OCZ Core series -- Affordable, high-performance SSDs

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frostedflakes
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OCZ Core series -- Affordable, high-performance SSDs

Post by frostedflakes » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:18 am

http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/f ... ii_2_5-ssd

Quite a few European stores have the 32GB version in stock for about $200 excluding tax. case-mod.com is the only US store I could find that carries them. If you want to order, check their reseller rating first. They appear to be an honest company, but can be slow to ship and unresponsive when it comes to customer service. Might be better to wait for a more reliable store like NewEgg to get them in stock.

32GB - $209
64GB - $297
128GB - $528

Still a bit too expensive for me, but nice to see prices going down. :)

Scoop
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Post by Scoop » Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:08 am

I would like too see just how high-performance they really are. Even the non-affordable aren't high-performance enough so I'm a bit sceptical about it. The price seems nice though if in fact they would beat mechanical drives in performance across the board.

frostedflakes
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Post by frostedflakes » Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:24 am

Well I guess it depends on your definition of "high-performance." Check out the reviews of the Mtron drives with 120/100MBps read/write, for most tasks, they far outperform traditional consumer hard drives. Performance should be comparable to the new OCZ drives.

http://www.nextlevelhardware.com/storage/battleship/

It would be interesting to see how a single SSD compares to the new VelociRaptor, though -- I suspect it would reduce the performance gap a good deal, although the SSD will probably still come out ahead.

Moogles
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Post by Moogles » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:42 am

These are MLC (multi level cell) drives, and not SLC (single level cells, like the Mtron/Memoright/etc) which may hurt their longevity. I'd be very interested in finding out what OCZ (or more accurately, Samsung) has done to make these drives more reliable than previous SSDs based on MLC, as they've experienced a VERY HIGH failure rate. On OCZ's website there's even a warning that defragmenting the drive could hurt its life expectancy.

The write speeds they've managed to squeeze out of MLC nand flash are very impressive, and the prices are excellent compared to Mtron/Memoright's SLC offerings.

Very interesting development. :D

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Post by frostedflakes » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:10 am

Durability is definitely something to keep in mind, IIRC high-end MLC is about 10x less durable than SLC. Mtron claims >140 years endurance for their SLC drives at 50GB write per day, so assuming 10x less endurance, that's still 14 years for an MLC drive. Not great, but not bad either. For general PC use, they should be fine.

Looks like Mtron claims >28 year endurance @ 50GB/day for their MSD 1000 MLC product. All of Mtron's durability numbers are for sequential writes, though -- random writing will probably wear the cells down much quicker.

OCZ offers a 2-year warranty as well. As long as they don't crap out at 2.5 years or something like that, I'd be happy. :P

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Post by Master One » Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:37 am

But still, it is not recommended to use a MLC SDD for OS installation, and the major problem with MLC is, that if worn out, you can not even read the content any more, whereas with SLC reading is still possible, only writing does not work any more.

I'd say, don't bother with MLC if you seriously want to use SSDs, SLC is the way to go.

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Post by frostedflakes » Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:22 am

I could understand the hesitation for mission-critical applications, but it seems like MLC should be reliable enough for your average computer user.

For me it'd probably be fine, once they get cheap enough I'd like to pick up a 32GB or 64GB drive for OS/apps, then use my 160GB for music, media, and other files. I wouldn't keep anything that vital on the SSD, and I planned to set it up to ghost the SSD partition to my mechanical disk, so nothing would be lost even if it did die.

MLC may not be as good as SLC, but as long as it's good enough I wouldn't hesitate to pick one of these drives up. >5 years durability would work for me.

EDIT: Although the new SuperTalent drives seem to have a reliability problem, so might want to be a bit cautious... maybe they got a bad batch of flash chips, or use a really crappy controller or something. Even MLC drives should not die that fast.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductRe ... 6820609302

EDIT2: Check this out, I don't know how I hadn't heard of it before. Can apparently significantly increase the performance and reliability of both SLC and MLC NAND. Why isn't this already integrated on the controller level in flash drives?

