Samsung 250GB Rhythmic Vibrations

Silencing hard drives, optical drives and other storage devices

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discdude
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Samsung 250GB Rhythmic Vibrations

Post by discdude » Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:22 am

Just bought a 250 GB Samsung Spinpoint SP2504C.

Unfortunately, it has a very strong rhythmic vibration that is audible. It will vibrate for a second, then OK for a second, then vibrate again, and so on. You can feel the pulses when you put your hand on the drive.

While I have had drives that vibrated before, they all were constant. Anyone else's Samsung have this problem? I'm leaning strongly towards returning the drive since that vibration can't be good for long term reliability either.

Lilla
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Post by Lilla » Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:12 pm

I installed a new SP2504C last month, it replaced a smaller/older drive.

My new drive is very quiet and has only very minimal vibration / nothing worth mentioning actually. It doesn't have the uneven characteristic you describe.

What motherboard? Does it support SATA-II, if not you might want to try setting the 1.5GB/s jumper, if you haven't already, to see if this helps.

What Power Supply? Is the power supply adequate? Sometimes you need to consider the load on each rail (12V, 5V, 3V) not just total power draw. Can you try putting the new drive on it's own power supply lead?

Any other hard drives drives?
What video card?

Good luck,
Lilla

discdude
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Post by discdude » Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:07 am

My motherboard (Asrock K7S8XE+) doesn't support SATA-II although it has no problem detecting the drive.

My power supply is a Seasonic Super Silencer 350 watt. I have checked the 5V and 12V power with a multimeter and they aren't sagging.

I currently have two Seagate Baracuda 60GB drives in there with the Samsung although I plan on replacing one with the Samsung (if all goes well). My video card is an Powercolor X700 AGP which supposedly uses < 40 watts. In case anyone is wondering it is not a quiet card - I plan on putting a Aerocool VM-101 on it.

I'll try the using messing with the SATA jumper on Samsung and see if it helps.

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Post by IsaacKuo » Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:31 am

Samsungs do generally vibrate a lot, but this "rythmic vibration" does sound odd. It sounds like what's called "beating", but that only makes sense if your drive is hard mounted. And no one here on SPCR would even THINK of hard mounting a Samsung ;) ...

... no, seriously. Have you tried out what the vibration is like with the Samsung removed from its mounting? What's it like when the Samsung is simply being held in the air in your hands?
Isaac Kuo

discdude
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Post by discdude » Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:50 am

IsaacKuo - the samsung vibrates even if it isn't mounted in the case.

I don't have any drives soft mounted although the drive cage of my Compucase LX-6A19 has some (hard) rubber grommets. Furthermore, my case is insulated (with cheap Akasa Pax.mate, but I used a lot of it - nearly 2 boxes worth). Plus I replaced the plastic feet of my case with rubber ones. I wouldn't mind replacing the hard rubber grommets in my drive cage, but suspending a hard drive with a rubber band makes me nervous. :oops:

Lilla - setting the jumper didn't help.

But ...

As I said earlier, I currently have 3 drives running in my system. If I disconnect one of my Seagates, the vibration of the Samsung becomes even and much less annoying. More than my Seagate Baracudas (IV and V) but not too bad.

It looks like my power supply may be to blame. I thought I was OK as the AC power consumption is < 160 watts. Could I be using too many amps on one of the rails? Hmm...

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Post by Tephras » Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:16 pm

I really don't think your HD vibrates because of the PSU and even if it would be possibile that a PSU affects how much a HD vibrates your 350W Super Silencer provides plenty of power for your system.

discdude wrote:Anyone else's Samsung have this problem?
Yes, you are not the only one with this problem.

