If your computer doesn't provide an eSata port, the Antec MX-1 comes with a Sata-to-eSata adapter: you plug it into a motherboard Sata port and it makes an eSata connector on the back panel.
Unfortunately, it appears that this Sata to eSata conversion is not guaranteed to work.
According to rumor, the timing requirements for eSata are more stringent, so a working sata port may not be able to work with the Antec MX-1.
I seem to have found this out the hard way. I moved a working internal Sata disk (my drive E:) to an MX-1 and connected it to the exact same sata port via the eSata to Sata adapter bracket and the bios was unable to recognize that a drive was there and also it prevented the system from booting. But this disk and MX-1 worked when plugged into a different computer that had a motherboard eSata port. I suspected a bad Sata-to-eSata bracket; Antec sent me a known good one that showed the same failure.
The good folks at Antec asked me to send in my MX-1 for testing at their expense. They've had it for about 5 weeks now but haven't been able to tell me anything.
I experienced the failure using a Gigabyte motherboard, both on the Sata2 ports provided by the nForce4 Ultra chipset and also the Sata ports provided by the Sil 3114 chipset.
I would only recommend the Antec MX-1 for folks who have an eSata port provided by the motherboard, although if you are feeling lucky and the chipset gods smile on you, you might be able to use the Sata-to-eSata bracket successfully....
Antec MX-1: eSata is not Sata
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
Re: Antec MX-1: eSata is not Sata
That's pretty strange, the gigabyte mobo I use (P35) has an E-sata bracket and that definitely does nothing different from the antec one. It's a direct connect from sata to e-sata. You are right that signaling is different though, if it's not native esata, the official maximum cable length is 1m, anymore could cause problems.
Pretty odd. The data paths are unchanged,the differences are that there's a jack less apt to come loose and the cable could be longer-but lower resistance with extra shielding. Possibly the extra several connects in the path are where to look.
While YOUR unit may have a weak link somewhere...mostly,eSATA works fine with a pretty wide range of mobos-enclosures-dr9ves-brackets.
If I can't get my DVD player to work with my Amp,most likeky there's a bad jack or plug somewhere. I won't assume that I can't plug a DVD player into an amp.
While YOUR unit may have a weak link somewhere...mostly,eSATA works fine with a pretty wide range of mobos-enclosures-dr9ves-brackets.
If I can't get my DVD player to work with my Amp,most likeky there's a bad jack or plug somewhere. I won't assume that I can't plug a DVD player into an amp.
I just got a reply from Antec.:
"I apologize for the delay. We have tested your MX-1 on several motherboards and have found nothing wrong with it. Both eSata brackets worked fine without any problems. I will have our RMA Department send you a replacement MX-1 enclosure anyway. We will hang on to the unit you sent back to us for future testing if this problem ever comes up again."
From my point of view, Antec has treated me well. It seems that I am just unlucky to have an incompatible motherboard, and this may be a rare occurrence. My thanks to Antec for investigating this problem.
Just so you know....
"I apologize for the delay. We have tested your MX-1 on several motherboards and have found nothing wrong with it. Both eSata brackets worked fine without any problems. I will have our RMA Department send you a replacement MX-1 enclosure anyway. We will hang on to the unit you sent back to us for future testing if this problem ever comes up again."
From my point of view, Antec has treated me well. It seems that I am just unlucky to have an incompatible motherboard, and this may be a rare occurrence. My thanks to Antec for investigating this problem.
Just so you know....
> I thought that the difference between esata and sata was a deeper and more robust connecter on esata - and that's all.
So did I until my problem. Then in looking around I found a statement in the last paragraph on page 2 of this Icy Dock review at Anandtech that suggested there are technical differences between the eSata and Sata protocols. http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdo ... i=3033&p=2
I must confess that I have not searched for the technical specs to verify the existence of protocol differences.
So did I until my problem. Then in looking around I found a statement in the last paragraph on page 2 of this Icy Dock review at Anandtech that suggested there are technical differences between the eSata and Sata protocols. http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdo ... i=3033&p=2
I must confess that I have not searched for the technical specs to verify the existence of protocol differences.
