7000AlCU or SP97? With 5v fan.

DG · Post by DG » Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:08 pm

Wich cools better: Zalman 700AlCu (with panaflo M1A @ 5v) or SP97 (with same fan @ 5v)?
It's a Barton 2500+, btw.

burcakb · Post by **burcakb** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:05 am

Do you mean to mod the Zalman? that's nontrivial. I don't think anyone has any idea of a Zalman modified for a specific fan.

SebRad · Post by **SebRad** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:17 am

Hi, you might like to check out SPCR's review that compares the two. In particular look at the aside on the last page about the Zalman at 4V. My experience of 7000AlCu on my Barton 2500+ (overclocked to 2.2GHz) is that it holds it about 25-30Â°C over ambient at ~1200rpm. At this speed it is very quiet, I get such a low speed using two fanmates in series.
The article suggests to me that the Zalman provides better cooling/noise performance.
Seb

DG · Post by DG » Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:53 am

I've red the review, but they've used a 80 l1a panaflo.
With a Panaflo M1a, 92 mm, it could be another story...

ghowarth · Post by **ghowarth** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:21 pm

in some review on here regarding the SP97, the reviewer mentions there is no difference in temperature whether a 80mm or 92mm fan is used on the heatsink. Also, the 92mm is a bit more noisy. While both are good heatsinks, I would go for the Zalman.

cmcquistion · Post by **cmcquistion** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:26 pm

I would go with the Zalman. If quiet is your goal, I think it will outperform any thermalright heatsink. It will cool almost any chip at 3 or 4 volts and is nearly inaudible at those speeds.

sthayashi · Post by **sthayashi** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:37 pm

For a Barton at stock speed, either heatsink will be more than enough. It's been my understanding from Ed Ng's posts that the SP-97 will outperform the Zalman. I imagine this will be especially true with an M1A @ 5V, which is very quiet.

YMMV though.

burcakb · Post by **burcakb** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:22 am

I've used both on the same Barton chip. It all really boils down to what your case airflow is like. If you have good airflow, the SP97 is excellent, probably more quiet with an undervolted Panaflo. If your airflow isn't top notch, the Zalman will probably come out ahead. Especially on a Barton, you can undervolt the CPU to 1.5V, undervolt the Zalman to 3.3V (720 rpms) and get a quietness level that you'll only get with a 80mm undervolted L1A panaflo.

Personally I'd prefer the Zalman over Thermalright 90% of the time. The only time Thermalright makes any more sense is if you've got a very hot running CPU and a good airflow case and you want to put a low noise fan.

Edward Ng · Post by **Edward Ng** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:20 am

You guys may want to see my Hyper 6 review before deciding that the difference in performance between an 80mm and 92mm fan on the SP-97 is trivial; I have temperatures for the SP-94, SP-97's P4 brother, in the Hyper 6 review, with both, 80mm L1A and 92mm L1A, and the 92mm L1A completely clobbers the 80mm L1A. We're talking low voltage, here; as you drop your voltage and fan speed, the 92mm advantage becomes more obvious over 80mm.

burcakb is right about flow; I've seen that Thermalrights are more heavily affected by overall case airflow; also, the CNPS7000's performance does not drop as much when you reduce the fan's speed; the SP-97's performance is much more directly related to fan speed.

I also agree with sthayashi's recommendation of using an M1x; I use a 92mm M1B on my SP-97 and it is more than enough to cool my Barton, which is running at 2556MHz at 2.093volts on my AN7; it's quiet enough that with headphones on (this mad overclock is on my gaming rig), and with a game going, there's nothing particularly obtrusive about the machine's noise level or signature.

In other words; CNPS7000A-(Al)Cu for extreme silence/low flow/stock speed & voltage operation (as well as to save yourself some money), but you may need to perform a fan mod. SP-97 for higher air flows and higher heat/overclocking (SP-97 has heatpipes that require a bit of heat to activate). Keep in mind that SP-97 will take any 80 or 92mm fan that you throw at it, either 25mm or 38mm in thickness, with ease.

