then it would offer the potential advantage of using a large front case fan to cool the power supply without the 90 degree turn of a built-in 120mm fan.
No such animal. Very difficult to achieve if you consider where wires have to go, and clearance required on the panel where the 120mm fan usually goes.

Besides, this discussion about airflow around fanless PSUs is more conjecture and practical observations than definite design goals. I mean that I observe what happens with fanless PSUs I've tested and used, and I know that what I say about case fans and well-vented fanless PSUs to be true... but this does not mean the products were necessarily designed with such usage in mind. I think most fanless PSUs are designed with the assumption of some forced airflow in the system -- not a completely fanless system, which most consumers cannot execute properly -- and exactly how that airflow gets to the PSU matters less than the fact that it's there.

dZeus's question has relevance, because some buyers will think, "oh, good, I will combine this fanless PSU with a fanless CPU cooler, this SSD and this fanless video card and stick it in this normal ATX PC case and have a complete silent PC, the kind those fanatics at SPCR claim is so hard to make".... and watch everything cook under a 3D gaming load (or not, if the room is cool and the system not too power hungry).

In computer component marketing, the word fanless is tricky. Fanless almost always means no fan embedded or attached to the component -- not that it doesn't need some airflow. But it is possible with careful design to make a completely fanless system -- you just can't expect to have a 400W fanless system -- 100W or less at peak is probably the maximum I would try running fanlesslessly without a dedicated "heatsink case" -- and only with the most low- or no-airflow optimized heatsinks for everything. And not if the ambient is often >30C.

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Post by Luke M » Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:46 pm

MikeC wrote:
Luke M wrote:If a fanless power supply were designed for front to back airflow (unlike this one), then it would offer the potential advantage of using a large front case fan to cool the power supply without the 90 degree turn of a built-in 120mm fan.
No such animal. Very difficult to achieve if you consider where wires have to go, and clearance required on the panel where the 120mm fan usually goes.
I don't think it's difficult, it just requires feature compromises (no modular connectors). Lots of old ATX power supplies had no top/bottom venting.
MikeC wrote:In computer component marketing, the word fanless is tricky. Fanless almost always means no fan embedded or attached to the component -- not that it doesn't need some airflow. But it is possible with careful design to make a completely fanless system -- you just can't expect to have a 400W fanless system -- 100W or less at peak is probably the maximum I would try running fanlesslessly without a dedicated "heatsink case" -- and only with the most low- or no-airflow optimized heatsinks for everything. And not if the ambient is often >30C.
Yep. The other thing is that CPUs and GPUs can throttle down if they overheat, but power supplies can't do anything except shut down. So the power supply fan is probably the last one that should be removed from a system.

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Post by Jay_S » Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:27 pm

Thread resurrection!

Bit-Tech has a preview of the fanless X-series with some nice hi-res pics:
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/psus/2 ... -fanless/1

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Post by sub » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:13 am

hi,

Here another review in french for the canadians of the forum

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Post by MikeC » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:37 am

sub wrote:hi,

Here another review in french for the canadians of the forum
Amazing that no one has ever mentioned this site's PSU test system is a direct copy of SPCR's... but w/ a much higher noise floor.

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Post by atmartens » Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:20 am

MikeC wrote:
sub wrote:hi,

Here another review in french for the canadians of the forum
Amazing that no one has ever mentioned this site's PSU test system is a direct copy of SPCR's... but w/ a much higher noise floor.
Well, at least they write their own content, in a different language.

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Post by MikeC » Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:40 am

I wasn't complaining about them, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery... just that w/ all the forum members from EU, it is surprising no one ever mentioned it here or directly to me.

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