quest_for_silence wrote:No, I think you probably misunderstand: my answers were concise and at the same time aimed to be somehow precise.
You are pretty arrogant, you know that? But I guess you soften down the road.
It mainly depends of the words of choice: if you don't like flat ribbon cables, there's no issue, I don't like them either.
If you call them "cheap", they're not cheap, and they are used on lots of expensive PSUs, like the quoted HXi-series, or, for instance, the expensive Seasonic Platinum (so, basically, you're wrong calling them "cheap").
You should look at the RM's package, how utterly barren it is from a real value point of view. You say it is overpriced and I agree, but that nonwithstanding, just check the contents:
- cheapest possible tie wraps
- no documentation
- a bag containing the cables that you need to rip apart and won't be able to use any after unless you (uglily) tie it together again with tape.
Earlier I've had a Tagan PSU that came with like coloured, funny, removable tiewraps (not sure how to call them, the sticky stuff you see on shoes etc.) and that had amazing material.
The cables are cheap because even though from a certain perspective technically they may be sound or superior, from another technical perspective, the material used may very well be poisonous. It is a regression, not progress. Someone once said:
It is the mark of a primitive mind to view regression as progress.
So that is what I alluding to.
Apparently some people have thought that those cables have some electrical characteristics that are worth mentioning; I don't really care. But most in our society is regressing, if I now look at those cables of older PSUs, more thought has gone into them, for sure. It has been an evolution in design, and this current thing seems to be a fad. People have loved and enjoyed sleeved cables for decades and in areas where user experience or high value dominates, sleeved cables are still the only thing people want, usually, or that provides a premium to most people, think high end audio cables.
Then, even though perhaps some of that new cable design could be called superior, 90% of it is rotten crap. "Stealth" cables? Who came up with that... my regular sleeved yellow-and-red (and black) Seasonic cables look a 1000 times better. Personal preference perhaps but we are all the same people in the end and there is a common consensus about what looks good and what doesn't.
I think the Tagan looked best of all of what I've owned thus far.
So if you spend all of your energy on boosting some electrical characteristic, and go with some meaningless fad in every other aspect, then your end product is cheap even if a lot of people seem to pay a lot for it.
And I'm not talking of those electrical properties when I call it cheap. I am talking just about:
- external material
- choice to produce all-black ribboned cables like
we're back with the flat IDE cables of beyond which we apparently are.
Hence it is regression.
Expensive is what the fool pays for it. That doesn't mean it is high quality. That doesn't mean a good amount of time and thinking has gone into it. Hence, since little was invested, it is cheap.
But if all you do is refute every claim I make, then yes you are claiming that this new thing is superior. If only by implication.
There would be no other reason to say those things, you see.
It's like someone decided that colours were not useful in product design; and we see this in Microsoft's lineage thus far and also in KDE Plasma 5.
People reduce icons and whatnot to a reduced monochrome colour set. You can bet Windows 10 feels a lot cheaper, and it definitely hasn't seen the kind of development (for QUALITY) that Windows 7 or Windows XP have had.
Things go wrong in Windows 10 that never went wrong before. The start menu half of the time stops working for a lot of people. It just won't open. That's not a product that has seen a lot of real love poured into it prior to release, or any date after. Still people will claim that it is "ahead" or "superior" or "it can do more" or whatever. So Microsoft dumped a lot of the old, a lot of what worked, and went with something butt ugly (the tiles). And nobody really likes it. It's flashy, it's modern, but it's alienating and hideous. And only because they wanted to marry tablet and pc.
Which is like a mistake to begin with, but that aside.
So you see the same kind of effect with these PSUs: a heritage of things that really worked, is being abandoned, in favour of something that has the air of advancement and superiority but that is really a detriment.
I have had more problems with Windows 10 in 2 months than I have had with Windows XP in perhaps 7 years.
I guess it's an experiment and that be as it may. Though I don't have to like or enjoy it, and neither does anyone else. I have never seen such a cheap packaging for these cables either (From Corsair, at this point).
That kinda goes to show, what their mindset is with these products. The cardboard box. Definitely lower quality than the Tagan. Even worse than the Nexus Value. I don't remember the other Corsair. That was not as bad.
So even though you may call these cables expensive because they are seen on expensive products, I really do believe they are extremely budget to produce. Just my gist, my hint. My suspect. My suspicion.
Though there is something fishy about the plastic. Outer layer. You should compare it to e.g. an Onkyo micro-set, how much care goes into that (relatively speaking).
Moreover, as you may have noted, I didn't comment about you calling the RM as "cheap", because it's an overpriced but cheap unit.
Its main strenght is that it's really quiet.
Sure but if a person says "The sky is warm" and you say "this part of the sky is cold" that serves to 'disparage' or 'dissuade' the person from saying these things. There is no reason for you to say that the sky is cold in some other part. That's like someone saying 'It's so hot in here!" and you say "If you go sit under that rock, it's cold." that is not really a friendly thing to do
as if that means the previous statement was not true, by implication.
"It is not hot in here
BECAUSE under that rock it is cool." is actually what you are saying.
You are just leaving out half the sentence that is actually implied.......
We call this context, you know.
xen wrote:And just because something is more expensive, doesn't make it less cheap. You see what I mean?
Just to be overzealous: cheap is the opposite of expensive, I think you're aware of that.
I guess I answered that.
I guess you're also aware that I'm italian, and I am not able to promptly understand any subtle nuance coming from any irritated customer when expressed in written english. Not to mention you're dutch, IIRC, so english is not your own language too.
That is irrelevant, your English is fine.
Eventually, please, be patient: I didn't mean to piss you off, but if you want to take offense, definitely it's just your problem, not mine, so feel free to go along that route but alone.