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Virgulino Ferreira
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:22 pm
http://www.sata-io.org/docs/External SATA WP 11-09.pdfbkh wrote:Then in looking around I found a statement in the last paragraph on page 2 of this Icy Dock review at Anandtech that suggested there are technical differences between the eSata and Sata protocols. http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdo ... i=3033&p=2
"With the 2-meter cable, in order to account for any additional losses over the cable, the minimum voltage transmitted is raised from 400 to 500 mV, and the minimum receiver sensitivity is further decreased to 240 mV."
"Since many of the existing disk drives and Serial ATA chipsets were originally designed with only the internal signal levels in mind, they may not be able to meet the more rigorous requirements of the external interconnect levels. For this reason, the spec allows a buffer chip to be used in either the device or host system to provide the increased signaling levels or receiver sensitivity where necessary."
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seemingly.random
- Posts: 176
- Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:51 am
- Location: Southeast, USA
Re: Antec MX-1: eSata is not Sata
I've had no problem with an MX-1 (wd500aaks) on a 430/6150 chipset mb.bkh wrote:I would only recommend the Antec MX-1 for folks who have an eSata port provided by the motherboard,
Hope you'll report on the replacement.
I too suspect that eSATA===SATA with a better plug and better cable isn't quite the full story...
Last week I bought a WD5000AAKS, to replace my 5000KS, relegating the KS to backup of the AAKS, using an MX-1 to house the KS. The BIOS of my Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe motherboard (using the nVidia SATA ports - note this too is a motherboard from *before* eSATA was specified) didn't recognise the AAKS in the MX-1 using the Antec bracket and cable, but it's perfectly happy with the AAKS connected internally, and with the KS in the MX-1, and also with an older WD2000JD in the MX-1.
The AAKS worked fine in the MX-1 when connected via USB, however.
My inclination is that there is a subtle issue with tolerances here, and the AAKS plus MX-1 plus Antec cable plus Antec bracket plus motherboard/chipset fails to meet those tolerances.
jon
Last week I bought a WD5000AAKS, to replace my 5000KS, relegating the KS to backup of the AAKS, using an MX-1 to house the KS. The BIOS of my Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe motherboard (using the nVidia SATA ports - note this too is a motherboard from *before* eSATA was specified) didn't recognise the AAKS in the MX-1 using the Antec bracket and cable, but it's perfectly happy with the AAKS connected internally, and with the KS in the MX-1, and also with an older WD2000JD in the MX-1.
The AAKS worked fine in the MX-1 when connected via USB, however.
My inclination is that there is a subtle issue with tolerances here, and the AAKS plus MX-1 plus Antec cable plus Antec bracket plus motherboard/chipset fails to meet those tolerances.
jon
Here's another hint about particular motherboard chipsets that may have trouble supporting eSata using a Sata-to-eSata bracket.
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdo ... i=3119&p=2
"As we noted in our earlier review of the ICY DOCK MB559US, proper chipset support of eSATA is strongly recommended in order to use this enclosure with the internal-external SATA connector adapter. Modern SATA chipsets should be fine, but exercise caution particularly with early VIA chipsets or the Intel ICH6."
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdo ... i=3119&p=2
"As we noted in our earlier review of the ICY DOCK MB559US, proper chipset support of eSATA is strongly recommended in order to use this enclosure with the internal-external SATA connector adapter. Modern SATA chipsets should be fine, but exercise caution particularly with early VIA chipsets or the Intel ICH6."
bkh, I have a few ?'s:
- What kind of disk are you using?
- Is it possible that it needs some sort of firmware upgrade?
- Have you tried other SATA devices?
- What drivers are you using for the SATA ports: the nVidia "accelerated" drivers or the standard MS ones? How about the drivers for the SiI chip?
- What kind of disk are you using?
- Is it possible that it needs some sort of firmware upgrade?
- Have you tried other SATA devices?
- What drivers are you using for the SATA ports: the nVidia "accelerated" drivers or the standard MS ones? How about the drivers for the SiI chip?
