Anyone here using diskless workstation?

[IsaacKuo]

I've been doing research into diskless workstation setup, and I've got a severe case of information overload. Just wondering if anyone's doing it here, for silence. If so, any pointers to a relatively easy guide on how to do it?

I've already made the transition to using Linux, which seems to be the way to go for inexpensive diskless workstations. However, most of the documentation out there assumes the "fast" computer is the server, while the "slow" computer is the diskless workstation. I'm looking to do the opposite--the "slow" computer is just a file server; the "fast" computer is the client workstation.

The two references I've found so far which look most promising are:

http://www.vlug.org/vlug/meetings/X-ter ... tails.html

and

http://linuxgazette.com/issue68/swieskowski.html

These actually refer to a way to make the diskless workstation a thin client X Terminal, but I think I might be able to figure out how to skip/modify some steps to run it as a normal thick client system.

[Edwood]

There's always Cenatek Rocketdrive which uses RAM for storage.
Still needs work, though.

-Ed

[IsaacKuo]

As I understand it, you can't boot off of the Rocketdrive. And, of course, it's stupendously expensive.

[Dhurdahl]

Well if your going for linux you can start out with http://www.freevix.org/ and rip out the Freevo part of it.
Should give out a total size around 7-8M for a boot image and filesystem.
Booted either from USB/CF or PXE network

[Ducky]

These actually refer to a way to make the diskless workstation a thin client X Terminal, but I think I might be able to figure out how to skip/modify some steps to run it as a normal thick client system.

For "thick" client systems, just set up NFS and run with your client like normal -- remember, in UNIX-like systems, NFS directories acts exactly like a local directory, so no further configuration is necessary.

Just remember -- unless you're doing gigabit ethernet, the NFS will run somewhat slower than an actual hard disk. (So video editing and such might be a wee bit slow -- but it'll finish sooner or later.)

[CharlieChan]

IMO the simpliest way to explore diskless workstations in Linux is to install k12ltsp. It is basically Redhat Fedora Core 1 with LTSP 4.0 wrapped up into one distro. I have tried it but my goals are to turn it into a diskless folding farm. Whether such setup is suitable for you will depend on the apps you run. Hard disk intensive apps will be limited by network bandwidth.

[geordie]

I've been getting to grips with Gentoo recently. Haven't got a diskless client setup (yet), but the "howto" documentation for this seems to make sense to me, so I expect others will have no problem
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/diskless-howto.xml

[shathal]

And thus we return to thin clients.

Hmm - has it been 20/30 years already? .

I personally rather dislike that concept - but it CAN help with silence, I don't deny that .

[IsaacKuo]

So...the short answer so far is, no, no one here is using a diskless workstation?

I'll see what I can figure out. No, I am not talking about thin clients. At some point, I'll want to do that with a couple old Pentium systems I have lying around, but what I want to do for now is remove the hard drive from my P4Cel 2.5Ghz.

Thanks for the links and suggestions, although they are mostly thin client oriented and really don't help with information overload. I was hoping for someone who actually implemented a diskless workstation setup.

I'm aware that I'm going to take a performance hit, although it won't be so severe since I'm currently using a pretty slow notebook drive, and my media files are accessed over the network already anyway.

[IsaacKuo]

For "thick" client systems, just set up NFS and run with your client like normal -- remember, in UNIX-like systems, NFS directories acts exactly like a local directory, so no further configuration is necessary.

That still leaves the hard parts--initial install and seting up hardware configuration and stuff, and figuring out how to get the client workstation to boot up from the network drive.

I think I can figure out some of that from the first link I posted. I like the suggested floppy boot method, because it eliminates all of the weird extra components like BOOTP and TFTP and stuff, leaving just NFS to worry about. Naturally, the floppy boot itself won't be silent (unless I rig up a serious floppy drive enclosure), but after the network boot starts up, the floppy should be silent from then on.

[CharlieChan]

So...the short answer so far is, no, no one here is using a diskless workstation?

Well.... I installed K12LTSP on a P3 1.G, connect a diskless workstation to the P3 using crossover cable and booted using PXE. The workstation loaded X and give logo screen. I could logon and run programs on the server but this is not what you wanted! To run programs on the workstation I setup NIS on the server and SSH on the workstation. I could then ssh back to the workstation and run a program there but it is alot of work and I still don't understand the complete process.

[luggage]

So...the short answer so far is, no, no one here is using a diskless workstation?

Well Katana's machine I guess is using the Solid State Drive for boot and OS and the other SCSI drive for file storage.
So what you seem to want is to put his secondary drive in a homemade NAS or fileserver?

I like the suggested floppy boot method, because it eliminates all of the weird extra components like BOOTP and TFTP and stuff, leaving just NFS to worry about. Naturally, the floppy boot itself won't be silent (unless I rig up a serious floppy drive enclosure), but after the network boot starts up, the floppy should be silent from then on.

