are tagan PSUs good?

PSUs: The source of DC power for all components in the PC & often a big noise source.

Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee, Devonavar

JavaLava
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:43 am
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia

Post by JavaLava » Sat Feb 07, 2004 7:09 am

cosmo3 wrote:I wonder if it is a vibration problem for some of you. The Tagan is just a bit longerr than some power suplies. I have the Vantec silencer gasket on mine and rubber washers on the mounting screws.
Definitely not a vibration problem, since I installed the Tagan on a similar Antec gasket with rubber washers too.

Kostik
*Lifetime Patron*
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2003 7:51 am
Location: Paris, France

Post by Kostik » Sat Feb 07, 2004 2:27 pm

So. Some of my forumers were invited by Tagan to come and visit them, bringing their faulty PSU for a replacement. They then searched for the cause of the noise, and discovered that a component was not soldered correctly. They say they didn't notice it before because the PSUs worked perfectly before shipping.

They told the factory about that, and the problem should be fixed in the next batch. I don't know *when* the problem will be fixed on every Tagan PSU sold yet.

Cyberpukish
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 5:35 am

Post by Cyberpukish » Sun Feb 08, 2004 8:16 am

THANK YOU! SMOOOOOOOOOOCH!

FunkedUp
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 8:51 am
Location: Finland

Post by FunkedUp » Sun Feb 08, 2004 9:00 am

Has anybody tried TG-330-U01? Do they have fan clicking issues like 380-U01's? I'm thinking to buy one as those are quite reasonable priced.

halcyon
Patron of SPCR
Posts: 1115
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 3:52 am
Location: EU

Post by halcyon » Sun Feb 08, 2004 9:37 am

Kostik,

some stupid follow up questions:

- Did you test the "fixed" PSUs after soldering: was the noise gone?

- Can you elaborate as to where on the PCB the component was and perhaps what kind of a component?

Thanks!

Kostik
*Lifetime Patron*
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2003 7:51 am
Location: Paris, France

Post by Kostik » Sun Feb 08, 2004 10:18 am

Hello,

Yes, both the 330w and 480w versions are also affected.

I didn't get a fixed version, but according to those who got one it's actually fixed. From what I have heared, Tagan customer support is very good.

I tried to find the source of the noise. I ran the PSU open, all fans unplugged, but couldn't tell exactly where it was coming from. I will ask them and report here.

FunkedUp
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 8:51 am
Location: Finland

Post by FunkedUp » Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:52 am

Thanks for the info Kostik,
I wonder when those fixed models will be in Finland; hopefully soon. I'm not sure now, should I go for Tagan or pick up Nexus NX-3000 or NX-3500.

dukla2000
*Lifetime Patron*
Posts: 1465
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 12:27 pm
Location: Reading.England.EU

Post by dukla2000 » Sun Feb 08, 2004 3:51 pm

BTW - a bit late in the thread but the TG380-U01 got a good review at ComputerBase (in German). Most interesting to me are 80% AC/DC efficiency, modest price, took heavy overloads, APFC and they basically couldn't measure the noise (at idle) with their kit as it was too close to ambient.

Interesting footnote, they say Tagan have improved the fan controller since their review. (Hopefully not in the same way SeaSonic 'improved' theirs!)

Gekkani
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Contact:

Post by Gekkani » Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:47 am

I have the same problem :(

I emailed Tagan at tech@tagan.com 2 weeks ago but NO reply :cry:

MikeC
Site Admin
Posts: 12283
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Contact:

Post by MikeC » Tue Feb 10, 2004 9:45 am

dukla2000 wrote:BTW - a bit late in the thread but the TG380-U01 got a good review at ComputerBase (in German). Most interesting to me are 80% AC/DC efficiency, modest price, took heavy overloads, APFC and they basically couldn't measure the noise (at idle) with their kit as it was too close to ambient.

Interesting footnote, they say Tagan have improved the fan controller since their review. (Hopefully not in the same way SeaSonic 'improved' theirs!)
Thier efficiency findings are very impressive!! Now I've got to get my hands on a couple of these and toss them into my torture chamber. :twisted:

Inexplicable
Posts: 226
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:59 am
Location: Finland

Post by Inexplicable » Tue Feb 10, 2004 11:10 am

I can't help noticing the striking similarity between the Tagan and the Be quiet!. The innards look almost identical. Is Be quiet! perhaps a repackaged Tagan?

Inexplicable
Posts: 226
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:59 am
Location: Finland

Post by Inexplicable » Tue Feb 10, 2004 11:38 am

halcyon wrote:The Tagan unit is manufactured by Topower, which also manufactures Be Quiet v.1.3 PSUs.

Does anybody know if the noise present on Tagan PSU can also be heard on the Be Quiet brand PSUs?

If you have experiences, please report the model / revision of your Be Quiet PSU.
Ah, looks like I missed this one. As it happens, I just returned a Be Quiet! 400W 1.3 Series BlackLine single fan model to the shop because of the strange chittering noise and coil whine it made while running. Looks like it suffers from the same problems as Tagan. I'll say that, aside from this issue, it is indeed an amazing PSU. If they manage to cure the electrical noise, it is definately worth the money.