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Post by IsaacKuo » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:43 pm

discdude wrote:IsaacKuo - the samsung vibrates even if it isn't mounted in the case.
That's normal, if it's a "steady" vibration. Samsungs tend to heavily vibrate. It's like a Sony Playstation Dual Shock controller on "rumble". So, am I right that it vibrates steadily if you hold it in your hands?
...the drive cage...I currently have 3 drives running in my system. If I disconnect one of my Seagates, the vibration of the Samsung becomes even and much less annoying. More than my Seagate Baracudas (IV and V) but not too bad.
It really sounds like you have a "beating" problem. This is basically an interaction between the vibrations of multiple hard drives. There really isn't a good solution to this problem other than individually soft mounting your hard drives. There are many, many ways to acheive this, not just with a bulky elastic band based suspension.

One easy and compact method worth trying is to simply stack the drives on top of each other, spaced with strips of sorbothane. This leaves pretty slim air gaps between the drives, so you'd need to use a fan to actively shove air between the drives. This can at least give you an idea of how much noise reduction soft mounting can provide for you without too much effort.
It looks like my power supply may be to blame.
I doubt it.
Isaac Kuo

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Post by Lilla » Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:38 pm

On my SP2504C, I ran Samsung HUtil v2.00 rev. 1.25 (a free utility for this drive) and set the Accoustic Management level to Quiet; choices are Fast/Middle/Quiet. By default this setting is Disabled. I suspect the Quiet setting would also minimize any the vibration.

You can find Samsung HUtil here...
http://www.samsung.com/Products/HardDis ... /hutil.htm

In HUTIL I also enabled SMART, and ran the self-diagnostic; it took about about 1.5 hours - no problems were found.

If you haven't already, you could set AAM to Quiet and see if this helps.
Also, you could set AAM to Quietest option on any other hard drives, if this is supported on your Seagates.

Is the OS on the Samsung SP2504C? If so, I would disconnect (temporarily) the other 2 Seagate hard drives, and install the Samsung outside the case, i.e. lying on the desk (on a piece of non-static material) beside the case so you can put your hand on it to judge the vibration, noise, heat from the drive (independent of the case, drive mounting method, the interaction of multiple hard drives which could be causing the so called "beating" affect). Then you can proceed based upon what you have learned.

Lilla

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Post by discdude » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:16 pm

Looks like I am suffering from the "beating" phenonmenon. The Samsung is fine as long as I disconnect my Barracuda IV.

I don't know if I should try exchanging the drive and hope the new one vibrates in tune with my system. It is a shame that Seagate lost their silent mojo.

Also, I'm certainly willing to try the blue EAR grommets since they seem to be a fairly easy "upgrade." Does anyone know the model # and a good place to purchase them?

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Post by tjpark1111 » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:25 pm

it's obviously not the samsung drive's fault if it doesn't 'beat' when one of the seagates are removed. You should just get some softer grommets and it'll work. If you don't like suspending drives w/rubber bands, there are many other ways that are considered suspended, such as putting foam under drives, which is technically suspended. As long you have some good elastic material, you shouldn't be uncomfortable suspending the drive that way.

GHz
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Post by GHz » Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:45 pm

I always encounter this problem when hard-mounting more than one hard drive. It's still noticeable even with one hard drive, but much less so. Your best bet is soft-mounting.
-G

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Post by Lilla » Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:00 pm

I agree with TJpark111, it sounds like you have eliminated the Samsung drive as being the source of the problem. The solution lies in changing the way the hard drives are installed/mounted.

The sticky thread below contains a lot of information about how this can be done....

HDD vibration & noise reducing methods - ranked
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=8240


For more ideas, perform this search...

Search for keywords: resonate OR resonating OR resonance
choose: Search for any terms or use query as entered
Forum: choose Silent Storage
Display results as posts (not topics)
click the Search button


This week I found a simple install method that meet my needs.

This week I installed that older IBM 40GB PATA drive (the one I removed when I installed the new SP2504C) into an older computer. I first tried hard mounting and it was too loud and vibrated too much. So I removed it and mounted it in a detached drive cage (salvaged from an old computer case). The cage provides space for air under the drive.

I lined the bottom of the computer case and the removable side panel with outdoor carpet, it's only about 1/4 inch thick, it looks a bit like felt. I used double faced tape to hold the carpet to the case.