Say, DG, what motherboard and case will you be utilizing? In the end, it might just be a matter of fitment, more than anything else, that is the deciding factor. I know for ABIT's AN7, the SP-97 will mount, but you will have to have a case that the standoffs are removeable, as the backplate will interfere with one of the standoffs underneath the AN7. For NF7-S 2.0, you will need to break out your rotary tool to cut off part of the CNPS7000A's clip in order to clear a row of capacitors that's excessively close to the CPU socket; this is likely a problem for AN7 as well, but I've never bothered to try it, since I've SP-97 in there already.

Keep posting!

-Ed

DG · Post by DG » Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:14 am

I already have a working pc: Epox 8rda+, Barton 2500+ (no ock), Zalman 7000AlCu (with clip cut out), all in an Antec 3700AMB with great airflow (grills cut out and cablegami). All fans are conected to a Sunbeam Rheobus (0v-12v).

The problem is, where i live, in the summer time, in my room are 29C-30C and in my case, 35C (from the mobo temp. sensor). I keep my Zalman 7000 fan, at 7v and i get a 47C CPU temperature, in idle. In load, i get 52C. I CANT keep the cpu fan at 3-5v because the temp raises to 53-54 in idle!!!!! And this is too much for my personal comfort. I like to keep my temperatures below 50.

So i was thinking that a SP97 would do a better job in my case...

Edward Ng · Post by **Edward Ng** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:32 am

DG, have you removed the fan from the stock northbridge cooler, or swapped the stock cooler entirely for something else? I'm concerned about how close the socket is to the chipset; SP-97 will have a difficult time fitting in that arrangement with the stock northbridge HSF unit; it's extremely similar to the arrangement on AN7.

I honestly am not sure how much benefit you'd stand to gain from switching from a 7volt CNPS7000A to an SP-97 unless you run it with an M1x at moderate voltage, and at that point, it would only be good if you get a good fan sample, which is, for 92mm M1x, likely an 80% chance.

-Ed

DG · Post by DG » Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:49 am

The northbridge cooler hasn't got a fan. It's a low profile (~1.5 cm) pasive heatsink.

I also could use a 92mm nexus fan, at 12v. But i don't know if 27CFM would do the job...

Edward Ng · Post by **Edward Ng** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:10 am

Well, the primary advantage of SP-97 is fan flexibility; it's very, very easy to swap fans until you have a satisfactory solution.

sthayashi · Post by **sthayashi** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:26 am

DG, this is the hottest part of the summer (if you're in the Northern Hemisphere). Don't worry if your temps get to the 50s under load. Worry when they get to the 60s.

Edward Ng · Post by **Edward Ng** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:32 am

If you plan to run stock speed, I would concur.

The overclocker side of me doesn't like seeing temps that high at stock speed only because it means I won't be able to take it much higher.

-Ed

EDIT: Btw, DG; that's interesting to hear it has a low profile, passive northbridge cooler. When I checked NewEgg's images of the 8RDA+, it showed an active cooler. They must've changed it up at some point.

burcakb · Post by **burcakb** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:28 pm

Ed, thats the 8RDA3+ you're looking at. the 8RDA+ has and always had (through 3 revisions) passive NB cooling.

DG, I have VERY similar setups, two actually, so I'll list what I have here and you can form your own conclusions. I'd say there's something wrong with your setup.

Rig1 (Thor): DFI Lanparty Ultra B. Barton CPU running 175x11 = 1925 Mhz (5% overclock), Zalman 7000A-Cu running with Fanmate at low + inline resistor (voltage around 3V). Case is Sonata with bezel mod (slight, not everything is opened up), the filter is in place, I've got two hot Seagate 7200.7's suspended in the cage with a Vantec Stealth 120mm running at startup voltage (about 4V and this is just to keep the hdds cool otherwise they easily hit 50C). CPU is undervolted to 1.5V Everything stable and running folding 24/7. It's summer here too and ambient easily reaches 31C. At this point the max CPU temp I saw was 58C. This is with the Zalman at 3V - absolutely inaudiable. When I've cleaned up my desktop (the real one), I'll cut out the drive caging for better airflow and change the Vantec to a Nexus. Rear fan is an acoustifan running 1100 rpm. PSU is stock sonata PSU modded with an low flow acoustifan.