Kostik
*Lifetime Patron*
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2003 7:51 am
Location: Paris, France

Post by Kostik » Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:59 pm

MikeC wrote:Thier efficiency findings are very impressive!! Now I've got to get my hands on a couple of these and toss them into my torture chamber. :twisted:
I don't have a mean to measure efficiency, but I can measure total power draw. Here are some number with the same setup, just changing the PSU and running the same demo of 3DMark2001 :
Tagan TG380-E00 : 147w
Seasonic SS-300FS : 142w
Seasonic Super Silencer 460w : 136w

I also compared Tagan TG380-E00 with TG380-U01 (in a different review), and efficiency was exactly the same for both (got the same readings).

So I highly doubt this PSU has 80% efficiency. It runs hot by the way. And they claim 70% efficiency, 73% at max power.

MikeC
Site Admin
Posts: 12283
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Contact:

Post by MikeC » Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:32 pm

Thanks for the info Kostik. ;)

We can take a very good guess at what the real efficiency is by extrapolating from the info you provided.

At that kind of power draw level, I know that the SS300FS will reach 74~75% efficiency; the Super Silencer about 2-3% higher.

So let's just plug in these numbers --

77% for the Super Silencer >> 77% of 136 = 104.72W
74% for the SS300FS >> 74% of 142 = 105W

Close enough! So your system is drawing ~105W in DC voltage. To calculate the efficiency of the Tagan, 105 divided by 147 = 71.4%

That's not bad, but nowhere near the 80% and higher measured by that German review site. I am not surprised you say it runs hot.

dukla2000
*Lifetime Patron*
Posts: 1465
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 12:27 pm
Location: Reading.England.EU

Post by dukla2000 » Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:34 pm

Aargh Kostik - I suspect you are correct. Like another site probably a resistor has fallen out of their load tester or similar!
Kostik wrote: Tagan TG380-E00 : 147w
Seasonic SS-300FS : 142w
Seasonic Super Silencer 460w : 136w
...
So I highly doubt this PSU has 80% efficiency. It runs hot by the way. And they claim 70% efficiency, 73% at max power.
Your numbers are consistent with a (reverse engineered) 108W load. The Seasonic is 79% efficient (plausible on 220V and from MikeC's tests) and the Tagan 73% - consistent with the manufacturer spec.

Damn - I was getting all enthusiastic these could be the next big thing, but I really figure 80% efficiency is an entry hurdle that has to be cleared by the next champion.

(I just got myself a AC power meter gadget: my system w/Tornado draws 117W from mains. Plugging my old cheapo in it drew 142W. That extra 25W of heat has to be worked on yaddah yaddah .. Or looked at another way I guesstimate the Tornado generates 26W of heat, the cheapo 50W, hence my efficiency mantra!)

Gekkani
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Contact:

Post by Gekkani » Tue Feb 10, 2004 5:51 pm

Inexplicable wrote:I can't help noticing the striking similarity between the Tagan and the Be quiet!. The innards look almost identical. Is Be quiet! perhaps a repackaged Tagan?
Not exactly. BeQuiet and Tagan PSUs are based on the new TSP Ultrasilent PSUs... Thats why they all look the same.

Cyberpukish
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 5:35 am

Post by Cyberpukish » Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:08 pm

I got my tagan and my bqe.... it is sad that my geforce 2 graphics card make so much noise, like as though it is grinding something ... it wasnt like that b4 ;( Guess i have to change it but i am outta cash... Any one can recommend a silent fan for my P4 2.0a cpu? Zalman?

JavaLava
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:43 am
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia

Post by JavaLava » Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:59 pm

Cyberpukish,

I would recommend the Zalman 7000AlCu if you don't want to mess around with fans. I personally prefer having the freedom to experiment and upgrade or replace broken fans, in which case the Thermalrights are the best choices.

I've been getting mine from NEOKN in Singapore and I should mention that Webster Neo of NEOKN has been exceptionally helpful and informative. Check out this link:
http://www.neokncyberspace.bizland.com/store/index.html
You would need to find a source for a good fan to go with the Thermalrights tho...

Cyberpukish
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 5:35 am

Post by Cyberpukish » Fri Feb 13, 2004 7:21 pm

ok i will check out the zalman hmm hope its not too expensive. Thanks again mate! BTW the tagan is quite quiet but yes it runs alittle hot after an hr of usage. I will keep track of its performance. It seems that my pc needs an overhaul in the video card section too.. damn...

JavaLava
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:43 am
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia

Post by JavaLava » Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:43 pm

You're very welcome, Cyberpukish :D

BTW, the Tagan 480 that I installed has begun to exhibit some heat problems. The PC would not start at all periodically and temperatures would shoot up. I suspect that the fan control circuitry is at fault. At times the idle CPU temp of the Pentium 2.4C would reach 70°C! At other times the load temp would hover around 45. These are readings taken from an Asus P4C800-E Deluxe at Singapore's ambient indoor temp of around 28°C.