I placed the drive cage on some pink anti-static foam on the bottom of the computer case. I threaded a couple of lengths of elastic tape that is about 1/4" wide (from a sewing fabric store) though some holes in the computer case in such a way as to secure the hard drive to the case. The drive will now stay put when the computer case is moved or turned on it's side as I might do when I work inside the case; and yet I can still easily remove the hard drive.


Once you start reading and thinking about it, you'll find there are just so many ways, and you will find (or devise) one that fits your needs.

Good luck,
Lilla

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Post by discdude » Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:22 am

I've had two drives in my system(s) for nearly a decade, this is the first time I have ever encountered "beating."

Although to be perfectly fair, I currently have three drives in my system (60 GB Barracuda IV, 60 GB Barracuda V and the Samsung). I always intended to retire one. My plan is to have the Samsung paired with a 120GB Seagate Barracude 7200.7 (PATA) that I will transplant from one of my external HD enclosures. I haven't had time to test to see if they like each other. I'll still try to see if I can't isolate the drives more.

Lately, I have had bad luck with computer components. I went through three Sapphire 9600 Ultimates (one was DOA, two I never could get working), and I'm on my third Powercolor X700 AGP (one went belly up, one had instant artifacting). My ADS Tech external enclosure was missing a screw plus had a loose screw (although I'm impressed with their service).

I'm just having trouble upgrading my computer. :cry:

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Post by bigdude » Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:00 am

I recently installed my old P4-1.5Ghz system in an Antec SLK 3000B and added a couple of SP2504C's in Raid 1.

I initially tried hard mounting the new drives in the HD cage along with a 7200.7 Seagate 200 gig and an old 40 gig Maxtor. After turning on the system, I became aware of the pulsing sound that has been described here as "beating".

I wasn't ready yet to try suspending all the hard drives, so I decided to turn the drive cage on its side and lay it on some soft foam - about 2 inches thick. The rhythmic "beating" sound disappeared completely.

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Post by klankymen » Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:04 pm

my server makes this same noise, and only since i put in the samsung approximately, so i'm pretty sure it's also the samsung for me.

I have the 250GB IDE model.
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin

discdude
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Post by discdude » Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:21 pm

The Samsung is definitely the source of the vibration. However, the odd rhythmic pattern of the vibration seems to be due to its interaction with other components.

I bought the drive at Microcenter. They have a pretty liberal return policy. I'm sure they will let me exchange the drive if I tell them it is making strange noises. I will try another drive and see if the problem is restricted to a particular sample or affects all drives.

Charles
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Post by Charles » Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:45 am

My P80 120GB SP1213C SATAI vibrates the same way, as you do.

What is the type of the motor of the drive? It is written on the other side (bottom) of the drive.

Mine is JVC. Nidec is better, but unfortunatelly, I heard about some vibrationing models with Nidec motors, also.

My friend have just bought a 250GB similar Samsung HDD, and he's drive is silent... It is with Nidec motor...

BR!
Gigabyte P35-DS4, C2D E8200, AC Freezer7 Pro, 2x Corsair 6400C4, Hitachi P7K500 320GB, Samsung 20X, Gigabyte 8800GT Rev. B, Antec Solo, Tagan Easycon 480W, Hyundai Q17S, Logitech Mx1000, Logitech MediaKeyboard Elite. Fans: Nexus RealSilent 12cm & 9cm + Zalman FM2

discdude
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Post by discdude » Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:41 pm

It uses a Nidec motor. I can't tell you exactly what model Nidec motor it is since I have returned the drive - the vibration drove me nuts.

I would of given Samsung a second chance but, unfortunately, Microcenter was sold out of 250GB SATA Samsungs (they only had PATA models). Right now I have a 60GB Seagate Barracuda V and 120GB Barracuda 7200.7 (both PATA) in my computer and there is no problem with wierd noises.