Rig2 (Wotan): Epox 8RDA+ rev2.2. CPU is Palomino 2000+ running at 166x10.5 (5% overclock). That's a hot CPU, around 73W, MUCH higher than a Barton (the above barton at 1.5V is about 58W). On it is a SP97 with a Nexus at 12V. Case is a modded AOpen H600 (slightly higher than Sonata) with two 80mm exhausts (Noiseblocker S2's at 5V), PSU is a Globe 80M modified 300W fortron PSU. No intake fans. Same room, same ambient (cases are side by side). CPU is 56-58C folding 24/7.

Considering the Sonata has worse airflow than the AMB, I'd say there's something wrong with your setup. Did you undervolt the Barton? As you can see it can easily do 5% o/c at 1.5V stable. Makes a huge difference in temps. Also note that Epox regularly delivers higher voltages to fans, cpus, etc (evidenced on many many epoxes) than rated so check MBM, you might be able to lower even more to get 1.5V.

Edit: corrected mobo model no

burcakb · Post by **burcakb** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:30 pm

And this is with my system under dust attack. Just yesterday I noticed that the VGA Silencer on Thor is heavily clogged with dust. (locks up games) The Zalman looked fine from the top but you never know. The filter is probably all filled up already. Time for the vacuum cleaner.

Edward Ng · Post by **Edward Ng** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:37 pm

Okay; I'm confused. Oh well.

DG · Post by DG » Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:52 pm

I have the 1.1 rev, was one of the first nforce 2 to hit the market...Look here, at the first picture: http://www.digital-daily.com/motherboar ... ndex08.htm

burcakb, i don't know, as i typed this post, i turned the all the way, the cpu fan, to 3v-4v and the temp raised at 55C. Not good

. But i don't see what could be wrong with my system. I clean the dust on a regular base, good airflow, etc. The difference could be that the temp sensor on my mobo is a little bit more acurate...don't know.

Edward Ng · Post by **Edward Ng** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:58 pm

Well that explains that; the only image I've seen 'til now are the ones on this page.

DG · Post by DG » Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:17 pm

Wow, that's a BIG cooler!

I just remembered one thing i forgot to mention: I have a Zalman ZM80C on a TI4200, without a side fan. Maybe this is the cause...

burcakb · Post by **burcakb** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:14 pm

Well the 8RDA3+ has SATA, dual LANs and CMedia audio instead of Soundstorm as different from the 8RDA+ and therefore more expensive. Not really worth the money if you don't use SATA.

DG, did you check your voltages? Epox, as I said earlier, supplies excess voltage on all its boards. Chances are, your Barton is getting 1.7V or more instead of 1.65V and it can certainly run stable at 1.5V. The difference in temps is huge, please go ahead and do it.

It's the only reason I can think of such temps other than improper application of thermal grease. Oh btw, you did use arctic silver right? I've seen many other material get dried up and powdery over time with degradation in cooling performance.

If everything is peachy and you still get such temps, then I'd say put up with it for the summer, 55C is liveable. If that results in your PC locking up, I'd first look for the culprit in the NB cooler. I've seen cases where it wasn't factory mounted properly - although rarely.

DG · Post by DG » Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:33 pm

I've checked the voltage, and it's 1.65v. I have Arctic Alumina there, 3 months old... 55C maybe it's liveable, but it's in Idle mode. In load i didn't even tried, i guess it will reach 60C or more. With the fan at 3-4v, offcourse...
Anyway, in my case, there are 2 major heat producing things: the passive Zalman vga heatsink and the PSU, Antec TP430W (wich is also very warm, almost hot). Maybe the only 120 fan, Evercool alu, at 5v, can't get out the heat from the case very well.... In the near future i want to buy a 9800pro with a vga Silencer (to get the video card heat out of the case) and another PSU...but until then..

DG · Post by DG » Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:58 pm

A bit offtopic, but anyone knows when the CNPS7700 Zalmans will be out?