I've arranged to return it to the distributor. Let's see how well they honor the 3 year warranty.

edz
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2003 12:56 pm
Location: London, UK

Post by edz » Sat Feb 14, 2004 4:49 pm

For those in the UK: scan have the Tagan TG480-U01 for £48.50 (£56.99 inc vat) down from £56.00 (£65.80) until Monday.

alglove
Posts: 363
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:21 am
Location: Houston, TX, USA

Post by alglove » Sun Feb 15, 2004 9:56 pm

For whatever it's worth, I just got a 480W Tagan, plugged it in, and immediately heard an extremely loud "KLACK! KLACK! KLACK! KLACK! KLACK!" coming from the vicinity of the rear PSU fan. I am assuming that this is related to the bad solder problem, but this wasn't even subtle. It was so loud, it scared my dog.

Needless to say, I am not impressed with the quality control at Tagan. This one is headed back to the store immediately. :x

First a bad Seasonic Tornado, and now this. My old Enermax is looking better by the minute.

Cyberpukish
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 5:35 am

Post by Cyberpukish » Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:06 am

wow damn i have no problem so far ... though the power did trip once but i dun think its the tagan.... damn ...maybe i should have sticked with antec..... my room is gonna be very hot!

JavaLava
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:43 am
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia

Post by JavaLava » Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:12 am

Update:
The Tagan 480 is defective. Something to do with the fan control circuitry, me thinks. The defective unit was replaced with another that has the same noise issue.

Me wonders if Tagans with the weird noise are prone to break down. My advice to all Tagan owners is to keep track of CPU and system temps with MBM. If you notice an unsual temp spike even at idle, send the unit back before your system overheats!

alglove
Posts: 363
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:21 am
Location: Houston, TX, USA

Post by alglove » Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:24 pm

Cyberpukish,

If it makes you feel any better, the fan on my old Geforce2 also started making horrendous noises. I got sick of it, ripped it off, and put a generic Blue Orb knockoff on it. Unfortunately, the new cooler was attached only with sticky tape, and there were no mounting holes (wish I noticed that before I bought it!), so it eventually fell off. I got disgusted with the whole thing and ran the GPU naked. Much to my surprise, it was still stable. Evetnually, I put a generic chipset heatsink on it, no fan.

I ran it that way for several months. I eventually upgraded to a newer graphics card. The Geforce2 still runs, though.

Gekkani
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Contact:

Post by Gekkani » Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:04 am

JavaLava wrote: BTW, the Tagan 480 that I installed has begun to exhibit some heat problems. The PC would not start at all periodically and temperatures would shoot up. I suspect that the fan control circuitry is at fault. At times the idle CPU temp of the Pentium 2.4C would reach 70°C! At other times the load temp would hover around 45. These are readings taken from an Asus P4C800-E Deluxe at Singapore's ambient indoor temp of around 28°C.

I've arranged to return it to the distributor. Let's see how well they honor the 3 year warranty.
Update:
The Tagan 480 is defective. Something to do with the fan control circuitry, me thinks. The defective unit was replaced with another that has the same noise issue.

Me wonders if Tagans with the weird noise are prone to break down. My advice to all Tagan owners is to keep track of CPU and system temps with MBM. If you notice an unsual temp spike even at idle, send the unit back before your system overheats!
Mmm... I don't understand whats your problem. CPU idle temperature raises up due to a bad PSU ?? :? 70ºC?? :?

U need some case fans to extract the hot air from the case. Silent PSUs shouldnt extract by itself all the hot air from a case. A case fan its a must IMHO.

JavaLava
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:43 am
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia

Post by JavaLava » Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:32 am

Gekkani wrote:Mmm... I don't understand whats your problem. CPU idle temperature raises up due to a bad PSU ?? 70ºC??
Sorry for not elaborating on what's wrong with the PSU. The reason I said the fan circuitry was at fault is because the PSU fan would stop spinning or slow down to the point that it becomes ineffective in cooling down the PSU.
U need some case fans to extract the hot air from the case. Silent PSUs shouldnt extract by itself all the hot air from a case. A case fan its a must IMHO.
My mistake again for not specifying that I do have a Panaflo 80L1A@9V for exhaust. But even with a case that is very well ventilated, a PSU that has a dead fan would definitely raise temperatures as air sucked in through the PSU would heat up the system.

Cyberpukish
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 5:35 am

Post by Cyberpukish » Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:56 am

oh i will keep an eye or ear on it then! hmm i think i have to look for new heatsinks next mth.... btw way lava does the zalman comes with a fan? or do i attach the intel fan on it? sorry a very n00b qn :P

JavaLava
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:43 am
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia

Post by JavaLava » Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:15 am

Cyberpukish,

If you're referring to the Zalman 7000 series, it is an integrated heatsink and fan design. The package includes the Zalman Fanmate too.

Cyberpukish
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 5:35 am

Post by Cyberpukish » Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:54 am

alglove:
btw where did u get the heatsink for the gf2 and what brand is it ?for the gf2

Post Reply