Right now I am kinda down on Samsung since I haven't been real impressed with their products. I had a Samsung 955DF 19" CRT which became blurry after 3 years. I've also tried numerous Samsung burners and most had compatability problems - plus they weren't particulary quiet. I'm more impressed with LG noisewise.

I'm still going to experiment with EAR grommets and covering the drive cage with foam in strategic locations. Hopefully, that will help the next time I decide to try Samsung.

Finally, I'm hoping Seagate's purchase of Maxtor means that we will see AAM return on Seagate drives. That would be real nice.

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Post by Lawrence Lee » Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:24 pm

I have the same problem with my new SP2504C (Nidec). My case is the P160 which uses the same HD trays as Sonata. The SP2504C vibrates a lot more than my two Maxtor DM10's and causes the whole setup to resonate. Setting AAM to quiet had no effect. :(

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Post by Charles » Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:17 pm

Amourek wrote:I have the same problem with my new SP2504C (Nidec). My case is the P160 which uses the same HD trays as Sonata. The SP2504C vibrates a lot more than my two Maxtor DM10's and causes the whole setup to resonate. Setting AAM to quiet had no effect. :(
You should try elastic suspension... Unfortunatelly, P160's "grommets" are not the same as in P180 and of course whole different from the ones in P150...

Make one yourself or buy for eg. SilentVibes...

BR!
Gigabyte P35-DS4, C2D E8200, AC Freezer7 Pro, 2x Corsair 6400C4, Hitachi P7K500 320GB, Samsung 20X, Gigabyte 8800GT Rev. B, Antec Solo, Tagan Easycon 480W, Hyundai Q17S, Logitech Mx1000, Logitech MediaKeyboard Elite. Fans: Nexus RealSilent 12cm & 9cm + Zalman FM2

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Post by Charles » Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:23 pm

discdude wrote:It uses a Nidec motor. I can't tell you exactly what model Nidec motor it is since I have returned the drive - the vibration drove me nuts.

I would of given Samsung a second chance but, unfortunately, Microcenter was sold out of 250GB SATA Samsungs (they only had PATA models). Right now I have a 60GB Seagate Barracuda V and 120GB Barracuda 7200.7 (both PATA) in my computer and there is no problem with wierd noises.

Right now I am kinda down on Samsung since I haven't been real impressed with their products. I had a Samsung 955DF 19" CRT ....
Yes, Seagate V is quite quiet... Like 7200.7, but I heard, that the .8 .9 are not that good anymore... :?

I will go next for a 250GB Western Digital RE16, RE or SE16...

OFFtopic:
As for Samsung product, I did not have any issues with my HDD-s, except 2 pcs of bad sector, that was caused by the cable or something else in my P80 80Gb Sata1 Samsung drive. WE have an almost 4 years-old 151S tft with no problem... I did not buy Samsung optical drives yet, but some dvd-drives I saw were quite horrible, but the newer DVD-RW-s are fine I think... (but I only buy Pioneer/NEC)

BR!
Gigabyte P35-DS4, C2D E8200, AC Freezer7 Pro, 2x Corsair 6400C4, Hitachi P7K500 320GB, Samsung 20X, Gigabyte 8800GT Rev. B, Antec Solo, Tagan Easycon 480W, Hyundai Q17S, Logitech Mx1000, Logitech MediaKeyboard Elite. Fans: Nexus RealSilent 12cm & 9cm + Zalman FM2

rei
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Post by rei » Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:01 am

my 250gb samsung sata2 grinds like a bitch on seek/write :/

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Post by Lawrence Lee » Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:30 am

Charles wrote: You should try elastic suspension... Unfortunatelly, P160's "grommets" are not the same as in P180 and of course whole different from the ones in P150...
I suspended the drives best I could with sewing elastic. The vibrations are quieter now, but they are still noticeable.

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Post by Avro » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:16 pm

I am also experiencing this "beating" phenomenon with my 3 week old Samsung SP2504C (250GB SATA2 Nidec motor). I thought it was just my imagination that was creating this odd low toned pulse, but I guess not.