There's a demo driver available if anybody has a flash drive and wants to try it out. Unfortunately the licenses are pricey, hopefully they plan to introduce cheaper/free licenses for home use. Or does anybody know of free software that performs a similar function?

http://openqm.us/zx1257274821446977496/home/index.htm

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Post by dhanson865 » Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:06 pm

I'll paste what I wrote about these from another thread
dhanson865 wrote:
Core series SSD drives are available in capacities of 32GB, 64GB, and 128GB and deliver incredible 120-143Mbs/ 80-93Mbs read/write speeds and seek times of less than 0.35ms, making the Core series up to 10x as fast on a seek-time basis and up to 40% faster on a R/W basis that the best performing 2.5" HDDs on the market, all while consuming 50% less power. MSRPs at time of launch are USD $169, $259 and $479 for 32GB, 64GB and 128GB models respectively.
OCZ is looking to trump Super Talent push down-market with faster SSDs at even lower price points. The company today announced its new Core Series 2.5" SSDs which are the most affordable, large-capacity SSDs that we've seen to date. The 32GB, 64GB, and 128GB models are priced at $169, $259, and $479 respectively -- the drives also feature a two-year warranty.

And unlike the Super Talent MX SSDs, these new Core series doesn't give up much in terms of speed to its more expensive rivals. OCZ is projecting read speeds of 120 to 143 MB/sec and write speeds of 80 to 93 MB/sec. All Core Series SSDs feature a mean time before failure (MTBF) of 1.5 million hours.
http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/f ... ii_2_5-ssd
Core series SSD drives are available in capacities of 32GB, 64GB, and 128GB and deliver incredible 120-143 MB/s 80-93 MB/s read/write speeds and seek times of less than 0.35ms, making the Core series up to 10x as fast on a seek-time basis and up to 40% faster on a R/W basis that the best performing 2.5â€

Edwood
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Post by Edwood » Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:10 pm

Backed by a paltry 2 year warranty. I'll be staying away from these.

Unless you're using it in an offroad vehicle, standard spinning platters are still more reliable for long term use. Well, I guess SSD's haven't really been around long enough to prove themselves.

-Ed

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Post by nutball » Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:19 pm

Yes I have to say that these SSDs do look like an avoid to me. MLC, first into a new price sector, from a company more used to selling stuffs to the X-crowd. I'll wait for Memoright to get real with their pricing I think :)

Turas
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Post by Turas » Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:49 am

Is it the 13th yet? I am hoping to order 6 or 8 of these and raid them together.

dhanson865
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Post by dhanson865 » Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:55 pm

Edwood wrote:Backed by a paltry 2 year warranty. I'll be staying away from these.
2 years warranty on this isn't a whole story.

Take LCDs, is 3 dead pixels no closer than 15mm to each other a warranty item for RMA or not?

Will they take an SSD back when enough sectors are bad that the drive has dropped in size by x%? What percentage of shrinkage is too much?

Take cable company bandwidth limits, Unlimted service may get you dumped with no internet access if they think you used it "abnormally"

If my SSD dies because I run I/O 24/7 for 3 months straight will they look at some SMART data register and say it was abnormal usage or will they replace it no questions asked?

Also will they have a <5% out of the box failure rate (about the failure rate for traditional hard drives once shipped through the normal distribution methods).

Assuming at the end of the first month the failure rate is equal to or less than traditional hard drives a 2 Years no questions asked warranty is plenty long enough for me. 2 Years with lots of weaselly outs wouldn't make me a happy camper. More than 5% failure rate would cause lots of complaints as well.

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Post by frostedflakes » Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:36 pm

OCZ is a pretty good company, I doubt they'd try to weasel out of a warranty. If the SuperTalent 30GB drives are any indication, though, many of these drives will fail long before two years, so who knows.

dhanson865
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Post by dhanson865 » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:00 am

yeah, we need a consumer reports type experiment. Someone with enough money but no connection to the industry buy 3 of these from a retail source.

Drive 1: Dump thousands of small files on it, delete half of them, dump 1 multigigibyte file on there, copy and rename that large file until the drive is about 75% full, defrag the drive, delete all the files, repeat (script it up so it happens automatically)

Drive 2: Use as the boot drive on a Windows XP system that is used for daily web browsing or gaming by a user that will spend 8-16 hours per day using it. No attempt to stress the drive, just normal use

Drive 3: make backups from drive 2 once a month in case drive 2 dies.