How about a Compact Flash Card reader with a fast Compact Flash Card or a fast USB memory stick on USB2 instead of a floppy?
CF cards come in over 1GB sizes now and the faster versions (x80) are said to rival microdrives That would even give you some local cache/scratch disc. (and still be a good deal cheaper than a Solid State IDE/SCSI drive I guess.)

[edit] hmm looking at specs the read speeds seems to be rather much slower tho... anyone know about this? If you could read from a x80 CFcard at the 12MB/s you can write to it it would not be much slower than the end part of a Seagate U6 [WB99 Disk/Read Transfer Rate - End]

[IsaacKuo]

So...the short answer so far is, no, no one here is using a diskless workstation?

Well.... I installed K12LTSP on a P3 1.G, connect a diskless workstation to the P3 using crossover cable and booted using PXE. The workstation loaded X and give logo screen. I could logon and run programs on the server but this is not what you wanted! To run programs on the workstation I setup NIS on the server and SSH on the workstation. I could then ssh back to the workstation and run a program there but it is alot of work and I still don't understand the complete process.

Well, if I were to expand on the "short" answer, I'd note that you've gotten a diskless workstation working, but you don't actually "use" it as a workstation. Your ultimate goal is to use it in a server farm, of course, which is as far removed from "workstation" as it gets.

Anyway, my first attempt at network boot has failed (Knoppix's terminal server). I haven't really tried very hard to get that to work, though, and am in the time consuming process of setting up some other computer software for another project right now.

[IsaacKuo]

How about a Compact Flash Card reader with a fast Compact Flash Card or a fast USB memory stick on USB2 instead of a floppy?

Either is expensive, and USB boot is somewhat flakey also. In contrast, I have floppy drives just lying around. The cost is practically nothing, and the only disadvantage is some noise during initial bootup.

[Dhurdahl]

So...the short answer so far is, no, no one here is using a diskless workstation?

Actualy... yes I do.

I got a lab with 6 fanless/diskless mini-itx machines network booting and running X against a bigger server.
(totaly quiet since there is NO moving parts in them)

VERY cheap xterminal setup

[CharlieChan]

Well, if I were to expand on the "short" answer, I'd note that you've gotten a diskless workstation working, but you don't actually "use" it as a workstation. Your ultimate goal is to use it in a server farm, of course, which is as far removed from "workstation" as it gets.

The idea of a diskless folding client is to use the processing power of the 'diskless workstation'. The server is there to provided the disk space and gateway to the rest of the 'world'. The server is a P3 1.0G but the workstation is a diskless XP 2400.

[luggage]

In contrast, I have floppy drives just lying around. The cost is practically nothing, and the only disadvantage is some noise during initial bootup.

I'd add the 1.44MB size and speed to the disadvatages

And I rather compare the costs with that of a silent small HD.

[Dhurdahl]

If you want local power I suggest you search around for "NFS root" and PXE.
Those two are needed to get linux up and running without a local disc.

Running my PVR that way

[IsaacKuo]

Thanks, "NFS root" led me to http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-mini/NFS-Root.html. It's still very bewildering to me but it might be helpful.

How did you set up your PVR?

Oh, about those X Terminals--I have so far assumed that X Terminals essentially can't play video files. Is that right? My primary goal is to operate HTPCs used mainly for video/music/photo viewing and web browsing. I suppose an X Terminal can handle web browsing, but video playback?

CharlieChan--by "workstation", I mean where a person can do work.

Luggage--The local floppy drive is used exclusively for starting up network boot. Since a floppy is big enough and fast enough (considering the amount of time spent during the rest of bootup), they're not really disadvantages.

There's no reason for a silent small HD to even enter into this discussion. I suppose theoretically a small HD could be useful if it were used to initiate network boot and then parked to silence it. This drive wouldn't need to be silent, though.

[CharlieChan]

CharlieChan--by "workstation", I mean where a person can do work.

OK, I give up! If you wanted know more about running local applications on a diskless workstation try this link.

[IsaacKuo]

I'm sorry, if I have offended by miscommunication. I simply mean that I'm talking about a computer that you--a human being--sit in front of, USING it as a workstation. You know, editing images or web browsing or viewing video files or whatever.

Maybe I have a complete misunderstanding of what Folding@home is, but it's not an interactive application that you sit in front of and work with, right? It's something which you leave running in the background, and if it's the only thing running on a computer this computer may even be headless (no keyboard/mouse/video at all).

Is that right?

[IsaacKuo]

Anyway, looking at setting up NFS, it looks like a complete nightmare to set up with any semblance of security. To run just an X Terminal, it looks doable because the X Terminal doesn't need root access to any remote files. For a "thick" client setup, this won't be practical.

Also, the UIDs will be completely out of sync, unless I figure out NIS.

All in all, I'm looking more at various methods which share root file systems. This is unnerving because there's no separation between the various systems, but it looks like the only practical way to go.