For the record I just added a MX-1 with a WD 1TB to my system.
XP Pro has no problems recognizing my drive on my NF3 mobo.
I was a little concerned that my chipset was a little to old.
I have the latest drivers, which are two years old, and everything works fine.
For those wanting to know details,
MOBO: MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum
NF3 Driver: 5.11 (IDE Driver 4.46)
OS: XP Pro SP2
Also, I first installed it onto SATA2 port and everything worked fine.
Then I decided to move it to SATA1 port just cause I'm weird like that.
But it wouldn't work, Windows wouldn't see it.
I put it back on SATA2 and everything was fine.
Had I put it on SATA1 first who would have known?
XP Pro has no problems recognizing my drive on my NF3 mobo.
I was a little concerned that my chipset was a little to old.
I have the latest drivers, which are two years old, and everything works fine.
For those wanting to know details,
MOBO: MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum
NF3 Driver: 5.11 (IDE Driver 4.46)
OS: XP Pro SP2
Also, I first installed it onto SATA2 port and everything worked fine.
Then I decided to move it to SATA1 port just cause I'm weird like that.
But it wouldn't work, Windows wouldn't see it.
I put it back on SATA2 and everything was fine.
Had I put it on SATA1 first who would have known?
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Loriegolaud
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:44 pm
Make sure you have that newest driver.
You'll know you have it because it will list any SATA drives you have as removable in the Safely Remove Hardware icon in you System Tray.
Here's a screen shot for inspiration:
Don't let my WindowBlinds skin fool you, I'm running XP Pro SP2.
Here's the link to the driver I'm running:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/nforce3_winxp_5.11
You'll know you have it because it will list any SATA drives you have as removable in the Safely Remove Hardware icon in you System Tray.
Here's a screen shot for inspiration:
Don't let my WindowBlinds skin fool you, I'm running XP Pro SP2.
Here's the link to the driver I'm running:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/nforce3_winxp_5.11
Hi jackylman,
>bkh, I have a few ?'s:
>
>- What kind of disk are you using?
WD 5000KS-00MNB0
>- Is it possible that it needs some sort of firmware upgrade?
I can't rule that out: I have never flashed a disk drive to newer firmware. But of course it works just fine as is on the internal nVidia and Sil sata ports on my computer, and also via the eSata motherboard back-panel port on my wife's computer.
>- Have you tried other SATA devices?
Not yet -- I'm thinking about getting a 1TB drive when the prices come down a bit.
>- What drivers are you using for the SATA ports: the nVidia "accelerated" drivers or the standard MS ones? How about the drivers for the SiI chip?
For the nVidia sata ports I'm using the standard MS drivers -- I installed Windows using the IDE compatibility mode and am not using the NVRaid mechanism.
For the Silicon Image Sil 3114 STATLink Controller the device manager says
Driver Provider: Silicon Image
Driver Date: 6/21/2006
Driver Version: 1.3.10.0
>bkh, I have a few ?'s:
>
>- What kind of disk are you using?
WD 5000KS-00MNB0
>- Is it possible that it needs some sort of firmware upgrade?
I can't rule that out: I have never flashed a disk drive to newer firmware. But of course it works just fine as is on the internal nVidia and Sil sata ports on my computer, and also via the eSata motherboard back-panel port on my wife's computer.
>- Have you tried other SATA devices?
Not yet -- I'm thinking about getting a 1TB drive when the prices come down a bit.
>- What drivers are you using for the SATA ports: the nVidia "accelerated" drivers or the standard MS ones? How about the drivers for the SiI chip?
For the nVidia sata ports I'm using the standard MS drivers -- I installed Windows using the IDE compatibility mode and am not using the NVRaid mechanism.
For the Silicon Image Sil 3114 STATLink Controller the device manager says
Driver Provider: Silicon Image
Driver Date: 6/21/2006
Driver Version: 1.3.10.0
Please look here for other info on eSata caddy's.
My MX-1
A mixture of Good and Bad.
The good is that its pretty quiet, although its louder than the HD501LJ I have put in it, but not by much. My office is rather noisy, and to identify the actual noise is almost impossible.