Log the usable size of drive 1 and 2 at the same time you do the backup of drive 2. Check SMART data if possible as well.

Continue until any one of the 3 drives dies. Preferably continue until drive 1 dies.

Submit the failed drive for warranty replacement and document how much hassle you have to go through to do so. What price you pay for shipping both ways.

Write article with summary and/or conclusion depending on what the data shows.
Last edited by dhanson865 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

dhanson865
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Post by dhanson865 » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:09 am

fwiw it looks like they will be available next week Prices look to be about:

OCZSSD2-1C32G $215
OCZSSD2-1C64G $275
OCZSSD2-1C128G $500

The difference between 32GB and 64GB won't make it any more convenient for me (though if the drive shrinks in usable space noticeably without failing as a whole it might buy longevity to get the bigger drive even if you only have 8GB of files on it)

If longevity/shrinkage isn't an issue I'd just buy the 32G and save the $50 or so. It'd sure be nice to know for sure though...

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Post by MoJo » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:09 pm

It would be handy if there were some way to record all the reads and writes over a session in Windows and replay them, so that a card could be artificially aged to determine realistic lifespan.

I suppose a simpler alternative would be to just record the average number and size of read/writes in a Windows session and then write a program to randomly generate those patterns.

On the other hand, once SSD gets cheap enough I probably wouldn't care.

Jasper
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Post by Jasper » Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:15 am

MoJo wrote:It would be handy if there were some way to record all the reads and writes over a session in Windows and replay them, so that a card could be artificially aged to determine realistic lifespan.

I suppose a simpler alternative would be to just record the average number and size of read/writes in a Windows session and then write a program to randomly generate those patterns.

On the other hand, once SSD gets cheap enough I probably wouldn't care.
Well, a fair few benchmarks work by recording just such 'traces' and replaying them.

See for example http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/storag ... html#sect0 with just that epxlanation.

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Post by Beyonder » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:36 pm

frostedflakes wrote: It would be interesting to see how a single SSD compares to the new VelociRaptor, though -- I suspect it would reduce the performance gap a good deal, although the SSD will probably still come out ahead.
If these new SSD have comparable performance to MTRON drives, the velociraptor is soundly bested:

MTRON 3035 v. VelociRaptor
MTRON 7035 v. VelociRaptor
All three drives.

Simply no contest. If the OCZ drives are competitively priced (say, around $300), then the real question is whether or not 32/64/128 GB is good enough.

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Post by Jasper » Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:19 am

Can I ask where you found that these are MLC products rather than SLC? OCZ itself doesn't specify, and their earlier product, with similar but slightly less performance, was pronounced to be SLC by the review sites.

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Post by andyb » Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:41 am

They certainly are MUCH cheaper than their competitors drives.

The 64GB can be bought in the UK for £175 inc VAT (pre Order), and the 128GB for £290.

http://www.ebuyer.com/search/?intStoreI ... atUID=2309


Andy

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Post by Beyonder » Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:28 am

andyb wrote: The 64GB can be bought in the UK for £175 inc VAT (pre Order), and the 128GB for £290.
That's $350 for the 64 GB drive. It's almost $600 for the 128 GB drive. :lol:

It is "cheaper," but I don't know that I'd consider it competitive to the new raptor. Maybe they'll have pricing more in-line with where the U.S. dollar stands, but personally I wouldn't bite on anything over $300--it's just not worth it.

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Post by andyb » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:14 am

I wouldnt uy one of these even at their new "lower" prices, as they are still way over what I would be prepared to pay, but this is really good progress. In 12 months time from now, I expect to be able to buy a faster 256GB drive for £150, and a 128GB drive for £85 - That I would buy.

I dont want to spend more than £100 on any drive (ideally). That figure puts me in the realm of a nice fast 1TB Samsung (hypothetically, as I already have one), a 150GB WD Velociraptor (if they ever arrive at half the cost of the current 300GB model), or a 32GB fast SSD.

What would I buy right now - the 1TB Samsung is the answer, I get a shitload of storage, and its pretty damned quick. If I had £200 to spend, I would buy 1 Samsung, and keep the other £100 until the 64GB fast SSD's are down to that value. For my usage (games) 64GB is really the minimum I could deal with, and I would love to have the performance, but as I am tight fisted (and watching the SSD prices tumble) I am not going to buy one yet. Ideally I would want 128GB or more, simply because a killer game might come out that is massive (Conan is something like 11GB).

