Mystery Whine/Squeal with Seasonic Super Tornado 300 PSU

hmsrolst · Post by **hmsrolst** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 5:12 pm

09/11/2003 8:53 PM

Last week I bought a Seasonic Super Tornado 300 PSU. When I first installed it, it was incredibly quiet. Yesterday I noticed that it had a high-pitched whining/squealing sound. I stripped down the system to just the mobo/CPU to make sure it was the PSU, and that was confirmed. I assumed the PSU was defective, so I tried it in another system, and no squeal. I put it back in the original system and it squealed. I then tried another quiet PSU in the original system, and it didn't whine. The upshot is that the Seasonic only seems to squeal in the one system. It seems like it's the interaction with either the mobo or case. This makes no sense to me, and I'd really appreciate any ideas any of you have. Thanks.

Shadowknight · Post by **Shadowknight** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 5:15 pm

Err... did you make sure to take out the videocard? Depending on what you're running, it could be some sort of side effect if the card and cpu don't have enough power from the PSU.

cliche · Post by **cliche** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 5:16 pm

try mounting it with rubber grommets ?

hmsrolst · Post by **hmsrolst** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 5:57 pm

Video cards are Matrox G550's which don't need that much juice. I've tried the PSU's both in the case and holding it outside with no difference.

MikeP · Post by **MikeP** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 6:15 pm

I have the exact same thing and reported that already in an earlier thread. I checked the power supply and it is when the fan is stopped. Essentially the voltage to the fan is to low to get it spinning but it is high enough to displace it and give it a small back and forth motion or essentially a vibration that causes the whine. I talked to Seasonic about this but they claim they are not aware of it. They offered to exchange it but I declined because I exchanged it already before because of this. It seem this is part of the design and until they change either the fan or the voltage controller to the fan this is not going away. I am planning to wait for a couple of month in the hope they will make a revision to the current design that takes care of this. I also exchanged some email with MikeC that wrote the review on this site and he also claimed he did not have it. This is a major disappointment for a power supply that is otherwise very good.

Shadowknight · Post by **Shadowknight** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 6:56 pm

Well... that sucks.

Makes me glad that my 400w SS hasn't had this problem

cliche · Post by **cliche** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 7:17 pm

phew - almost glad I bought my Seasonic 400 W (non SS).
Was upset at paying £104 UK for it to find the SS and then the Tornado to be out

Still happy now I modded it (twisted intake vent and panaflo L1a in it)

Shadowknight · Post by **Shadowknight** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 7:21 pm

Just a thought... but if you're going to twist the metal out of shape for better airflow, you might as well just cut out the intake vent "bars" with a tin snip tool to get maximum airflow.

I've thought about doing it myself, but figured I'd rather not risk voiding the 3 year warranty.

Bye the way... did you have to solder the Panaflo connector? Or did it just take a standard 3 pin connection?

cliche · Post by **cliche** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 7:33 pm

Shadowknight wrote:Just a thought... but if you're going to twist the metal out of shape for better airflow, you might as well just cut out the intake vent "bars" with a tin snip tool to get maximum airflow.

I've thought about doing it myself, but figured I'd rather not risk voiding the 3 year warranty.

Bye the way... did you have to solder the Panaflo connector? Or did it just take a standard 3 pin connection?

Twisting it has increased the intake area considerably. Decided to keep the vents per se
as I am always sticking my hands in the case and do not accidently want to have this expression ------>

I just followed Mike C's guide : http://www.silentpcreview.com/modules.p ... =83&page=1 - it was EXACTLY the same..

And also followed points 1-3 of his on this thread :

http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=6318

Did another PSU b4 so didn't have a qualm with it. Stock was Waaaay too loud.

Maybe I was expecting too much

hmsrolst · Post by **hmsrolst** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:03 am

MikeP wrote:I have the exact same thing and reported that already in an earlier thread. I checked the power supply and it is when the fan is stopped. Essentially the voltage to the fan is to low to get it spinning but it is high enough to displace it and give it a small back and forth motion or essentially a vibration that causes the whine. I talked to Seasonic about this but they claim they are not aware of it. They offered to exchange it but I declined because I exchanged it already before because of this. It seem this is part of the design and until they change either the fan or the voltage controller to the fan this is not going away. I am planning to wait for a couple of month in the hope they will make a revision to the current design that takes care of this. I also exchanged some email with MikeC that wrote the review on this site and he also claimed he did not have it. This is a major disappointment for a power supply that is otherwise very good.