I went from 4 HDs (Quantum Atlas IV 18GB 7200rpm SCSI, WD 18GB 7200rpm SCSI, WD2000JB 200GB PATA, WD400BB 40GB PATA) to 3 HDs (WD2000JB 200GB PATA, Samsung SP2504C 250GB SATA, Seagate 7200.7 40GB PATA) in an effort to make it quieter. While my previous setup with the 2 squealing SCSI drives is anything but quiet, it did not exhibit this odd low toned pulsing noise. The new setup is far quieter, but this pulsing noise is annoying because the vibrations travel really well through my hardwood floors so that I can hear it through my wooden bedframe. They are hardmounted my in Lian-Li PC-6085A case, with the horizontal adaptor plate (so the drives sit horizontally like typical case). I will try flipping it vertically like I had before (the normal Lian-Li PC-6x style cases have a 5-bay HD cage that has the HDs flipped 90 degrees so they sit on their sides) to see if it will improve. Unfortunately the Lian-Li HD cage does not lend itself well to cable/elastic cord HD suspension because of the location of the mounting holes. Makes me wish I bought the WD2500KS instead of the Samsung, but the Samsung was so highly rated here and it was 20% cheaper than the WD.

rei
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Post by rei » Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:37 pm

returned my damn 250gb

got a p80 spinpoint 160gb

now it's as quiet as things should be. i should get another before i stop being able to buy them.

Wilhelm-Tell
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Post by Wilhelm-Tell » Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:49 pm

My Samsung 250GB sata II doesnt have any rhythmic vibrations at all...

shadestalker
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Post by shadestalker » Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:12 am

My Samsung 250G SATA2 is hard-mounted in the cage of an SLK3700AMB using the grommets. It's got the same cyclical drone / hum as the 2 x 80G drives it replaces, albeit to a far lesser degree.

The only moving parts in the system are the Samsung, the PSU fan, and a 120mm fan at ~1400rpm, so I don't think the beating is caused by resonance with anything else, just the drive itself. The case panel "above" the motherboard seems to be where the noise is coming from, and can be mostly damped if I press my open hand firmly against it. The case panel "under" the motherboard doesn't seem to vibrate at all.

This might not be a problem except that the machine is on my desk, with the side panel facing nearly at me. I just got everything situated on the new desk, which allows me to keep the machine up off the floor and away from the cat hair, so silencing it in-place is definitely my new mission. :)

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Post by Felger Carbon » Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:57 am

shadestalker wrote:The only moving parts in the system are the Samsung, the PSU fan, and a 120mm fan at ~1400rpm, so I don't think the beating is caused by resonance with anything else, just the drive itself. The case panel "above" the motherboard seems to be where the noise is coming from, and can be mostly damped if I press my open hand firmly against it. The case panel "under" the motherboard doesn't seem to vibrate at all.
I think you're describing noise from the PSU, not the HDD at all. Doesn't the noise get damped when you are pressing a panel immediately adjacent to the PSU?

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Post by shadestalker » Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:07 am

Felger Carbon wrote:
shadestalker wrote:The only moving parts in the system are the Samsung, the PSU fan, and a 120mm fan at ~1400rpm, so I don't think the beating is caused by resonance with anything else, just the drive itself. The case panel "above" the motherboard seems to be where the noise is coming from, and can be mostly damped if I press my open hand firmly against it. The case panel "under" the motherboard doesn't seem to vibrate at all.
I think you're describing noise from the PSU, not the HDD at all. Doesn't the noise get damped when you are pressing a panel immediately adjacent to the PSU?
I've since decoupled the hard drive, it's resting on a gel wrist wrest instead of being hard mounted with the grommets. The beat is gone, replaced by a very low hum / vibration that I can damp with fingertips. I'm awaiting the arrival of a block of sorbothane to replace the wrist wrest.

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Post by Oscar » Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:00 pm

Last edited by Oscar on Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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