The bad is that the eSata doesnt work. Other people have commented on this although I dont know what the outcome was for the other people. The reason for me getting the MX-1 caddy was because its quiet, has good cooling and is fast via the eSata connector and can be used on any modern PC via USB (which works fine BTW).
As you can guess, I am not happy, and this will probably get returned for a refund whether the problem is with my mobo or not. The mobo I am using it on is the Gigabyte GA-M61PM-S2, and I bought it to be used with a system that I havent yet built based on a slighty updated chipset, the GA-M68SM-S2, I can also try it on an Asus A8R-MVP.
In general terms this product was a no-brainer, it had everything going for it with no downside, but in reality lots of people have had problems, myself included.
I will add more info when I have tried it on the other mobo's.
EDIT (1):------------------------------------------------------------
I actually managed to get some data transfered via eSata to do a basic performance test, to answer your questions about how I managed this - I did nothing that I havent already tried before - it just worked this time for no apparent reason.
I have been trying to copy a folder with 4x 346MB files, and a sub-folder with 249 files and a total size of 50MB - the grand total being 253 files, 1.37 GB.
I measured the following times:
Internal HDD (Seagate 7200.9 160GB SATA) > HD501LJ via USB
55 seconds.
HD501LJ via USB > Internal HDD
56 seconds.
Internal HDD > HD501LJ via eSATA
43 seconds.
HD501LJ via eSATA > Internal HDD
44 seconds.
And now to compare the Internal HDD (Seagate 7200.9 160GB SATA) vs the HD501LJ hooked up via internal SATA.
Seagate 7200.9 160GB > Samsung HD501LJ
40 seconds.
Samsung HD501LJ > Seagate 7200.9 160GB
44 seconds.
Having only run each of these tests once I would say the when the eSATA does actually work its performance is very similar to that of the same drives hooked up via internal SATA and has a full 25% speed advantage (on my test files) than USB, which when copying large quantity's of data is very welcome indeed.
EDIT (2):------------------------------------------------------------
More specific information about the eSATA problems I have had, including the testing on my Asus A8R-MVP.
I have experienced several problems, the most frequent one has been whilst copying files the progress bar continues to move beyond the time in which the file should have been copied and the the progress bar stops. The remedy to this problem seems to be different on the 2 PC's I have tested the MX-1 on.
On the Gigabyte GA-M61PM-S2, the only solution seems to be to restart the machine, but this often didnt work, a hard (forced) shutdown seemed to be the only option.
On the rare occasions I could get the device detached from windows (safely remove hardware option) it wouldnt work when I turned it back on unless I attached it via USB. So the fault is obviously specific to the eSATA functionality.
On my Asus A8R-MVP I have had the same problem with file transfer, but the outcme was far sweeter - no reboot needed, I could just cancel the file copy and re-copy from where it failed, but again this is still an unusable system and far from reliable.
It stopped on the second file it was copying (No.2 of the 4 large files), I cancelled and restarted on file 2, I then cancelled again and restarted on file 3 which then copied all of the rest of the files, I went back to file 2 which then copied.
This as mentioned is useless as a backup device on either of the systems I have tried it on, and I dont expect any better with the third system either.!
A couple of things I should mention, Both of the system are using the drivers that either came on the original CD or have been downloaded from the manufacturers website, I have no idea whether they are new or not.
The Asus A8R-MVP system has not given me the option of "safe device removal", which it does with USB storage devices - it uses an ATI northbridge and a ULI southbridge.
Andy
My MX-1
A mixture of Good and Bad.
The good is that its pretty quiet, although its louder than the HD501LJ I have put in it, but not by much. My office is rather noisy, and to identify the actual noise is almost impossible.
The bad is that the eSata doesnt work. Other people have commented on this although I dont know what the outcome was for the other people. The reason for me getting the MX-1 caddy was because its quiet, has good cooling and is fast via the eSata connector and can be used on any modern PC via USB (which works fine BTW).