Thanks, MikeP. I looked at what was going on, and it was just as you described. I'll call Seasonic so that they know this is more than one isolated incident. Other than this problem, this is a great PSU. I put it in a system with 3 80mm L1A's at about 5v (one intake, one exhaust and one on the HS), and even when the fan starts going, it's not audible unless I'm very close to it.

mikellpp · Post by **mikellpp** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:45 am

OK..make me the third person on this thread to confirm the Tornado fan whine (when the fan does not spin). Sent it to Seasonic and they called me to confirm the problem, but they had no answers and are sending a new replacement .

I think MikeC should post a footnote to the Tornado review that makes people aware of this thread, because it sounds like a design problem that could affect a lot of people.

Golgo13 · Post by **Golgo13** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:28 am

mikellpp wrote:OK..make me the third person on this thread to confirm the Tornado fan whine (when the fan does not spin). Sent it to Seasonic and they called me to confirm the problem, but they had no answers and are sending a new replacement .

I think MikeC should post a footnote to the Tornado review that makes people aware of this thread, because it sounds like a design problem that could affect a lot of people.

Wow, I thought my problem (see other tornado noise thread) was unique but perhaps it is symptomatic of a larger problem. I just RMA'd it for a refund and will hold off another Tornado purchase. Hopefully, Seasonic will provide a official response.

Post by **MikeC** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 10:58 am

Hi all. I've been requested directly by an owner of one of these no-fan-start Tornados to contact Seasonic about this problem and to post a note about the issue in the review. I had already sent Seasonic an email about the problem a day or 2 ago & have not yet seen a response. I will add note about this in the review itself later.

Sounds to me like the default voltage on the Tornado may be too low for some fans to start consistently. Perhaps they have cut the min voltage too close to the no-start voltage of the fan. I know that every Panaflo 80L starts every time at 5V. But at 4.5V, 1 out of maybe 5~10 (depending on batch) will not start. When they are at that not-enough-voltage state, some fans do just hang and buzz/humm. I would expect that what is being seen here is a production batch with some fans that need a little more voltage than usual to start.

hitman47 · Post by **hitman47** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:20 am

Shame, my pay comes through tomorrow and I was going to purchase said PSU

So, this does not happen with the Super Silencer Series, just the Tornado?

Kind Regards

P.S. Perhaps they'll fix it with the Tornado 400W??

Post by **MikeC** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:30 pm

Seasonic actually sent me 3 samples -- one a late prototype, and then 2 production samples more recently. None of these exhibit the problem. As I mentioned, it may be specific to a few out-of-spec fans. It may also be that if the default fan feed voltage was tweaked from the ~4.7V I measured to say 4.8 or 4.9, the problem would not not occur regardless of fan sample variation. My conjecture at this point, to be confirmed.

Patrick · Post by **Patrick** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 1:05 pm

I have had my Tornado on 24/7 since I installed it last Friday (09/05/03) and so far no funny noises.

Did any of you happen to write down your serial numbers or anything like that? Maybe we can narrow this problem down to a certain batch?

Not a nice thing to hear, I hope it turns out to be an odd fluke with a brand new model that they get patched up quickly.

Right now it is so very quiet.....

hmsrolst · Post by **hmsrolst** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 3:26 pm

Patrick wrote:I have had my Tornado on 24/7 since I installed it last Friday (09/05/03) and so far no funny noises.

Did any of you happen to write down your serial numbers or anything like that? Maybe we can narrow this problem down to a certain batch?

Not a nice thing to hear, I hope it turns out to be an odd fluke with a brand new model that they get patched up quickly.

Right now it is so very quiet.....

If you've had it on 24/7, you're unlikely to have the problem. After the PSU warms up a bit, maybe in 10 or 15 minutes, the fan turns over and it's fine. My system was in the basement, so it started out pretty cool.

MGP · Post by **MGP** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 7:52 pm

Just wanted to sadly add my name to the "having problems" camp.

How should owners in our exclusive "club"

go about with this issue? My Tornado emits the constant sound (like a alarm far away) and the fan refuses to start after turning the computer on for 10-15 minutes (although the fan does "jerk" for a second upon powering up).

Should we RMA and continue to voice the problems to Seasonic? Or return to the PSU retailer (Fry's in my case) and wait & pray for another revision of the Seasonic Super Tornado 300?

I just went from a Zalman PSU and was very excited about getting the Seasonic, but my first-experience with this particular PSU has been disappointing indeed. Not too great of a first impression on Seasonic so far.

If you've had it on 24/7, you're unlikely to have the problem. After the PSU warms up a bit, maybe in 10 or 15 minutes, the fan turns over and it's fine. My system was in the basement, so it started out pretty cool.

