Fortron FSP300W-PN & Nforce 2 board?

XPav · Post by **XPav** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 11:42 am

Hi folks,

I just got a MSI K7N2GM-L (NForce2 board with integrated everything, including graphics), and am running it on a Fortron FSP300-60PN. Hard drive, 2 optical drives.

Anyway, its having problems -- I suspect software (tried to do a motherboard upgrade without reinstalling Windows from scratch), but since its at least a week before I'll get to work with the system again, I thought I'd explore the possible things wrong with the PC.

Anyway, the MSI tech support forum will probably blame the power supply, because you know, its not a monster 550W Pratt & Whitney able to power small city blocks. I was wondering if anyone else had issues with using that Fortron with any Nforce2 boards.

I also currently use a Fortron 300W on a different Nforce1 board (which also uses a ATI 9600 Pro), with absolutely no problems. I find it hard to believe that it couldn't power (and be quiet when doing it) a small Nforce2 board.

Bailey · Post by **Bailey** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:36 pm

You may be experiencing problems because the NF2 board runs the CPU off the 12v line. Most 300w supplies don't have enough juice to run the CPU and the components.

Does the 9600 have a molex connector? Combine that with the CPU & I'm pretty sure you're beyond the capabilities of the unit.

XPav · Post by **XPav** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:37 pm

Bailey wrote:You may be experiencing problems because the NF2 board runs the CPU off the 12v line. Most 300w supplies don't have enough juice to run the CPU and the components.

Does the 9600 have a molex connector? Combine that with the CPU & I'm pretty sure you're beyond the capabilities of the unit.

Sorry for the confusion. I have 2 machines with Fortron FSP-300PNs.

1) Nforce1, XP 2400, 9600 Pro -- works fine
2) Nforce2, XP 1600, onboard video -- crashes like a sumbitch

Harry Azol · Post by **Harry Azol** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 4:55 pm

the Asus A7N8X series uses 5v for cpu voltage regulation..

is there an additional power connector for the motherboard? or just the atx power connector?

XPav · Post by **XPav** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 5:27 pm

Just the ATX.

I really think its a Windows driver issue -- the machine runs through memtest fine, and instantly faults out any time try to run any 3d programs (like the ever amusing Truck Dismount).

Harry Azol · Post by **Harry Azol** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:33 pm

in that case your board is NOT using 12v for cpu voltage regulation.. so your psu should be powerful enough

HammerSandwich · Post by **HammerSandwich** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 10:21 pm

XPav wrote:Just the ATX.

What's that little white thing to the southwest of the CPU socket?

Pjotor · Post by **Pjotor** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 10:55 pm

The little white thing is used to connect another of the PSU wires. I use it on my NF7-S v2.0, since I have a cheapish HEC 300W PSU. No stability issues; I haven't tried without it connected -- I read somewhere it gives better stability. Try it and see if the stability improves.

Happy silencing!

Bailey · Post by **Bailey** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:58 am

What's that little white thing to the southwest of the CPU socket?

Yep, that's the 12v connector (two 12v lines actually). NF2 boards run the CPU off the 12v line, whether you use the connector or not, though I'm not sure if they can get enough juice from the ATX connector. They might run w/o the connector but they may not be stable (as you've experienced). Running the CPU off the 12v has been an "Intel thing" for awhile but given the draw of a high end Barton (around 8a on 12v) we're starting to see AMD boards with the same design.

NF1 boards run the CPU off the 5v line which is why your other board is stable.

All power suplies labled "P4 compatible" will have the 4 pin 12v connector.

Harry Azol · Post by **Harry Azol** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 7:26 am

Bailey wrote:Yep, that's the 12v connector (two 12v lines actually). NF2 boards run the CPU off the 12v line, whether you use the connector or not, though I'm not sure if they can get enough juice from the ATX connector. They might run w/o the connector but they may not be stable (as you've experienced). Running the CPU off the 12v has been an "Intel thing" for awhile but given the draw of a high end Barton (around 8a on 12v) we're starting to see AMD boards with the same design.

NF1 boards run the CPU off the 5v line which is why your other board is stable.

All power suplies labled "P4 compatible" will have the 4 pin 12v connector.

once again.. NOT ALL NF2 BOARDS USE THE 12V LINE

for example, the Asus A7N8X series

Harry Azol · Post by **Harry Azol** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 7:29 am

less then one amp drawn on 12v line from A7N8X

Bailey · Post by **Bailey** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 7:39 am

once again.. NOT ALL NF2 BOARDS USE THE 12V LINE

I didn't mean to imply that ALL nforce 2 boards do, just that MOST of them run off the 12v line.

The Asus is an exception in most things, it's also one of the few NF2 boards that uses 2 phase voltage regulation, even the lowly $50 Shuttle A35N uses 3 phase.

The MSI pictured above DOES run off the 12v line, as mentioned the connector is just below & left of the CPU socket.

XPav · Post by **XPav** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:43 am

I am so freaking blind. Sheesh. Thats embarressing.

Alright, so if I borrow a multimeter here from work when I go back to work on the PC (which is a couple hours away from me), can I measure the current flow through that connector?

Bailey · Post by **Bailey** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 12:15 pm

I am so freaking blind. Sheesh. Thats embarressing

Nah, it's new to "AMD land" & it's easy to miss.

can I measure the current flow through that connector?

I would think, the lead from the PS has two +12v & two grounds.