As you can guess, I am not happy, and this will probably get returned for a refund whether the problem is with my mobo or not. The mobo I am using it on is the Gigabyte GA-M61PM-S2, and I bought it to be used with a system that I havent yet built based on a slighty updated chipset, the GA-M68SM-S2, I can also try it on an Asus A8R-MVP.
In general terms this product was a no-brainer, it had everything going for it with no downside, but in reality lots of people have had problems, myself included.
I will add more info when I have tried it on the other mobo's.
EDIT (1):------------------------------------------------------------
I actually managed to get some data transfered via eSata to do a basic performance test, to answer your questions about how I managed this - I did nothing that I havent already tried before - it just worked this time for no apparent reason.
I have been trying to copy a folder with 4x 346MB files, and a sub-folder with 249 files and a total size of 50MB - the grand total being 253 files, 1.37 GB.
I measured the following times:
Internal HDD (Seagate 7200.9 160GB SATA) > HD501LJ via USB
55 seconds.
HD501LJ via USB > Internal HDD
56 seconds.
Internal HDD > HD501LJ via eSATA
43 seconds.
HD501LJ via eSATA > Internal HDD
44 seconds.
And now to compare the Internal HDD (Seagate 7200.9 160GB SATA) vs the HD501LJ hooked up via internal SATA.
Seagate 7200.9 160GB > Samsung HD501LJ
40 seconds.
Samsung HD501LJ > Seagate 7200.9 160GB
44 seconds.
Having only run each of these tests once I would say the when the eSATA does actually work its performance is very similar to that of the same drives hooked up via internal SATA and has a full 25% speed advantage (on my test files) than USB, which when copying large quantity's of data is very welcome indeed.
EDIT (2):------------------------------------------------------------
More specific information about the eSATA problems I have had, including the testing on my Asus A8R-MVP.
I have experienced several problems, the most frequent one has been whilst copying files the progress bar continues to move beyond the time in which the file should have been copied and the the progress bar stops. The remedy to this problem seems to be different on the 2 PC's I have tested the MX-1 on.
On the Gigabyte GA-M61PM-S2, the only solution seems to be to restart the machine, but this often didnt work, a hard (forced) shutdown seemed to be the only option.
On the rare occasions I could get the device detached from windows (safely remove hardware option) it wouldnt work when I turned it back on unless I attached it via USB. So the fault is obviously specific to the eSATA functionality.
On my Asus A8R-MVP I have had the same problem with file transfer, but the outcme was far sweeter - no reboot needed, I could just cancel the file copy and re-copy from where it failed, but again this is still an unusable system and far from reliable.
It stopped on the second file it was copying (No.2 of the 4 large files), I cancelled and restarted on file 2, I then cancelled again and restarted on file 3 which then copied all of the rest of the files, I went back to file 2 which then copied.
This as mentioned is useless as a backup device on either of the systems I have tried it on, and I dont expect any better with the third system either.!
A couple of things I should mention, Both of the system are using the drivers that either came on the original CD or have been downloaded from the manufacturers website, I have no idea whether they are new or not.
The Asus A8R-MVP system has not given me the option of "safe device removal", which it does with USB storage devices - it uses an ATI northbridge and a ULI southbridge.
Andy
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InspectorB
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:15 am
I think the nForce4 Ultra chipset is to blame for the problems presented in the original post.
Even with the latest drivers, there are SATA issues at least with my combination of MSI Neo4 FI (nForce 4 Ultra) and Samsung 501LJ (internal). The symptoms were slow hard drive performance and even corrupted sectors. I had to disable command queuing and downgrade to SATA1 speed in order to make the combination stable. By Googling around one can see that this is a common issue with the chipset.
I would imagine that putting eSata interface in between would not make things any easier.
Even with the latest drivers, there are SATA issues at least with my combination of MSI Neo4 FI (nForce 4 Ultra) and Samsung 501LJ (internal). The symptoms were slow hard drive performance and even corrupted sectors. I had to disable command queuing and downgrade to SATA1 speed in order to make the combination stable. By Googling around one can see that this is a common issue with the chipset.
I would imagine that putting eSata interface in between would not make things any easier.