The loser here is WD, as the price of SSD's is dropping, whilst their performance and capacity are increasing SSD's first kill is going to be the performance sector (regardless of their low power consumption). The people who want uber performance (gamers, servers, workstations) also have cash to spend, which is ideal as SSD's cost more per GB than anything else - but they also have more performance than anything else, thats their selling point.

The second market sector that SSD's will fill will be heavy duty laptop users, who really want/need the extra performance, and/or want to save some precious battery power - also SSD's can be beaten up without data loss, which appeals to many people.

Us silence enthusiasts come in third place (maybe second), as obviously SSD's are totally silent, and very very cool. We actually fill all market sectors in one go, as people who want silence also want performance, low power usage etc, but we are also a smallish market - but generally have cash and will spend it (not as much as gamers).

I am really looking forward to getting my first SSD, but I am going to be left waiting for some time until there is a product that meets all of my requirements outlined above.


Andy

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Post by frostedflakes » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:29 am

Jasper wrote:Can I ask where you found that these are MLC products rather than SLC? OCZ itself doesn't specify, and their earlier product, with similar but slightly less performance, was pronounced to be SLC by the review sites.
It has been confirmed that they are MLC.

http://blog.laptopmag.com/ocz-super-aff ... each-256mb

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Post by dhanson865 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:26 am

*Preorder, ETA: 08/04/08 and $40 Mail-In Rebate*

$40 End-User Mail-In Rebate: OCZ is now presenting a mail-In rebate for 2.5in 32GB SSD OCZSSD2-1C32G. Promotion begins 07/17/08 and ends on 07/31/08. This promotion cannot be combined with any other promotion. Claim your rebate through the rebate form and follow mailing instructions. Note, incomplete forms will be denied as well as forms mailed too late. Manufacturer is not responsible for lost or misdirected mail. The promotion is not retroactive.


Gotta love a rebate that ends before the product is available for retail sale.

Rebate form covers
$100 OCZSSD2-1S64G UPC: 842024007197
$40.00 OCZSSD2-1S32G UPC: 842024007180
$40.00 OCZSSD2-1C32G UPC: 842024009269
$40.00 OCZSSD2-1C64G UPC: 842024009276
$40.00 OCZSSD2-1C128G UPC: 842024009283

Turas
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Post by Turas » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:49 am

The drives are already available and in stock at newegg, directron and tigerdirect. There is one review of it out from just an individual user. Not a real review site or anything.

I just ordered one today also.

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Post by didi » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:48 am

dhanson865 wrote:*Preorder, ETA: 08/04/08 and $40 Mail-In Rebate*

$40 End-User Mail-In Rebate: OCZ is now presenting a mail-In rebate for 2.5in 32GB SSD OCZSSD2-1C32G. Promotion begins 07/17/08 and ends on 07/31/08. This promotion cannot be combined with any other promotion. Claim your rebate through the rebate form and follow mailing instructions. Note, incomplete forms will be denied as well as forms mailed too late. Manufacturer is not responsible for lost or misdirected mail. The promotion is not retroactive.


Gotta love a rebate that ends before the product is available for retail sale.

Rebate form covers
$100 OCZSSD2-1S64G UPC: 842024007197
$40.00 OCZSSD2-1S32G UPC: 842024007180
$40.00 OCZSSD2-1C32G UPC: 842024009269
$40.00 OCZSSD2-1C64G UPC: 842024009276
$40.00 OCZSSD2-1C128G UPC: 842024009283
do you have a source for that ?

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Post by hmsrolst » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:08 am

FYI, on the OCZ OCZSSD2-1S32G, the rebate was for $50 from 7/1-7/15, so next month it might be a bigger one again (or go away).

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Post by ryboto » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:00 am

if that 128gb drive was only $300, it would be mine. I can wait though.

Turas
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Post by Turas » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:00 pm

Oooops, I forgot the link of the review in my previous post.

http://www.bluefi.co.uk/

Schlotkins
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Post by Schlotkins » Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:54 am

Those write numbers are somewhat scary...

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