That is as hostile as you can get, right here.
xen wrote:Those "Flexforce" cables don't radiate quality at all. Most people that look at it would see a bag of cheap plastic.
Those flat cables are what market demands nowadays, even if you and me don't like them.
That doesn't prove anything.
xen wrote:So you can "prove" all you want that it is better, but that doesn't make it superior.
As said above, I didn't say a word about what is superior, just about what is cheap/not enough expensive, please give a rest to such a complain.
Please give a rest about acting all mighty then.
xen wrote:I have outlined my reasons, you don't have to ignore them either, and you don't have to ridicule my brand choice either.
I didn't put in ridicule your brands of choice
Yes you did, you framed it in such a way as to ridicule my perhaps stubborn insistence upon a threesome of brands.
Otherwise you wouldn't have needed to repeat those three brands verbatim, twice.
To begin with. That is just weakness.
: set aside Silverstone, Antec and Corsair are among my favourite ones, and I currently have some of their PSUs... I just pointed out that as far as I know none of those brands actually build a PSU which fulfill your expressed requirements.
That is fine, but I guess I already somewhat had that impression. Which is why I wouldn't have been able to find it myself. I still like the reference to some models that sport it, but really I guess I was saying it in this way to express some annoyance at the fact that I had already been looking for a long time and there seems to be so little choice.
And that maybe I was the stupid one and I had missed something.... :-/.
Well, no, it's not a matter of different celsius degrees, mostly of a different fan controller. The RM450 and RM550 have a different fan controller than the RM650, which is the worst "sounding" RM of the three different platform used (CWT, Chicony and CWT again).
Oh right, I forgot. Thanks.
You may check the different behaviour of your RM550 fan controller looking at PC Perspective and ComputerBase relevant reviews.
I guess I've been there. My memory of what I have done and said is not exactly outstanding these days, my apologies.
More probably that not, no, particularly in the lower chamber of an Antec P180 and using a Gold-rated PSU: the only wasted heat there is what's due to conversion losses (20W?). On the contrary either a CPU or a GPU may easily dump hundreds of W in an enclosure, heating up the internals.
I don't know (yet, from experience) you know. But the 100W from my CPU/system is enough to heat this entire room (about 3x4 meters [ not only that, but with a very high ceiling, about 48m³ in total ]) + bathroom from being very chilly to being quite nice. Or reasonably bearable. So yes I am talking of conversion losses but also the rare occassion that perhaps some optical drive would be spinning in the future.
It is an enclosed space and I would not know how much of the heat would get trapped in the space. Perhaps it is minor. It would probably raise the ambient temperature some 5 degrees. Over time. Celcius. But you're Italian
. No I did not know.
In any case I prefer some airflow there.
No, as said above, the RM650 behaves differently from the smaller siblings.
Right, my apologies. I guess I was "disoriented" because the review mentioned the 750 and 850 models being "awfully slow in getting the fan running (paraphrased). But you mention the 450 and 550, the 650, and the higher ups, are different models.
xen wrote:By the way, the RM650i (now) has sleeves at least for PCIe and CPU as well:
I thought you already said that, or better, I understood so when I commented (in my previous post) that both the RMi and RMx sports the new, Type 4 cables (those partially sleeved).
Okay well I don't care about "types" but apparently Corsair does. But. I remember seeing an image of some model with only a sleeved ATX cable and may have mixed it up. I guess it was the CS-500M or something.
xen wrote:Still looks like a pretty ugly material, but I guess it's better than entirely without.
I guess it's mostly a matter of personal preferences, you may think to replace them with aftermarket ones (though they're not cheap).
I don't really see how you can prefer this, unless they are into the hype themselves; but then, lots of people are into iPads (and iPhones, etc.) that break upon impact. Some guy here had an iPhone and he is broke all the time. Due to some small accident he dropped it. Broken. One drop. Broken. From about 80cm. Like from a table, like that. Expensive things, weird problematic form factor, too big to carry, too expensive to keep, good for getting stolen, fragile, and nothing more than a sex toy in the sense of it only being "sexy" and not much else.
I'm sorry but I call that stupidity and going crazy for something that has not all that much value or worth. It is not really preference I think. Preference has to belong to your person. It is an individual thing. But these hypes and fads are not expressions of ones individuality.
Oscar Wilde once said:
Fashion is a form of art so hideous we have to change it every six months .
And funny thing, most people who are
ignorant of computer details or said technology, will quickly intuitively assess the thing correctly. They will look at those cables and say "that is nothing special" or at that eggboard box and say "how cheap" and at the unit itself and say "hey this looks kinda nice". It is not special. To feel those things. It is special not to feel those things.
It is not special to dislike those cables. It is rather special and out of the ordinary, to do like them.
If you drop the requirement of a costantly spinning fan, currently the RMi/RMx is one of the best 500 watter in the market. Among similarly priced units, there should be a new FSP coming, the Hydro G (basically the platform used to build the Be Quiet P11), but I don't know the relevant fan profile, so I can't say whether it may be quiet or not.
Okay so now the real question here:
I can change the fan profile of the RMi right?
Using software right?
So I can set a minimum speed, right?
I think I am going to order it anyway (IF that is the case) and otherwise I might just sleeve those cables myself after all. Because a fan profile is pointless if you can't change the min speed.
According to
this blog post The Corsair Link software does feature that. You can set fixed RPM and hence also minimum RPM, I'm sure.
Right?
Then I could get some sleeves from some high end audio retailer (not too expensive) and just fix that myself, perhaps. The plastic would still be rather nasty underneath, but it's not like you have that many choices in the market it seems.