FYI, in my case, the system is in a relatively warm, stuffy dorm room and still the fan doesn't start even when the PC's internal temps hit 36degC.

haysdb · Post by **haysdb** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:16 pm

I have a 300W Super Tornado arriving tomorrow. I leave my PC running 24x7, so even if it has this "startup" problem, it won't annoy me TOO much. What I'm hearing (reading) is that the fan DOES start spinning after the system warms up?

David

MGP · Post by **MGP** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:19 pm

like I said, in my particular situation...

MGP wrote:FYI, in my case, the system is in a relatively warm, stuffy dorm room and still the fan doesn't start even when the PC's internal temps hit 36degC.

but this seems to be limited so far to me.

Hope yours turns out fine!

Post by **MikeC** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 9:28 pm

NEWS from SEASONIC --

I have been asked to convey a message to the early adopters at SPCR.

A brief email from Seasonic confirms my suspicion that a few Super Tornado fans are out of spec and don't start consistently. This happens mostly when the fan is facing down (normal PSU mounting position). They seem to have been tested with the fan facing up. I suppose on an assembly line, that makes sense -- easier to see it spin. The techs discovered that when facing down, the fan requires 0.1~0.2VDC MORE voltage to start. This means a few fans don't get quite enough voltage to start when facing down.

The humming / buzzing is the noise of the fan motor trying to start and overcome its mass inertia without enough voltage.

It apparently affects 2-3% of all Super Tornados.

They've already obtained a new version of the fan that requiress less startup voltage, and this is going into all new production. They will also be replacing all afflicted Super Tornados. An official announcement on this will be forthcoming on their new website www.seasonicusa.com in the next 24-48 hrs.

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:03 pm

Thanks MikeC! Very nice to hear Seasonic are on top of things as well.

I'm eagerly waiting for EU availability of SS and Super Tornado PSUs.

Melluk · Post by **Melluk** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 6:06 am

MikeC wrote: They've already obtained a new version of the fan that requiress less startup voltage, and this is going into all new production.

MikeC, will Seasonic send you a review sample with this new fan?

MGP · Post by **MGP** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 6:59 am

Thanks for the message, MikeC. In the meantime, should Super Tornado owners pay attention to the website for RMA/warranty info? BTW, is there any chance that the new fan could cause the Super Tornado to be less quiet than reviewed at SPCR? Thanks again!

MGP · Post by **MGP** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 7:09 am

btw, just to be sure, does anyone else have problems getting the PSU fan to EVER start running? I watched Bowling For Columbine last evening on my PC's DVD and although temps had gone up, the fan still didnt kick in after well over an hour! The weirdest part is that my PSU is quite cool (based on touching the back honeycomb exhaust) even though the 120mm fan isnt working.

I keep hearing about people's fans not starting initially, but eventually kicking in -- this isn't even the case for me.

hmsrolst · Post by **hmsrolst** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:31 am

MikeC wrote:NEWS from SEASONIC --

This happens mostly when the fan is facing down (normal PSU mounting position).

Interesting. I guess this could account for why I had problems in one system and not the other. Since I ran it outside the second system, it's possible I had it in a different orientation.

Thanks, Mike, for your efforts on our behalf.

Post by **MikeC** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:48 am

Melluk wrote:
MikeC wrote: They've already obtained a new version of the fan that requiress less startup voltage, and this is going into all new production.
MikeC, will Seasonic send you a review sample with this new fan?

I don't believe so. AFAIK, there is NO difference in normal use between the 97-98% of current Tornados that work well and the newer production with the lower start voltage fan. It just means that ALL the Tornados will always start.

And I will make sure the Seasonic rep posts a link here about any official announcement on their web site.

Post by **MikeC** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 2:25 pm

MGP wrote:Thanks for the message, MikeC. In the meantime, should Super Tornado owners pay attention to the website for RMA/warranty info?

Just been informed that Seasonic USA will service any Super Tornado 300 afflicted with the no-start buzzing fan completely free of charge. Shipping to/from will be covered for this RMA. They (and their distributors) will have the new fan later this week. See here for details: http://seasonicusa.com/support.rma.php

Zyzzyx · Post by **Zyzzyx** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 2:41 pm

Damn, that is some service. And quick too.

So far, fewer than 10 cases have been reported in Japan, Taiwan and the US.

Hmm... that probably covers the SPCR folk, right?

MikeK · Post by **MikeK** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:48 am

hehe, yeah we have some power here huh