Harry Azol · Post by **Harry Azol** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 12:28 pm

Bailey wrote: I didn't mean to imply that ALL nforce 2 boards do, just that MOST of them run off the 12v line.

The Asus is an exception in most things, it's also one of the few NF2 boards that uses 2 phase voltage regulation, even the lowly $50 Shuttle A35N uses 3 phase.

The MSI pictured above DOES run off the 12v line, as mentioned the connector is just below & left of the CPU socket.

alright just making sure..

btw, it's a bit unfair to just compare 2phase vs. 3phase..
a well designed and implemented 2 phase can perform better then a poorly designed/implemented 3 phase circuit..

Bailey · Post by **Bailey** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 12:35 pm

alright just making sure..

btw, it's a bit unfair to just compare 2phase vs. 3phase..
a well designed and implemented 2 phase can perform better then a poorly designed/implemented 3 phase circuit..

I agree, my only point was that the Asus is a bit of an anomoly in the NF2 world, didn't intend to cast any aspersions.

Harry Azol · Post by **Harry Azol** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 1:30 pm

well then, lets get back to the topic:

xpav, make sure the atx 12v connector is plugged in..

XPav · Post by **XPav** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 1:36 pm

Harry Azol wrote:well then, lets get back to the topic:

xpav, make sure the atx 12v connector is plugged in..

I'm pretty sure it is -- but I installed the motherboard in the case and powered it up nearly 3 weeks ago, and its a few hours away. That's why I'm kinda hazy on it and forgot the 3 seconds that I spent plugging in that conncetor.

Because of the complete regularity of the crashes (launch Truck Dismount , watch game load, CRASH when it tries to display 3d, every single time), complete with hour long succesful memtest runs, I'm very sure that its a driver issue caused by the fact that I just slapped the new motherboard in without reinstalling Windows.

I just came here to ask about you guy's experience because this is where I got the Fortron recommendation for my other PC a few months ago, and had experience with it. If I still have problems after I reinstall Windows, I'll get a 350W supply and sell the 300W to a friend with the same nforce1 board as I.

Harry Azol · Post by **Harry Azol** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 3:12 pm

XPav wrote:I'm very sure that its a driver issue caused by the fact that I just slapped the new motherboard in without reinstalling Windows.

I did that when I got my nf2 board...

windows runs MUCH MUCH MUCH better from a fresh install..

I used to get all kinds of wierd crashes and problems before that ( I did a repair install when I swapped motherboards)

Blooz · Post by **Blooz** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 3:47 pm

The Epox 8RDA/8RDA+ are also nForce boards which do not use the 4-pin 12V connector.

Liquidated · Post by **Liquidated** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:33 am

I've used about 5 300 watter spi's....

I've been pushing out about 10 pc's all based on a the fortron/sparkle 300 or 350 60pn, the asus a7n8x (basic and deluxe) and barton 2500+ cpus over the last few months for friends and family. been using the zalman alcu 7000 whenever the case allows and thermalright 800 with panaflows for the people that refused to get a new case with enough headroom.

So far from people using the cpu stock to overclocking to 2.5 ghz have had zero problems at all with the setups and my friends love me for their newly uber quiet pc's.

Zero problems. I really am tempted to throw one of these setups together formyself.

Cheers!
-Liq

JonasR · Post by **JonasR** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 1:48 pm

Hi

I do not think it is the power supply. I put together a system for my father with the Epox 8RGA motherboard using the onboard graphics. It crashed right away when i tried any 3D game and could crash when only runing windows. The solution was to change from the "cheap" ram modules to more high quality ones. The system is nice and stable now.
(I cant remeber the name of the ram modules now) So try to borrow some nice RAM sticks from a friend
/Jonas

Gnerma · Post by **Gnerma** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 1:58 pm

JonasR wrote:The solution was to change from the "cheap" ram modules to more high quality ones.
/Jonas

If the ram throws no errors in memtest86 its not the problem, no matter how much he paid for it. I'd bet my main system that this is because of a rotten OS as Xpav also believes

silvervarg · Post by **silvervarg** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 4:02 am

A quick test to check if he got any PSU problems would be to load the system real hard (while not using 3D graphics). If the PSU is the problem it should crash instantly, so the thest would be very quick.
I suggest starting prime95+any harddisc benchmark+view a movie from CD or DVD.
If this quick test is passed he could eliminate all possible hardware problems (more or less). The only remaining problem could be software.

The other way to go would be to just download and install the latest video driver from nvidia.

Completely viping out windows will always fix quite a few problems. Some of them reoccurs if you install windows again

JonasR · Post by **JonasR** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 11:39 am

Gnerma wrote: If the ram throws no errors in memtest86 its not the problem, no matter how much he paid for it. I'd bet my main system that this is because of a rotten OS as Xpav also believes

I could rum the memtest86 fine on my fathers computer but when I started a 3D game the computer crasched. It could be that memtest tests the memory comunication to the CPU, but it dose not test the memory comunication between the part of the memory that's used for the onboard graphics and the GPU .
/Jonas

XPav · Post by **XPav** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 9:41 am

It turned out that it was some wierdo issue when using the onboard video. RAM or timing or Single or Double channel or something strange that I've never encountered before.

Putting in a Radeon 9600XT fixed the problem and the system is now super solid, and faster.

The power supply is working just fine.

I shall now go over to the MSI forum and tell everyone what total dicks they are.

Fortron FSP300W-PN & Nforce 2 board?

Fortron FSP300W-PN & Nforce 2 board?

well my 2 cents...